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01Malibu

Isn't Pontiac-GMC-Buick ONE BRAND?

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Why does the media and DC politicians keeping harping on the need for GM to reduce brands? Isn't Pontiac-Buick-GMC one brand? Maybe reduce overlap in these brands. But please enough about too many brands. GM's problems are far deeper than the number of dealerships and brands.

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Why does the media and DC politicians keeping harping on the need for GM to reduce brands? Isn't Pontiac-Buick-GMC one brand? Maybe reduce overlap in these brands. But please enough about too many brands. GM's problems are far deeper than the number of dealerships and brands.

The way I understand it, PBG is 1 division, 1 dealer structure, 3 brands.

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The term GM uses is 'Sales Channel" but yes, BPG is one entity.

And yes, that has gone unrecognized.

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The term GM uses is 'Sales Channel" but yes, BPG is one entity.

And yes, that has gone unrecognized.

Yes, 1 entity (division, sales channel, whatever the term du joir is), 3 brands. It's like Lincoln-Mercury--one division, 2 brands.

Even though there is one division, there are still 3 brands, which is what people see... it's not a BPG Sierra, BPG G8, BPG Enclave, after all...

Edited by moltar
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And being such isn't the baggage popular opinion makes it out to be.

Sadly though, GM has done an abysmal job of communicating this reality.

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And being such isn't the baggage popular opinion makes it out to be.

Sadly though, GM has done an abysmal job of communicating this reality.

To the layperson, does it make any difference? It's still 3 distinct brands... just like Lincoln-Mercury---one division, 2 brands. The combining of multiple brands into one division might have cost savings on many levels, but it's pretty invisible to the consumer. The distinction is one of those 'inside baseball' things...

Edited by moltar
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Thus my criticism of GM's PR.

I still don't see how it matters...they are still 3 distinct brands, even if they are in 1 division/sales channel. GMC, Buick and Pontiac all have distinct models and identities.

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I still don't see how it matters...they are still 3 distinct brands, even if they are in 1 division/sales channel. GMC, Buick and Pontiac all have distinct models and identities.

What matters is why GM did this consolidation, and the benefits of doing so. They have been accused of not taking action to deal with brands, dealers, and costs. BPG addresses all of these concerns, and yet the public still believes that each part is a stand-alone division with a full line.

The truth is buried under a pile of perceptual error.

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Well, they could have done a bit better in their consolidation efforts. There is no need for two, possibly three midsized FWD sedans (if the Regal does in fact come here) in the same showroom. Same goes for the need for two Deltas (G5 and Skylark/Excelle) and the two Lambdas.

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Well, they could have done a bit better in their consolidation efforts. There is no need for two, possibly three midsized FWD sedans (if the Regal does in fact come here) in the same showroom. Same goes for the need for two Deltas (G5 and Skylark/Excelle) and the two Lambdas.

No argument there, Z.

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What matters is why GM did this consolidation, and the benefits of doing so. They have been accused of not taking action to deal with brands, dealers, and costs. BPG addresses all of these concerns, and yet the public still believes that each part is a stand-alone division with a full line.

The truth is buried under a pile of perceptual error.

True...but I doubt if the general public is capable of distinguishing between a 'brand' and a 'division'.

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B/P/GMC is one division...

However, the media fails to recognize that because they want to kill as much of GM as possible. (seriously... why else wouldn't they acknowledge the words SPOKEN from the mouth of Mark LaNeve?)

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While I do agree somewhat with the statements about the media's role in attempting to shrink GM and eliminate brands, I think GM has also played a major role in continuing the prevailing misconception about Buick, Pontiac, and GMC being separate brands. The brands were combined into one sales channel, but GM has still failed to define the mission of each brand with coherent product strategies or establish the overall purpose of the Buick-Pontiac-GMC sales channel in general. There is overlap within the sales channel as well as with Chevrolet. Until GM eliminates those overlap issues, I fear that many people will still fail to see Buick-Pontiac-GMC as one unified sales channel with a distinct purpose. I believe that the Buick-Pontiac-GMC sales channel has the potential to be relevant and play a vital role in the market and in GM's brand hierarchy, but GM needs to give the sales channel the goods to reinforce that potential.

Edited by cire
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True...but I doubt if the general public is capable of distinguishing between a 'brand' and a 'division'.

But the issue isn't what the general public thinks, it's whether it saves money or not. If it operates as one, but appears to the public as 3, isn't that a good thing? Cost savings of being one, but can still sell to 3 different markets.

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But the issue isn't what the general public thinks, it's whether it saves money or not. If it operates as one, but appears to the public as 3, isn't that a good thing? Cost savings of being one, but can still sell to 3 different markets.

Agreed, I think it's a good thing to have a unified channel, as long as each brand has it's own identity and products. If GM can trim down to 3 divisions/sales channels (Chevy, BPG, Cadillac) and 5 distinct brands (Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, and GMC (try and focus it to get rid of the redundancy), I think that could be a good model going forward...

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The consensus reached in this thread is the blueprint needed for moving forward.

Why is it that we can do this in a few posts while GM, the government, and the media still flail about aimlessly?

Someone needs to stand up and lead.

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Agreed, I think it's a good thing to have a unified channel, as long as each brand has it's own identity and products. If GM can trim down to 3 divisions/sales channels (Chevy, BPG, Cadillac) and 5 distinct brands (Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, and GMC (try and focus it to get rid of the redundancy), I think that could be a good model going forward...

As long as GM can use their brands correctly, the only ones that need to go are Saturn, Saab and Hummer.

My idea would be Chevy on one side, BPG on the other, and Cadillac as it's own. Pontiac would off the sportier, more expensive versions for the small to midsize cars, and Buick would be softer, more luxurious, midsize to fullsize cars. GMC would get trucks that are more expensive than the Chevy trucks. Pontiac would get the Corsa, Astra, and and Alpha, while Buick would get Epsilon II and the platform that will be above Alpha, maybe a stripped down Sigma?

Edited by CaddyXLR-V
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Our local PBG dealer has been around longer than I have and is quite successful. So much so that the owners gained enough capital to start a Mazda dealership next door. Eventually, it was closed and reopened as a Toyota dealership that grew so fast the entire lot was given exclusively for trucks and used cars and they just finished a new facility beside it for the new cars and main building. All the while, PBG kept plugging along, unchanged.

I spoke with a sales rep the other day. The Chev/Cad/Hummer dealer in the next town 20 minutes from them is a dead stick. The sales rep at PBG does more in one month himself than they do altogether. They will likely be merged or moved to join or replace the PBG dealership... depending upon the overall outcome within GM.

PBG could not be better promoted out here, enjoying the majority of sales within the GM divisions. The local consumers the sales rep speaks with say they don't really prefer one over the other when it comes to the cars; however, they do prefer GMC over Chevy trucks.

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Our local PBG dealer has been around longer than I have and is quite successful. So much so that the owners gained enough capital to start a Mazda dealership next door. Eventually, it was closed and reopened as a Toyota dealership that grew so fast the entire lot was given exclusively for trucks and used cars and they just finished a new facility beside it for the new cars and main building. All the while, PBG kept plugging along, unchanged.

I spoke with a sales rep the other day. The Chev/Cad/Hummer dealer in the next town 20 minutes from them is a dead stick. The sales rep at PBG does more in one month himself than they do altogether. They will likely be merged or moved to join or replace the PBG dealership... depending upon the overall outcome within GM.

PBG could not be better promoted out here, enjoying the majority of sales within the GM divisions. The local consumers the sales rep speaks with say they don't really prefer one over the other when it comes to the cars; however, they do prefer GMC over Chevy trucks.

Really where you at? Chevrolet is big around where I am, two large dealers in towns less than 10 miles away! Pontiac's aren't nearly as big or well stocked at the dealer in town, but still very popular with country folks thus more stocked at small dealers in small towns. My small town B/C/P dealer has more G6's and Vibe's than the in town Pontiac dealer. Chevrolet's are popular with everyone even "well off" people in my area, they drive Suburban/Tahoe/Avalanche LT/LTZ's and then commonly have a loaded Benz or Audi to go along with 'em.

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At issue here RE "too many brands" is not how many nameplates you can name within GM, but to what degree they can make a case for themselves. Within B-P-G, I see very little overlap, even the Enclave / Acadia don't speak to the same demo overtly... and that's as it should be and not dissimilar with other brands. IE: I just saw a hyundai commercial - I did not realize they had 3 same-size small SUVs- I had thought at least 1 was replaced by one of the others, but they're all in the same showroom.

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proctor and gamble has like dawn dishwasher detergent, and tide laundry det. those are separate brands but sold in the same store. no one accuses P&G of too many brands.

GM'S PROBLEM IS NOT TOO MANY BRANDS IT IS TOO MANY DEALERS AND INEFFICIENT SALES PROCESS.

Edited by regfootball
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Really where you at? Chevrolet is big around where I am, two large dealers in towns less than 10 miles away! Pontiac's aren't nearly as big or well stocked at the dealer in town, but still very popular with country folks thus more stocked at small dealers in small towns. My small town B/C/P dealer has more G6's and Vibe's than the in town Pontiac dealer. Chevrolet's are popular with everyone even "well off" people in my area, they drive Suburban/Tahoe/Avalanche LT/LTZ's and then commonly have a loaded Benz or Audi to go along with 'em.

Actually, it's not so much were I'm at, but that the dealership is far more established, centralized and trusted. They have a larger service center and body shop. My area is the exact flip of yours in that the wealthier pull their fifth-wheelers with luxurious GMC trucks. Mostly seniors drive the Buicks and the families have more selection from the larger PBG lot than the Chevy/Cad. dealer. There's isn't as heavy a thought on the heritage and history with an American car company. About the only major influence for some may be whether they wish to buy a domestic vehicle over an import; however, even that appears balanced with the import consumers... at least based on what I see on the road.

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Actually, it's not so much were I'm at, but that the dealership is far more established, centralized and trusted. They have a larger service center and body shop. My area is the exact flip of yours in that the wealthier pull their fifth-wheelers with luxurious GMC trucks. Mostly seniors drive the Buicks and the families have more selection from the larger PBG lot than the Chevy/Cad. dealer. There's isn't as heavy a thought on the heritage and history with an American car company. About the only major influence for some may be whether they wish to buy a domestic vehicle over an import; however, even that appears balanced with the import consumers... at least based on what I see on the road.

Yeah know the well off folks around here buy way more loaded up Chevrolet's than GMC's. Honestly it is nearly a flip, are Pontiac's especially products like the G8 and Solstice popular with the well to do people in your area?

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... Pontiac's especially products like the G8 and Solstice popular with the well to do people in your area?

Oddly enough, I haven't seen one; however, that may change with the winter season behind us. Perhaps a few cars were stored for the winter. Still, no G8s anywhere.

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