Drew Dowdell

Debate: Hatchback or Wagon?

43 posts in this topic

Drew Dowdell - January 26, 2012 - CheersandGears.com

Yesterday on Facebook, Aaron Bragman a new friend I met at NAIAS, and I got into a friendly back and forth over whether the Audi A3 was a hatchback or a wagon. I insist that it was a wagon and Aaron insists it is a hatch. My original position is that the A3 is a wagon because of the third rear window. Aaron says no, it is an identical car to the Volkswagen GTI which couldn't be called anything but a hatch.

Now before I go on, I'm going to preempt some of the old timers here. For the sake of this argument, we are going to use body style definitions that apply to cars post.. oh... 1980 or so. That means a sedan is a 4-door and a coupe is a 2-door regardless of the existence of b-pillars or not. For the sake of sanity, we are going to leave out anything that would be considered a cross-over..... yes, I'm looking at you BMW.

Posted Image

2007 Volkswagen GTI - VW N.A.

Posted Image

2008 Audi A3 - Audi N.A.

Aaron further explains that the distinguishing factor is "...rear cargo room. It should be longer than it is tall. Which is not the case with the GTI or the A3."

While I begin to agree, I don't think that is the entire answer.

I started to doubt my "third window makes a wagon" criteria when I realized there were vehicles out there that were most definitely hatches yet still had a third window in the rear. The two examples that immediately come to mind are the Subaru Impreza and the Pontiac Vibe. That defeat in hand, I set out thinking how to define a hatchback opposed to a wagon.

Click here to view the article

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this time of mangled automotive terminology, your definition is as good as any.

For me, it's as easy as taking a glance.

The A3 is clearly a wagon, if an all but useless one.

But then there are things like a Malibu max, what exactly would you call that?

And we all know that the Dodge Magnum was a wagon, but Chrysler didn't call it one.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose I'd consider it more a 5dr hatch than a wagon..the 3rd window doesn't mean much--many 5dr hatchbacks have had a 3rd side window--see the '80s US Escort, Rover 3500, Sterling, etc. Sometimes a 5dr hatch has a steeper rake to the C-pillar, sometimes not. What makes the 5dr Golf a hatchback and the wagon version (badged a Jetta in the US) a wagon? Or the 1st gen Focus--it was available as a 5dr hatch and a wagon...with the Golf/Jetta and the Focus, the wagon clearly has more rear bodywork than the 5dr..longer cargo area, longer roof.

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come to think of it, "hatch" isn't much of a bodystyle classification to begin with - it's more like a feature of another bodystyle.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always gone by your latter definition, Drew, of a wagon being about the same length as a sedan of the same model and a hatchback being significantly shorter. At least for compacts. With European mid-size cars, the hatchback styles typically are the same length as sedan styles but have a sedan-like or fastback profile, so they remain very different from the wagons.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of these are hatchbacks:

Subaru Justy

Suburban

Nova SS

Plymouth Duster

International Scout Traveller

Yugo

3rd and 4th gen F-bodies

Vega coupe and wagon

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, I don't think there is a way to define it - automakers will call them whatever they think will sell better. I would venture to say there are 2 things that make something definitively a wagon though: cargo section longer than it is tall, or a 3rd row seat. Of course, either of those can come into question with "crossovers", but that comparison was thrown out in the first post.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if there was ever a poster child for such a discussion, the A3 is most definitely.

i would say the A3 is like 52% hatch.

if you look at a Focus or Astra wagon, there is so much more length behind the rear wheels than regular hatches. The A3 doesn't have too much overhang like the Focus or Astra, or Jetta wagon for that matter.

What I think is even as entertaining for discussion are those sedans that are blending into hatches...some the BMW and Audis, or cars like the Mazda6 and Opel Insignia hatches......

Malibu Maxx suffered in the market I feel because there was some confusion on the wagon vs. hatch bit....... the rear rake was not fast enough for a hatch and the rear did not hang over enough with an upright enough rear to be a wagon. If chevy had kept the short wheelbase on the Maxx and sloped the back glass more, we may have had a hatchback.....or citation, part duex..... or maybe even a five door cutlass salon....

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Magnum to me was one of the most interesting evolutions of wagon design by the way, and that rear hatch and cargo area to me was one of the most useful and clever designs ever. Too bad the Magnum was a Chrysler....lol.....

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one of the most awesome wagons ever......clearly of wagon proportions, overhang longer than tall, clearly a wagon

1G3BP8371NW301943A.jpg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Malibu Maxx suffered in the market I feel because there was some confusion on the wagon vs. hatch bit....... the rear rake was not fast enough for a hatch and the rear did not hang over enough with an upright enough rear to be a wagon. If chevy had kept the short wheelbase on the Maxx and sloped the back glass more, we may have had a hatchback.....or citation, part duex..... or maybe even a five door cutlass salon....

IMHO it suffered in the market because people didn't see themselves in the market for a midsize hatch/wagon. Most people in the market for versatility at that price were shopping CR-Vs and Equinoxes.

Also, it wasn't very versatile at all. The cargo space is shallower than the sedan mostly because you can't get taller items in due to the raking of the rear roofline. Also, pushing the wheels to the corners made the cargo area significantly more narrow and less usable. I mean it's got the biggest back seat of any car its size and I think my parents recognized it wasn't the most versatile car, but bought it based on how roomy it was.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Malibu Maxx suffered in the market because of the ugly face (a trait of the sedan as well) but as long as you didn't look at the front, the rest of the car was kind of bulldog attractive. The interior.... well, that was another story.

The Magnum was most certainly a wagon no matter what Dodge wants to call it. The 300C wagon was called an Estate in Europe. You don't get much more wagon than that without using the actual word.

Interestingly, both the Commonwealth of PA and Progressive Insurance list our CR-V as a "Honda CR-V Wagon" on the respective identification cards.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took crossovers out of the debate because of the pollution of the name by Honda and BMW lately.

But here is another one to ponder:

Ford Flex - Wagon

Scion xB - Hatchback

yet they have a very similar shape.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interestingly, both the Commonwealth of PA and Progressive Insurance list our CR-V as a "Honda CR-V Wagon" on the respective identification cards.

IIRC, in both the Colorado and Arizona registrations and on my State Farm insurance info my Grand Cherokee's bodystyle is listed as 'sta wag' or 'SW'. A typical 5dr CUV or SUV is basically a high riding tall wagon...

Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the genesis of this confusion can be traced to the 70s when some wagons lost the traditional tailgate for a liftgate or hatchback. Prior to that time wagons almost always had tailgates.

My Chevelle wagon is an example of this.

post-394-0-52826800-1327678252.jpg

post-394-0-03533900-1327678275.jpg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, if it has a liftgate, it is a hatchback, a tailgate is a wagon. :P

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't buy that one as the 73 & up GM mid size were wagons absolutely.

Drew I'm with you on the cargo area being longer than tall.

Suburban and Flex are wagons also :2cents: from someone who had more wagons than most people had cars in their first decade of driving.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, I agree. A wagon/estate has the same length as its sedan/saloon equivalent, whereas a hatchback would have a shorter rear overhang.

An A3 sedan without a longer rear overhang would look awfully truncated.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, I agree. A wagon/estate has the same length as its sedan/saloon equivalent, whereas a hatchback would have a shorter rear overhang.

An A3 sedan without a longer rear overhang would look awfully truncated.

well... it'd look like a Golf.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the Golf/Jetta wagon....so the A3's rear overhang is between that of the 5dr Golf and this...closer to the Golf, so I'd categorize it as a hatchback. Not that it really means anything..

A40A53DB23DC422BCC2EE9B452885.jpg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, I agree. A wagon/estate has the same length as its sedan/saloon equivalent, whereas a hatchback would have a shorter rear overhang.

An A3 sedan without a longer rear overhang would look awfully truncated.

well... it'd look like a Golf.

Huh?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, I agree. A wagon/estate has the same length as its sedan/saloon equivalent, whereas a hatchback would have a shorter rear overhang.

An A3 sedan without a longer rear overhang would look awfully truncated.

well... it'd look like a Golf.

Huh?

I think he meant 'hatchback' instead of 'sedan'.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drew Dowdell - January 26, 2012 - CheersandGears.com

Yesterday on Facebook, Aaron Bragman a new friend I met at NAIAS, and I got into a friendly back and forth over whether the Audi A3 was a hatchback or a wagon. I insist that it was a wagon and Aaron insists it is a hatch. My original position is that the A3 is a wagon because of the third rear window. Aaron says no, it is an identical car to the Volkswagen GTI which couldn't be called anything but a hatch.

Now before I go on, I'm going to preempt some of the old timers here. For the sake of this argument, we are going to use body style definitions that apply to cars post.. oh... 1980 or so. That means a sedan is a 4-door and a coupe is a 2-door regardless of the existence of b-pillars or not.

Interesting discussion, but I have to ask; if we're going with the 'loosey-goosey' modern marketing terms, what's the diff? ;)

I for one would prefer to drive a "wagon" than a "hatch".

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites