Cadillac News: Cadillac's Upcoming Flagship Has A Name: CT6

[Cmicasa the Great]

I wouldn't call the K900 an SS competitor... not at all.  It's a soft tuned suspension and the entire car is designed for comfort.  If anything, the K900 would be an excellent Buick Park Avenue if it had an exterior restyle. I also think the SS is a lot more of a solid vehicle than the K900.  I like the K900, but I would only ever lease one, not buy.  The SS would be a solid car for years.

No.. I wasn't implying that it was an SS direct competitor.. but more like a Holden Caprice/Buick PArk Ave. I used the SS as an example because it is the available ZETA example here in the States. When I was in Australia in late 2008, I drove a Caprice and thought how great of a starting point it would be for a Cadillac flagship. That was over 5 years ago tho, and it still would do as well as a K900, perhaps better. The upgrades to Zeta for the SS make it a helluva car, and I'm sorry that more people don't go and experience it. Chevy opted for the mature, buttoned up look of the SS instead of the hotrod look of the Charger, thus some of the reason for tipid sales. Well that and the no avail cheap models employing a V6 under the Charger's starting price of $27K MSRP

[smk4565]

I agree with this. Many will argue that CTS sales are down for various negative, but false reasons, one being the uptick in price. While that may have some validation due to the fact that Cadillac isn't targeting the tweener buyer anymore.. one still has to remember that not only does THIS CTS not have a coupe or a wagon to add to sales (the coupe accounted for almost 33%) it also has same price competition from the XTS, which is a vehicle that I see as ad hoc waiting for the CT6.. and then probably towards Black car sales, as nice as it is.

 

Poor product planning got Cadillac 2 sedans that are at the same price point.  If they did it so one could be a fleet queen to protect the CTS I can see the point.  Although one could argue you could have made the XTS a Buick Park Ave and done the black car sales through Buick. 

 

Why doesn't this CTS have a coupe?  Why no ATS-V yet?  Poor product planning again, and Cadillac moves too slow.  Probably due to financial constraints rather than ineptitude.  Either way, they can only blame themselves for their product line.  If Cadillac gets really aggressive and launches a massive product assault maybe they can make a dent in the luxury market, but I still question where the money comes from to do it. 

[smk4565]

 

Car names regularly change size segments, it's a natural progression over time.  The CTS has moved in size right along with the 5-series and E-class they've been chasing. That the CTS is now the size of the old STS is a function of the entire segment moving in that direction rather than anything Cadillac did specifically.   The CTS was originally a 5-series sized car at at 3-series price... today it is a 5-series size car at a 5-series price.  That's a good thing for Cadillac.

1986 E-class length/width/height    188.2/68.5/56.3    3826 lbs

2014 E-class length/width/height    192.1/73.0/57.1    4012 lbs

 

Less than 4 inches in length and less than an inch in height in almost 30 years.  The size creep is out of control!

Edited September 29, 2014 by smk4565

[Drew Dowdell]

The CTS has basically followed whatever 5-series was out at release time by about 1/10th of an inch to an inch in each external dimension.

The two Cadillac sedans are for two different people. The XTS is for people who value size over sport (though it is far more capable than you can legally drive it anyway, and I've had it on the track) and the CTS is for people who value sport over size.

[smk4565]

S-class dimensions since 1973

 

W116    length/width/height   210.0/73.6/56.0  (Euro market car had different bumpers so they were 199.3 inches long)

W126    length/width/height   203.1/71.7/56.7

W140    length/width/height   205.1/73.4/58.5

W220    length/width/height   203.3/73.1/56.9

W221    length/width/height   205.1/73.7/58.0

W222    length/width/height   206.5/74.8/58.7

 

The inconsistency is out of control!   Although Cadillac could take those numbers and average the 6 together for the dimensions of the CT6.

[Drew Dowdell]

This may surprise you, but there are other cars on the market besides Benzes

[2QuickZ's]

 

I think if Cadillac's goal was to draw in new customers while simultaneously alienating their existing customers, they may just have a success on their hands here!  At what point does GM's renaming insanity stop?  They have to get out of the mindset that they make garbage product and therefore have to rename each model when the new generation comes out so the new car isn't tied to the negative brand equity.  That "old GM" thinking should have been left with "old GM."  I hate to say it but while the execution plan may be better than Infiniti, I still predict this will turn out poorly for the brand.

 

 

Quick question. Where was the "garbage product at Cadillac?" 

 

Second.. the CT6 is not a renaming of any existing car. Its a name for a new product completely. The whole line-up at some point will have new naming "scheme" granted, but the reasons for sticking with the "CT" part was to keep in relation with the oldest and best known CAR product still in the line-up. The issue at hand is whether or not the name CT6.. the "6" portion being worthy of being the flagship. Furthermore the true focus of the Cadillac brand should be is focusing on the BRAND CADILLAC. This is what the original reason they went with alphanumeric in the first place. NO ONE.. and I mean NO ONE.. ever tells me they drive a 3series,, 5series,,, 7series... EClass.. XTS. They always say "oh that's my BMW.. my Benz.. my Cadillac." Well. unless its the Escalade.. which is essentially a brand in and of itself similar to the Corvette. 

 

I stay on course with the idea that the S-Class name is not iconic.. the idea of the "big Benz" is iconic... for reasons I still don't agree.  

 

Lastly people who automatically write this off as an exercise in futility simply do not want this great American brand to rise back to its rightful place. As simply as that. 

 

 

Well, Catera production (remember the Caddy that zigged?) ended in 2001 so I guess it has been about 14 year now.  Either way, I said that GM needed to stop thinking that way.  I think their current Cadillac's are excellent.  My post was regarding their renaming problem in general, though, not just with Cadillac.  What iconic GM vehicle names have stood the test of time?  Corvette, of course.  Camaro, Impala, Malibu and Regal have, though they have all taken a hiatus at one time or another for various lengths of time.  Suburban for sure.  Tahoe since it has made it more than 20 years?  Silverado if you include the years that it was a trim level on the C/K?  Am I forgetting anything?  Is that even 15% of their lineup?

 

True, CT6 is not a renaming of an existing car.  Obviously I was speaking about their plan to rename their whole lineup based off of this naming convention.

 

Your last statement is absolutely incorrect.  I DO want Cadillac to succeed.  That is exactly why I hate the new naming scheme.  Apparently I'm not alone as I really haven't read too many positive comments anywhere.  To me it seems like exactly what Cadillac DOESN'T need if they are trying to turn sales around.  I guess a potential positive side effect of it is they are going to have to spend big marketing dollars to help the consumer understand what the new names mean and that is probably marketing money that wouldn't be spend if they weren't changing names.

 

Edited September 30, 2014 by 2QuickZ's

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Cmicasa the Great

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

I agree with this. Many will argue that CTS sales are down for various negative, but false reasons, one being the uptick in price. While that may have some validation due to the fact that Cadillac isn't targeting the tweener buyer anymore.. one still has to remember that not only does THIS CTS not have a coupe or a wagon to add to sales (the coupe accounted for almost 33%) it also has same price competition from the XTS, which is a vehicle that I see as ad hoc waiting for the CT6.. and then probably towards Black car sales, as nice as it is.

 

Poor product planning got Cadillac 2 sedans that are at the same price point.  If they did it so one could be a fleet queen to protect the CTS I can see the point.  Although one could argue you could have made the XTS a Buick Park Ave and done the black car sales through Buick. 

 

Why doesn't this CTS have a coupe?  Why no ATS-V yet?  Poor product planning again, and Cadillac moves too slow.  Probably due to financial constraints rather than ineptitude.  Either way, they can only blame themselves for their product line.  If Cadillac gets really aggressive and launches a massive product assault maybe they can make a dent in the luxury market, but I still question where the money comes from to do it. 

 

 

 

So many things going on your post I don't kno where to start. First and foremost we both kno U have no interest in anything Domestic succeeding.. Second.. the ATS-V is coming at LAIAS. The ATS coupe just launched and is rather fresh on dealer lots. I'd say like 3 weeks max. Lastly the fact that Cadillac with 5 cars is still the #5 selling luxo brand in the country says that they are making a helluva dent already. 

 

Side bar:

 

I find it interesting and gleaming of bias that no one seems to squawk about Audi having 12 nameplates and only taking the #4 spot by 2000 sales over Cadillac. And why the hell does the ELR get a bunch of $h! for selling only 200 a month but Audi gets a pass selling the R8 and TT with far less combined sales?

 

[smk4565]

The R8 is like $150,000, no one expects it to sell in high volume.

 

Cadillac does need more models, Audi is supposed to have 60 by 2020 because they count A4/S4 separate, A5 coupe and convertible are counted as two, etc.  It takes lots of body style and engine choices to succeed in the luxury market, that is something Cadillac hasn't seemed willing to do.  Cadillac needs convertibles, coupes, crossovers galore.  The AMG C63 will be on sale before the ATS-V and the standard ATS beat the C-class to market by 2 full years.  Cadillac moves too slow, people will go elsewhere if they want a coupe, convertible, wagon, compact SUV, etc. 

[2QuickZ's]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post, I have lusted after the CTS-V wagon since it was announced.  It is still my favorite current car and I hope to own one some day.  I love the CTS V-sport and can't wait to see what is coming for the new CTS-V and ATS-V.  Are they going to be the CT3-V and CT5-V in their next generation?

Edited September 30, 2014 by 2QuickZ's

[Z-06]

 

First and foremost the K900 is no Cadillac. It is at most a strong Chevy SS contender, which is high praise considering that the SS is a damn nice Zeta.. which is the platform for larger and more luxurious Holden offerings of past.  In reality Kia could have kept the name Quoris, but instead then traded that name in here for what brings quick to me visions of a German Sheppard.. as in K9..

 

As far as Caddy is concerned I agree that a higher number may have shut some people up, but I think the idea is that CT6 gives them other avenues to cross. Its funny though. Since the 7series is a 7 do people see it as less than the A8, because its an 8? I haven't seen that. Ever. The naming scheme at Cadillac seems to being going in the opposite way of BMW. Sedans get Even and Coupes get Odd. The possibility of a CT7 seems plausible. It being the same car as the CT6 it will get the Halo/Flagship rep the same. This is similar to how the S-Class Sedan and the Coupe, once CL, did it. The CL was always more expensive too

 

 

May be I should have stated better. The NAME CT6 is as anonymous as K9000. The car just exists without any siginificance. There was no comparison of actual cars intended.

 

As far as second comment, may be again, I should have stated better. You have a number 6, which has no significane whatsoever, and is possibly associated to the biggest car in the lineup, what numbers the smallest cars are going to see? -1, -2, -3? At least give yourself room for expanding at the bottom if you are going to be stuck with the logic of using CT and a number.

 

It is funny de Nysschen is poo-pooing about the name change and how it is important to the brand. And here we were giving him a free pass for being hired after the trademarking of names.

[ZL-1]

 

 

First and foremost the K900 is no Cadillac. It is at most a strong Chevy SS contender, which is high praise considering that the SS is a damn nice Zeta.. which is the platform for larger and more luxurious Holden offerings of past.  In reality Kia could have kept the name Quoris, but instead then traded that name in here for what brings quick to me visions of a German Sheppard.. as in K9..

 

As far as Caddy is concerned I agree that a higher number may have shut some people up, but I think the idea is that CT6 gives them other avenues to cross. Its funny though. Since the 7series is a 7 do people see it as less than the A8, because its an 8? I haven't seen that. Ever. The naming scheme at Cadillac seems to being going in the opposite way of BMW. Sedans get Even and Coupes get Odd. The possibility of a CT7 seems plausible. It being the same car as the CT6 it will get the Halo/Flagship rep the same. This is similar to how the S-Class Sedan and the Coupe, once CL, did it. The CL was always more expensive too

 

 

May be I should have stated better. The NAME CT6 is as anonymous as K9000. The car just exists without any siginificance. There was no comparison of actual cars intended.

 

As far as second comment, may be again, I should have stated better. You have a number 6, which has no significane whatsoever, and is possibly associated to the biggest car in the lineup, what numbers the smallest cars are going to see? -1, -2, -3? At least give yourself room for expanding at the bottom if you are going to be stuck with the logic of using CT and a number.

 

It is funny de Nysschen is poo-pooing about the name change and how it is important to the brand. And here we were giving him a free pass for being hired after the trademarking of names.

 

I think there's room for that expansion: CT6 and CT5 have been trademarked; we now know what CT6 is, and CT5 could either be a 4-door coupe or an Alpha-based (or Omega-based - that's what I'd do to maximize the 'milking' of both the Alpha and Omega architectures) 2 door to sit between what is now the CTS sedan and the CT6. I expect the CTS to become CT4 and the ATS to either become CT3 or CT2. Don't see the need to go further down than one notch below where the current ATS is; Buick can and should handle that.

[Robert Hall]

Maybe they will do a CT8 as a flagship eventually...

 

Quotes from a Jalopnik article (comment by Motor Trend writer):

"And CT6 is not positioned against S-Class, 7 Series or A8." -Johan de Nysschen #cadillac #CT6

"[CT6]" will have more advanced technology, better dynamics, similar refinement but it is smaller." -Johan de Nysschen #cadillac #CT6

 

Interesting...

[Z-06]

 

 

 

First and foremost the K900 is no Cadillac. It is at most a strong Chevy SS contender, which is high praise considering that the SS is a damn nice Zeta.. which is the platform for larger and more luxurious Holden offerings of past.  In reality Kia could have kept the name Quoris, but instead then traded that name in here for what brings quick to me visions of a German Sheppard.. as in K9..

 

As far as Caddy is concerned I agree that a higher number may have shut some people up, but I think the idea is that CT6 gives them other avenues to cross. Its funny though. Since the 7series is a 7 do people see it as less than the A8, because its an 8? I haven't seen that. Ever. The naming scheme at Cadillac seems to being going in the opposite way of BMW. Sedans get Even and Coupes get Odd. The possibility of a CT7 seems plausible. It being the same car as the CT6 it will get the Halo/Flagship rep the same. This is similar to how the S-Class Sedan and the Coupe, once CL, did it. The CL was always more expensive too

 

 

May be I should have stated better. The NAME CT6 is as anonymous as K9000. The car just exists without any siginificance. There was no comparison of actual cars intended.

 

As far as second comment, may be again, I should have stated better. You have a number 6, which has no significane whatsoever, and is possibly associated to the biggest car in the lineup, what numbers the smallest cars are going to see? -1, -2, -3? At least give yourself room for expanding at the bottom if you are going to be stuck with the logic of using CT and a number.

 

It is funny de Nysschen is poo-pooing about the name change and how it is important to the brand. And here we were giving him a free pass for being hired after the trademarking of names.

 

I think there's room for that expansion: CT6 and CT5 have been trademarked; we now know what CT6 is, and CT5 could either be a 4-door coupe or an Alpha-based (or Omega-based - that's what I'd do to maximize the 'milking' of both the Alpha and Omega architectures) 2 door to sit between what is now the CTS sedan and the CT6. I expect the CTS to become CT4 and the ATS to either become CT3 or CT2. Don't see the need to go further down than one notch below where the current ATS is; Buick can and should handle that.

 

 

You may not, but GM sees the need to build a RWD car smaller than ATS. According to Uwe Effinghaus.

[Cmicasa the Great]

The R8 is like $150,000, no one expects it to sell in high volume.

 

 

 

 

Yeah and the ELR is like $75K and in limited niche market for EVs, is a coupe, and no more than a 2+2, regarless I added the sales of the TT in there and, at a price that is more in line with the Volt, and half the ELR,  it is not exactly an expensive car. All of that.. and people expect the ELR to sell 1000 per month. At 200 per month in a normal year that would translate to the expected and projected 2400 a year

[Cmicasa the Great]

Maybe they will do a CT8 as a flagship eventually...

 

Quotes from a Jalopnik article (comment by Motor Trend writer):

"And CT6 is not positioned against S-Class, 7 Series or A8." -Johan de Nysschen #cadillac #CT6

"[CT6]" will have more advanced technology, better dynamics, similar refinement but it is smaller." -Johan de Nysschen #cadillac #CT6

 

Interesting...

 

 

 

I think the CT6 will for all intents be the Flagship car that Cadillac needs.. sized like the 7series. I also believe that there is gonna be an even more grandiose vehicle on Omega shortly after. CT8? 

[balthazar]

Sometimes a new idea/name gells immediately. Sometimes…. it takes time.

So when exactly am I going to STOP cringing when I read 'CT6'? 

[ZL-1]

 

 

 

 

First and foremost the K900 is no Cadillac. It is at most a strong Chevy SS contender, which is high praise considering that the SS is a damn nice Zeta.. which is the platform for larger and more luxurious Holden offerings of past.  In reality Kia could have kept the name Quoris, but instead then traded that name in here for what brings quick to me visions of a German Sheppard.. as in K9..

 

As far as Caddy is concerned I agree that a higher number may have shut some people up, but I think the idea is that CT6 gives them other avenues to cross. Its funny though. Since the 7series is a 7 do people see it as less than the A8, because its an 8? I haven't seen that. Ever. The naming scheme at Cadillac seems to being going in the opposite way of BMW. Sedans get Even and Coupes get Odd. The possibility of a CT7 seems plausible. It being the same car as the CT6 it will get the Halo/Flagship rep the same. This is similar to how the S-Class Sedan and the Coupe, once CL, did it. The CL was always more expensive too

 

 

May be I should have stated better. The NAME CT6 is as anonymous as K9000. The car just exists without any siginificance. There was no comparison of actual cars intended.

 

As far as second comment, may be again, I should have stated better. You have a number 6, which has no significane whatsoever, and is possibly associated to the biggest car in the lineup, what numbers the smallest cars are going to see? -1, -2, -3? At least give yourself room for expanding at the bottom if you are going to be stuck with the logic of using CT and a number.

 

It is funny de Nysschen is poo-pooing about the name change and how it is important to the brand. And here we were giving him a free pass for being hired after the trademarking of names.

 

I think there's room for that expansion: CT6 and CT5 have been trademarked; we now know what CT6 is, and CT5 could either be a 4-door coupe or an Alpha-based (or Omega-based - that's what I'd do to maximize the 'milking' of both the Alpha and Omega architectures) 2 door to sit between what is now the CTS sedan and the CT6. I expect the CTS to become CT4 and the ATS to either become CT3 or CT2. Don't see the need to go further down than one notch below where the current ATS is; Buick can and should handle that.

 

 

You may not, but GM sees the need to build a RWD car smaller than ATS. According to Uwe Effinghaus.

 

I wrote "one notch below where the current ATS is"; that's the RWD sub-ATS. Further down than that, I don't see that need.

[David]

I honestly do not see a need for Cadillac to waste R&D dollars on the compact or sub compact market. Leave it to Buick. Yet since they have the compact ATS, might as well focus on that and upwards. Make sure the ATS and CTS have 4 door sedans, 2 door coupes, convertibles and even station wagons.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I honestly do not see a need for Cadillac to waste R&D dollars on the compact or sub compact market. Leave it to Buick. Yet since they have the compact ATS, might as well focus on that and upwards. Make sure the ATS and CTS have 4 door sedans, 2 door coupes, convertibles and even station wagons.

 

 

 

I agree with this. Unfortunately the media, which focuses on individual brand sales will make it seem as tho Cadillac is lacking if they don't have a counter for the POS CLA. I mean let's not forget that despite the fact that everyone knows the Sierra and Silvy are the same truck, but the media.. and Ford fans will be quick to tell U that the F-Series outsells them individually. I have always maintained that Combined sales of Buick and Cadillac would be balked at for no other reason than it makes GM look very well positioned.

 

Technically Cadillac-Buick combined (267K) have sold more luxury vehicles than anyone else.. It technically is the #1 group, beating out Benz (even including Sprinter and Smart= 228K ) and BMW (even including Mini 245K)

[smk4565]

Buick is not a luxury brand, they have 3 sedans under $32k or whatever a Lacrosse goes for, those are VW prices. I would argue that Cadillac can't just leave entry luxury to Buick because the old days of buy a Chevy, trade up to a Buick, trade up to a Cadillac are gone.

Cadillac needs to do what is best for Cadillac and they need to think how do we get people under 40 into the brand so they come back and buy more Cadillacs for the next 30-40 years. A3/Q3 and CLA/GLA sales will have Cadillac in the compact luxury segment by 2020, they can't miss out on the entry market when they already said they would alienate the tradional Cadillac customer with the new product line.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Buick is not a luxury brand, they have 3 sedans under $32k or whatever a Lacrosse goes for, those are VW prices.

 

 

 

Ummm  Mercedes will soon have 3 Vehicle under $32.. no $30,000. What's your point again?

[Cmicasa the Great]

'XT' Will Be New Nomenclature For Cadillac SUVs, CMO Says
Forbes
September 30, 2014
By: Dale Buss

When Cadillac introduces new sport-utility vehicles and crossovers, the nameplates will begin with a “XT” designation to complement the new “CT” designation that the brand already has announced for its new sedans beginning with the flagship CT6 that is to be launched next year.

And just as in Cadillac’s new naming scheme for its sedans, the “XT” for each SUV will be followed by a number that indicates the size of thevehicle relative to other SUVs in the Cadillac lineup. Cadillac’s existing Escalade large SUV will be an exception to the new plan.

Cadillac Chief Marketing Officer Uwe Ellinghaus told me that “future SUVs will have an ‘X’T and cars will have a ‘CT’ and the number behind each pair of letters will indicate its size in the hierarchy.”

Full article at link.http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/09/30/xt-will-be-new-nomenclature-for-cadillac-suvs-cmo-says/

[smk4565]

Buick is not a luxury brand, they have 3 sedans under $32k or whatever a Lacrosse goes for, those are VW prices.

Ummm Mercedes will soon have 3 Vehicle under $32.. no $30,000. What's your point again?

My point is 4 of 5 Buick products are under $32k so they aren't a luxury brand. Most of Mercedes lineup is above $50k.

[smk4565]

I can't wait for the new XT4 that is going to be awesome. Sounds like a quad or jet ski.

Why is the Escalade not the XT6? If alpha numeric is superior and names like Eldorado, LaSalle, and Fleetwood are no good, why is Escalade acceptable? This naming scheme makes no sense. If anything Cadillac should take a look at their most successful product of the past 15 years has a word name while their alphanumeric cars like STS, DTS, XLR bit the dust.

[David]

I will agree with SMK that Cadillac needs to look at the last 15-20 years of successful names and base all models off solid names and dump the Alphabet soup.

 

SUV/CUV's

 

Escalade ESV = Escalade ESV

Escalade = Escalade

7 passenger CUV = Ascende

SRX = Arise

 

Car's

 

ATS sedan, Coupe and Convertible = Calais

ATS V Editions = Calais V

 

CTS Sedan, Coupe, Convertible and Station Wagon = DeVille / Coupe DeVille

CTS V Editions = DeVille V

 

CT6 Sedan = Elmiraj

CT6 Coupe = Cien

CT6 Convertible = Evoq

CT6 V Editions = Elmiraj V, Cien V and Evoq V

 

Hybrids

ELR = Converj

 

This I feel would have been World Worthy Names for Cadillac to grow and build their line on.

[Camino LS6]

You're onto something there, dfelt. Caddy's concept names were all pretty good (and marketable) alphabet soup sucks no matter what brand wears it. I guess you can forgive Benz and BMW since they come by their alphanumerics honestly, but on anything else it comes off as a farce.

[balthazar]

A3/Q3 and CLA/GLA sales will have Cadillac in the compact luxury segment by 2020, they can't miss out on the entry market ...

2014 MB CLAh, FWD ~ overall length: 182", MSRP: $31,605

2014 Cadillac ATS, RWD ~ overall length: 182", MSRP: $33,065

 

What in the World are you talking about ??? Are you suggesting another sedan, the same exact size, except FWD in order to "be in the market" ???

 

Or perhaps Cadillac needs to drop the price a few hundred, give it a cheap chassis & interior, and you'll sing the ATS's praise.

Fact of the matter is; Cadillac was out first in this segment, with a better product getting much better reviews, and MB -instead of building the car they should of in the first place- is instead diverting funds to even cheaper, MORE downmarket models. I've never seen a more robust 'toyotafication' of a brand.

Edited October 1, 2014 by balthazar

[Cmicasa the Great]

Maybe they will do a CT8 as a flagship eventually...

 

Quotes from a Jalopnik article (comment by Motor Trend writer):

"And CT6 is not positioned against S-Class, 7 Series or A8." -Johan de Nysschen #cadillac #CT6

"[CT6]" will have more advanced technology, better dynamics, similar refinement but it is smaller." -Johan de Nysschen #cadillac #CT6

 

Interesting...

 

 

 

This is picking up steam in my head now.

 

Cadillac had previously claimed the CT6 will be the "most agile car among in the class of top-level large luxury sedans," but de Nysschen is now clarifying that the flagship is not meant to be positioned against the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 7 Series, or Audi A8. Instead, he says it will offer similar refinement but more technology and a smaller body. In light of this, we think that the CT6 could rival a BMW Gran Coupe, and that a possible CT8 could end up as an S-Class fighter down the line.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/wot/1409_johan_de_nysschen_explains_big_changes_at_cadillac/#ixzz3EtUcY51p

 

This could completely kill all issues with the naming/position of the "6" in the CT. This CT6, for all intents makes its way into the world by being a larger, more technologically advanced CLS with a longer (120) wheelbase for better room in the rear. Based on spy pics this car is at least 200 inches long give or take 2. With pricing projected to come in at about $72K and up.. YES!!! I see what is being done!!! Start out with the CT6, performance driven, techno laden, luxury encompassing DRIVER'S big car.. then follow up in '17 with a CT8, and ... a 9.

 

In truth the Cadillac heritage is a luxury car leader's dream. They can take this very far up the ladder imo. I think from now on U will see a lot of Cadillac news coming over the stream

[ZL-1]

My interpretation is that this was meant as that, on a tit-for-tat basis, it won't compete (especially against the S-Class and its upper variants). I'm forming this guess that a longer sedan is in the works - think of a Bentley Mulsanne type of beast without the USD 300.000 price tag.

[smk4565]

So after years of promising an S-class competitor, they all of a sudden back down?  A couple months ago a Cadillac executive also said how they were surprised the new S-class was so good.  If the CT6 becomes a CLS or Gran Coupe competitor, that makes no sense.  First off it doesn't look like a coupe, and the CLS and Gran Coupe are dressed up version of the E-class and 5-series.  If Cadillac were to make a CLS competitor it would be a rebodied CTS with a sportier feeling interior and some extra options.

 

I like most of dfelt's name ideas, but leave Deville on the shelf.  I think Seville, Fleetwood, Eldorado are still good, they could bring back LaSalle, maybe Catera, most people probably forgot what the Catera was by this point.  The crossovers would need some new names, so that is where they could tap into the concept names.

[smk4565]

 

A3/Q3 and CLA/GLA sales will have Cadillac in the compact luxury segment by 2020, they can't miss out on the entry market ...

2014 MB CLAh, FWD ~ overall length: 182", MSRP: $31,605

2014 Cadillac ATS, RWD ~ overall length: 182", MSRP: $33,065

 

What in the World are you talking about ??? Are you suggesting another sedan, the same exact size, except FWD in order to "be in the market" ???

 

Or perhaps Cadillac needs to drop the price a few hundred, give it a cheap chassis & interior, and you'll sing the ATS's praise.

Fact of the matter is; Cadillac was out first in this segment, with a better product getting much better reviews, and MB -instead of building the car they should of in the first place- is instead diverting funds to even cheaper, MORE downmarket models. I've never seen a more robust 'toyotafication' of a brand.

 

First in what segment, the ATS was supposed to compete with the C-class, A4 and 3-series.  The SRX is supposed to compete with the RX350 and Lincoln MKX, but now Lincoln and Lexus both have a compact SUV, so Cadillac needs a crossover that is smaller and cheaper than the SRX and they need something between the SRX and Escalade.    Cadillac needs an entry level SUV more than a sedan, the GLA, X1, Q3, MKC, Lexus NX, etc, that is a quickly growing segment.  Perhaps instead of a sedan below the ATS they can put a hot hatch which would appeal to euro minded buyers, without just being another sedan in the line up.

[Cmicasa the Great]

So after years of promising an S-class competitor, they all of a sudden back down?  A couple months ago a Cadillac executive also said how they were surprised the new S-class was so good.  If the CT6 becomes a CLS or Gran Coupe competitor, that makes no sense.  First off it doesn't look like a coupe, and the CLS and Gran Coupe are dressed up version of the E-class and 5-series.  If Cadillac were to make a CLS competitor it would be a rebodied CTS with a sportier feeling interior and some extra options.

 

I like most of dfelt's name ideas, but leave Deville on the shelf.  I think Seville, Fleetwood, Eldorado are still good, they could bring back LaSalle, maybe Catera, most people probably forgot what the Catera was by this point.  The crossovers would need some new names, so that is where they could tap into the concept names.

 

 

No... I think they are doing everything but backing down. My real interpretation is that outside of the full 206 inch 124 Wheelbase we will see a slightly shorter at 200 inches and 120 WB car to compete more as a driver's car than the S-Class is. More like an upgraded 7series with better than S-Class technology and amenities. THEN with in a few years a CT8. I'm pumped. Because as much as I love the idea of the CT8 I would not buy one if it drove like an S-Class. Not until I'm in my 60s anyway which is 20 years away. I'd buy a 95% SClass size with 110% S-Class tech and certainly 200% better than S-Class looks  

[ZL-1]

So after years of promising an S-class competitor, they all of a sudden back down?  A couple months ago a Cadillac executive also said how they were surprised the new S-class was so good.  If the CT6 becomes a CLS or Gran Coupe competitor, that makes no sense.  First off it doesn't look like a coupe, and the CLS and Gran Coupe are dressed up version of the E-class and 5-series.  If Cadillac were to make a CLS competitor it would be a rebodied CTS with a sportier feeling interior and some extra options.

 

I like most of dfelt's name ideas, but leave Deville on the shelf.  I think Seville, Fleetwood, Eldorado are still good, they could bring back LaSalle, maybe Catera, most people probably forgot what the Catera was by this point.  The crossovers would need some new names, so that is where they could tap into the concept names.

I'm thinking two-pronged strategy rather than a back down.

[Cmicasa the Great]

and to anyone who has ever called the Small Block a lowly truck engine.. Z06 just speced

 

"60 mph in only 2.95 seconds when equipped with the all-new, available eight-speed paddle-shift automatic transmission and a quarter-mile sprint takes just 10.95 seconds@ 127mph"

 

http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-corvette-z06-hits-0-60-in-2-95-seconds-is-stu-1641216532

 

 

CTS-V.. and any Cadillac that gets this motor should be grateful.. as a Cadillac VCoupe owner, who has also spent more than $185K in the last year on GM products I support this engine, its technology and volunteer to dump on the hood of a Benz any day I'm asked

Edited October 1, 2014 by Cmicasa the Great

[balthazar]

If the CT6 becomes a CLS or Gran Coupe competitor, that makes no sense.  First off it doesn't look like a coupe, and the CLS and Gran Coupe are dressed up version of the E-class and 5-series.

No one buys the CLS or gran coupe- it's pointless to compete with flops. And as rebadged sedan versions of existing sedans, there's too much overlap.

 

 

 

 

A3/Q3 and CLA/GLA sales will have Cadillac in the compact luxury segment by 2020, they can't miss out on the entry market ...

2014 MB CLAh, FWD ~ overall length: 182", MSRP: $31,605

2014 Cadillac ATS, RWD ~ overall length: 182", MSRP: $33,065

 

What in the World are you talking about ??? Are you suggesting another sedan, the same exact size, except FWD in order to "be in the market" ???

 

Or perhaps Cadillac needs to drop the price a few hundred, give it a cheap chassis & interior, and you'll sing the ATS's praise.

Fact of the matter is; Cadillac was out first in this segment, with a better product getting much better reviews, and MB -instead of building the car they should of in the first place- is instead diverting funds to even cheaper, MORE downmarket models. I've never seen a more robust 'toyotafication' of a brand.

 

First in what segment, the ATS was supposed to compete with the C-class, A4 and 3-series.  The SRX is supposed to compete with the RX350 and Lincoln MKX, but now Lincoln and Lexus both have a compact SUV, so Cadillac needs a crossover that is smaller and cheaper than the SRX and they need something between the SRX and Escalade.    Cadillac needs an entry level SUV more than a sedan, the GLA, X1, Q3, MKC, Lexus NX, etc, that is a quickly growing segment.  Perhaps instead of a sedan below the ATS they can put a hot hatch which would appeal to euro minded buyers, without just being another sedan in the line up.

Again- there's too much overlap here also- the c-class & CLA class are the exact same size (CLA is actually longer due to the ponderous FWD overhang), and the prices are too close with a LOT of overlap. Makes no sense. And with the CLA @ $31K to start, its closer to the ATS's segment than the c-class is- they're automatically cross-shopped (by those who don't put the badge as reason numbers 1-10 on their list).

But suggesting bringing out the same size car, seemingly as a ill-handling FWD cheap sedan, is about the worst course of action Cadillac could take. Any sub-ATS car (shudder) should be much more unique, say; like the ULC concept. Cadillac needs a much more targeted approach than just 'produce anything we can think of and see what sells'.

[smk4565]

A sub ATS doesn't have to be FWD, it could be a RWD hot hatch or rwd 2+2 coupe with a 3rd door like a Mazda Rx-8 had.  I think a small entry crossover is more important though.  The ATS is already pretty cheap.  There are thousands upon thousands of CR-V, Rav4 and Escape or Rogue buyers that will move to luxury mini utes one day.  And that crowd is mostly clueless about car engineering after 10 years in a CR-V they'll think a Audi Q3 or Mercedes GLA is like driving a Rolls-Royce, and won't they look cool when they have an Audi or a Benz and their friend or neighbor has a Ford or Toyota, or so they will think.

 

The C-class is now $40,000 base, so it won't overlap with the CLA, despite similar size. 

[smk4565]

 

So after years of promising an S-class competitor, they all of a sudden back down?  A couple months ago a Cadillac executive also said how they were surprised the new S-class was so good.  If the CT6 becomes a CLS or Gran Coupe competitor, that makes no sense.  First off it doesn't look like a coupe, and the CLS and Gran Coupe are dressed up version of the E-class and 5-series.  If Cadillac were to make a CLS competitor it would be a rebodied CTS with a sportier feeling interior and some extra options.

 

I like most of dfelt's name ideas, but leave Deville on the shelf.  I think Seville, Fleetwood, Eldorado are still good, they could bring back LaSalle, maybe Catera, most people probably forgot what the Catera was by this point.  The crossovers would need some new names, so that is where they could tap into the concept names.

 

 

No... I think they are doing everything but backing down. My real interpretation is that outside of the full 206 inch 124 Wheelbase we will see a slightly shorter at 200 inches and 120 WB car to compete more as a driver's car than the S-Class is. More like an upgraded 7series with better than S-Class technology and amenities. THEN with in a few years a CT8. I'm pumped. Because as much as I love the idea of the CT8 I would not buy one if it drove like an S-Class. Not until I'm in my 60s anyway which is 20 years away. I'd buy a 95% SClass size with 110% S-Class tech and certainly 200% better than S-Class looks  

 

No car on the planet has more technology than the S-class.    If Cadillac is going for smaller, lighter and better handling with a boosted V6, they are basically copying the Jaguar XJ.  I personally like the Jaguar XJ, it is a cool looking car, but it also sells worse than the big 3 Germans, the Panamera or LS460.  The XJ is my second favorite of the big sedans, but to market doesn't seem to buy them.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

No car on the planet has more technology than the S-class

 

 

 

 

That may be the case on Oct 1, 2014.. but once the CT6 arrives this could be completely false.

 

Beep Beep.. who's waiting on the corner for the GROUPIE bus on its way to Stuttgart

[smk4565]

 

 

No car on the planet has more technology than the S-class

 

 

 

 

That may be the case on Oct 1, 2014.. but once the CT6 arrives this could be completely false.

 

Beep Beep.. who's waiting on the corner for the GROUPIE bus on its way to Stuttgart

 

BMW, Audi and Lexus could never pass it in technology.  Doesn't mean that Cadillac can't, but I think it unlikely that on their first try they succeed where the others have tried and failed for years.

[Cmicasa the Great]

And just like that  ^^^^

 

 

 

DETROIT -- The CT6 sedan due late next year is intended to be more than just a high-end Cadillac.

General Motors is counting on the car to be a rolling showcase of the company’s engineering and technology prowess, and its determination once again to rise to the top of the automotive world.  http://www.autonews.com/article/20141001/OEM04/141009976/gm-will-position-cadillac-ct6-as-tech-showcase?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Cmicasa the Great]

and from Autonews Twitter

Automotive News @Automotive_News ·

 

 

Reuss: #Cadillac #CT6 is 24 kg lighter than CTS, but 8 inches longer.

 

 

 

Reuss: #Cadillac CT6 body will be one of the most advanced, but not all-aluminum.

Adding 8 inches to the CTS's 195.5" length puts the CT6 at 203.5".

Also posted:

Reuss: #Cadillac ATS-V will be an “#M3-beater.” CTS-V will be “the #M5 hammer”

Reuss: #Cadillac #CT6 rearview mirror will integrate rear-backup view to allow driver to “see through” headrests and other

obstacles.

#Cadillac #CT6 will be PHEV, running up to 75 mph on EV. 0 to 6 in under 6 sec."

 

 

So I was off on the size by 3.5 inches. This car is still gonna be 4.5 inches longer than the 7series and only 2.5 inches shorter than the S-Class.

 

But HOLY $h!!!! It's gonna be about 53lbs lighter than the CTS. That means that this car will come in .. even if with the TTV6 at about 3900lbs, that's about 1000lbs less than the S-Class and 400lbs less than the A7

Edited October 2, 2014 by Cmicasa the Great

[smk4565]

S500 plug in will do 0-60 in 5.2 seconds and that goes on sale in March.  Waiting 2 years to get 0-60 in under 6 seconds isn't worth it.  If the CT6 comes in under 4,000 lbs that will be very noteworthy and I'll give them props for that.  But the 3.6 V6 goes back to like 2004, even with the twin turbo version it is an adequate base engine but it doesn't have a lot of wow factor for me in a high end segment.  Like the BMW straight six turbo is fabulous for a 3-series, best engine in the segment, but on a 7-series it doesn't have the same panache.

[Cmicasa the Great]

S500 plug in will do 0-60 in 5.2 seconds and that goes on sale in March.  Waiting 2 years to get 0-60 in under 6 seconds isn't worth it.  If the CT6 comes in under 4,000 lbs that will be very noteworthy and I'll give them props for that.  But the 3.6 V6 goes back to like 2004, even with the twin turbo version it is an adequate base engine but it doesn't have a lot of wow factor for me in a high end segment.  Like the BMW straight six turbo is fabulous for a 3-series, best engine in the segment, but on a 7-series it doesn't have the same panache.

 

New engine coming and just for spit and giggles the LT1 goes back 60+. The 3,6L from 2004 is not the same as the current one. The LFX was just upgraded 2 years ago and is much improved. 

 

And I have yet to see the 5.2 time for the S500 Plug-In. I've seen est of 5.5 and up to 18 miles of EV. I'm dying to kno how U reconcile your celebration of that to the Krauts over the Cadillac getting up to 75 miles on EV?

[balthazar]

S-class has gotten extremely bloated & heavy, it needs a instant crash diet. No doubt MB will follow Cadillac here & finally address it's weight issues.

Of course, "buyers aren't going to wait a few years for a high end sedan that doesn't weigh 3 tons'.

 

If the 'CT6' {shudder} comes in around 3900, that's going to be felt on the road immediately. ATS is far closer (tho still lighter) that most of the rest of it's segment, and the road test reviews favor it's roadability because of it.

[smk4565]

The ATS gets outsold like 5 to 1 by the overweight 3-series.  I know Cadillac is trying and I can appreciate the effort put into cutting weight, but it isn't translating to sales.  The Jaguar XJ has always been a lightweight, they have done full aluminum bodies for over 10 years, and the Lexus and the Germans outsell it still.   If they make the CT6 more luxurious and better equipped than an Escalade platinum with performance like a CTS V-sport they could be on to something.  But this car better have a V8 too.  The big boys have V12s, Cadillac at least needs 8.

 

More than anything in this segment you need brand image, brand cache, whatever you want to call it.  A car called CT6 is going to be as anonymous as the Infiniti Q60 or Q70.  Cadillac should have dug into the history books and brought back Fleetwood and Eldorado so they could do some heritage marketing and at least have instant name recognition and build some emotional appeal. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The 3-series outsells the Cadillac because of badge-whores like you.... not because it is a better driving car... it isn't.

[Cmicasa the Great]

The 3-series outsells the Cadillac because of badge-whores like you.... not because it is a better driving car... it isn't.

 

 

Exactly. I still can not get over the fact that no one acknowledges that variation of the car sell it too. Sedan, Coupe, Convertible, GC, wagon.. and its stealing sales from the 5series I'm betting good money

[Z-06]

The ATS gets outsold like 5 to 1 by the overweight 3-series.  I know Cadillac is trying and I can appreciate the effort put into cutting weight, but it isn't translating to sales.  The Jaguar XJ has always been a lightweight, they have done full aluminum bodies for over 10 years, and the Lexus and the Germans outsell it still.   If they make the CT6 more luxurious and better equipped than an Escalade platinum with performance like a CTS V-sport they could be on to something.  But this car better have a V8 too.  The big boys have V12s, Cadillac at least needs 8.

 

More than anything in this segment you need brand image, brand cache, whatever you want to call it.  A car called CT6 is going to be as anonymous as the Infiniti Q60 or Q70.  Cadillac should have dug into the history books and brought back Fleetwood and Eldorado so they could do some heritage marketing and at least have instant name recognition and build some emotional appeal. 

 

Just like Camry outsells Mazda6. It is perception of how good the cars are in the mind of brand whores like you. Mercedes Benz may manufacture a re-badge Malibu and you will still call it better than any Cadillac offering.