William Maley

Jaguar News: Rumorpile: BMW Could Supply V8s to Jaguar Land Rover

19 posts in this topic

William Maley    391

Luxury automakers are finding it difficult to make the business case for building V8 engines. Stricter fuel economy and emission standards, along with sales of V8 powered models dropping have them wondering if they should continue work on developing new variants.

 

Take for example Jaguar Land Rover. The current V8 in naturally-aspirated and Supercharged forms has been with us for 20 years. While the company has been trying its best to keep the engine up to date, the thirsty nature and possibility of it not meeting future emission standards has the future of V8 up in the air.

 

But Automobile reports that a deal is currently being worked out by JLR and BMW for the German automaker to supply V8 engines to the British. The possible engine is a new 4.0L twin-turbo V8 that promises to be more powerful, fuel efficient, and lighter than the current V8s on offer from either automaker.

 

Why is BMW making a possible deal with JLR? Most likely it comes down making a stronger business case as to why they should go forward with developing a new V8 engine.

 

Source: Automobile



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dfelt    1,763

I suspect only a few auto makers will still be making V8 or V10 or V12 engines in the next 4 years. Everyone else will either buy their engine from these big bad boys or go to small turbo / variable supercharged engines or EV / Hybrids.

 

The world be changing, :P

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dfelt    1,763

This touches on why I truly believe that GM should just stick with its LT series engines and kill the intro of the TTV8s it has upcoming

 

But SMK says you have to have TTV8 to play in the luxury segment. You have to copy what the Germans do to be a true player. Without having the same engines as the Germans, you are not a true player.

 

:deathwatch:

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smk4565    321

You need a twin turbo V12 to be a luxury/sports car maker of the highest level.  Turbo/super charged V8 to be in the luxury game.  However EV's are going to infiltrate that space, and then it will just be an argument of 500+ hp with no noise and that will be a new form of luxury.  After 2020, EV luxury is going to become more and more common.  

 

I do think it makes sense Jaguar/LR and BMW team up on a V8.  Most Jaguars have a supercharged V6, only the R models have a V8 and they can't sell that many of those.  Likewise with Land Rover, pretty much just the Range Rover uses the V8, and that has a base V6 also.  Over at BMW you have the 7-series and M vehicles. Combined they probably produce less than 100,000 V8s worldwide per year and shrinking, so might as well co-develop one.  

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smk4565    321

This touches on why I truly believe that GM should just stick with its LT series engines and kill the intro of the TTV8s it has upcoming

You could argue the Corvette better off with a twin turbo DOHC V8 though, and Cadillac could use one for sure.   If there is a mid-engine Corvette (which should be a mid-engine Cadillac supercar) a high revving DOHC unit would be better there too.  It is possible by 2025 the the Silverado, Sierra, Yukon, Suburban all have a V6 as their big engine, the Camaro SS will be a V6 by then, probably the only V8 Camaro will be a ZL1.  I don't think GM will have a V8 for sale for less than $60-70,000 come 2025.  CAFE just won't allow that.  So if they keep the LT series, it is for Corvette and big Cadillacs, plus it wouldn't parts share with their DOHC V6.  It probably makes more economic sense to have a 4 liter V8 sharing a block with the 2 liter 4 or 3 liter V6.  

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(1)You need a twin turbo V12 to be a luxury/sports car maker of the highest level.  Turbo/super charged V8 to be in the luxury game.  (2)However EV's are going to infiltrate that space, and then it will just be an argument of 500+ hp with no noise and that will be a new form of luxury.  After 2020, EV luxury is going to become more and more common.  

 

 

Your top statement simply is no longer true.. Ironically U prove me right with your second one. The new name of the game in luxury seems to be EV. I think this is obviously due to the smooth, quiet and clean characteristics of that tech vs the Combustible Engine. Until the range of those engines, not to mention infrastructure is capable of allowing for zilch range anxiety.. not to mention time wasted waiting for a charge.. Cadillac, via Voltec might be the best positioned to soldier onward into that battle. Voltech should be employed thru-out their line-up, but the EV proposition should be one of powerful and lagless capabilities. The Full system horsepower is 449HP and  5.4 seconds. to 60 is strong.. but going directly after Tesla's higher HP and 2.9 second runs wopuld kill any debate of a need for V12s which typically aren't utilized so much for speed, but smoothness. EV nullifies that need

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This touches on why I truly believe that GM should just stick with its LT series engines and kill the intro of the TTV8s it has upcoming

You could argue the Corvette better off with a twin turbo DOHC V8 though, and Cadillac could use one for sure.   If there is a mid-engine Corvette (which should be a mid-engine Cadillac supercar) a high revving DOHC unit would be better there too.  It is possible by 2025 the the Silverado, Sierra, Yukon, Suburban all have a V6 as their big engine, the Camaro SS will be a V6 by then, probably the only V8 Camaro will be a ZL1.  I don't think GM will have a V8 for sale for less than $60-70,000 come 2025.  CAFE just won't allow that.  So if they keep the LT series, it is for Corvette and big Cadillacs, plus it wouldn't parts share with their DOHC V6.  It probably makes more economic sense to have a 4 liter V8 sharing a block with the 2 liter 4 or 3 liter V6.  

 

 

 

 

OK.. I can give U this for 2025, or 9 years away. But what I speak of is 2016.. RIGHT THE f@#k NOW.. when the entire Cadillac range would benefit from an engine that we all kno will not only fit in their cars, but have all the tech and capability of anything that Germany has to offer. 

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smk4565    321

Exotic cars have V12s, there will always be a place for that sound among the supercars. Luxo barges like Rolls and Bentley could easily go EV.

The LT series V8 is good now, but I wouldn't put much money into developing a replacement for them since the next generation Silverado will probably have V6 power. A twin turbo V8 would be good for high end cars the next 10 years, then around 2025 maybe even Corvette is a electric car and that need for a V8 goes away.

The Corvette engine could be useful in the CTS V-sport or CT6. I would like to Cadillac have its own V8, but since they don't have one better to use the Corvette engine than have no V8 at all.

Edited by smk4565

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Suaviloquent    713

There's still a 50 mpg target for CAFE.

 

 

I just don't think anything beyond a V8 will even be viable AT ALL in passenger cars.

 

I think Daimler will make a fully electric Mercedes-Maybach. They may even position it as a top trim, or do they combine Maybach and AMG sub models? Yeah, that one!!! That one!

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smk4565    321

There was talk from within Mercedes of an AMG hybrid around 2020, possibly every AMG model being a hybrid at some point.  There is also rumor of a 1,300 hp hybrid hyper car that weighs under 3,000 lbs under development, but Mercedes denies it.  AMG feels that their customers want a V8 and they want that noise, so I think that will have to stay in play there, but for the regular cars, I could see the plug-ins taking over by 2020.

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balthazar    1,855

The perception problem with Jag using BMW engines (if anyone actually cares about Jag) is that they are competitors

 

I don't think any further explanation is necessary.

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smk4565    321

Audi, Jaguar, and BMW all use the same transmission though.  I don't know if it matters to Jaguar buyers if the engine comes from BMW, there used to be a Range Rover with a BMW V8 in it in the early 2000s.  The exterior styling, interiors and infotainment systems are way different on a BMW and Jaguar.   If you want exclusive engine and transmission in a luxury car though, there is only one place to look.  

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balthazar    1,855

I would suspect they care about proprietary transmissions as much as they do about cylinder count.

 

But some DO see it as 'admitting defeat' on the engineering front.

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balthazar    1,855

BMW consumers don't, but Jag can hardly afford to keep the lights on in dealerships across the U.S..

Some early reports are really panning the F_Pace, saying it's not very compelling at its price/ has too much cheapness.

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Suaviloquent    713

The F-Pace is priced on the low side, and it's kind of a tweener. Too big to be a GLC/X3 size but too small to be a GLE or X5 size.

 

I've been around the new Jaguars a lot. To bring the price at a competitive point and provide the standard 5 years comprehensive warranty, I think they pulled quite a bit of money out of the interiors. Shame, they drive really astoundingly well, and are lightweight cars now.

 

I have no issue with this, BMW engines are probably more reliable, and there's even some exotics like Pagani that delegate the engineering of their engines to someone else, and heck the Ford GT, also an exotic prestige carrier has a lot of work subcontracted out to MultiMatic.

 

It's they only way. I recently heard that FordMoCo and Jaguar LandRover would cooperate over battery technology and suppliers.

 

 

Marchionne wasn't wrong with his principles over why it was so necessary and beneficial when he begged for other automakers to help Fiat save some coin, expect the problem is no one wants Fiat to save some coin, because NO ONE WANTS FIAT!

 

But Jaguar/LandRover are worth saving, I think. I hope they don't cheapen out the XJ. There's some rumours that the neXtJ...(get it? hurr hurr!!! I made a laugh) will be kinda like the Cadillac CT6, it'll be just like a LWB XF with some cosmetic changes and the same downmarket, unworthy of true flagship status interior. But that's just a rumour.

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smk4565    321

Pagani gets their engines from Mercedes-AMG of course.   Aston Martin will get them from there too.  But those brands are far lower volume than Jaguar.  

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Suaviloquent    713

When it comes to performance pedigree in terms of raw numbers, the German car maker engines deliver, and are usually underrated.

 

Now, we live in a world where an Indian automaker invests in its British heritage brand and is now about to seal the deal for collaboration with a German rival.

 

GLOBALIZATION!!! TECHNOLOGY!

 

10255695.jpg

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