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Mercedez Benz News New Trademark Filings Possibly Give A Clue To Mercedes' EV Subbrand

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They are starting now, thus the 4 EVs that will be on sale in the next couple years.  I don't see Cadillac or Lincoln with any electric cars.  Is Cadillac going to build 4 electric cars?   Tesla is a good car because it has zero pollution and is wicked fast.  These are traits of electric cars, that Mercedes can easily copy. What Tesla can't copy is the Mercedes interiors, build quality, etc.  Even though Tesla uses Mercedes switchgear in all their cars.  Tesla might be selling because it is the only came in town, then buyers have to pick between Tesla, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, maybe that isn't such an easy win for Tesla.

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Within the next year and a half, a new BMW 3-Series will be revealed. There will be gas, diesel, hybrid, and the possibility of an all-electric version.

The next 3-Series will use BMW's CLAR (Cluster Architecture) which not only brings forth carbon fiber for certain parts of the vehicle, but it was designed with electric vehicles in mind.

 

^^ THAT'S what I am talking about, creating a platform that enables both without developing a whole entire parallel vehicle.

After Mercedes copies Tesla and starts building luxury EVs, perhaps they can copy BMW and make it happen on a singular platform.

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BMW wants one platform for all.  This is what gets you Rolls-Royces built on a 7-series platform (although they are supposed to get their own aluminum chassis), and how you get 4,400 lb 5-series because they built it on a 7-series platform with 6 inches of wheelbase cut out.    If they put a 70 kWh battery in a 3-series chassis, where does it go?  They'll do it, but they will have to pack batteries under the hood, the floor plan, the trunk, etc.  Even if they still get the 50/50 weight balance, will they have low center of gravity and will they have trunk space?  

 

Oddly enough in a comparison of the Mercedes B-class and the BMW i3, Car and Driver said the i3 was better because the B-class electric drive was just a B-class loaded up with batteries and an electric motor to power the front wheels, while the i3 was lighter, better weight balance, rear drive, and handled better since it was made to be an electric car while the B-class was not.

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BMW wants one platform for all.

Right! Well… they want the next 3-series on one platform, including the EV version. That's how you leverage your model equity into the future by allowing established, segment players the room to morph over to ElectricPropulsion as the market dictates. Rather than split your own buyer pool & diverting your marketing between 2 vehicles going for the same segment.

BMW is doing it the right way.

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Mercedes is on pace to sell 2 million cars this year, Tesla like 50,000. And Tesla has lost money 13 quarters in a row. Mercedes doesn't fear Tesla now they fear what Tesla could be in 2025. And Europe is more green concious than we are here, and they are more likely to buy German. They can keep Tesla as a small player in Europe even if Tesla grows big here.

EV cars sold by Tesla-50,000

EV cars sold by Mercedes-0

Want to try that again?

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Either way.  Daimler is a bigger company than BMW, they do nearly double the revenue.  Some things like autonomous drive technology they develop for the S-class is ending up on Freightliner trucks.  So they get to spread their cost around more.

 

In 2015, Mercedes-Benz Cars did 83.8 billion euros in revenue last year, at 9.5% margin.  BMW Autos group (Mini, BMW, Rolls) did 85.5 billion euros in revenue at a 9.2% margin.  Shockingly close actually.  Mercedes did beat BMW on cars sold 2 million to 1.9 million.

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car.  That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car.  That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it true but by all means, keep telling yourself that Mercedes isn't worried about Tesla. Either way, late to the game.

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EV's cannot be ignored, Too many reports showing the growth in sales and yes while not what petro or diesel sales, the new emissions spec for Europe and the requirements to now sell EVs as a % of sales in Europe is going to force all auto companies to comply.

 

Nissan is now on record as saying they are looking at and will probably offer multiple battery pack options in the Leaf Generation 2. While many are comfortable with 100 miles or less range on a battery pack, they understand that some want more and are looking at having for sure a 200+ pack and possible a 300+ pack as options. This alone Nissan believes would allow them to triple if not quadruple their Leaf sales. If that is true and they did sell 75,000 in the US and 160,000 global for 2015. I do not see any auto company that can ignore the EV auto.

 

One of the Key companies that track sales says the EV's are on target for having sales over 6 million a year by 2024.

 

http://www.navigantresearch.com/research/electric-vehicle-market-forecasts

 

Key interesting note is that this figure could double easily depending on cost of battery packs and range. Both of which have in the last two years dropped considerably in price and grown in capacity for range.

 

Those first to market will win this next battle in the auto industry.

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car.  That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it true but by all means, keep telling yourself that Mercedes isn't worried about Tesla. Either way, late to the game.

Daimler used to own 8% of Tesla but sold it. They know what Tesla is but they aren't going to abandon 2 million sales a year to chase 50-100k electric sales. Mercedes will have 10 plug in hybrids by next year, they have 3 for sale right now, so they offer electric driving already, just not pure EV besides the b-class that no one wants. The 4 EV's are coming and at a good time when the market will want them.

Where is Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, JLR, and the rest of them? They don't even have electric cars in deleopment yet.

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car. That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it true but by all means, keep telling yourself that Mercedes isn't worried about Tesla. Either way, late to the game.
Daimler used to own 8% of Tesla but sold it. They know what Tesla is but they aren't going to abandon 2 million sales a year to chase 50-100k electric sales. Mercedes will have 10 plug in hybrids by next year, they have 3 for sale right now, so they offer electric driving already, just not pure EV besides the b-class that no one wants. The 4 EV's are coming and at a good time when the market will want them.

Where is Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, JLR, and the rest of them? They don't even have electric cars in deleopment yet.

Again, you keep telling yourself that. The fact that they are creating this sub brand says otherwise though. Edited by surreal1272

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car.  That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it true but by all means, keep telling yourself that Mercedes isn't worried about Tesla. Either way, late to the game.

Where is Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, JLR, and the rest of them? They don't even have electric cars in development yet.

 

As far as you know they do not have anything in development, but they very well could. Remember this is a company that caught the whole world with their pants down when they showed off the BOLT and announced it going into production. The BOLT forced Tesla's hand in regards to the T3 and it also is forcing all auto companies to move forward with an EV.

 

Cadillac very well could have a whole group of EV's on the drawing board that you and the rest of us know nothing about. 

 

MB is reacting to the fact that Tesla S is making inroads into their top end line of auto's. More and more people buy a Tesla over an S model from MB.

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car. That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it true but by all means, keep telling yourself that Mercedes isn't worried about Tesla. Either way, late to the game.
Daimler used to own 8% of Tesla but sold it. They know what Tesla is but they aren't going to abandon 2 million sales a year to chase 50-100k electric sales. Mercedes will have 10 plug in hybrids by next year, they have 3 for sale right now, so they offer electric driving already, just not pure EV besides the b-class that no one wants. The 4 EV's are coming and at a good time when the market will want them.

Where is Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, JLR, and the rest of them? They don't even have electric cars in deleopment yet.

Again, you keep telling yourself that. The fact that they are creating this sub brand says otherwise though.

 

And what is Cadillac's response to Tesla?  Tesla sales will surpass Cadillac by 2020 at the current rate.

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car.  That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it true but by all means, keep telling yourself that Mercedes isn't worried about Tesla. Either way, late to the game.

Where is Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, JLR, and the rest of them? They don't even have electric cars in development yet.

 

As far as you know they do not have anything in development, but they very well could. Remember this is a company that caught the whole world with their pants down when they showed off the BOLT and announced it going into production. The BOLT forced Tesla's hand in regards to the T3 and it also is forcing all auto companies to move forward with an EV.

 

Cadillac very well could have a whole group of EV's on the drawing board that you and the rest of us know nothing about. 

 

MB is reacting to the fact that Tesla S is making inroads into their top end line of auto's. More and more people buy a Tesla over an S model from MB.

 

Tesla Model S sold 50,300 units worldwide in 2015.  The S-class was close to 100,000 the past 2 years.   Tesla also has the only electric performance car on the market, what happens when there are 5 cars in that segment?  I also read the average transaction price of a Model S is $79,000 vs $106,000 for an S-class, so we have a bit of a gap there.

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car.  That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it true but by all means, keep telling yourself that Mercedes isn't worried about Tesla. Either way, late to the game.

Where is Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, JLR, and the rest of them? They don't even have electric cars in development yet.

As far as you know they do not have anything in development, but they very well could. Remember this is a company that caught the whole world with their pants down when they showed off the BOLT and announced it going into production. The BOLT forced Tesla's hand in regards to the T3 and it also is forcing all auto companies to move forward with an EV.

 

Cadillac very well could have a whole group of EV's on the drawing board that you and the rest of us know nothing about. 

 

MB is reacting to the fact that Tesla S is making inroads into their top end line of auto's. More and more people buy a Tesla over an S model from MB.

Tesla Model S sold 50,300 units worldwide in 2015.  The S-class was close to 100,000 the past 2 years.   Tesla also has the only electric performance car on the market, what happens when there are 5 cars in that segment?  I also read the average transaction price of a Model S is $79,000 vs $106,000 for an S-class, so we have a bit of a gap there.

You do understand the distinction that he made when he said that more and more people are buying the Tesla right? It doesn't mean Tesla sold more but more people are now picking it over the S Class.

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Mercedes sold about 2,000 B-class electric cars between Europe and USA last year. They aren't at zero, but they bascillay just have a compliance car.  That is why they are making more, but it isn't like Mercedes can spend all their time and resources worrying about a company that sells 50,000 cars a year when BMW and Audi are selling 2 million, they still have to build what the market is buying and the market isn't buying electric cars in big quantities yet.

You keep telling yourself that. Doesn't make it true but by all means, keep telling yourself that Mercedes isn't worried about Tesla. Either way, late to the game.

Where is Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, JLR, and the rest of them? They don't even have electric cars in development yet.

 

As far as you know they do not have anything in development, but they very well could. Remember this is a company that caught the whole world with their pants down when they showed off the BOLT and announced it going into production. The BOLT forced Tesla's hand in regards to the T3 and it also is forcing all auto companies to move forward with an EV.

 

Cadillac very well could have a whole group of EV's on the drawing board that you and the rest of us know nothing about. 

 

MB is reacting to the fact that Tesla S is making inroads into their top end line of auto's. More and more people buy a Tesla over an S model from MB.

 

Tesla Model S sold 50,300 units worldwide in 2015.  The S-class was close to 100,000 the past 2 years.   Tesla also has the only electric performance car on the market, what happens when there are 5 cars in that segment?  I also read the average transaction price of a Model S is $79,000 vs $106,000 for an S-class, so we have a bit of a gap there.

 

True but then Tesla is not heavily discounting their cars like MB does with the S-class nor have I found a Tesla S in private car rental service. I find many S-class auto's being used as taxis, aka private auto rental. I am willing to bet that half of the S-class sales are in use as a private chauffeur service to the public around the world. Much like how MB uses the E-class as the core taxis of Europe which accounts for their large sales numbers.

 

No matter what all this is good for everyone, but Surreal is correct, more private owners are choosing a Tesla over the S-class as something special. S-class had this to themselves, but no more. More and more options are now available and people love the quiet ride of the Tesla. This is another reason the EVs will grow in popularity as battery density grows for longer range.

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And Mercedes is about to take a big bite out of the Model S and Model X sales. I happen to like Tesla, but they don't make any money. At some point they have to turn a profit.

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And Mercedes is about to take a big bite out of the Model S and Model X sales. I happen to like Tesla, but they don't make any money. At some point they have to turn a profit.

I agree with the have to turn a profit. I have mixed emotions about your big bite statement. A pure EV S-class will help pull in the few that left for Tesla, but with everyone bringing EV's out I have to wonder how big a bite MB can get now. This will boil down to who brings out what when and what options.

 

I will say this, regardless of the luxury brand, they better plan to option like Tesla. If you do not have RWD/AWD and multiple battery options as well as their own version of Ludacris mode, you're bringing a knife to a gunfight.

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S-class is old school, Tesla is new school.  S-class even though it is loaded with technology has classic styling in and out and is a big rear drive sedan with a long hood and V8 and V12 power.  It is kind of a throwback vehicle while most cars got smaller bodies and smaller engines, the S-class has hung around as the classic big sedan.  Tesla Model S is the size of a CTS with a 20 inch touch screen and a minimalist interior, it has a different appeal.

 

My guess is the Mercedes electric cars have a more futuristic and techy interior, to make it more appealing to the type of people that want electric cars.

 

Little is know about these cars, but Mercedes wants up to 310 mile range, and they do favor a 2 motor set up and they are working on electric motors that make up to 540 hp.  They are also pretty big on active aero to extend range and think they can get a .19 cD.   I don't think these cars will disappoint on speed or range.  I am sure they'll have a 200 mile, 300 hp sort of level for the small crossover, obviously they aren't putting 540 hp in all of these, not everyone needs or is willing to pay for that kind of power.

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S-class U.S. sales thru June : 8,493.

Model S U.S. sales thru June : 12,090 

 

Question I have is, the 'techies' are flocking to Tesla because it's 'new school'. 
Mercedes s-class, with it's dated styling & stand-up hood ornament, is decidedly old school. I don't see the MB taking sales away from Tesla, just splintering the (dropping) s-class sales. But supposedly MB is bringing out a parallel model, so whatever sales there are going to that, not the dropping S-class… and, if all it does is split the s-class buyer pool, "S-class" sales are going to drop even faster. 
That's why I say the only long-term plan is to engineer a platform that can handle both, IC and EP.

Edited by balthazar

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We don't know what the electric Mercedes will cost.  It might be cheaper than the S-class and not really compete with it.  I think they should do an S450 with the 360 hp bi-turbo V6, they use that engine in the SL and GLS, it would give them a S-class starting around $88,000 which would help compete with the 6 cylinder A8 and 7-series, that is a way to boost S-class sales while hurting the 7-series.

 

On to Tesla, the Model S can be leased for $667 a month with $6,362 the S550 base model lease is $1,149 a month for 36 months with $6,943 due at signing.   Both are 10,000 miles a year.  Since the S-class is $500 a month more, I wonder why the Tesla outsells it.

 

If you want to buy a Tesla, base price is $66,000 - $7,500 tax credit, - $2,000 Pennsylvania incentive for me + $1,200 destination = $58,700.    That is starting $40,000 below the S-class.   A better comparison would be E-class to Model S, the E-class is closer in size and price.

 

And for the record, if I couldn't have a Mercedes, Tesla would be my 2nd choice for an auto brand.  I am not anti Tesla, I like Tesla, I like the EV driving idea a lot.  Most people here bash EV's because they say the range is too low or no one will buy a 200 mile range car, but I like electric cars, I am excited for the EV take over.

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It seems there is a new CLS coming in 2018, but I think this is a good time to drop the CLS and put the electric car in that $70,000-100,000 price range and make it look like a 4 door coupe, much like the IAA concept car.  The E-class has a full range of body styles and engines, CLS buyers can go to the E-class or the electric car.

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Tesla does not have one of these: 

 

mercedes-maybach-vision-6.jpg?itok=LDblH

 

Full reveal and details Thursday.  They have to find a way to get this to production.

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