Measuring Tesla's Success or Failure

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Tesla has yet to be a profitable company.  They'll get there someday, but that looks to still be a year to 3 years away. 

If Tesla can get a small catalog of models (let's stick with 'S''3''X''Y' for right now), vastly increase the charging network and sit on those models until they pay down some of their capital improvements, they may show a profit in 5 years. But if they continue to steady grow the catalog before the existing (4) models are in the black (IE: the pickup & the semi), it will take a lot longer than that.

Hey! the pickup could be the 'B', the semi could be the 'I', then all they need is 'T, C & H' models.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, balthazar said:

If Tesla can get a small catalog of models (let's stick with 'S''3''X''Y' for right now), vastly increase the charging network and sit on those models until they pay down some of their capital improvements, they may show a profit in 5 years. But if they continue to steady grow the catalog before the existing (4) models are in the black (IE: the pickup & the semi), it will take a lot longer than that.

Hey! the pickup could be the 'B', the semi could be the 'I', then all they need is 'T, C & H' models.

Tesla has more irons in the fire than just automotive now though.  They have SolarCity as well which seems to be turning a profit.  Currently, it is only a small percentage of Tesla's revenues, but it doubled those revenues in a single quarter. 

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

Tesla has more irons in the fire than just automotive now though.  They have SolarCity as well which seems to be turning a profit.  Currently, it is only a small percentage of Tesla's revenues, but it doubled those revenues in a single quarter. 

And the price of solar keeps dropping...

[David]

47 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Let's bear in mind that Both GM and Tesla are trying to Walk through the Front door and do the right thing at least 85 percent of the time.

Most American companies are not nearly so ethical. I went to buy a table saw blade the other day at my favorite woodworking store...blades made in Mexico, France, Italy, Germany, China, Japan, and Taiwan...but zero made in the USA.

The problem of outsourcing is much larger than just one car maker.

Also, when we export jobs, everyone's wages fall...it is not a zero sum game, but in general, if we don't produce anything, we have no real hard capital of sorts to buy items.

So very true,

I will take German or Japan blades over especially China and Italy. Wish there were American suppliers at the local hardware store. 

http://www.americansawandproducts.com/

This company does make outstanding blades if you do not mind ordering them online.

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If Tesla can get a small catalog of models (let's stick with 'S''3''X''Y' for right now), vastly increase the charging network and sit on those models until they pay down some of their capital improvements, they may show a profit in 5 years. But if they continue to steady grow the catalog before the existing (4) models are in the black (IE: the pickup & the semi), it will take a lot longer than that.

Hey! the pickup could be the 'B', the semi could be the 'I', then all they need is 'T, C & H' models.

Take a page out of Fords original play book?  

[A Horse With No Name]

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So very true,

I will take German or Japan blades over especially China and Italy. Wish there were American suppliers at the local hardware store. 

http://www.americansawandproducts.com/

This company does make outstanding blades if you do not mind ordering them online.

Take a page out of Fords original play book?  

The American sawmill products page looks good but I do not know if they sell blades for a standard 10 inch Delta Unisaw (made in Pittsburgh, not Taiwan!) will call and find out.

Thankfully I can still get band saw blades made in the USA...and Whiteside tooling is made 100 percent in the USA and performs just freaking flawlessly.

http://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/

This company quite frankly exemplified everything that is right about America IMHO.

[balthazar]

44 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Tesla has more irons in the fire than just automotive now though.  They have SolarCity as well which seems to be turning a profit.  Currently, it is only a small percentage of Tesla's revenues, but it doubled those revenues in a single quarter. 

I don't know the particulars here- is not SolarCity a legally separate entity, or is it a subsidiary/division?

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

I don't know the particulars here- is not SolarCity a legally separate entity, or is it a subsidiary/division?

As for the strict legal structure, I couldn't tell you.  However, Tesla purchased them and is including SolarCity in its quarterly and annual reports now.  It is reporting on assets of solar equipment purchased for future leasing and it is reporting revenues from electrical generation.  Those are in the totals in the Q1 Report I posted earlier today. 

I assume they're fully financially merged at this point. 

[A Horse With No Name]

11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

As for the strict legal structure, I couldn't tell you.  However, Tesla purchased them and is including SolarCity in its quarterly and annual reports now.  It is reporting on assets of solar equipment purchased for future leasing and it is reporting revenues from electrical generation.  Those are in the totals in the Q1 Report I posted earlier today. 

I assume they're fully financially merged at this point. 

I am pretty sure they are fully merged, actually.

[balthazar]

According to Wiki, SolarCity was started by 2 brothers, who are also cousins to Musk. Musk help start the company & was the chairman. Tesla bought SC on 08.01.16 for $2.6B., so Tesla, Inc is the parent Co. & SC is wholly owned.

[Cmicasa the Great]

8 hours ago, FAPTurbo said:

haha okay, gm required acts of congress and two presidents to manage to stay afloat, turf enormous debts and hang employees out to dry...

But still.. over 100 years of business.. GM should have gotten $50 Billion without having to pay it back. Shit. Look at VW. For its entire existence its been partially Gov't owned. If U don't think that over the years it hasn't gotten gov't infused moneys then U are a dullard. 20% of the company is owned by Germany.. and another 17% owned by the Gov't of Qatar

Toyota??? Betcha ass they get help from the Japanese gov. Hyundai.. Yup. S. Korea knows whats up.

Even Ford got Gov't money via the DOE.. Billions.. $6 Billion.. LINK MOFO still owed. No mention of that by U..

And Nissan.. Nissan.. a French/Japanese company got $1.6 Billion.. 

and your precious Tesla.. They were loaned $500 Mill. If they are no making no money.. how the hell did they pay it back??? Will they ever? 

[A Horse With No Name]

43 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

But still.. over 100 years of business.. GM should have gotten $50 Billion without having to pay it back. Shit. Look at VW. For its entire existence its been partially Gov't owned. If U don't think that over the years it hasn't gotten gov't infused moneys then U are a dullard. 20% of the company is owned by Germany.. and another 17% owned by the Gov't of Qatar

Toyota??? Betcha ass they get help from the Japanese gov. Hyundai.. Yup. S. Korea knows whats up.

Even Ford got Gov't money via the DOE.. Billions.. $6 Billion.. LINK MOFO still owed. No mention of that by U..

And Nissan.. Nissan.. a French/Japanese company got $1.6 Billion.. 

and your precious Tesla.. They were loaned $500 Mill. If they are no making no money.. how the hell did they pay it back??? Will they ever? 

Actually not being given subsidy money has made them stronger IMHO.  They did it on their own when no one else did.