avant1963

Lutz's perfect summation of Toyota

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and why the domestics failed in the past 20 years. They tried to make cars just as bland and boring as Toyota and were always 2 generations behind them. It seems that they have finaly woken up.

"There's no doubt that a design-driven philosophy is the only one that will work," he said.

"People who are not sensitive to design, people who don't care about vehicles, people who view a vehicle as an appliance, they just default to Toyota. We will never win that one."

http://yahoo.reuters.com/stocks/QuoteCompa...bol=GM.N&rpc=44

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toyota seems to be his make fun of company right now. It seems to be the company more and more people are enjoying making fun of.

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This Bob Lutz quote reminds me of a commercial I saw on TV several months ago. It showed a guy going to his refrigirator and somthing bad happened to it (can't remember what), then the tag line of the commercial was somthing on the line of "Don't you wish Toyota made more than cars". Toyota is and has been for a while the "practical" choice for a vehicle. Well, there are MANY people left in this country that are true Americans, and walk down a path of emotion and adventure. GM needs to tap these people by making cars that dosen't give a $%#^ about what the Japanese, Koreans, and Germans make. GM needs to make their own rules again and force the other makers to make the tough decision to jump into the ring with the giant.

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A good read. It sounds as if the Camaro is approved by GM itself, but the board has simply not done so yet.

Lutz said GM had "several" upcoming but still unannounced models that had emerged from its designers in a departure from past GM practice that would give the cars a more emotional connection to consumers.

Now hopefully these cars get approval. I wonder how many of these are Zeta models too.

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toyota seems to be his make fun of company right now.  It seems to be the company more and more people are enjoying making fun of.

People tend to criticize and poke fun at the dominant company in asegment. And rightly so as its not easy to be the big dog - everyone is out to claim how much better they are than you.

In this case, people are just getting practice for the time when Toyota becomes the world's largest auto manufacturer.

Maybe this would be good for GM - get the spotlight off us and maybe the auto rags will give us a fair shake...

B.

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People tend to criticize and poke fun at the dominant company in asegment. And rightly so as its not easy to be the big dog - everyone is out to claim how much better they are than you.

In this case, people are just getting practice for the time when Toyota becomes the world's largest auto manufacturer.

Maybe this would be good for GM - get the spotlight off us and maybe the auto rags will give us a fair shake...

B.

I think a big problem is there are quite a few people in the USA (and media) that want's to see the USA fail. Why, I don't know. So I think when Toyota reaches #1, everybody will talk about HOW Toyota is number one, and why GM is not. As I said earlier in this thread though, there are still many true Americans left that will embrace GM and their rebound.

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Guest Josh

toyota seems to be his make fun of company right now.  It seems to be the company more and more people are enjoying making fun of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lutz has been poking fun at Toyota for years. The first time I remember was the C6 debut when we had a conversation with two other people.

That was good times.

Lutz is and will be the driving force behind GM's turnaround.

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Lutz has been poking fun at Toyota for years. The first time I remember was the C6 debut when we had a conversation with two other people.

That was good times.

Lutz is and will be the driving force behind GM's turnaround.

not to mention public perception

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Here's a quote that makes the point I've made several times recently:

"Why should we give your future products to statisticians who troll through the past two years of market trends as opposed to letting our creative people take the lead," Lutz said.

It tells me Lutz gets it.

Edited by ellives

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Unfortunately this is not a "car" thing. It's found in many businesses and most of them experience the same thing GM is going through. When companies lose money the first thing people thing is the problem is a finance problem. Shows you how simple-minded people are for the most part.

How is it ,that so many car guys get this ( cars being design driven), and so many car executives DO NOT!!!!!!!!!

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It's because corporations aren't run by the "makers." Rather, they're run by pure business-types who don't know anything about product. Their training is finance and/or accounting, or some other MBA specialty. So their instinctive reaction isn't "let's build better cars," it's "let's get better commercials." Or "let's get creative with the money." Car companies produce definitive cars when visionary car guys who happen to have business sense are in charge. Same goes for technology companies.

Disclaimer: I am a finance guy, though not one in management.

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Part of the problems with multi-nationals in general is that nobody is really accountable. Face it, any board member can up and quit, get a similar job somewhere else. They don't really have any vested interest. And they sometimes sit on many boards at once, which can create conflicts - at the very least they don't care so much because their bread is being buttered by more than one company. The Henry Fords and Walter Chryslers OWNED the company. Their name was on the door.

The way companies are bought and sold today, like loaves of bread. Maximizing shareholder value and doing what is best for the company is rarely the same thing. Corporations are becoming increasingly complex. What is needed are good communicators/organizers at the top. Those who know their own limitations, aren't afraid to delegate and know how to recognize and hire top talent.

Bad example, but look at Madonna: Is she talented? Not really, but she is a smart business woman. She surrounds herself with top talent and checks her ego at the door. She has stayed at the top of her game, while many others (Jackson?) have fizzled and burned.

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Proof that Toyota is a completely un-original company is their new summer blowout commercial. If you havent seen it let me describe it for you:

There is a shot of a CAR-CARRIER transporting all the new Toyotas to the dealearship. On the we the way people are stopping to look as it drives through the countryside.

Does this sound familiar somehow? :angry: Hmm...

Edited by Ultra Magnus

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toyota seems to be his make fun of company right now.  It seems to be the company more and more people are enjoying making fun of.

It's also the company that will stop at nothing for the top spot, makes the blandest, ugliest and most "non car guy" boring designs on the planet too.

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I whole-heartedly agree... leave the appliances to Toyota.

Pontiac = all RWD & RWD-biased AWD

Chevy = muscle, trucks & family sedans

Buick = mostly RWD upscale cars between Chevy & Caddy

Caddy = Go for Bently's throat wiht the SIXTEEN...

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Both types of people are needed in a car company, the car guys to keep the cool products coming and the beancounters to handle the finacial matters.

.... which is what brought you Toyota Motor Company.

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Toyota hasn't been making any cool cars as of late...  <_<

thats not their style any more, if it ever was to begin with...thats up to scion and lexus now. like the rx or rf or some sh*t. the lexus supercar concept. talk about brass ones, theyre just hanging out there. thank you, but no thank you.

you just build the appliances well take care of the cars. (well meaning almost anyone else .) even hyundai has more spunk in them, and thats not saying all that much. lets let toyota concentrate on the smll econoboxes and everyone else can focus on cars that matter. not just transortation.

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thankyou for sharing that great article. this is why i like lutz so much and hope he'll be around for a while.

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"People who are not sensitive to design, people who don't care about vehicles, people who view a vehicle as an appliance, they just default to Toyota.

I thought they defaulted to Saturn. :lol:

Lutz is only half right. But it is a good distraction technique. The real reason GM isn't competitive in that market (despite their continued attempts at it) is that they aren't competitive on quality and resale value. Of course if a consumer has to choose between two bland choices they will take the one with better resale and quality.

The flip side is that you can make a wild looking car like the 300 that will sell well, but you also have to deliver the quality and the resale value. Ask anyone who owns a 300 how many electrical problems they've had (it is a Mercedes after all!).

Don't make people choose between quality and resale or cutting edge design. Stop whining and making excuses and give them the whole package!

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Quality?? Buicks are only second in quality to only ONE japanese nameplate and that's Lexus.

That's Buick. Where is every other GM nameplate on the quality ladder? LTB51, I am guessing, almost meant preceived quality. Look at the dash design of the Aura and compare it to the Accord, Camry or Fusion. The materials could very well possibly be there but the dash looks like it was slapped together and that affects how a customer thinks about the car.

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I thought they defaulted to Saturn.  :lol:

Hilarious

Lutz is only half right.  But it is a good distraction technique.  The real reason GM isn't competitive in that market (despite their continued attempts at it) is that they aren't competitive on quality and resale value.  Of course if a consumer has to choose between two bland choices they will take the one with better resale and quality.

You're confused and simple minded. Resale value is a complex issue and today probably has more to do with perception and risk avoidance than anything else. At one time Toyota had a marked lead in quality. This is not the case any longer. Unfortunately however for GM, the cat is out of the bag and Toyota will need to drop the ball somehow to provide a reason for the "safe" buyers to switch from Toyota to GM. Not likely. This means GM has to build products that are standouts that will motivate buyers to take some risk by buying GM. This is not something GM has done well.

To make a general statement that GM is not competitive on quality is either ignorant or dishonest and the later comments about Buick and quality bear this out.

The flip side is that you can make a wild looking car like the 300 that will sell well, but you also have to deliver the quality and the resale value.  Ask anyone who owns a 300 how many electrical problems they've had (it is a Mercedes after all!).

Don't make people choose between quality and resale or cutting edge design.  Stop whining and making excuses and give them the whole package!

This statement supports my earlier contention. Chrysler built a product that was a standout and people were motivated to take a risk. It may turn out as you suggest with the electrical problems, that customers are not happy and will switch to something more reliable. Nevertheless this example demonstrates what GM must do to win customers back.

I really don't understand what you mean when you say "deliver... resale value." How does one do this? Buick and Cadillac are both quality products yet their resale value is terrible. Interestingly I take advantage of this phenomena by buying late model used Cadillacs at a fraction of their original sticker. Of course this is not a way for GM to survive so it must be solved... somehow. With the quality of the product as a given (it HAS to be in today's market) the equation then becomes all about product and exciting product such as the 300. I expect GM has this part of the equation in the pipeline.

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