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6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Well, this is certainly interesting and an about face for some in the Dodge crowd.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/dodge-launch-worlds-first-electric-132500545.html2097327637_ScreenShot2021-07-08at10_14_06AM.thumb.png.80162d6cef4c1c5304be803c19172919.png

Very cool, thanks for catching this. This is AWESOME, I see they also have a video.

 

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5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Michael Jordan Reaction GIF

Dodge.JPG

I will have a story today covering the Stellantis EV day release, some great info, but I have to say after watching this video, I am very excited for An American eMuscle Dodge Charger and Challenger. AWD seems to be clear in this screen capture of the video.

image.png

The Germans should be scared as the ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE is coming with POWER to Spare!

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43 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Edited comment

Platforms3.JPG

Platforms4.JPG

Let me just say that if they manage to give an EV Challenger 500 miles of range, I am selling some organs for it. I only need one kidney.

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Posted (edited)

Id want to buy a Hellcat V8 Challenger BEFORE the EV version would come out though...   

But Id ALSO buy the EV version too so Id have both in my garage.  

All I have to do is dream....maybe it'll come true one day... 

 

And I just HAVE to post Heart's dream song too...

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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^^^ 

1970 Challenger 440

1969 Charger Hemi

2015-2021 Challenger Hellcat

1969 Plymouth Roadrunner Hemi or 440 

2024 Challenger EV

2024 Charger EV

And THAT would complete the Mopar portion of my garage.

No! Wait!

1997 Dodge Viper GTS

1955 Chrysler 300

1958 Plymouth Fury

1994 Dodge Viper RT/10

and there is more...

 

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Seems Switzerland in just a little over a year has made a rapid change from ICE to BEV\PHEV\Hybrid with a 38.8% market share. 

  • Bev = 9.9%
  • PHEV = 8.3%
  • Hybrid = 20.6%

Statistics - Swiss eMobility (swiss-emobility.ch)

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Seems Rivian due to the Pandemic, parts delays, and a desire to NOT SHIP BETA auto's to customers much like Tesla has done has pushed deliveries of the R1T truck to September from July according to this story which is based on a letter sent to reservation holders by CEO RJ.

Rivian R1T deliveries delayed to September: If it’s first with an electric pickup, who’s next? (greencarreports.com)

Seems the ultimate jab at Tesla with this part quoted from the story.

Rivian has one production line intended for its R1T pickup and R1S SUV, and another for its commercial vans. Scaringe noted that the company has produced hundreds of vehicles for validation purposes. In what appeared to be a jab to Tesla, which is known for delivering “beta” cars that aren’t fully fleshed-out, he wrote: “I have been asked why we aren’t delivering those vehicles or why we continue to test rather than deliver. We believe it is critical to both our long-term success and your ultimate satisfaction that the quality and robustness of our launch products truly sets the tone for what to expect from us as a brand.”

Full letter is included in the link below.

Rivian delays deliveries of its R1T electric pickup truck to September - Electrek

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Read elsewhere that Q2 2021 BE sales reached a tick over 110,000 for the quarter. 
This was against the total Q2 vehicle sales of 4,412,737 units; a market share of 2.0%. 
(Hybrids are outside the BE number.)

Edited by balthazar
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Lots going on in the BEV arena and here is the run down on all the changes.

BYD in China delivered 40,116 plug-in electric auto's for the month of June a new record for auto's of this type.

China: BYD Plug-In Electric Car Sales Hit New Record In June 2021 (insideevs.com)

Rivian has anounced it is searching for a second North American manufacturing plant to produce batteries and expand production of their Truck/SUV auto's.

Rivian Electric Truck Startup Seeking Location For 2nd US Factory (insideevs.com)

VW is ramping up sales as the ID.4 does well and now VW releases the ID.6 twins into the market.

Volkswagen ID.6 Duo (X And CROZZ) Enter Chinese Market (insideevs.com)

image.png

To speed up change over, it is some times important to just buy an existing company than to retool, build and test your own motors. Mercedes has done this by buying an electric motor company to speed up the change over form ICE to pure BEV by 2030.

Charged EVs | Mercedes-Benz acquires motor technology firm YASA - Charged EVs

New Honda CEO has confirmed Honda will become a pure BEV company globally by 2040.

Charged EVs | New CEO confirms Honda will go all-electric by 2040 - Charged EVs

Mercedes has announced their new updated plans to go all electric ending ICE auto's by 2030.

21C0371_003.jpg

Mercedes-Benz prepares to go all-electric - Daimler Global Media Site

  • All newly launched architectures will be electric-only from 2025 onwards.
  • In 2025 Mercedes-Benz will launch three electric-only architectures.
  • Mercedes-Benz will be ready to go all electric at the end of the decade, where market conditions allow.
  • Mercedes-Benz to install battery cell capacity of more than 200 Gigawatt hours with partners, plans for eight Gigafactories.
  • New partnerships for development and production of battery cells in Europe.
  • Efficiency of electric drivetrains to be enhanced through vertical integration and the acquisition of YASA, a specialist in ultra-high performance axial flux motors.
  • Plug & Charge to introduce seamless charging without extra steps needed for authentication and payment. Mercedes me Charge to have more than 530,000 AC and DC charging points worldwide.
  • Acceleration of electrification ramp-up marks a radical shift in capital allocation.
  • Mercedes-Benz is committed to its margin targets – also in a BEV-world.

This change is based on the fact that going into 2020 Mercedes figured global BEV sales of 25% by 2025, that has now changed to 50% global BEV sales by 2025 and 100% BEV sales starting in 2030. R&D will drop by 80% for ICE and plug-in hybrid by 2026 as they focus 100% of company resources on BEV after that. Mercedes states that their margins will be similar to ICE by 2026 as Mercedes invests $40 billion Euro's between 2022 to 2030 for this change over to BEV portfolio.

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A snippet from recent MT article about the Mercedes Benz EQS.

"The EQS580's dual motors combine for 516 hp and 631 lb-ft of torque—with the rear motor being the same 329-hp, 419-lb-ft unit used in the EQS450+—and Mercedes says it'll reach 60 mph in 4.1 seconds. That's quick for something so large, but that 4.1 seconds is nearly twice as long as it'll take a Tesla Model S Plaid to reach the same speed. The EQS450+ moves more deliberately still, needing a claimed 5.9 seconds to reach 60."

 

 

So, are 0-60 times still important? Asking for a friend who insists that Tesla's 0-60 times are what makes them so great.

 

Source:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-electric-luxury-car-first-drive-review/

Edited by surreal1272
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But all of the SAVINGS!

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

"One of the pitches we hear often on the switch to EV ownership is that electric vehicles are cheaper to maintain. But, as we close in on 40,000 miles in a Tesla Model 3, the actual savings in service costs is turning out to be quite minimal.

Sure, the Model 3 needs no oil changes, which in theory should save us significant cost. However, the Model 3's requirement that we lubricate the brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles—something specified for areas that use road salt in the winter months—has cost nearly as much, totaling $432 for three such services thus far, which often also include a tire rotation. Although that's less than the $539 we spent on maintenance for our BMW M340i or the $728 for our Kia Telluride, that savings works out to between $6 and $15 a month over the course of our nearly two years of ownership, which would be barely noticeable in an owner's budget."

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^ This has been reasonably established.

BEV fans have trumpeted 'like, no maintenance costs!!' then '80% less maintenance', yet the municipal cost analysis showed BE's cost MORE to maintain, and that chart David posted the other day showed maintenance costs to be nearly equal. Now we have this cost comparison. BEV fans will still laugh/dismiss these data sets.

The early spin was advertising schlock, and that was obvious. Rabid fans will slurp that up as if they've never cast a 'critical thinking eye' on automotive advertising before, when the logical & prudent approach is; let's see what ACTUALLY happens.

The #1 problem is still cost disparity, the bulk of which is on the Monroney sticker.

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14 hours ago, balthazar said:

BEV fans will still laugh/dismiss these data sets.

And diehard ICE fans do the same thing from the other side. Not exactly a convincing argument. That ccap article also covers the issue with Tesla, that does not exist with the mainstream competition like GM and Ford. By all means though, ignore that elephant in the room though.

 

"And, since Tesla owns all of its service centers and maintains tight control over its parts, there are fewer options to shop around for service in cases like these than for most other cars."

 

The simple solution there are 3rd party options and service, just like with ICE. 

 

I would also like to see this chart you quote from David as I can't seem to find it. @David?

Edited by surreal1272
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On 7/29/2021 at 2:16 PM, balthazar said:

^ This has been reasonably established.

BEV fans have trumpeted 'like, no maintenance costs!!' then '80% less maintenance', yet the municipal cost analysis showed BE's cost MORE to maintain, and that chart David posted the other day showed maintenance costs to be nearly equal. Now we have this cost comparison. BEV fans will still laugh/dismiss these data sets.

The early spin was advertising schlock, and that was obvious. Rabid fans will slurp that up as if they've never cast a 'critical thinking eye' on automotive advertising before, when the logical & prudent approach is; let's see what ACTUALLY happens.

The #1 problem is still cost disparity, the bulk of which is on the Monroney sticker.

Do you remember which thread I had posted the chart and link in related to what you are talking about? Been a crazy week and I honestly do not remember.

11 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I would also like to see this chart you quote from David as I can't seem to find it. @David?

Looking around to see which thread I posted in with a chart and link on maintenance. Hopefully Balthazar will remember.

I think it was based on this post about a study on cost and maintenance / ownership.

 

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Interesting that while battery cells have been dropping in cost every year, now assembly is being looked at as another place to drop costs and it seems laser connection of cells strung together can be done at a much lower cost.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/laser-bonding-can-cut-battery-assembly-cost-by-50-whitepaper/

 

 

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13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I would also like to see this chart you quote from David as I can't seem to find it.

I apparently mis-interpreted the chart. I believe it is showing the quantified emissions associated with maintenance, not necessarily the cost. How (or why) they tabulated that I have no idea. 

Screen Shot 2021-07-30 at 9.04.36 AM.png

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ Yet Tesla is raising prices monthly despite these claimed lower costs…

Good thing they are no longer the only EV player in town because their constant price jumps are just dumb beyond words. 

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9 hours ago, balthazar said:

I apparently mis-interpreted the chart. I believe it is showing the quantified emissions associated with maintenance, not necessarily the cost. How (or why) they tabulated that I have no idea. 

Screen Shot 2021-07-30 at 9.04.36 AM.png

That graph takes some translating but from what I’ve seen from multiple articles on this is that the biggest issue with EV vs. ICE is the up front cost, ie EVs cost more to buy. Aside from that, there is no comparison when it comes to maintenance costs (again, Tesla’s stupid prices not withstanding). 

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13 hours ago, balthazar said:

With a tried & true Turbo HydraMatic 400 3-spd, this rig is solid in the 8's

Screen Shot 2021-07-30 at 6.56.20 PM.png

That's a novelty for drag racing, though...not a real world daily driver type car like the Model S or Taycan. 

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