oldshurst442

Chevy SS We dont get it up here in Canada...Bong is Canadian living in Alberta. Im Canadian living in Quebec. We both dont have access to it. I could just as easily put this up and it becomes a moot point real fast since we both dont have access to that either. (I know you know, its just for the dramatic effect...the one on the left (Edit: the one on the right....it would be on your left )is the Chevy SS in Aussie land) Which reminds me... Even though it may not be to his royal pain in the ass majesty's type of car he is looking for... GM has no answer to this one either... The Taurus might be a bloated pig, the SHO version makes it into a mean wild boar. "Simple as that. C'mon guys-look past the brand bias." Follow your own advice, mate.

Tuned by Corvette (handling by Lotus comes to mind) I like the way that sounds. It would be great to actually have other Chevy or even Buick products to be tuned by Corvette. I think that is a very marketable strategy.

"They're biased in favor of FUN PRODUCT" So are you saying the GT350 is more fun than the Vette? Because it seems to me that you have waved the white flag...in accepting the fact that car mags have hidden agendas.... So....right now you have 0 wins and 2 loses. 1st loss: The GT350 is more fun than the Vette because car mags are biased of fun product because CarandDriver's comparo, the GT350 won. 2nd loss: YOU even admitted that car mags are biased....you like to change the goal posts.... And right now GM has more fun product than Ford. Simple as that." Your 3rd loss is coming right up... Ford versus Chevy Mustang versus Camaro (and Vette by me-but still a Chevy) Is now a whine-fest by YOU changing the goal posts to FoMoCo versus GM OK....No problem....Im comfy with that too...as Ford does not need RWD and V Series Cadillacs to compete in this.... Ford Fiesta in ST and RS (to come in 2017 I believe) trims Focus ST and RS trims Fusion Sport...with 325 HP and 350 FT/LBS torque under the hood, I reckon she will be one fun ride... Ford Raptor A different kind of fun. Fun non-the-less. I aint doing Mustang as Camaro is there and no GT as the Vette is there. These are all vehicles that GM has no answer for....I know you will play the Cadillac card....That would be ATS and CTS....in V trims too...that makes 4 models... Id say FoMoCo is on EQUAL footing in the "fun" department with GM... Poor Bong....lets see where all this ignition fiasco leads us and hopefully it wont cost too much so more Cadillac V trimmed cars keep on coming, because if GM gets a VW kinda fine, say good-bye to some Cadillac projects...and maybe even the rumored mid-engined Vette....that would probably be scuttled and we get to keep the C7 for another decade...

Oh....Bong... This car magazine had no problems getting a Ford Mustang GT350... http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-comparison-test Corvette Stingray versus GT350 Read the article for what criteria they was looking for.... Oh....and the GT350 came in FIRST PLACE!!! Remember Bong...any stupid excuse coming from you as to why the Vette lost and the Stang won only makes my brushing all car mags with the same brush and stroke all the more accurate....

Hey Bong.... You know what? I praised a BMW 135i in another thread, while calling a 2010 Zeta Camaro clumsy... Does that make me a BMW fanboy too?

Yes El K.... Im a Ford fan. As much as I am a GM fan and a MOPAR guy. I used to be a closet MOPAR fan. Not anymore. Ive come out of the closet and Im loud and proud flaunting my MOPAR colours.... Yes El K...the link from this website shows EXACTLY how biased I am against a Camaro and how biased I am FOR a FORD product: https://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/86371-2016-camaro-ss-drive/ I wrote that 3 days ago....BEFORE I got accused by you... Before my Fusion...(wife's car) I had a Mazda 3...(wife's car) I also bought a W-Body Chevy Impala SS supercharged... A 1999 Olds Alero GLS coupe. A 2007 Ford Edge...(wife's car) I currently own for myself..an Acura TL SH-AWD That would be 2 Ford products and 2 General Motors products... And 2 Japanese foreign jobs. Ive got an Oldsmobile name and a Poncho face rising up from the ashes. Currently, Ive got a MOPAR signature that bids farewell to a great warrior. So....by me showing you how pathetic your argument is makes me a Ford fanboy.... Then it is what it is. But you are right....I AM A FORD GUY. JUST AS MUCH AS I AM A GM GUY and AS MUCH AS I AM A MOPAR GUY! AND TESLA TOO!!! I LOVE AMERICAN CARS, DUDE! PS: THANX MR. COSWORTH SURREAL CCAP For defending me....I really did not have to respond as you guys said and did everything for me!

The 1 Series did not go away... It became the 2 Series. And If Im not mistaken, the M235i is just as a great performance BMW machine as the 135i was. And the M2 has arrived also. And Im guessing the M2 is one hot number as well... The plebeian 1 Series and 2 Series may be useless....but not the performance versions. But then again, a 1980s 318 was just as crappy as the plebeian 1 and 2 Series, non?

Ah...CASA.... That YTD post was for me... My link was from April/May....yours is a couple of months after that...cool. What does Camaro sales have to do with anything? Ask EL K who says that future dividends will be paid out... In the now...the Mustang is winning...and for the future...like I said...The Trans Am is dead...Pontiac the brand is dead...The Trans Am died before Pontiac died...and...Camaro also died once... Plus... even with your figures, Camaro sales lag behind Mustang sales... Lets us all cut the bullshyte about incentives and fleet sales... No spin doctoring anything... Ford's PR department might be pissy at the moment. Boo freakin hoo. This reminds me of the Montreal media going ape shyte because the Montreal Canadiens Hockey Club wouldn't divulge ANY information about their number 1 goalie superstar Carey Price's injury last season. The Montreal Media were inventing stories because the Montreal Hockey Club had nothing to report...and when the Hockey Club told a couple of reporters to stop feeding the public lies....these journalistic idiots said that it was the Hockey Club's fault for them speculating flasehoods and that it is their duty...to lie, in essence... And they said its the Hockey Club's duty to divulge their secrets to them... How narcissistic can you get? And I aint talking about the Habs....and I CANT STAND THE HABS!!! Motor Trend is pissy that they said that they will rent a beater from Avis or Hertz next time if Ford refuses to give them a car... YO Motor Trend... YOU THINK I, AS A READER OF YOUR PISS POOR MAGAZINE, WILL BELIEVE YOUR "JOURNALISTIC" REVIEW IF THAT IS THE CASE??? YOU THINK THAT MAKES YOU MORE OR LESS CREDIBLE? ESPECIALLY IF ITS A SCATHINGLY NEGATIVE REVIEW!!! Like I said...magazine's words sometimes are worthless...

@ Frisky originally and CCAP because he chimed in after I posted this by mere seconds. Yes! Your post is the flip side to my post. When a compare is done, and the automotive journalists/drivers report honestly without any hidden agendas, yes, ABSOLUTELY there is merit. But because cars today are so close competitively, those kinds of reviews are too few and far between.

The magazines exist for people to dream a little dream. The magazines exist for internet bravado and arm chair racing. The magazines exist for fanboys to cheer when the magazines say good things about their favorites. The magazines exist for fanboys to cry home to mommy when the magazines say bad things about their favorites. The magazines exist and are biased as hell. The magazines exist and forget their biases whenever it suits their agenda for that particular purpose. Magazines are full of shyte in other words...

Sorry have to disagree, BMW nailed it as a perfect copy of a cheap ass Chevy or Toyota. Hard plastics, uninspiring driving and over priced for what you got including the over priced service costs. You get more auto buying a Camaro or Mustang than a BMW 1 series. Mr. DFELT. Hard plastics? - OK, Ill give you that one. Maybe, Ill give you that one. Ive never been in one. Ive seen a 135i in action though. Over priced for what you got? - OK, I just might agree with you there too. With the exception of the 135i, 135is and 1M. Over priced service costs? - We will just ignore that statement because a. We are talking about BMW here...and its a foreign brand... b. what dealership service department aint over priced whether foreign or domestic? Uninspiring driving? Not on the 135i, 135is and 1M... Which were produced between the years 2008-2012. Camaro was not alive in 2008. Mustang was cool looking in 2008. But was not exactly a...um.. a bahnstohmah (Boston accent) Camaro in 2009/2010 was a clumsy thing. The BMW 135i, 135is and 1M were visceral little machines that other than the turbos, captured the very essence of what a BMW ultimate driving machine and "M" badge was all about. Personal Preference Olds, I still not impressed with those cars. Gotcha! BMW? I dont blame you! (Although I personally do like the 135 and the1M) Front Wheel Drive Bimmers? The Ultimate Driving Machines?

Sorry have to disagree, BMW nailed it as a perfect copy of a cheap ass Chevy or Toyota. Hard plastics, uninspiring driving and over priced for what you got including the over priced service costs. You get more auto buying a Camaro or Mustang than a BMW 1 series. Mr. DFELT. Hard plastics? - OK, Ill give you that one. Maybe, Ill give you that one. Ive never been in one. Ive seen a 135i in action though. Over priced for what you got? - OK, I just might agree with you there too. With the exception of the 135i, 135is and 1M. Over priced service costs? - We will just ignore that statement because a. We are talking about BMW here...and its a foreign brand... b. what dealership service department aint over priced whether foreign or domestic? Uninspiring driving? Not on the 135i, 135is and 1M... Which were produced between the years 2008-2012. Camaro was not alive in 2008. Mustang was cool looking in 2008. But was not exactly a...um.. a bahnstohmah (Boston accent) Camaro in 2009/2010 was a clumsy thing. The BMW 135i, 135is and 1M were visceral little machines that other than the turbos, captured the very essence of what a BMW ultimate driving machine and "M" badge was all about.

I also prefer the 1st gen W-Body Cutlass Supreme coupe, sedan and convertible more (any year to boot-international series, 3.4 DOHC, 3.1 liter SFI sedan...any model or trim) plus Ill add the 1989 Turbo Grand Prix coupe. The 2nd generation W-Body 1997 supercharged Grand Prix sedan, Oldsmobile Intrigue and the Lumina Z34 Coupe are in 2nd place. Rounding up in 3rd place would be the Lacrosse Super and the 2005 supercharged Impala SS.

Every male teenager hangs out by the urinals... Smoking in the boys room, man. We'll do the original

A Lacrosse was a very nice W-Body. I concur. Yup. A Lacrosse might have had the most balanced and coherent styling of any vintage W-Body. Although 1st generation W-Bodies were also nicely styled. Very nice write-up.

Like I said... Trans Am is dead. Pontiac is dead. Camaro died once before...

Nah....it aint cool... Well, this Bumblebee Camaro is cool And...like CCAP has pointed out...the Camaro doesnt sell. You say the Camaro dont sell, no worries, the Alpha platform sells? No. No it doesnt....the ATS is practically a sales flop... Great platform...it just does not sell... The Mustang is a one-off platform? Could very well be....and its a sales success... Sorry EL K. Maybe Ford's PR department is salty towards media types...I aint arguing that.... Maybe the Mustang falls short on the performance metrics when compared to the Alpha Camaro...but the people have spoken.. They dont care about Michael Bay's and Mary Barra's Alpha Camaro....

That is where I differ from your opinion. I dont think ANYBODY that buys a CUV or SUV cares for performance... If they did, they would buy the sedan to begin with... Including the Cayenne. The Cayenne sells because of the badge on the front of the vehicle...and because it is a Porsche, power-horsepower- has got to be advertised...

Ill answer that question for myself. Drew pointed out....again...and what Ive also being saying...about a X3 CUV, CUVs in general...and about BMW too with Ms. McMansion and Frau Hausfrau... Ill answer this with MY personal opinion on it.. Well...a crossover thing is usually heavier and taller than its car platformed car brother. Why would I want a taller, heavier CUV compared to a lower to the ground, leaner automobile based on the same platform car? Im a car crazy guy... I want to squeeze all the benefits of that 300 horsepower or more engine and I need my car to hug the road when I turn...and a CUV is usually tall. I might roll her over.... Then Id like to stop...A CUV is usually heavier... So...why would I go for an automobile that is inherently crappy for such shenanigans? Remember, I aint Suzy McMansion nor Heidi/Hilde/Helga Hausfrau... And if I truly want an SUV....it wont be the kind that is just for show...a glorified station wagon because I got an image to protect and that is why I refuse to call it a station wagon or minivan... So....an "X" or "V" badge diminutive CUV is an oxymoron....that will NEVER succeed... Trust me....Suzy McMansion sometimes....does not want a Ford Escape or even Edge... She wants a badge.... A 3 Series is too low for her. She feels comfortable being high... Also....she sees Kardashian clowns in the uber expensive G Wagen but Suzy cannot afford the X5 payments and the Ford Edge is beneath her so she settles for the BMW X3...

But...lets be honest... The coolest movie star product placement cars are..well, I wont post any pics, but I guarantee you that Bumblebee is DEAD LAST on the list... Even Starsky and Hutch's red tomato Ford wobbling and bobbling along is waaaaay coooler...on anybody's list, not just mine... IRONY.... HERBIE..the ORIGINAL Bumblebee is cooler that the Camaro Bumblebee...

Funny you mention Knight Rider when they used a Mustang for the horrible reboot. Because the Trans Am was dead... Pontiac was dead. The Camaro was alive though. I wonder why they never went with a Camaro? The Super Snake was just released then though....maybe Ford got product placement frenzy too?

That is the most asinine thing you've said on this entire thread. I missed the second part SMK... Nobody hear has said ANY of that.... Other than for high performance SUVs... The flip side to selling high volumes of SUVs....and THAT is what I was saying.... http://www.autonews.com/article/20140816/OEM/308189984/porsches-record-sales-could-endanger-exclusivity-tech-leadership From Aug 2014... Porsche's record sales could endanger exclusivity, tech leadership VW sank itself with the Diesel thing...if you think that Im all doom and gloom... And yes...I dont care for small, yuppie mobile soccer mom trash CUVs...."M" badge or "V" badge... And many dont either... Escalades and Cayennes sell...because many poseurs are around us... But....these guys..the REAL SUV guys....they spend MORE money on their one Wrangler or Hilux truck than what a Cayenne and Escalade costs TOGETHER... You know....spending the money to lift it, the tires, suspensions....and then spending the money to fi the broken parts after a week-end off roading... These guys are not poseurs...and dont want to impress anyone. It is us that go goo goo gaa gga over them. The Cayenne guys and the Escalade guys....want that same attention though...

I know SMK....what you want for Cadillac. I also know you hate SUVs as much as I do. I dont care for that. What I do care for is...lets all be honest about this... Cadillac has got the ball rolling, FINALLY, in producing honest to goodness real luxury and high performance vehicles on par with Germany. What they do lack is product. A more vast portfolio is desperately needed. They dont have enough models for people to choose from. They dont have enough RIGHT product to sell to people either. And this is the part where I want us to be honest: If some Americans are STILL skeptical on Cadillac's image...do we honestly think Europeans will be any different? If Cadillac has a long way to go States Side....they have an even bigger hill to climb in Europe where Europeans are super loyal to their home brands... Its a long way down the Holliday Road

Yeah...but....there is a problem EL K... http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/05/camaro-sales-april-2016-sales-numbers-results-figures/ The Mustang kicks its ass in sales... YTD 2016 in the USA Camaro 26 038 Mustang 42 862 and you know what is EMBARRASSING? That the outdated, old, slow Challenger is at 22 451 units... ONLY 4000 units lower than the Transformer BRAVADO CAMARO.... The Mustang..is still the first in the segment...MOPAR guys will refuse to acknowledge that, but the segment is called the Pony Car segment... As long as the Mustang is being made by Ford, the Camaro will ALWAYS play second fiddle... Sure it will have some better years in sales from time to time....but it is the Mustang.... PS: That IS a fire breathing Phoenix affectionately known as a Screamin' Chicken as my avatar...kind of a badge engineering car to the Camaro....so yeah....my loyalties fall with GM on this segment more often than not....including my love for a Camaro....its just that GM heavily relies TOO much on product placement on it.... Add all the Smokey movies (3) and the Knight Rider thing and that is still less crap thrown at us than the Transformer BS.... Even Burt Reynolds knew when to quit.... Watch Cannonball Run again....Burt is wondering what car to enter, he looks at the camera when he mentions Trans Am and nods NO... and says" done that already"... and goes with the ambulance... YOU SAY IT WILL PAY DIVIDENDS IN THE FUTURE???!!! I SAY PONTIAC DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE!!!