oldshurst442

Sooooo, just to be clear olds, you have concluded that a successful and planned take rate for I4 GTDI in Europe, as well as a successful V8 take rate......means that EcoBoost marketing in the US is a failure. Ok. I don't follow that logic at all, especially if Ford is selling exactly what they planned, but W/E. Ecoboost in the US is a success? Sure it is!!! When all you do is just slap a turbo on each and every engine you offer in the US and call it an ecoboost... But yeah...W/E...I just like to be unique...I say whatevs...

Dont divulge any info please... Im waiting for the family to go to bed before I watch it...I recorded it.

They will probably sell many...kudos to Ford...but Im also willing to bet that the V8 take rate will mirror that of the U.K.'s... So much for ecoboosting the hype of...ecoboost...

It was an interesting idea... But its not as if Infiniti...technically Nissan in Japan...did not offer 4 door Skylines... Had they did this with Infinity when they brought out the Infinity Skyline known to us a G35...we would not be having this conversation...all they had to do is just follow JDM's path... With that being said...If Infiniti is gonna inherit this power train from the GT-R...Id rather be seeing in this vehicle right here: I think Vettel Edition part II is in order...

I hear you on that...however...for a second time... http://www.autoevolution.com/news/brits-are-proportionally-buying-more-v8-mustangs-than-americans-99184.html http://blog.caranddriver.com/u-k-kicking-americas-butt-when-it-comes-to-ford-mustang-v-8-take-rates/ http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/08/ford-mustang-v8-a-favorite-among-uk-buyers.html High petrol prices in the EU... It sure did not deter... That V8 feel and sound seems important to some...no matter how much pull an ecoboost 4 cylinder has at low RPMs with said benefits of fuel economy...

low end torque from a turbo 4 cylinder and low end torque from a naturally aspirated V8...even when equal amounts at same RPMs STILL does not FEEL the same...and sound IS part of that equation...but NOT the whole story...my god dude...and YOU are supposedly from the Motor City...

Glad to see that you are still a hater... Here...I nice photograph of a nice VW Beetle approx 80 years ago... I think that what VW has done in history is a far worse crime than what GM has done... WHAT??? Yup...VW Beetle underneath those military clothes... I see that you dont want to let go of GM's crap...Im curious though...have you forgiven and forgave VW?

I sometimes feel playful when I discuss things...and when I get this way...my discussions border on the trolly side...but its all in the name of fun...hence why I post dumb unrelated pics and refenrence them to my "discussion"...and its made for EVERYBODY's enjoyment...so...please...enjoy. PS: dont misunderstand though...there is a message that I want to pass...and in this case...Id rather a 5.3 liter V8 for a Camaro over a supercharged 6.2 640 horse ZL-1 Camaro and a 275 horse turbo 4...and even lass...the V6...yup...Id rather the turbo 4 Camaro over the V6... (yes I know...Ford's actual marketing strategy...I did say I feel playful...and trollish... ) Why I would rather the 5.3? 327 cubic inches of naturally aspirated V8 fun... Its the Challenger Hellcat that I want stupendous amounts of supercharged horsepower... As for the Mustang...that flat plane crank Voodoo V8 hits the spot..,.

Thanx Drew....THAT was MY point...and I believe El K's too...hence the Craps and Blackjack references for this so-called argument/discussion...and the links that provide proof that the Brits...also prefer the V8 sound over a turbo 4 and to hell with petrol prices...

Good points. Both boosted pony engines are tuned for both power and economy, which means power gets compromised somewhat as they are divergent targets. I suspect another 10-20hp would have dropped they FE numbers by nearly a whole mpg as well. Can't have that of course. No, I think GM's targets are just fine and plenty of performance for the 90th percentile, because we clearly see how far performance has come with these cars, which is more base performance than top level pony cars from 20 years ago. Sure...but dont tell me that an ecoboosted 4 cylinder feels like a 5.0 from Vanilla Ice days... Sure...that ecoboosted 4 cylinder might make MORE power....be MORE fuel efficient....and it might even be FASTER....but it DEFINITELY does NOT feel like a 5.0... And for a pony car...FEEL is just as important... Im all for technology and moving forward and all...but for heaven's sake...dont tell me a forced induction 4 pot motor feels like a good 'ol American V8... You know...even the Brits are buying more V8 Mustangs...on percentage...than Americans are...what does THAT tell you? http://www.autoevolution.com/news/brits-are-proportionally-buying-more-v8-mustangs-than-americans-99184.html http://blog.caranddriver.com/u-k-kicking-americas-butt-when-it-comes-to-ford-mustang-v-8-take-rates/ http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/08/ford-mustang-v8-a-favorite-among-uk-buyers.html Sorry again olds, but at 320ftlbs so early in the powerband......the current 2.3L has more torque than a Five-Oh from the 80's. Feelings are subjective, but those are the facts. Facts are facts...sure...but it DOES NOT feel like a V8... About those Brits wanting a V8 over the 4 pot....regardless how much they actually pay for petrol...

Good points. Both boosted pony engines are tuned for both power and economy, which means power gets compromised somewhat as they are divergent targets. I suspect another 10-20hp would have dropped they FE numbers by nearly a whole mpg as well. Can't have that of course. No, I think GM's targets are just fine and plenty of performance for the 90th percentile, because we clearly see how far performance has come with these cars, which is more base performance than top level pony cars from 20 years ago. Sure...but dont tell me that an ecoboosted 4 cylinder feels like a 5.0 from Vanilla Ice days... Sure...that ecoboosted 4 cylinder might make MORE power....be MORE fuel efficient....and it might even be FASTER....but it DEFINITELY does NOT feel like a 5.0... And for a pony car...FEEL is just as important... Im all for technology and moving forward and all...but for heaven's sake...dont tell me a forced induction 4 pot motor feels like a good 'ol American V8... You know...even the Brits are buying more V8 Mustangs...on percentage...than Americans are...what does THAT tell you? http://www.autoevolution.com/news/brits-are-proportionally-buying-more-v8-mustangs-than-americans-99184.html http://blog.caranddriver.com/u-k-kicking-americas-butt-when-it-comes-to-ford-mustang-v-8-take-rates/ http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/08/ford-mustang-v8-a-favorite-among-uk-buyers.html

Sorry folks... But but we are talking about a forced induction engine versus a naturally aspired one... Turbo charge or supercharge a V8 or a V6... Here...this is what a SUPERCHARGED V8 looks like... I understand Hyper... But at the end of the day...its still a 4 cylinder under the hood...sure 300 horses...Id rather have 300 NATURALLY ASPIRATED horses in V6 or V8 form... Not to sour up what the ecoboost 4 Mustang or turbo 4 Camaro are all about....its a helluva an achievement for both vehicles...however... Dont try to sell me up on it... Id rather an LT1 or LS1 from the 1990s than either 4 pot... That is just me... Im excited to see both of these 4 cylinder versions of both cars what they could do... I understand the different and WELCOME both marketing strategies...however...at the end of the day...a NTAURALLY ASPIRATED 5.3 liter V8 is what Id rather than ANY version of the Camaro...again...that is just me... But dont tell me...no matter what upgrades you do to a turbo 4 cylinder car...that it feels like a V8...because it doesnt... It may be as fast...faster...but it definitely doesnt NOT feel like a naturally aspirated V8... As with the Hellcat on top....yeah...if Im gonna go down a forced induction road...Id rather a suercharged Hemi please...not an ecoboosted 4...

I suppose you are right... Im just quite peeved at this...I want blood! I want somebody to poke at VW...I dont care who it might be! Top Gear had the right idea... Die Volkswagen Die! And no...not in German for THE Volkswagen THE I REALLY mean DIE Volkswagen DIE!!! In GERMAN...courtesy of Google Translate: STERBEN Volkswagen STERBEN

Yeah...but...if its fuel eceonomy you seek...you stick to the 4 cylinder... If its medium power with moderate fuel efficiency....you stick to the 6 cylinder...and if you want raw power... With Ford...buy an ecoboost 4 cylinder for fuel economy.... or Ill rent myself a Mustang from Hertz for the week-end... Ford's I4 Mustang offers it's best fuel economy, and instant torque that feels like a small V8. How foolish would Ford be to offer this for less money than their far weaker V6. Nope...nope it doesnt feel like a small V8...it feels like a turbocharged 4 cylinder car... Weaker V6? Only because Ford chooses it to be weaker...and muffled...and stifled...and left behind to rot in rental car parks...

Yeah...but...if its fuel eceonomy you seek...you stick to the 4 cylinder... If its medium power with moderate fuel efficiency....you stick to the 6 cylinder...and if you want raw power... With Ford...buy an ecoboost 4 cylinder for fuel economy.... or Ill rent myself a Mustang from Hertz for the week-end...

here ya go, this VW thing will be the catalyst (no pun intended) for the tyrants (aka governments) to start to rid the world of diesel http://www.dailymail...green-fuel.html i wonder if GM and Chevy do an about face on an available diesel for the new Cruze here now, after this, Sure they can....they could easily play cut throat advertising and just say their Cruze Diesel does NOT cheat the system and its clean...unlike VW's TDi "clean" diesel.. They could say...EPA tested and approved and NOT circumvented...

That is true... about the Mustang being a global car...and so a 4 cylinder is a must...but then again...a Camaro also has a turbo 4...so that is a push... So...the deal with that is that the ecoboost 4 is a mid-level offering as opposed to GM's turbo 4...less horsepower but just about an equal amount of torques...as a BASE engine for GM VS mid-level for Ford... Can you say Blackjack pays 2 to 1...

When you break it down that way...it becomes a very apparent that Ford's gamble on this ecoboost 4 pot as a mid-level engine is kinda like a field bet in craps...16 ways to win...but 20 ways to lose!!! You just got bitten by snake eyes!!! a 5.3 liter V8....or 327 as how I would like to call it...would make a FANTASTIC engine option for the Camaro...especially as a mid-level offering...

Well...Im gonna allow some love for at least one of their pics... That Miura concept WAS indeed a gorgeous recreation of a gorgeous classic... although I agree with Lambo's decision NOT to produce this concept...because Lamborghini after the Countach...which was the Miura's successor, was never about fluid shapes and elegant styling...but in your face, violent lines and arrogance...so when this concept came out in the mid 2000s or so...it definitely does not fit in with Lambo's shocking styling 40 years in the making... And yes...the list was crap...

That is thing though...you also speculated that some of those people are actually still employed there... BTW...you bought a Fprd product in 2013, like myself...in the 1970s...Ford killed many also...to say that they learned their lesson from gas tanks and such...the Panther cars had the same problem as the Pinto cars in the late 1990s...yet...you still bought a Ford... OK...That was the 1970s...and the 1990s... Toyota...Unintended accelration. Honda...Takata...airbags. Audi...unintended acceleration VW and Audi...circumventing software that masks air pollution...sure its serious... So...now that we;ve eliminated 6 car companies...including GM and Ford just to be fair..because to say ts ONLY GM its ludicrous..maybe now if you tell me your next car will come from Chrysler...oops...they too have had corruption...OK...7 car companies... To say that your next vehicle will come from Volvo, Mazda and Peugeot..Ill buy into your logic and thought process...but if not...Im sorry...but your logic is a no go with me... You are correct but I believe in the Article the way it was worded made it sound like they are still working there as the employees back in the 70's I have absolutely no clue about. I have said it before about the GM situation that..time heals all wounds. And I believe it with this as well. Well, ford has airbag issues as well, I believe. I think I have a current outstanding recall for an air bag. It just isn't one of the takata ones. With those other problems was their proof that said employees KNEW about the problem while continuing to use the part in the cars? Or was it just a big fck up that was discovered later? Honestly, I do not know that answer. But that is my gripe. They knew and possibly still have a job there. Yeah...Ford has an airbag recall....My Fusion has it too.. Is yours about some sort of module being defective and in case of a crash...the airbag might not deploy? Maybe they are working at GM still... This is why I said...instead of "boycotting" GM, why dont we actually fight to get these guys FIRED from GM...and put on trial? Not only GM employees ...Delco employess too...because I remember even some engineers at Delco KNEW that the part would fail...told their bosses, but their bosses did nothing also...because contract is too big to deny...everybody it seems was thinking in terms of money... EVERYBODY HAS A MORAL OBLIGATION. The excuse of...I was just doing my job...should not fly in a circumstance like this one. We..have turned into a society of zombies only looking at money and material objects...

Dear Burnt LS7... You could downvote this too... It just show hw much of a loser you really are... You stated an opinion...I countered...and no other rebuttal... Why is that? because it shows you are a weasel...a biased poster against one bloody company... I dont care....GM or Ford or Honda...they are all corporations with their CEOs thinking about THEIR own bottom line and THEIR own well being...not mine... Be a stooge in hatin' GM and lovin' whatever company makes you cream your pants....and stooge you are...because you have no intelligence to back up ANY opinion you may have...and THAT is sad...

That is thing though...you also speculated that some of those people are actually still employed there... BTW...you bought a Fprd product in 2013, like myself...in the 1970s...Ford killed many also...to say that they learned their lesson from gas tanks and such...the Panther cars had the same problem as the Pinto cars in the late 1990s...yet...you still bought a Ford... OK...That was the 1970s...and the 1990s... Toyota...Unintended accelration. Honda...Takata...airbags. Audi...unintended acceleration VW and Audi...circumventing software that masks air pollution...sure its serious... So...now that we;ve eliminated 6 car companies...including GM and Ford just to be fair..because to say ts ONLY GM its ludicrous..maybe now if you tell me your next car will come from Chrysler...oops...they too have had corruption...OK...7 car companies... To say that your next vehicle will come from Volvo, Mazda and Peugeot..Ill buy into your logic and thought process...but if not...Im sorry...but your logic is a no go with me...

Of course...burnt LS7 downvotes... Chicken shyte...offer a rebuttal... But no...like a baby...like a spoiled modern society self important dweeb...stamp on the ground and downvote... I think I found you your life's soul mate... Go to Vancouver Island...she is awaiting for you...

(nope...no burnt valve LS7 dude to be found) Just ignore this post...its my way of venting...

+1 Oh there is certainly a uproar. From the link below, "Hundreds of deaths resulted from GM's conduct, and yet they simply write a check and go home. This is a remarkably jaw-dropping and incredibly sad result." - Robert Hilliard http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/17/safety-advocates-disgusted-justice-department-gm-deal/ In full agreement. Writing a check and going home? GM as a corporation was grilled night and day with this fiasco... Many people wont buy a GM vehicle every again... The thing is...a 2016 Cadillac CT6 has nothing to do with a 2002 Chevrolet Cobalt...in that the people in charge of manufacturing cheap parts in the Cobalt are no longer around to make such decisions on the Cadillac CT6... The people that did the damage are running around free... 2 different things... And THAT is why I downvoted... A company has NOTHING to do with ANY good or bad...it is the people that run the company...and like Hyper mentioned...most if not all ppeople that had something to do with this already left the company... Again...why I downvoted...because this burnt LS7 dude is one biased poster... ANYTHING to denounce GM... I wonder if you commented on the latest corrupt corporation thread over at VW???!!! Nah...just ignore the VW thing... Its only American car companies and especially GM that screw the American consumer and its only American car companies especially GM that circumvent American laws just to beefen up the bottom line... And no...deaths are deaths and circumventing software programs to allow to pollute are 2 different things...but...one is not more evil when corruption is concerned... But because we have a biased poster in da house...I decided to make him and VW an example... And no...not because "everybody does it" that GM or VW CEOs should be let free with a slap on their wrists....and not because VW is German and GM is American that we should hate on VW more than GM or vice versa.... What Im trying to say that..is...instead of looking at a specific car company to crucify...why dont we focus on the stupid corrupt corporation culture in general and stop THAT culture from repeating itself time and time again... the PEOPLE...the HUMANS involved!!! The way you agreed to those stupid articles...its like you are ready to boycott GM..and ONLY GM...well....start boycotting just about 90% of ALL corporations...because one way or other...the people that run ALL corporations are one way or other...CORRUPT...from hidden defects that kill people...to sexual assaulting fellow employees...to racial/gender/sexual/religious discrimination... No its not... politicians have made such laws...the ones that are just as corrupt as the people that run those companies...just reverse the laws and bring back the political power to the average citizen... And you know who actually changes that? The average citizen!!! Except the average North American citizen couldnt be bothered... A country like Greece however...the people...forced the entire European Community to re-think its strategy on the bailouts and the Austerity measures forced upon them...with a fast referendum...that had to take place...and they rejected what was offered to them...which forced big wig banks guys and German politicians to re-think what it is they were doing...when they were THREATENING to dismantle Greece if they went on with a referendum... Power to the people...is something we North Americans yell constantly...but we do nothing about it!!!