ccap41

I wanna say 08-10 gen.. 5.5L ? Does that sound right?

+1, Totally agree! By far and away my least favorite vehicles on the roads right now are the freakin' coupe-CUVs. X4, X6, GLC Coupe, GLE Coupe. Now I think Mazda recently showed a CX-4 that appears to be a coupe as well.. I'll give them that it looks the best of the bunch but that's not a bunch I would want to be compared to.

I don't understand why they couldn't just do that same exact thing with a V8. Why does it HAVE to have 12 cylinders? I mean those numbers aren't much beyond Hellcat numbers so instead of starting from scratch on a V12 why not invest 1/3(probably less but just an example) of the money into an existing V8 and polish it up for smoothness and more power that could ALSO be later used in other vehicles? Cylinder count snobbiness I think is pretty ignorant these days with modern turbos and direct injection technology. It's amazing what a company can do with a lowly 4cyl engine and a turbo(or two) now. And look at the plethora of twin turbo V6's out there now that are pretty freakin good. What's the point of 12 if it can be done w/ 8 and on top of that help your CAFE score.

Saw an X6 today.

German vs. American luxury. oh...wait.. uhh... sales..?

Base Wralgler starts at 24k and I too thought the 4 would have been more a 200hp/tq type of engine and then 300ish for the v6. Also, the next gen wrangler is supposed to be aluminum so it will be losing weight as well because i also agree that it needed a diet or something to be able to comply with the ole CAFE. And aluminum and whatever high gear ratio tranny should help a fair amount.

Well, I drove an ATS and I sat in a CT6(and fiddled with the infotainment stuffs). ATS drove awesome. I loved how tight and nimble it felt. The trans felt a little snappy from gear to gear but not in a bad way, just in a way that I'm not used to in autos. But I've also never driven a sporty auto..well I guess my C350 was in a similar category just 7 years older. Just about everything about how it drove I really really liked. I immediately felt comfortable behind the wheel and I think some of that is I'm just more at home in smaller vehicles where I can feel the proportions much better than larger, "airier" vehicles. What I mean by that is, for instance, The space in the cabin from driver to the bottom of the windshield and pillars..just feels wait more "airy" in my Escape. The ATS, not so much. But I liked it. I felt more connected to the car right off the bat. Back seats were fine for me but I know I'm on the average side of people so anybody larger might have issues. Luckily for me I don't have many friends over 6' anyway. Plus, I've dealt with Mustangs in the past so having 4 doors is a plus already. I did find it odd that sitting in the back seat the roof was very low. Low to the point that the back 6 inches of the roof-line actually have a cut out for taller riders, but my head was already occupying that space(not to the ceiling but awfully close for being 5'8") so I really am not sure IF a 6' passenger could sit in the back. The one thing that might actually be a deal breaker is the damn fake buttons for radio/HVAC. I honestly don't know how that was "okay'd". I didn't think the ones for the HVAC were really that bad. They were in good locations and responded 95% of the time I touched it. It was the ones by the radio( vehicle did NOT have CUE) that I just turned the volume knob and twice my pinky brushed the "radio" "button" and went to AM and then had to fiddle with it to get it back to FM. But that was really the only thing I didn't like, but I didn't like it a lot. I'd like to get some seat time w/ CUE and see how that is. I also realize that once I familiarize myself with the car I would probably just be using the steering wheel controls anyway but just the fact that it would take waaaay more getting used to that it should is kind of gear grinding. CT6. F, that car is sexy in person. The dealer had one on the lot(2 pre-ordered and sold already) and this was their first to just be as regular inventory. This was a "lowly" version ringing in at only 61k so I couldn't imagine bringing that up to 90k+ w/ more bells and whistles(other than the TT3.0 and AWD which this did not have - obviously). I freakin' LOVED how the infotainment system navigated and looked and worked and everything, lol. The touch pad that works like a mouse..and you can feel through it where you're moving the "mouse". You place your finger on it and when moving left, right, up, or down it as tiny pulses recognizing which way you're moving your finger so you can probably navigate the screen with less effort while driving. It's just awesome. either touch the screen or use the touch pad which how I placed my thumb on it, fit ergonomically perfect to me from where I set the seat up to. No stretching or too cramped and bending my arm. The car was a little big for me but honestly, from the driver's seat it didn't feel too bad. I felt like I knew the proportions fairly well from the driver's seat and that's a very comforting feeling to me which I don't get in many vehicles but the outward visibility was superb as it was in the ATS.

Do you lift, dfelt???? Am I talking to a fellow gym rat and didn't know this whole time??? Need you both to kick my butt into the habit once I'm done all of this travel at the end of the month. I was taught to never ski while tired or you'll end up hurting yourself, and I imagine the same is true for lifting. I can't get over the exhaustion to go make myself more exhausted at the moment. LOL, Yes, I was 6 ft tall at age 12, totally a mess in coordination and my dad took me to the Washington state body building competition which is now the Washington State Natural Body building competition. Saw Arnold and fell in love with the sport. I did everything I could to build myself and eventually bought his Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding and never looked back. Highly Recommend this book: ArnoldBible.jpg Even if you do not want to be a full blown body building but just to tone and shape up, this shows step by step the safest ways I know to lift free weights and build your body into a strong solid frame. At 48 years Old, I ski harder than most teens and 20's according to my son. Still hit the parks, jumps, etc. I truly believe being a Gym Rat is an important part of long life with little down time. Drew, best way to ease back into it when the Gym has not been a consistent part of your life is to have some dumb bells at home, not 20, 30 40 lbs, but simple 3,5 & 8 pound dumb bells, so you can do bicep curls and tricep presses while watching TV. Forearm curls to help strengthen and keep from having issues with your fingers and forearms for those of us at the computer all day. You can also then use these same dumb bells to do lungs while watching TV or a movie. Standing squats if you want to get a bit heavier dumbbells can be done also. This will get you into a routine and then you can slide back into the gym. So yes, a fellow Gym Rat and now hopefully people can understand why I find anything other than a full size SUV at 6'6" tall and 280 lbs to be a small comfy auto for me. Happy LIfting! Dude, I didn't know that! That rocks! Good lord 6'6", 280lbs. That actually sounds like a very in-shape height:weight ratio, great job! I definitely understand why you can't fit into smaller vehicles, you literally can't. lol Wow, yeah There was one kid I grew up with that was 6ft in middle school(13-14?) and he was insanely uncoordinated, just grew too dang fast. Drew, are you getting enough sleep at night? I know that can be a starting point to just being exhausted. I know I don't get enough most nights..usually only 6-6.5hrs. Eating not $h! food helps also. That is the hardest for me. It's so tough to eat right when it's so easy to eat quick and cheaper. Also, one thing that helps me is finding a plan and just forcing myself to stick to it. For instance, I'm doing a 12 week program right now that I just tell myself I have to get the workout in, no excuses. And some of the exhaustion could go away from just being more active as well.

FIA World Endurance race at the legendary Spa-Francorchamls is on right now. FOX Sports 2.

Who knows!? I'm not Mary Barra!! Why does Benz charge $2600 for Voice Control when it is a feature that even a low end Chevy Sonic and Ford Fiesta have?? 2016-05-06.png Buick dropped the price of the 2.4 powered Regal and then apparently stopped building it, leaving it as an entry in the catalog only. The 2.0T Regal is now the $29.9 car. You're going to get your wish on the '17 Lacrosse. There is no more 2.4 available and I would expect it to move up in price. You're all over the place on your definition! If having leather is a qualifier, than most of the base model Benzes get disqualified for having plastic seats. If performance is a qualifier, than nearly all of the 4-cylinder Benzes get disqualified. The Maxima and Avalon are both faster than a much more expensive E300, and the Dodge Charger Hemi and Taurus SHO are right there with an E400. If handling performance is a qualifier, the big cloud-like S-Class and Lexus LS get disqualified as luxury cars while the Chevrolet SS is one. So the Chevy SS.. is that a luxury car? It has a fantastic interior (much better than the Impala, which itself is very good), it's got the performance, is all it missing is a badge? The question is more than specs on a sheet though. The Maxima is the best example of this. It is basically the same size as the Altima. It checks nearly all of the same boxes for "specs" as the Altima (leather, NAV, power windows, V6), and if you lined up the spec sheet of each car next to each other with Yes/No next to each spec, they would look essentially the same. But these are not the same levels of car. While they both have leather seats, the Maxima has much nicer leather seats, the Maxima has a much nicer dashboard, it uses much nicer materials all around, it has fantastic (I'm driving one this week) sound deadening. So maybe... it's more than just a statistic or a badge that make a luxury car a luxury car.... but I doubt you'll ever get that through your badge snobbery. Dissected like a BOSS

Eventually it will.. I think whenever it is gas goes back up people will think a little more about that extra 1-3mpg hit the CUV is taking. I 100% disagree here. Crossovers are getting to the point they are at least nearly, if not as efficient, as their sedan counterparts while still offering much greater utility. this is why FCA, Ford, cadillac, and most others are investing heavily in new crossovers and SUVs. Name one CUV that is as efficient as it's counterpart, ex Focus->Escape, I should probably clarify so you don't go nuts on the grey areas.. You can't pick a Focus ST and an Escape with the 1.6. Maybe as efficient was a stretch but a lot are within an MPG or 2 and a lot are capable of 30 MPG+. One thing that slowed them down temporarily was that when prices skyrocketed there were a lot that were lucky to hit low/mid 20s on the highway. They are going to get more and more efficient as time goes on too with hings such as aero, high gear transmissions, and weight shedding. Okay then name one that is within 1mpg or 2mpg of its classmate.. It's gotta be the same engine now. You can't choose a more powerful car like a Focus ST and an Escape with the 1.6 FWD. Wouldn't all of those things be placed in the cars as well which you could gear even higher, weigh less, and be more aero efficient? Quick sample of the Mazda 3 and CX-5 shows: 3 2.5L: 4 door - 29/40 3 2.5L: 5 door - 28/39 CX-5 FWD 2.5L: 26/33 For $h!s I'll give the more economical 2.0 engine that is only offered in a manual for the CX-5: 26/35 Let's try the Toyota Corolla and Rav4, shall we? Corolla 1.8L I'll make it easier, it ranges from 27-30city and 36-40 highway Rav4(only offered w/ 1 engine), FWD, 2.5L: 24/31 Ford Focus and Escape. Focus with the 2.0(less efficient than the 1.0): 27/40 Escape with the most efficient engine(new 1.5T), FWD: 23/30 Heck, I'll just keep going because I have some time to kill. Dart 2.0: 24/34 Dart 2.4: 23/35 Compass FWD, 2.4: 21/28 I'll even give you the Renegade all brand new w/ the 9spd(2.4): 22/31 1.4T: 24/31 <-That is the closest gap yet, 3mpg and that's because the dart just doesn't compete in its own class and is on its way out. Maybe there is a hidden gem out there that is 1-2mpg off but these are 5-6mpg off in FWD trims it would grow in AWD form.

Totally agree about watching yourself while pumping iron, you totally get buzzed to push and pump more. So addictive to the natural body adrenaline high. Do you lift, dfelt???? Am I talking to a fellow gym rat and didn't know this whole time???

Again, by your own definition, that means that a base model CLA is not luxury because it sure as hell doesn't offer anything special in that regard.I still find it amusing that you continue to move the bar and dodge replies that directly contradict your BS and then you try to create some new scenario or set a particular criteria that means nothing to anyone but yourself. It really is embarrassing. I think we've actually been down this road.. a lot of Mercedes don't even come standard with Leather.. They give you the fake stuff unless you pony up. So..is Mercedes only part luxury? Because the S and G have to come with leather, I'd imagine the AMG GT does...and probably the GLS as well..? But the CLA, C, GLA, E, and GLE all some standard with the fake goods(looked those up). Cadillac only offers leather. Just say'n.

Dude, the 2.5L makes 202 horsepower and 191 lb-ft. Ya know what.. You are absolutely correct. I have no clue where I read the 180hp.. Maybe I either read it wrong or they typed it wrong but you are correct. Thanks ya! ..I still don't want it though.. haha

Ask the Ford stockholder. He's the one who interested Ford sales into a GM sales thread. What I provided was perspective for why those things occurred. I just don't know why oposing sides try and rub it in each others faces that X brand has more retail vs commercial sales.. as long as both companies are profiting BILLIONS of dollars and making sweet-ass vehicles for the retail customer who cares how they supplement the earnings to make said vehicles? I don't care if Ford has to sell a billion fleet/rental/commercial vehicles as long as they continue to make vehicles like the GT350 and Raptor..I don't care. Whatever has to happen to keep both companies afloat and profitable.

+1 Thanks again rogueriver! Darn, I am going to have to ask you about Mercedes because that is the car my wife wants. I figure the best thing to do is lease to leverage the car being under warranty. My ATS gets complimentary service for its first few years so I have not paid a dime in service. Cmicasa the Great would know a lot more about the cost of maintaining a Cadillac. Well, in all fairness mine was an '06 and nothing is the same now as it was then so I would just look for a more reliable resource to the current lineup. But, for what it's worth, it drove and performed GREAT. I really did love how it drove( C350 ). It was smooth, quiet, efficient, actually pretty dang quick(268hp/258tq) but any parts for it were expensive. I would only believe they are the same i not worse at this point so I would only own one under warranty.. but that's me.

You know I don't know why people piss so much about fleet and commercial sales so much. Unless the number is 20% of total sales or higher..who gives a &#036;h&#33;? Well, that question is answered from the months of back-and-forths over it here but I should ask, "why do you guys give a &#036;h&#33;?"

Honestly, I kind of don't even want to test a 3.6 because they are more than I am willing to spend so if I like it more then I just won't buy the car at all.. It'll either be a "like" or "don't like" of the 2.0 and I won't even consider the 2.5 as I don't really think it belongs in any Cadillac or Buick/GMC.. 180hp/171tq.. GM is better than that to put that motor in these premium brands. I think there should be something below the 2.0 I just don't think the gap should be that large, ~90hp/120tq. I think a 200/200 base engine would be a little more appropriate.

Hahaha yeah I saw that article as well! I don't know if it's their BEST product...the Golf R is pretty special itself.. but it's no Corvette powered ANYTHING How many awesome cars are out there? Yes. I tend to not like seeing videos of myself doing anything but I don't mind watching myself in the mirror(working out).

I guess I should have clarified at some point that I am looking used. So I am NOT looking to spend 35-40k on this car but I'm looking in the 20-24k range with 30-40k miles(you'd be surprised how much they've depreciated). That was one reason I want to know about the maintenance compared to the Germans because I've owned a Mercedes and &#036;h&#33; is expensive. For example, they made a certain wiper blade clip that you can only get from like 2 companies and they were $40 a pair no matter what. Is that the end-all be-all? expensive wiper blades? No. But it's just another thing that is expensive on the damn car that doesn't need to be. I don't want to run into things like that. +1 Thanks again rogueriver!

Thank you Frisky!! Your personal opinion is exactly what I was looking for. I'm glad a few here have gotten to drive exactly what I'm thinking about(and owned as rougeriver does) Well in my price range I am definitely looking at the 2.0T. It seems like everything with the 3.6 is more than I would like to spend at this time. How small are the rear seats? Is it much smaller than my Escape because that's relatively small as well. Ps. I don't know why it won't let me un-bold the font..oh well..

Thank you very VERY much for your personal insight! I'm really glad somebody here owns basically exactly what I'm looking at for their point of view on the car. The biggest issue I have is as much as I want a RWD sporty/athletic car I'm afraid I will be screwed come winter again like I was with my Mach 1. I don't have a place to store a second set of winter tires so a good all-season would have to do. How many miles do you have on yours so far?

+1!

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). Want more? Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. Yeah, reliable cars. Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!! Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose. I'm going to bump this so hopefully all get to see the fantastic reliability that MB offers. And I'm going to help you because some people need a reality check. You want to like said brand? Fine. No one is stopping you. However, that should come with a healthy dose of reality to help cure any kind of brand related blindness. Very well said btw ccap. Hey check out what I found in the link you posted earlier! That was a 2 for the price of 1 link, great job! "IntelliChoice cost of ownership calculates the CLA250 would command $1220 more to operate over 5 years than the 320i. Regal and CC: $1987 and $3738 extra over the BMW" http://www.motortrend.com/news/entry-level-luxury-sedan-comparison/

Eventually it will.. I think whenever it is gas goes back up people will think a little more about that extra 1-3mpg hit the CUV is taking. I 100% disagree here. Crossovers are getting to the point they are at least nearly, if not as efficient, as their sedan counterparts while still offering much greater utility. this is why FCA, Ford, cadillac, and most others are investing heavily in new crossovers and SUVs. Name one CUV that is as efficient as it's counterpart, ex Focus->Escape, I should probably clarify so you don't go nuts on the grey areas.. You can't pick a Focus ST and an Escape with the 1.6.