ccap41

Tire wear varies GREATLY if you know anything about tires(make/model/compound/wear rating/driver's style/most OEMs have tires designed for their specific cars so buying an ATS with X tire will be different than buying a 3 Series with the same brand name and model tire). Unless you know information about both ATS and 3/C Class tires there is no way one can honestly say they are similar without at the very least knowing the wear ratings of each tire. Yes the only thing that is "similar cost" is oil. But that is what I'm curious about in this thread... is Cadillac as expensive to own and maintain as a Benz/BMW/Audi? I do my own oil changes so that doesn't matter to me. I also doubt the 2.0T usues 8.5 qts of oil(like the large majority of Benz/BMW use - in the ball park of 7.0-8.5qts is normal for them) and still has intervals of around 10k miles...so again..cheaper..

Again, your bull$h! cherry picking is not going to fly here. If you think that certain model Buicks don't compete with the cheapo CLA, then you are further deluding yourself. Again, I can post that MT comparo where the Regal handed the CLAs ass to it if you want. Doooo iiiiitttttt!

GM covers these two markets with 3 brands, Mercedes covers it with one. There is a valid debate to be had over which strategy is superior, but comparing sales numbers without acknowledging these facts is dishonest. Then you have to give BMW all Mini sales, because the cheapest Mini costs the same as a Verano and the Clubman is the same price as an Encore. Mini sales aren't any good, but if you want to compare sales down to $21,000, BMW should get them too, Audi should get to add the Volkswagen CC, Tiguan and Toureg, because those are priced higher than similar Buicks. Bottom line is Cadillac is GM's luxury brand, it is the one with the task of targeting Lexus and the Germans. Cadillac is targeting the non-cheap-$h! Germans. Not all German made MB/BMW are to the same built quality/standard as the S Class and 5 Series. The CLA costs more than a Buick LaCrosse, and no BMW or Mercedes or Audi costs $21k like a Verano. The Germans have more up market products, say $75k and up, than the American and Japanese brands also. The Escalade and The LS460 and LX570 are it. What's funny is GM makes a car in that price category that'll roast the Germans in about any form of race you can think of.. it just wears a Bowtie loud and proud.

And at just a tad under 30k you get REAL LEATHER, 18inch wheels, 42hp, and 2tq over the CLA starting at 32k which gets "MB-tex", 17's and 208hp/258tq. but you do get a shiny Tri-Star logo!

And I will be sure to look at all of them! That "what if" with cars has always been fun to me, for who-knows-why reason.

I can tell you neither one have hit the press fleet yet. I was told this a few weeks ago when scheduling some GM vehicles for review. I don't know when they'll be hitting, but I have to guess it will be sometime in the near future. That didn't take too long.. lol http://www.motortrend.com/news/2017-cadillac-xt5-awd-first-test-review/

Agreeeeeeed I always liked Frisky's threads! I just didn't always have time to get and upload the pics because I have to do that on my phone from work(can't use work computers for that crap - lol ) so it's really time consuming to upload a bunch of pics.

1- I am still am...long in the tooth or not. The now 10 year old Jeep twins are beating sales pretty well.....and they are not even giving them away! Who knows....I'm seeing a truckload of new Malibus....could be the reason.... 2 Agreed!! Yeah no clue how those old as F Jeep twins sell..at all.. unless they're throwing heavy discounts on them. They just look so dated inside and out. With the Nox being a Chevy I expect it to sell fairly well even if the product was sub par just because of availability and if it weren't selling hot GM can afford to throw some money at it regardless to get them to move. My local dealer has a TON of the new Malibus already. Very sharp looking car. I originally hated it, thought it looked terrible. Now, it's grown on me quite a bit. The only thing that kind of annoys me about it is the LED fog lights.. I feel like they should be flipped over. I don't like the angle of the bend. Picky? Yep. It wouldn't keep me from buying one though.

Yes..and no.. I mean the reliability of an engine/drivetrain isn't going to sell me but if it is known for expensive issues it will turn me off of the vehicle. Not all used cars have the same operating costs though and while you won't admit it MB/BMW/Audi run on the high side of that. Also, tires and brakes are easily observable and I would never buy a car that would need tires by the end of the next season.

Cadillac ATS Alright guys.. First it isn't a buy or sell really.. but more the idea. I've got the itch again for another vehicle but I'm not really sure why. I've been throwing around the idea of a used(40k and under miles) Cadillac ATS but it would have to have the 2.0T or 3.6. But after looking it seems the 3.6 are a little more than I'd like to spend and it isn't that perfect of a vehicle to overspend. So I was thinking.. First, as anybody driven one? What are your personal feelings about the car? Second, are there any known issues with the 2.0T that I should avoid or not? Is that the same 2.0 that was in the HHR SS and Cobalt SS? Third, what are all of your opinions on the car in general? For me to get it it would also have to have the LED/HID head light setup that makes a Caddy distinguishable from a mile away. I've found a couple that meet my criteria of sub 40k miles, black/white/silver/grey, and had the headlights that I want(which at that package level it also includes CUE that I need to fiddle with as well) Opinions, GO!

Winner winner!!! Very good point.

While this is true.. you will hardly be able to drive the car if you're looking for appreciation. And for that reason, I want the Benz. i want to be able to drive it whenever and wherever. This is also the era of Mercedes that I really started to like them across the board...

Surreal, That's one sexy looking wagon you pictured there!

Oh sorry I forgot my Beretta's door handle broke(stupid vertical style handle for anybody who remembers) and it was about $115. Trend or aerodynamic laws are forcing that body shape? https://spaceflightsystems.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/shaped.html

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). Want more? Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. Yeah, reliable cars. Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!! Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose. I'm going to bump this so hopefully all get to see the fantastic reliability that MB offers. And I'm going to help you because some people need a reality check. You want to like said brand? Fine. No one is stopping you. However, that should come with a healthy dose of reality to help cure any kind of brand related blindness. Very well said btw ccap. It's all true things that have happened too. And you know how much trouble my Fords and beretta gave me? My alternator went out on the Beretta, few batteries, and last year at 20 years old and 160k miles on it the trans finally went and needed a rebuilt and the rebuilt on that was only $500 more than the AC compressor on my C350. Fords never had an issue but this is the first one I've kept over a year, lol Both mustangs and SVT Focus were only mine for roughly 12-15 months each and my Escape is going strong still with no Ford appointments, just maintenance items so far. To your other post, Yeah well I've told her/her parents(who pay for it...) its a POS and a money pit but I'm not the one paying for any of it so it's not my decision. It's a little older(2005, I believe) and does not have start-stop..otherwise that would probably break on it too. Full disclosure, I like MB. I like MB a lot actually. If I had the money for a C or E class size cars from Europe I would buy Mercedes over BMW, Audi, or Jaguar pretty easily. I am just not blind to the fact that all of those brands I just listed cost out the ass if anything breaks outside of warranty. Way more than a domestic of Japanese brand. Pretty, perform very well, classy, expensive(every sense of the word).

That sucks.. I like Google too. lol I guess the newest FCA products will at least get modern user interfaces with their decade old cars.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). Want more? Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. Yeah, reliable cars. Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!! Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose. I'm going to bump this so hopefully all get to see the fantastic reliability that MB offers.

OK, was only going on the above charts- not sure very many people are at all up on the 88 alpha-numerics of MBs out there. Oh I doubt many out side of us crazies that know what the deal is with them. I tried to explain to the gf the new system and she just didn't get it or why they are doing it. I understand and like the tweak but not everybody will, and I understand that view as well.

CAFE. Their CAFE score is probably junk too because they're so small and don't get any better fuel mileage than a Fiesta/Spark/Sonic/Versa...etc. Fuel economy of a Smart car: Manual trans - 32/39/35(city/highway/combined) Auto trans - 34/39/36 Ford Fiesta 1.0: 32/45 Chevy Spark: 30/41 Nissan Versa: 31/40 Nissan Sentra: 30/40 Chevy Sonic: 29/40 An Altima will get 39mpg highway! That's only 3 automakers. And the Sonic, Spark, Versa, Fiesta all start cheaper than a Smart car and the Sentra starts at 16k and change. The Smart car is a joke.

Consumers have no idea what 'C segment is or means. All they understand is; more letters equal higher models, IE; GL > GLA > GLS. THAT, at least, makes sense on paper. There is no GL anymore though. All SUVs as GL(A, C, E, S - to correspond to their car counterpart) and cars are.. uhh.. C, E,..oh yeah alphabetic order..lol

Weird enough, there's one asshole in my town who has one. I hate that car so damn much. Spend like 13-15k on a Smart? Why not go to a Chevy or Ford dealer and pick up a Fiesta, Sonic, or Spark?!?!? Edit: Sorry Smart cars START at 15k. HA.

Lowest priced Camaro is still barely on lots. I don't kno what the f@#k GM is doing on that car, but if they want to regain the bottom sales they need to bring it. The 2.0L is just now hitting lots. Outta the 16,000 Camaros on sale.. Cars.com is reporting that only 1900 are 2.0L, and many of them are in transit It was done because I was comparing MID-LARGE sales between Caddy and Audi because I happen to own a CTS. There is a 2.0T at my dealer... 41k(marked down to 37k). WTF? Why would that car optioned that way be stocked? I understand it can be optioned and built like that but it doesn't seem like THAT is how many people will be buying them. For 41k you can have a well packaged SS...which is what any sane person would do.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). Want more? Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. Yeah, reliable cars. Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!! Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose.

It is absolutely NOT an old wives tale.

C'mon man. We all know every car can get marked up to ridiculous prices with pointless options. The base Camaro 2.0T is something like $27k, so already not cheap. The top turbo trim puts it at $31k. Loading it with every performance and aesthetic option is easily going to jack up the price to irrational levels. I know it can be done I just didn't expect to see one on a lot. Especially because that was the only new Camaro there. Just seemed more odd than anything to actually see one optioned like that on a dealer lot. It's certainly not the model I'd buy. That's the highest profit margin model, so they're probably hoping the newness will bring in buyers no matter what's under the hood. The V6 powered Camaro I keep building on the configurator when I'm bored has the highest trim below SS, RS pkg, and track braking/cooling for under $35k. Think of all the silly crap that must be on the $40,000+ turbo you saw!! Good lord I can't imagine all the little extra crap that's on it if you built a v6 with a goodies we'd want for 35k!