
turbo200
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Everything posted by turbo200
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that makes some sense. we all know the delta II model arrives next year or very soon after. the excelle is in the chinese top 10....so maybe they were working on an update when delta II got fasttracked....that is after all why we didn't receive an MCE for Cobalt, since Delta II is coming next year. with this the car the chinese yet again display a discipline for categorically meeting the market and driving Buick to the right position. With the Lacrosse and the Excelle, it is clear the Chinese priorities are in the right places, and we should be thankful American Buick hooked onto the bandwagon and will benefit from smart design choices. This is merely an update of an outdated small car, nonetheless it's realistically as upscale as it can get, whilst maintaining preset hardpoints.
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that sounds and looks real nice.
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to be youthful one does not have to be young by design. just able to recognize really great trends and have a good sense of design/fashion. you have to be able to know what appeals to youth, as well as across the board. knowing when something looks fresh, looks well sculpted, looks right is key. being able to see things in the lines, whether one appeals to a more feminine stroke, more aggressive, more laidback, more cool and easygoing, more bigtime luxury, or on the other extreme more taut, strong, to the point, dangerous. being able to apply these characteristics to something as simple and as important as lines is key in understanding marketing. being able to understand what those lines mean to today's people, how they interpret them and what drives today's people. what lines appeal to today's people, the kind of sculpting, the different expressions. it's not all that different from what drew people together in the '60's, which is why you see a resurgance of interest in those cars all the time. I know in terms of sculpting, reach for characterizations, and the use of the right lines, as well as understanding fashion, culture led that decade to be the best we've seen for design here, and it was all very much so led by GM. though this decade and the next are shaping up pretty quickly
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the first automaker to make a luxury prius or volt will score a huge hit. i can see a buick and cadillac hybrid sedan easily. The question is what are the priorities of these buyers. obviously, the prius is being used as an urban runabout, mostly. those people generally can also have a bigger SUV, the prius is thier daily around town car, the SUV comes up for necessity. there are plenty of well-heeld buyers who love the prius, love the tech, but could go with more upscale trappings and a great design. but at the same time they're not going to give up the confident powerful feeling from thier SUVs. When automakers can improve on existing battery tech, and introduce bigger cars that are still powerful and yet produce big mileage advantages, like 100% improvements, those will be huge hits obviously. this wagon doesn't sound like a great fit. if it looks tinny like the prius does then it may hurt the lexus image more than help. if it's able to look substantial, elegant, and avoid exaggerated futuristic design themes while communicating something different for lexus, something youthful and a technological look [similar to the effect the Space Up concept had on VW, but a more luxurious expression]. it's all about priorities. a lexus hybrid buyer would still want something that looks classy and luxurious but also youthful for the hybrid newness feel.
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they should have gone for something bold and indicating luxury. the message is wrong and the presentation is all wrong. the presentation should be flashier, more eye-catching and rich. this campaign is all wrong, just show the inherent value and don't compare it to a 60,000 car, this will never get the right image. people will see the inherent value if you show them the car. interesting and good choice that the picture focuses on the slick yet unoriginal profile instead of the front end.
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lax safety regulations from that time led to impressive weights [relative to today] from the cars which led to better fuel economy. less of a fixation on hp. most importantly, the tests from today are strict, and I think it's easy to get better gas mileage, it all depends on your commute and what part of the country you're in. I believe the tests today take into account extreme city driving, which only occurs in extreme congested cities, though I'm only basing this assumption on seeing many reports of people beeating the city rating, and my own and friends' experience wiht our cars in the great city of Los Angeles.
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I know, doesn't it sound hot just envisioning it. This is the right way to spend marketing dollars, creating packages people will pay money to be seen in, not on crappy commercials that don't do the deeds or spot advertising on shows like Jimmy Kimmel or the The Price is Right. GM [and Ford] need to get creative in thier advertising spending and start hiring better marketing departments. Both Ford and GM could use an infusion of youthful talent that know the design/imaging changes that need to take place to get people to buy thier cars. Across the line at GM, all the cars and trucks could be helped majorly with just the right colors and wheel designs! For evidence look at a Malibu LTZ in silver and the two tone red interior. this car screams look at me, to the diehardest of MB/BMW fans and is styled in such a way to attract thier attention. Is anybody listening?
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this contempo class and style are exactly what I've been raving about for weeks. this contemporary style has not been evident at Pontiac in the last few years except in the G6 coupe [horribly proportioned as it may be] and the Solstice. gotta love that he mentions stripping the badges and the scoops and call this a BMW and that crowd would eat it up. he's right on, the styling is what convicts that crowd. they recognize a modern looking sedan and it's called a Euro car usually. so the G8 is a very large car, almost as big as a Taurus, wiht 107 cu ft, and gas mileage equals six cylinder competition, while V8 gas mileage trumps the competition!
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what's truly fascinating to think about are the days when Pontiac can become this. They can all start as well equipped base models with great powertrains and killer styling, but the move on up could include the eventual inclusion of such great tech that people like myself don't want live without. If I can have Dolby 7.1 and the latest killer Nav setup along with an interior that looks like its made of money, then that's what I want. And maybe someday I can have that in my Pontiac. [on the interior design/quality front, it would only require minimal upgrades in philosophy at Pontiac, and would justify a price increase over Chevy, as well as require Cadillac to move further upscale than it currently is.] EDIT: for anybody who is reading this the wrong way, I am not saying Pontiac has to offer everything a BMW does, DOHC included. I am saying they can offer their own version of perfomance coupes, sedans, wagons, verts for less expensive prices [though we hope Pontiac can move up the line from where it is today], but be able to offer optional high tech options that attract many import buyers.
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this is the kind of great press I'm talking about! he is a believer! what's GM's issue? what don't they believe in? the right drivetrain leads to great suspension engineering lead to great driving cars lead to great sales lead to improved customer satisfaction. hey GM, lay off the crack pipe long enough to recognize a good thing when you have it! if Ford says they can do RWD what's GM up to? The manual tranny needs to come as part of a package for the standard V8 car, make it like the Bullit Mustang currently is, just a couple of different real race-inspired, stealth, beautiful colors, beautiful wheel combo, two tone interior trim along with color-coded leather-stiched interior panels, maybe decontent a little, add racing seats, and bam! reinvigorate Pontiac and GM profits through good product! It's a remarkable formula, good product leads to cars people end up buying, and then the corporation gets money for what it's supposed to be doing, making good cars. Come to think of it, the British racing green color would look phenomonal on the G8, especially with better wheels, delete the hood scoops, bring in more chrome treatments, don't do a hood vent, and make a slightly aggressive lip spoiler like the outgoing C230.
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As I've said before regarding other GM cars, it's important GM look at the demos these cars have sold to. Los Angeles hosts a number of youthful GTO owners; I believe the GTO achieved a feat most other GM cars don't, it catered to typical import buyers. There's no doubt in my mind this design would work, though it would be nice if the three years quoted here for production were cut dramatically short, like say in half. The stance and sculpting present in this car is advanced from every other GM car currently produced. The stance represents the difference from an Escalade to a Range Rover Sport and the sculpting shows remarkable attention to detail like most GM cars' sculpting lack. The positioning I've talked about before. On the laurels of excellent engineering in Zeta, Pontiac should position this as the hardcore personal luxury coupe. They should head off the M3. even though the Camaro theoretically goes after BMW buyers, the Pontiac represents a total different style that will appeal to a different set of needs. This just makes a lot of sense.
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yeah, 777 is a good number. could be a sign. some quick math, remember Impala was at around 56% fleet sales last year, so take away about 30k sales for fleets and you're left with 40k. The last Malibu was also around 60% fleets.....it was at 36k sales at this time last year and is now at 42k. 60% of 36k is about 23k, so that leaves 13k retail sales through March for the last gen Malibu. taking the 122% retail increase and you get to about 33k retail sales, which sounds about right and normal. If GM is only doing about 3k/month for fleet sales for Malibu and keeps this consistent level that'll translate to a 220-250k/year [assuming increased sales over coming months] sales car doing 36k fleets. That's a sound level for a mass market car.
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Todd Lassa: GM and Ford's rear-wheel-drive strategies
turbo200 replied to wildcat's topic in General Motors
once again displaying a loose version of facts. let's first off talk about the mainstream models, since that's what the mainstream buys Mercedes Benz GL550 4matic v. Cadillac Escalade AWD v. Tahoe 4wd MSRP $77,000 $58,000 $34,000 total tow capacity (lbs) 7500 7700 7500 fuel economy 13/17 12/18 14/20 hp/torque 381/390 403/417 320/340 seating capacity 7 8 8 I seem to remember the Cobalt being around the weight you quoted, and I know the other two are correct [though I don't know that we have an exact weight for the CTSv]. Compare the Cobalt to the Civic and I think the difference is greater, I think it's something like 2900 lbs. Every other post doesn't have to be about the defficiencies in GM cars' weight. though you have a very valid point, mostly people here get it. -
Todd Lassa: GM and Ford's rear-wheel-drive strategies
turbo200 replied to wildcat's topic in General Motors
I understand this is how it may come across when people compare the various pros and cons associated with each car, and then posters likeme proceed to rip apart the design, which is the basic concept of the car, so it's a little like saying 'this thing is all wrong from the beginning.' That is kind of what I'm saying about many of thier cars, Lacrosse, Impala, STS are all cars I can think of off the top of my head I would be able to come up with strong points on how spending the money to amke them doesn't make sense. additionally, I can say those cars make very appealing used car buys, because of the impression of luxury they can give but don't successfully convey.....so I can think of friends who would say that would make a great first car, you know with the right wheels it would look cool, but you give that consumer a few more years to mature, put him in an upscale environment, and that same consumer will come back, buy a new car, and demand no less than the best in terms of design in terms of quality and in terms even of performance. No one is saying people who buy GM are foolish. There are still plenty of reasons people buy GM, some valid, solid powertrains, familiarity and good experience, protectionism, but chief among the reasons is always a good price. Check this very site, a GM fan site, and read the posts of those who recently bought GM cars, excepting hot vehicles like Malibu, Enclave, and CTS [worth the money], you'll find everyone boasting about what kind of a deal they got on thier car. If GM cannot get its own loyalist fans to pay the full price for thier cars, or something more average and according to the industry, then there is something very wrong. That's all we're trying to say. Not knocking any Lacrosse owners, or Lacrosse fans, when you look at it as basic transportation, it's a decent piece, and it'll get you from point A to B with a feeling of solidarity around you. But there are so many things wrong with it, I don't know where to begin. and putting it in the perspective of the marketplace, and comparing it say another reasonably close priced car, the MB C-class, and there is literally several oceans of difference in thier appeal. And you can understand why no buyers would actually pay C-class prices for the current Lacrosse. We want GM to appeal to buyers across the spectrum, including the inference of young successful urbanites all the way to families and individuals living in more rural areas. Ignoring one segment of that population is tantamount to defeat. -
2009 Malibu, Malibu Hybrid, and Cobalt Changes Posted
turbo200 replied to caddycruiser's topic in Chevrolet
malibu is such a wondeful car. in terms of looks at least it's easily the best looking sedan under 30k. 2 years from now when the cobalt and camaro come through will be an exciting time for chevy cars. hopefully GM can come through with the zeta impala as well. then you have the mpv, the equinox and the now quintessential GMT 900s. chevy is really never ever product starved. -
the smoothed out styling, odd proportions, and just jello-y surfacing all add up to a G6 that looks like a relic of the '90's compared to today's fit-looking sedans. i wish they could do some minor work that would result in major changes, like the 9-3 but that car had a very good base to begin with and the substantial changes and new Saab face all work real well for that car. G6 needs changes regardless. GM should not just neglect this car any money, but I guess they go by brand and not model and right now Pontiac is getting some kind of infusion. At the cost of a midsize car that used to be among the 10 best selling cars, at least under a previous iteration. Pontiac should not become GM fleet central. They should just develop a GM 'no-name' for that role. something dumbed down from a chevy, and then let the brands fleet out smaller numbers.
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Todd Lassa: GM and Ford's rear-wheel-drive strategies
turbo200 replied to wildcat's topic in General Motors
not sure where the G8 fits in on the EPA guidelines [?} regarding midsize/fullsize, but just based on my experience the G8 was as large as the full-size rated Accord and bigger than a Maxima. It felt as comfortable and spacious as the Accord, perhaps the seats were even more comfortable. the Maxima, current gen, is far behind both in this respect. G8's drive, being that its RWD, I think will win over many buyers, and definitely through a combination of solid chassis, great steering feel, neutral handling, etc. But that's not what you're saying. For the weight of the car, with the G8 at least, I think it is a little closer to being reasonable, since it is much much larger inside than a Malibu. -
Bryan is responsible for the current Chevy look, the Malibu, HHR, GMT 900s all done under his tenure. Lump in Impala as one he improved on but couldn't do much to [given the hardpoints that were there and GM's pressure to appeal to conservative buyers]. Bryan's only been head of car design for no more than two years now. With the Chevy line he really crafted an enduring look. Though it was criticized for its plainness, the attention to surfacing detail with the 900s, Malibu, and HHR really give the lineup a completed look and with the addition of Malibu one of best looking lineups for a general carmaker in the biz. They all share a clean and modern asthetic that brings the Chevy lineup forward and ahead of rivals Ford, Toyo, and Nissan. Honda is right up there with forward thinking, but the execution isn't so good sometimes. Next up would be a great large car [impala], and a great small car, as well as revisions to a midsize pickup truck line that is beyond aging and another enduring "what's old is new again" design, Trailblazer. The Equinox can go right away please.
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C&G At NYIAS Photo Gallery: Cadillac
turbo200 replied to z28luvr01's topic in New York International Auto Show (NYIAS)
Your point is nothing short of excellent. I completely agree and think it's mere GM corporate bobbleheadedness. The Cadillac is a response to what they view as a failed pricing strategy with SRX, and Cadillac at large. They've failed to understand the market demographics, if you ask me. Because around here, the SRX sells, strongly, I mean I see it quite a bit. It's one of the more homely choices, though still exciting in its own way, and when modded particularly its aggressiveness and edginess are emphaized. But in standard trim it's looking outdated, compared to the much cooler Cayene, M-class, FX, X5s of the world. Those all present luxury in a more austere, domineering, uncompromising way and do so while looking richer too. Yet you have an SRX that still gets buyers around here. Then it sells strongly on top of that. GM as always sells itself short and suggests its the brand that cannot draw those kinds of buyers, when it was the styling dept and originally design/conceptualization that failed both the SRX and STS. Yet those are both decent sellers around here, yes they are on the bottom half of the most popular sellers around here, but with the wealth of choices available and the people on each side telling what is fashionable about thier car, it's a nice accomplishment. They would attract more of the right kinds of consumers if they made the right fashion statement with their cars. I think I come to your defense more often than not. So that should tell you how often I think you're right. I think the only thing I would suggest to you is you sometimes may lay it on too thick both in terms of numbers of posts you use to spell out the same point and the points you make which sometimes can be overstated, but I go back to the basis of what you're trying to say, which is GM should get better, needs to get better, and I think that's a good thing to say. -
Todd Lassa: GM and Ford's rear-wheel-drive strategies
turbo200 replied to wildcat's topic in General Motors
Absolutely Reg. This is something I didn't elaborate enough on earlier in one of my posts, but the the driving experience really is the completion of the package when it comes to a car. And one of the major driving forces for why so many people in America, but especially in urban parts of the country have gravitated towards more solid driving experiences/packages. I just can't emphasize enough how the driving experience is really the last part, the clincher, the climax. First thing is you see the car, you envision yourself in it, you eihter fall head over heals, or you're just okay with it. you wouldn't be looking at a car that's at least passable in your eyes. You can be the kind of driver to pore over the exterior lines, interior feel, or maybe not. Maybe you look at the storage, whatever, but you climb in and you feel how it fits you. The last thing that happens is your hand touches the wheel, you wanna go for a spin. This is the last and most crucial part of the sell, the drive. As AMericans we've been fortunate to be able to experience both fun and powerful cars that have us spoiled. But when it comes to driving experiences, Americans have historically lagged. Now fast forward to today and a lot of American cars offer solid driving experiences, but it wasn't too long ago when sloppy and slushy were common descriptives applied to American makes. So the driving experience is a huge part of the sell. Power delivery, suspension stability, brake strength, steering feel.........the better you can get at these the more chances you have of selling your car. Of course, getting them in the car is the clincher. And for those two things I think the G8 will do very well. -
right, so this isn't newsworthy. this is known and is well expected since they are basing thier sales on product that is all at least 6 years old in terms of engineering at least. What's newsworthy is how much mileage Saab is getting out of this new look. I'm starting to see 9-5 wagons, 9-3s popping up everywhere. and the sportcombi has always been kind of a sleeper hit. I
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Mark LaNeve: Camaro won't be positioned as a muscle car
turbo200 replied to Oracle of Delphi's topic in Chevrolet
it won't grab those looking for the stature of BMW, but that's only a defined segment of buyers. There are many just looking for a distinct good looking coupe with sophistication and an image for chicness. There are parents who just buy thier little girls the latest image car, and 2 doors just works so perfect for them [if you get what tone I'm coming from here.] In short I think it'll end up taking some buyers, but not serious hardcore BMW buyers. just the ones that would also cross shop the G37. -
Mark LaNeve: Camaro won't be positioned as a muscle car
turbo200 replied to Oracle of Delphi's topic in Chevrolet
Right. the goal is to eventually get it to where it can be seen as a competent BMW competitor, but it needs a generation, a better product foundation at Pontiac, and a little higher level of finesse. I've had to eat some crow on my G8 comments. Saw it in a different color and without chrome aftermarket wheels that I saw on the original car, and it's not the best looking car at GM anymore. It's the third best looking car. Nor is it really a stand apart car. It's got an aggressive front end that asks to be noticed and the rest of the car is muted. It's sophisticated but muted. All that being said, my comments about expectiations for it still stand. Just that it is more of a good Maxima competitor than a viable BMW convert with really muted style it possesses. -
C&G At NYIAS Photo Gallery: Cadillac
turbo200 replied to z28luvr01's topic in New York International Auto Show (NYIAS)
Even though smk's ideas of 'facts' are as cemented in reality as Homer Simpson's at times......at least 40% of the time he is on the right side of the argument. Displaying his loose interpretation of facts here, he cites the upcoming BRX as just a Vue, and reality is obviously far removed from us smk. I think you've got some major blinders on if you think you are convincing many here or making winning arguments. If I give you credit for one thing it's a cogent argument based on one factor we're all quite unpleased with: the increasing obesity of GM cars. That's if you care about what you're putting out and how it reflects on you. Another point for you is, each time you make a good point, you go and make five other bad points based on completely infactual garbage, like this. The Vue is not going to be the base for a platform that has a mixture of Theta and Epsilon. You're only point in doing this is to try and make GM seem more like perpetual screw ups then they already are based on exaggerations of the truth. You must become balanced if you want respect and credibility otherwise you just sink to the bottom of the post heap. It's kind of like Hilary Clinton, she can keep on lying and pretending like it's not going to catch up to her and people won't catch on, but eventually the truth comes back to get you. I completely agree with you on the concept of killing the SRX for a smaller vehicle that will potentially and likely come in around the same weight. I'm also in total agreement the SRX has the best Caddy interior, potentially the best GM interior. So fundamentally, your argument should be based on a positive image of the SRX and a positive vehicle overall, and seemingly another mistake in GM squandering not only name recognition, but a market segment as well. -
C&G @ NYIAS Photo Gallery: Saturn
turbo200 replied to z28luvr01's topic in New York International Auto Show (NYIAS)
I don't think it's the right color considering the dull lighting and the completely counterproductive non-contrasting same color red background!!! Seriously, that is a dumb move characteristic of GM. Lessen the appeal of thier cars, try to refute the whole point of coming to see the car and judge it based on its looks. Anywho, this color in this light drowns out the wonderful sharp lines that mark the real appeal of the Flextreme for me, a flowing design with a sharp edgy characteristic.