Z-06

Do I sense that Love is in the Air?

Amen. Flexibility is the key to success - even if it means chaos sometimes. Man comes and goes without those material possessions, yet he finds liking to them in the time in between.

:rotflmao: Pole position

That is the irony. During great depression people were being more aggressive, more inventive to get everybody out of the downturn. Now it seems like people are being mediocre, spineless and less inventive about tackling the problems. They are more chicken hearted than lion hearted.

Camino, you have given some good advices to me over the past. I would like to give you my thoughts on this one. Your emotions are currently high, and like I said you have right to be pissed off at GM, but reconsider your ideas about C&G, your mod power has kept some sanity in here. Also give your self a trip and time off from everything. Just take your mother truck, or father wagon and go somewhere where nobody knows you. Rekindle your life and come back rejuvenated. It is reacting which is killing America, and I think time has come for Americans to be proactive again, and your tilting windmills quote is a better example.

Camino, I understand your emotions and you have right to be feeling that way. As a company GM has failed you and has failed many an enthusiast over these 4 years. GM has great plans, but it is implementation which is going haywire. I think it is time not only for enthusiasts like you to show GM that you are serious when it comes to not having cars you have desired but also you can very well snub them for what you have not got. Somehow people in Renaissance center keep constantly forgetting that it is not about them it is about customers. The key to success is to feed the customers while creating your own identity. GM is not only creating its own identity by following imports in their game, but also loosing their own valuable customers. Like Warren Buffet says cater your main customers first, the rest will come. GM seems to forget that strategy. By disowning their loyal customers they are shooting a goose which lays golden eggs. I have always mentioned that it pains me that GM does not offer manual transmissions in mid-sizers, or high output V8 in their single cab 1500 trucks, or navigation in their vehicles. These numbers may be small, but if you start counting them they add up big time. I think by looking too optimistically to the bigger picture, GM is forgetting the smaller components of the bigger picture which greatly help to make that picture a reality. I have doubts about GM more than ever. They need some renaissance in the Renaissance center. Freedom from bean counters, pencil pushers, negative nannies, seat huggers and boot lickers is essential in that building.

Edmunds have messed the specs. It has always been 2.0L turbo mill. Not a bad vehicle. At least they had guts to continue, knowing fully that volume of sales may not beat mustang or Z.

GM has been continuing its "review" endless number of time NOT now. I am starting to believe GXT -> Yes I said so, that GM does not have ANY plan. For the umpteenth time. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: This quote should go for one of the most unintelligent statements for 2009. What is sporty and fun to drive apart from G8, and Solstice GXP? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Another one for the competition above. What is strong other than G8 and solstice????? What is the vision -> to throw the brand into abyss? What does that have to do with the sedan? GM needs a reality check. I am not a Pontiac person, but like I have always emphasized a lack of long term, salient, strong, and undeterred strategy is what is DESTROYING GM. If GM needs to be successful and be profitable again they have to have some balls and implement some bold moves. This action and those supporting comments have put GM back on square one. I honestly think the guys in Renaissance center have hearts on their sleeves and brain in the toilet all the time. I think Ford is miles better than GM as at least they are sticking to their guns and moving, GM on the other hand have wasted more by these knee jerk actions than gained any by canning the products half way through. All that development, retooling, advertisement $ have been wasted. If GM would not have planned a RWD Impala, G8 ST, and other cars in the first place, they would have saved even more money. GM would have at least made enthusiasts hope that future would arrive with better cars. With these ambivalent moves they are even ruffling feathers of their die hard customers, and they want to lure import brand people? GOOD LUCK GM you are on path of anti-recovery faster than ever! I am starting to lose faith in RW and co. whom I supported openly for being a farsighted fella.

I am meeting you when I am in Detroit.

Were you dreaming or you won a Powerball?

My condolences to you Drew. Great men like your great grand dad will be missed by the world, both as an inspiration and as a leader.

So he is used to get down into the abyss before resurfacing. Another reason why the brand will not call it quits.

I think this math can need some change. Basically it is Mileage/~2000. For a 50K mile MY1970 car is 25.38 years old while a 50K MY2000 car is 25.0 years old and a 50K MY1900 car is 26.13 years old. They are not definitely the same age.

And they did it. They added the FWD model just as I had feared. . Good vehicle which will be blemished by this. Do not be surprised when the rags start hitting on the Luxury brand.

Ahh good one. It seems like they used the SC instead of TC. Still a major accomplishment consider the competition. If I remember it correctly Cobalt lost to Acura last year.

Absolutely. I also completely agree with your previous post about small cars. Most of Saturn's vehicles are "almost there but not really there." The job is not completely done - making excuses has not helped GM. Like enzl said we need one solid, no compromise small car in US from GM with complete engineering efforts in every design aspect. Astra does not fit this bill and neither does any of GM small cars in US market.

Fabulous color and a great choice for a vehicle. Helloooo new year. Congrats.

Reread my post, what I am stating is GM has not put complete effort in Saturn to a point that the flaws are glaringly obvious. Saturn vehicles are much better than before and yes I have driven all of them save the barn Outlook. However, none of them was ground breaking enough to justify the up levelness GM was trying to portray Saturn. I am praising the Sky just as you are. But what about those power window switches, or get out and pull up the roof, or those bezels which glare in your eyes with top down or the non existent trunk or portly weight? Those anamolies may be small for GM fans but to convince import transplants you need something more. Yes incompleteness does occur, but not to a point where there is nothing to cover your good points (read lack of marketing). When those shortcomings go MIA in the next vehicle, (Aura to Malibu) why would even a GM fan get a Saturn? GM could have spent that money from Aura wisely on Malibu to make it even better. Vue will be irrelevant once the Equinox hits the dealerships. Vue 2-mode Hybrid with ONLY FWD? Is that a small mistake? It is a great ride, but come on, budget SUV people are looking for fuel sippers not something which gives 1mpg better than its much bigger brother while hauling significantly less stuff. Again, Equinox will eradicate that fuel economy stigma. Astra is a great handler, but as I said, GM bummed up for not knowing how to position that car. When the crosstown German rival (VW) was offering a more powerful car at same price and more standard features, who would want the Saturn. No armrest, neither enough cup holders (one is not enough), lack of plug in connectivity, which exists in cheaper Cobalt - yes Americans need these features. It is not fair for GM to let a customer know sorry pal you cannot have those features, as they are irrelevant. Well the customer comes back and says sorry pal you cannot have my money as your product is irrelevant. Outlook took the development dollars off the other lambdas; people would argue that Saturn does not have "dealer power" as the reason of Outlook lagging other three. But if Saturn is so spectacular about their service – like many here and in GM like to believe, then why is it languishing in the bottom of the heap for customer retention? The mistake GM made is to put Saturn a step above without any signals for the customer. Again, it was what GM wanted, not Saturn's customers. If GM would have improved the quality and bumped the price a little, and not had Outlook or the Aura they could have spent development dollars elsewhere. Astra should have come with better features and more options - including powertrain, while keeping Sky, Ion should have been replaced with Astra sedan. Then Saturn would have possibly seen the turnaround. Personally, I think Corsa should have been in Saturn stable while the platform was being developed. With Fiesta coming out, Fit in and other products garnering reviews, GM will be again playing the reactive game. Ironic was Jill Ladziak calling Aura the sport sedan and when reporters asked where is the manual transmission she said it does not have one but you can use the manumatic mode – yeah right. What Saturn execs were hoping is that the customer would come to the salesman and say voila, I did not expect that from Saturn and buy. Well the customer did say voila, but when they heard the price, they also said voila not worth for a Saturn. Baby steps are important not a giant stride while not supporting the stride by a strong marketing campaign, failure will happen. At release of Aura Lutz said if this product blitz does not save Saturn, then I am running out of ideas. The quote now looks prophetic. May be he was placating Saturn execs while waiting for the inevitable, or may be it is a mere coincidence.

Joe said it much better. Once my F150 had a flat, and the TPMS apparently did not detect the spare. The dealer had to reset the system. I thought it was a glitch, but WMJ explanation pretty much sums everything.

TPMS was optional on 2005 possibly for lower models. I think it became standard in 2006 or 2007 - a year before NHSTA made it mandatory on Full Size SUV and Trucks. The 4x4 buttons are easy. In standard mode the vehicle is in default 4x2. The top button is usually activated when there is sudden loss in traction. The middle one is 4x4 high. The lower one is 4x4 low. For transferring to 4x4 mode you have to put it in neutral hence that N between the first and second button. Usually I have seen the high 4x4 getting engaged at speeds lower than 15 mph, at least on my F150. GM may be different - as I have never driven their automatic 4x4 systems.

Come to think of it every vehicle bar the Sky which GM gave Saturn as part of their "turnaround" plan seemed like a half-hearted effort. Aura - good car, but underwhelmed and plagued with little quality problems and guess what rags picked those tiny ones and burned the vehicle down, these problems virtually disappeared in the Malibu. Vue miles ahead of the old one and better than the competition, but botched and heavy, again rags picked it which lost performance and fuel economy perceptions for the Vue. Outlook - why did they need this vehicle? Those $$$ would have served better for other lambdas. Astra - great vehicle, marred by anemic engine and 4-speed with some design overlooks. With Astra GM was in a double mind. They were thinking whether to force it as a premium compact or a step above cobalt? In the end neither is happening. Adding to these glitches was the marketing campaign for each of these vehicle, which was/is terrible. Saturn with few vehicles, could have easily penetrated the city market by setting small shops, but marketing wallowed its growth. It is sad to see Astra despite being light years ahead of the plastic box Ion has barely managed to sell 25% annually compared to the plastic-fantastic dead sister. It just felt like GM was being a parent paying daily allowance to a whining stepchild who they wanted to turn 18 and leave the home for good. As a matter of fact barring trucks, Volt and possibly CTS, GM still is in double minds in every car and every strategy. Someone needs to tell GM to poop or get off the pot. Just make proactive decision and move on. The reactiveness is causing GM more harm than good.

You hit the nail, although I will replace the SUV with a diesel Truck. My garage would be possibly, Silverado HD2500 - if 4.5L Du-Di is not a possibility CTS coupe I am debating about the sedan Corvette Z06 - yeah will sacrifice convertible pleasure for a lil more HP. However I will need a project car to work on the tracks. Greedy? Hell yes. Man, moltie, I feel like going and having a year end splurge.

That is pimping. How about a CTS coupe instead of the sedan? That would even make it an ironic combo.

No, actually if Saturn had been ditched in 1994, then people would have had praised GM for doing that.

You could always end up with both and really stir up the economy with cross town rivals sharing the same roof rather than a CTS and a Maxima .