A Horse With No Name

Dude... If you just want this painted so it doesn't rust...and it doesn't have to be pretty...can get this done almost free for you. Have friends with paint guns. May not look perfect...more of a Cavi level fix than a Coblat level fix...but... Your overthinking things. Easy fix from either GM Warrenty, Bodyshop, or a back ally quickie. Enjoy your cars...with your family. Your wife is still young and good looking, you have a son who is growing up. AWESOME! Chris

Good luck...remember anything mechanical will break. Got some good contacts in the autobody biz down here, so if you need it fixed right/cheap or whatever, let me know. Also, post pics for 'blu. He will REALLY know what to do with this... Chris

I've been around/helped with autotrajic to manual swaps in vintage mustangs and late model VW TDI Diesels. Before I jump in, I need to know what is involved. Remember, we need to keep this under $500. Also, I am going to try to meet with a few guys that have done LeMons, and ask them about using the car as is with the autotrajic. Chris

Biggest issue right now isn't condition or cost, or even fixing accident damage. Biggest issue is automatic transmission. Trying to figure out if an auto is a deal breaker or not, or how hard it is to switch to a manual. Chris

Not even really planning on putting much of a doghouse back on the car if this is the car we run. Have one other driver who has raced before, who is 95 percent for sure. Another guy is interested...this third guy has a race car that we might be able to "borrow" a race seat and harness from. SA, how large are you...ht/wt? You can PM me if you want...but one of the guys who may be doing this with us is heavyset and one is 6'5. Another question-I have another potential co-driver who has shown interest who is female. Does this present a problem for any of you guys? IF so, PM me. Chris

How hard is it to switch a 4th gen V6 F Body from autotrajic to row your own? Think we all know where this is going... Also...how weak are the rear ends on these cars? What other common failure points do they have? Chris

Trying to work things out for a LeMons car...I'll post more later. I'm going to hook up with an SCCA tech guy who is going to teach me about rollcages... I have a POSSIBLE source for some used safety equipment. Said Possible, don't get your hopes up yet. But possible. Checking out problems/issues with running an autotrajic in a race like this. Speeds at LeMons are a good bit slower than a typical SCCA/NASA type race, so I am much less worried about things than I was the last time I posted. Tend to be a guy who worries about and over analyzes everything....however...that has served well for the 44 years I've been on the planet. Looking into cages if we do run the 'Bird...Jegs has a cage kit...$299...I can has friends welder and friend is certified welder...can has cage maybe? Would need to add to cage structure. Also talked to a guy from Mt. Vernon Ohio who drag races a 10 Second V8 Vega and got to take a GOOD long look at the cage in the Vega. NICE work...if any of the other cage buys fall through, I may have another source. Showing pics of the "bird to a frame guy so I can get an honest opinion on repair. Checking out a couple of people I know with frame racks...going to see if I can get it done "free" so we save $$ and keep it under $500. Sadly, every 'bird and Camaro that was 4th gen and in a local yard seems to have been crushed within the last couple of weeks. One yard had 12 good parts cars...all gone Nearest Race to Columbus next year is Gingerman, which is 6 or 7 hours away. In 8 or 9 hours I could be at Road Atlanta, even towing a race car. So once we know who all is ready to do this we can pick a track and a date. Thinking if this happens this will happen later next year, as it will take me time to get car, get it put together, have it teched by local SCCA guys so we know it will pass LeMons Tech. Not sure we can pull this off...but I am working towards the goal. Wanted to talk to some of my SCCA friends at today's Rallycross but the Rallycross got cancelled because our racetrack...errr...ummm...the field we race in was wayyy to wet to race. Don't shoot me, but also thinking that the 'bird might be worth making into a real race car, one we could all enjoy several times...but don't worry, LeMons is still in my blood and still sounds like fun. Need help right now with creativity more than anything. Got any catchy team names, car decorating ideas, color schemes, themes, promotional ideas, sponsership ideas, et al...BRING IT! Next weekend I'm cleaning out my garage, so I've got room to work IF we get a car. Didn't want you guys to think that I had forgotten you. Not sure yet if it is the 'Bird...but trying to put together everything. PM me any thoughts or ideas, or feel free to post in this thread. Also have two local guys who MIGHT be interested in trying this...and the kind of people who would follow through. One is an SCCA guy who has run endurance races before, and another is a guy who has run an event like LeMons, only it was about 3 hours rather than 24. Experience can't hurt us. Meeting with one again in a couple hours and the other guy I'm meeting with again tomorrow. At this point, I am going to keep the discussion light until after the first of the year. If your thinking about this, you don't need to give me a quick YES or NO. I'd rather you think hard and give me an honest answer rather than telling me YES and then dropping out. Also...we could do this or something like it multiple times, so if you say NO this time it doesn't mean it's always NO. Thank you very much for your interest so far. Chris

Fixing the Firebird to run in LeMons is not the problem...assuming we choose the 'bird. Which seems somewhat logical. Getting a team together is the real part...who does what, etc. Chris

We need to start another thread on how we are actually going to do this-who will be in charge, how we will organize things, etc. NEED input from you guys! Like I said, I can do logistics but I cannot be the "ringleader" of the group. We need some kind of president/leader, a book keeper, etc. So Somebody figure out how we move forward...or help me figure it out. Chris

Where do you live in KY? How much of a Drive is Cinncinnati from you? To all of you guys-I don't care which car we race-I just want a GM car so we can all get together and do something cool. A V8 would be great, I just want us to be realisitic about the costs of fueling a V8 during a 24 hour race. If you guys are down for it, I am down for it. How do you guys want to "organize" our effort? ...and I'm not trying to sell anybody's abilities short by saying we need training or development to drive. I would say the same for myself as well. Chris

Perhaps, but a manual will work out much better IMHO. Thinking we need to think seriously about a lot of spares. Chris

Something like this would be PERFECT! Cage is one of the largest expenses. We can borrow a safety harness and a race seat. Fuel Cell would be really nice, and it would be easy to re-use it on another car. Also an easy Ebay or Craigslist Item. But cage is a major sticking point. Chris

Exactly...and remember this thing has to last 24 hours under ungodly stress. Chris

Whatever we do, if we do it...it would be good to have one running complete parts car in the paddock to pull from. Which is why I was thinking J body...keeping a spare Cavalier around would be cheaper than a spare 924. Also, a J body might be more like 8 years old rather than 25 or 30...something to think about. Chris

Since this is a GM forum, your going to do an Aurora in Intrepid clothing??? Chris

An S-10 is light in the rear, and they are easy to roll over in road racing. The SCCA had a class called ITT or Improved Touring Truck that was for small pick-em-ups like that. A few people still race them in the south, and the championship racing for the SCCA improved touring cars is at Road Atlanta in Georgia. A few show up their every year...mostly Nissan Hardbody trucks but a few S-10's have run in that class as well. They are a handful to drive at speed, and we will have a bunch of guys who have never driven on track before. As for the "getting old after 3 or 4 hours" thing...hmmm...thinking shorter driving shifts might be in order. Add to the problem of newbies racing will be racing at night...which freaks out even some guys who have raced for quite awhile. Biggest problem with an autotrajic is that with a manual you can use the compression of the motor to slow the car down by downshifting. Thus the heat energy is dissipated out the exhaust and out through the radiator. Autotrajics get hot towing, much less racing for 24 hours. As the old saying goes, to finish first, first you must finish. Chris

We need to figure out how to organize the team. I can do logistical stuff and I have contacts in the racing world...but I lack the leadership ability to run a team or the ability to get an injured car back on track at four in the ayem. Glad your interested. Chris

This might be a good way for us to do this. I am dying to get on track also... Chris

I have NO problem whatsoever with the car being GM. In terms of what will still be running at two in the ayem in the rain after we've beaten on it for ten hours, I'd honestly trust GM before I'd trust VW or BMW or Mazda. Simple crude and overbuilt can finish this race. However...remember that this is a 24 hour race. The Michigan TDI VW guys run a VW only garage in Ann Arbor and pull people in from all over to get their vee dubs fixed. They raced a Sirroco in an event...it ran 4 hours and spun a main bearing. They put a spare motor in it and not that long later it ate the ECU and some wiring and put them out of the race. So they ended up with about 6 hours of track time out of 24, but they had a great time. So the #1 thing is a car that will run 24 hours under severe, severe conditions. a 305 V8 Camaro or Firebird would be a great choice. But remember, a heavier car like that will eat tires and be hard on brakes. So we need to take that into account. Also...remember that this is not like driving on the freeway at 55 miles per hour. A V8 car in an SCCA endurance race will get 4-6 miles to the gallon, a V6 car will do about 6-9 miles per gallon, and a 4 cyl will be 10-11, 12 if you are lucky. If you run the full 24 hours at an average speed of say 70 miles per hour, your going to go 1700 miles. I used to crew for an SCCA endurance racing team, and we averaged about 11-12 MPG with a 4 Cyl. It took every bit of 100 gallons plus for fuel for practice, qualifying, and racing to run a twelve hour race. Multiply that by two for a twenty four hour race and then figure half the fuel economy. If gas goes back up, be prepared to spend maybe a grand on fuel alone. But I digress. Everyone that has done this says that I've talked to says that it is a ton of fun. Let's keep talking about this. Chris

So...more thoughts please. I am getting together with the VW TDI club, the MINI Club, the Buckeye Miata Club, and the SCCA guys this weekend. Am going to see if anyone else is interested. What kind of car would you guys really like to run, and who is really interested??? PLEASE, let's keep the discussion going! Chris

If you guys are up for it, I think Z06 and I may also be. Glad to see a response. Whiteknight, What do you want for the Bird? Thinking a manual tranny car would be better but... hmmm. Chris

Happy Birthday, guys!

Who here would like to get a GM car together for a run at LeMons? It's the race for $500 beaters that was in the link with the MR2 racing the Buick. Talking with people here that would like to possibly start a C and G team, let us know. Maybe we can actually get Oldsmoboi out from behind his computer and behind the wheel... This thread is for any comments or ideas, no matter how crazy or unrealistic. We are just in the talking stages/dreaming stages now, BUT...we can make this a reality if we want to. Thinking of perhaps running a J body Cavalier...but would be open to other choices. Although we may lose dave87rs as a forum member if the Cavalier is chosen for the People's Curse and destroyed! (just kidding Dave, know your love for Cavi's...) Chris

On the upside, they are eleventy billion times better looking than a CRV! Chris

Buick Grand National national is one of my fav. GM cars. Chris