Cadillac Dangles $5,000 to Lincoln Owners to Get Into An Escalade

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

No doubt that was a refreshing experience!
 

Not really..it was a rental van from U-Haul...it was loud and rough riding, engine made a strange clicking sound...but decent acceleration...now I feel broken and exhausted from shlepping boxes (and nightmare flashbacks to my move of earlier this year).     First time I'd driven a van in many years. 

Oddly enough GLS sales are up 9% this year and 2018 is the final model year for this generation.  Escalade and Navigator are both down this year.  So I guess width isn't a big deal for buyers.

42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Oddly enough GLS sales are up 9% this year and 2018 is the final model year for this generation.  Escalade and Navigator are both down this year.  So I guess width isn't a big deal for buyers.

Cabin width of the current model is probably very similar to the Grand Cherokee or Durango..which I find comfortable and wide enough.  Unless you are morbidly obese or built like an NFL linebacker, they are plenty wide enough.   I suspect MB customers aren't complaining about the width.   And since they sell the GLE and GLS in Europe and other places w/ tight parking and narrow roads, they can't build them as wide as the American truck-based SUVs...

Plus dimensions are a component of luxury. It's why a C-class doesn't start @ $95K. Most modern sedans are generally tight, what with overstuffed consoles, convoluted door panels, etc. Some people don't find it comfortable to spend any considerable time wedged into a singular position.

Pickup trucks with 40-20-40 seats are the best of both worlds.  You can fold down the center 20 portion and have a nice wide armrest and storage area, or you can fold it up and give your boys plenty of breathing space.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Oddly enough GLS sales are up 9% this year and 2018 is the final model year for this generation.  Escalade and Navigator are both down this year.  So I guess width isn't a big deal for buyers.

I will have to say that the market is going to cool off and everyone will be down in 2018 as people await a bevy of new EV / PHEV auto's in 2019 as 2020 models.

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

Plus dimensions are a component of luxury. It's why a C-class doesn't start @ $95K. Most modern sedans are generally tight, what with overstuffed consoles, convoluted door panels, etc. Some people don't find it comfortable to spend any considerable time wedged into a singular position.

Lots of $100k and up sports cars that are tight.   I doubt a Ferrari has any room in it yet people buy anyway.  G-Wagon is smaller than a GLE but people fork over double GLE money for it.  Sometimes luxury isn’t about size or even performance, it is about look at me, look at how much money I have.  

Are you comparing luxury SUVs to sports cars?

Seems BMW will beat MB to the punch as supposedly on Nov 29th BMW will show off at LA auto show their new X3e EV CUV.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113721_bmw-to-debut-electric-car-concept-at-la-show-electric-mini-makes-u-s-debut

Is BMW going to finally step up to Tier 1 with this, their 7th PHEV effort?
 

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

Seems BMW will beat MB to the punch as supposedly on Nov 29th BMW will show off at LA auto show their new X3e EV CUV.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113721_bmw-to-debut-electric-car-concept-at-la-show-electric-mini-makes-u-s-debut

Easy to do when you take a short cut.  Mercedes isn’t making an EV version of any existing car but rather coming up with an all new platform for all new 10 EV’s.  If the X3e has 250+ mile range and 400 hp then fantastic, if it is a compromised vehicle like the eGolf then pass on that.  The i3 is a compromised vehicle, make that thing drive like a 335i and then they would be on to something.

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

Are you comparing luxury SUVs to sports cars?

I am saying big money spenders in most cases aren’t looking for just a bigger vehicle.

 The old thinking is an SUV needs to haul 8 people and tow 10,000 lbs and the roominess or comfort is what makes it luxury.  

But then you have a Cayenne Turbo, Bentley Bentayga, forthcoming Lamborghini and Ferrari SUVs, etc. Then what is more “luxurious” a $90,000 full size Escalade ESV or a $300,000 Lamborghini Urus?

And people say a Lamborghini or Ferrari SUV is crazy, I bet for both brands it is their #1 seller.  

Since there is no production Urus currently, it's not it. But what's more telling is you compare a concept-only SUV to an established one & judge merely on a price tag. Different buyers are going to value different criteria in judging "more luxurious". To many it's features, room, comfort-  that's why the Germans built '3 sausages, different lengths' and charge more as they get larger. You surely don't think a Urus is going to ride better or be more comfortable than an Escalade, do you? It's a lifted Gallardo with AWD. Does anyone commonly associate luxury with Lambos? No.

19 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Pickup trucks with 40-20-40 seats are the best of both worlds.  You can fold down the center 20 portion and have a nice wide armrest and storage area, or you can fold it up and give your boys plenty of breathing space.

I prefer that as well. Plus there are times in my truck where six people had needed to fit and the only way to do that is with a bench seat in front also. Sadly it's getting increasingly difficult to find trucks with anything besides two bucket seats in front. 

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Since there is no production Urus currently, it's not it. But what's more telling is you compare a concept-only SUV to an established one & judge merely on a price tag. Different buyers are going to value different criteria in judging "more luxurious". To many it's features, room, comfort-  that's why the Germans built '3 sausages, different lengths' and charge more as they get larger. You surely don't think a Urus is going to ride better or be more comfortable than an Escalade, do you? It's a lifted Gallardo with AWD. Does anyone commonly associate luxury with Lambos? No.

The Urus could have no room and ride like crap and people will pay $300k for it, because it says Lamborghini on the back.  And that is my point, you don't have to have interior room or ride quality, there are people that want performance and will buy an SUV based on 0-60 time and Nurburgring time.  Which is why I have said for a few years GM needs to be in the performance SUV game before it is too late.  

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Urus could have no room and ride like crap and people will pay $300k for it, because it says Lamborghini on the back.  And that is my point, you don't have to have interior room or ride quality, there are people that want performance and will buy an SUV based on 0-60 time and Nurburgring time.  Which is why I have said for a few years GM needs to be in the performance SUV game before it is too late.  

IIRC, the Urus will be on the same platform as the Cayenne, Bentyaga, etc.... should be comfortable and a good performer...

2 hours ago, Scout said:

I prefer that as well. Plus there are times in my truck where six people had needed to fit and the only way to do that is with a bench seat in front also. Sadly it's getting increasingly difficult to find trucks with anything besides two bucket seats in front. 

They did away with bench seats in trucks a while ago, I think.

At least 3-4 years ago, right?

All the newer work trucks I see...all of them...from at least 2010 on...all of them with bucket seats. Even contractors order the buckets.

Yes...it is sad!

2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

IIRC, the Urus will be on the same platform as the Cayenne, Bentyaga, etc.... should be comfortable and a good performer...

It is on the same platform and it seats 4 people.  Lamborghini has already said it has a Lamborghini exclusive V8 with 650 hp, top speed is estimated at 205 mph, it had a sand dune mode, off road mode, and track mode, they say it will beat the Alfa Romeo Stelvio's Nurburgring record for an SUV.  And it starts at just $200,000, and they think it will double Lamborghini sales volume.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

there are people that want performance and will buy an SUV based on 0-60 time and Nurburgring time.

THAT'S NOT LUXURY.

You've wandered way off topic, yet again. Remember what you replied to?

Quote

Plus dimensions are a component of luxury. It's why a C-class doesn't start

@ $95K. Most modern sedans are generally tight, what with overstuffed consoles, convoluted door panels, etc.

24 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

They did away with bench seats in trucks a while ago, I think. At least 3-4 years ago, right?

The current SIlverado base truck comes with a 40/20/40 front seat- in that the armrest can be folded up & if there are center belts, I believe that's certainly akin to a 'bench' 3-abreast seat.

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Easy to do when you take a short cut.  Mercedes isn’t making an EV version of any existing car but rather coming up with an all new platform for all new 10 EV’s.  If the X3e has 250+ mile range and 400 hp then fantastic, if it is a compromised vehicle like the eGolf then pass on that.  The i3 is a compromised vehicle, make that thing drive like a 335i and then they would be on to something.

Clearly you are so blinded by MB cool aid that you have not read the info from BMW where they are using their i platform to build all new auto's, so the X3e is named to fit with the ICE X3, but is not a conversion of ICE but a true EV built on their dedicated EV platform.

You really need to learn to accept the fact that MB is not first in everything or first all the time in the auto industry. Every dog has their Day and MB day is not right now or in the near future, but playing catch up to Tesla and GM like everyone else.

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If the X3e has 250+ mile range and 400 hp then fantastic, if it is a compromised vehicle like the Mercedes Benz C350e then pass on that.

FIFY

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

They did away with bench seats in trucks a while ago, I think.

At least 3-4 years ago, right?

All the newer work trucks I see...all of them...from at least 2010 on...all of them with bucket seats. Even contractors order the buckets.

Yes...it is sad!

??? Fake news.  All of the fullsize trucks, even the Toyopet and Datsun, come with 40-20-40 benches (they can of course be optioned to buckets).  What you're seeing is the center section folded down.

2018 F-150 XLT with the center section folded.  You can see the headrest:

50 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Clearly you are so blinded by MB cool aid that you have not read the info from BMW where they are using their i platform to build all new auto's, so the X3e is named to fit with the ICE X3, but is not a conversion of ICE but a true EV built on their dedicated EV platform.

You really need to learn to accept the fact that MB is not first in everything or first all the time in the auto industry. Every dog has their Day and MB day is not right now or in the near future, but playing catch up to Tesla and GM like everyone else.

X3e is rumored for 2020, Mercedes will have theirs out before that and with more horsepower.   I hope BMW makes 10 electric cars, the more the merrier.  The more EV's out there the better they will get, the cheaper they will get.  The more companies pushing for the change, the faster it will happen.

Luxury and expensive are not the same thing. An S Maybach is luxury a Urus isn't... it's just expensive.  It's a toy for the rich... and it is a luxury to be able to own one, but that does not make it a luxury product.   It's the same reason a $50k C-class with plastic seats and a turbo-4 is questionable as a luxury product even though, yes, it is expensive. 

17 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

2018 F-150 XLT with the center section folded.  You can see the headrest:

yikes....

All this time I thought that that was a center console. Boy...I was mislead.

But in all honesty...I came to that conclusion as I read somewhere that even trucks were gonna eliminate bench seats.  So I saw what I wanted to see with the worker trucks that come to the drive-thru at my restaurant.

Or  maybe I read wrong.

Im not into trucks...so I am not familiar with truck trends.

So....thank you all for the infos.

I wonder what percentage of pickups are sold w/ the 'bench' described above vs buckets w/ fixed armrest..

Probably goes by trim level. When I glanced at Chevrolet.com under Silverado 1500 W/T, the only possibility was the 40/20/40. High Country prolly has a fixed console. Stupid in a truck, IMO.

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

Probably goes by trim level. When I glanced at Chevrolet.com under Silverado 1500 W/T, the only possibility was the 40/20/40. High Country prolly has a fixed console. Stupid in a truck, IMO.

There's a chart over there where you can compare standard features among trim levels.  I punched in LTZ extended cab, and the standard seat is a leather 40-20-40 bench.  The tippy-top trim, one level above LTZ, the High Country, has buckets standard.  So every Chevy has a standard 40-20-40 except for HC.  Now I will investigate Ford, Dodge, Toyopet and Datsun.

Now another thing. Let’s say like next year u start seeing some decent incentives or 2018 MY clear outs for this new Navi.

Will Cadillac then offer even more cash on the hood? The Escalade is their most profitable product on a per unit basis.

Hmmm....

20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Urus could have no room and ride like crap and people will pay $300k for it, because it says Lamborghini on the back.  And that is my point, you don't have to have interior room or ride quality, there are people that want performance and will buy an SUV based on 0-60 time and Nurburgring time.  Which is why I have said for a few years GM needs to be in the performance SUV game before it is too late.  

Probably why the people who buy the GLS over the 'Gator and 'Slade think. They don't care what's actually "better".

 "Oh look a German car, it has to be better."

6 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

Now another thing. Let’s say like next year u start seeing some decent incentives or 2018 MY clear outs for this new Navi.

Will Cadillac then offer even more cash on the hood? The Escalade is their most profitable product on a per unit basis.

Hmmm....

I doubt it.. I bet this is just good timing to get their 2017's off the lots while slapping Lincoln in the face. 

6 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Probably why the people who buy the GLS over the 'Gator and 'Slade think. They don't care what's actually "better".

 "Oh look a German car, it has to be better."

Depends on what a buyer finds to be "better."   The GLS is a unibody SUV, it is the Cadillac CT6 lightweight of the segment, yet it also has the most powerful engine in the segment.  Escalade, Navigator, QX80, LX570 are all built on modified pick up truck chassis.   So if tow rating is #1, then the pick up truck frame is important, if you don't tow, and I have never seen a trailer behind an Escalade, Navigator, GLS, QX80 or LX570, then maybe that doesn't matter.

It also has way less power than a Gator or Slade... You have to spend 95k to get an engine to complete with the Gator or Slade in a GLS. 

Oh I've absolutely seen trailers behind Escalades, much less Navigators(probably because they sell so much less). Ever go to a race track? I always see at least one or two Escalades as tow vehicles. I bet if I were to frequent lakes there would be able the same amount there as well. 

51 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It also has way less power than a Gator or Slade... You have to spend 95k to get an engine to complete with the Gator or Slade in a GLS. 

Oh I've absolutely seen trailers behind Escalades, much less Navigators(probably because they sell so much less). Ever go to a race track? I always see at least one or two Escalades as tow vehicles. I bet if I were to frequent lakes there would be able the same amount there as well. 

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Depends on what a buyer finds to be "better."   The GLS is a unibody SUV, it is the Cadillac CT6 lightweight of the segment, yet it also has the most powerful engine in the segment.  Escalade, Navigator, QX80, LX570 are all built on modified pick up truck chassis.   So if tow rating is #1, then the pick up truck frame is important, if you don't tow, and I have never seen a trailer behind an Escalade, Navigator, GLS, QX80 or LX570, then maybe that doesn't matter.

Perhaps not a trailer but I see people hauling their boats all the tie with Escalade and Denali. Maybe because where U are from U guys don't have access to the BIG OCEANS. 

I've never seen a blue Escalade. That looks pretty sharp. I usually only see black or white but that blue looks really good. 

And that's a tiny boat on the Escalade... lol At least it is not ocean worthy. 

I can say this- I've seen more Escalades towing than I have Tundras. Whatever that metric may mean.

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Depends on what a buyer finds to be "better."   The GLS is a unibody SUV, it is the Cadillac CT6 lightweight of the segment, yet it also has the most powerful engine in the segment.  Escalade, Navigator, QX80, LX570 are all built on modified pick up truck chassis.   So if tow rating is #1, then the pick up truck frame is important, if you don't tow, and I have never seen a trailer behind an Escalade, Navigator, GLS, QX80 or LX570, then maybe that doesn't matter.

Trailering is common behind all those luxury SUV's on the west coast, guess we play with toys more.  

Towing with Escalades is very common, I see the following all the time around washington state.

We used to trailer with our cars:

Now in modern day, we trailer with our Escalades:

Even though I think sometimes too much boat is pulled with them.

LOL a boat that big causing that much sag.. definition of more money than brains. 

18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Depends on what a buyer finds to be "better."   The GLS is a unibody SUV, it is the Cadillac CT6 lightweight of the segment, yet it also has the most powerful engine in the segment.  Escalade, Navigator, QX80, LX570 are all built on modified pick up truck chassis.   So if tow rating is #1, then the pick up truck frame is important, if you don't tow, and I have never seen a trailer behind an Escalade, Navigator, GLS, QX80 or LX570, then maybe that doesn't matter.

I took that pic... it's not a google image search.   Interestingly, the vehicles could be reversed and still within the towing limits of the car.   Try doing that with an S-Class.

13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

I took that pic... it's not a google image search.   Interestingly, the vehicles could be reversed and still within the towing limits of the car.   Try doing that with an S-Class.

That Caddy can tow north of 5000lbs?!? 

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That Caddy can tow north of 5000lbs?!? 

The '96 Fleetwood could be factory equipped to tow 7,000lbs.   

That's right... Grandpa's Caddy can tow more than most modern crossovers. 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I've never seen a blue Escalade. That looks pretty sharp. I usually only see black or white but that blue looks really good. 

And that's a tiny boat on the Escalade... lol At least it is not ocean worthy. 

Blue one loading up lumber the other day at Lowes....seemed strange to see such an expensive vehicle haling 2 x 4's and plywood.

And it was stuffed to the gills...

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The '96 Fleetwood could be factory equipped to tow 7,000lbs.   

That's right... Grandpa's Caddy can tow more than most modern crossovers. 

I miss the old V8 RWD sedans.

39 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The '96 Fleetwood could be factory equipped to tow 7,000lbs.   

That's right... Grandpa's Caddy can tow more than most modern crossovers. 

Holy sh!t!  

That's double what my Escape could tow, 3500lbs. 

34 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Blue one loading up lumber the other day at Lowes....seemed strange to see such an expensive vehicle haling 2 x 4's and plywood.

And it was stuffed to the gills...

I love seeing luxury rides still being used for what they were originally designed for(the chassis, that is). 

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Holy sh!t!  

That's double what my Escape could tow, 3500lbs. 

It's more than any V6 gasoline crossover today and only 400lbs less than a V8 Durango or Grand Cherokee.  

The Colorado is the only mid-sizer that tops it as well. I think that Taco is 6000-something. 

36 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The Colorado is the only mid-sizer that tops it as well. I think that Taco is 6000-something. 

I think the diesel Colorado is rated for over 10,000 pounds...

Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

I think the diesel Colorado is rated for over 10,000 pounds...

7,700