Spying: 2020 Cadillac Escalade Makes An Appearance

So from the first couple paragraphs, it sounds like the '20 Escalade will have an IRS (17 years after the Navigator) and an optional DOHC V8 (21 years after the Navigator)...

Just now, Robert Hall said:

So from the first couple paragraphs, it sounds like the '20 Escalade will have an IRS (17 years after the Navigator) and an optional DOHC V8 (21 years after the Navigator)...

Yes....and back to the Escalade...car pics just because I am bored and being silly.

Ok...back to Escalade...

6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

So from the first couple paragraphs, it sounds like the '20 Escalade will have an IRS (17 years after the Navigator) and an optional DOHC V8 (21 years after the Navigator)...

The engine not being DOHC never really surprised me and I don't think it was a necessary upgrade but I am surprised they never adopted IRS sooner. 

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The engine not being DOHC never really surprised me and I don't think it was a necessary upgrade but I am surprised they never adopted IRS sooner. 

I just assumed that was GM being cheap.  

44 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I just assumed that was GM being cheap.  

It probably is but at the same time, what's wrong with it? 

Is it them being cheap in the Escalade or them balling out in the much cheaper Camaro/Silverados? 

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It probably is but at the same time, what's wrong with it? 

Is it them being cheap in the Escalade or them balling out in the much cheaper Camaro/Silverados? 

Not having IRS on a full size SUV is pretty 20th century at this point... the advantages of having IRS would outweigh any disadvantages, I think...better ride, lower floor and more cargo space, etc. 

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Not having IRS on a full size SUV is pretty 20th century at this point... the advantages of having IRS would outweigh any disadvantages, I think...better ride, lower floor and more cargo space, etc. 

Oh IRS, I definitely agree. I was only thinking you were talking about the lack of DOHC for some reason.

Yeah, IRS should have been available quite awhile ago. Especially with how much money that thing makes. 

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Oh IRS, I definitely agree. I was only thinking you were talking about the lack of DOHC for some reason. 

Well, I think that is because they took forever to commit to Cadillac having it's own V8 engine family again instead of sharing w/ Chevy & GMC...again, being cheap. 

I dont think IRS was needed in the Escalade. For many reasons, but for one big one. 

It was kinda the only game in town, and it sold (and continues to sell) like hot potatoes.

Dont fix if it aint broke.

 Their sedans and coupes and in their car based CUVs desperately need DOHC.  

In the Escalade, I dont think it matters much.  But I do believe that displacement is a must in the Escalade.

@smk4565 thinks that 0-60 times, and all that, is important to the Escalade buyer. It is not!

The Escalade buyer just wants his big ass Cadillac. 

And big ass Cadillacs are big in every way. 

In bling, in grilles, in length, in width, in arrogance, in engine size.

Rolls Royce Phantom...seems like their 6.75 liter V8 was under the hood since forever. 

And their V12 that they put in their cars and SUVs today?  Seems like BMW did not want to fool around with that formula and for the last 15 years or so, the BMW V12 that Rolls Royce uses is exactly the same displacement as that V8: 6.75liters!!!

The Escalade needs a big displacement V8. The 6.2 liter LT Series all aluminium V8 is a perfect fit.  And it seems that many buyers and leasers want it that way.

LOL.... It's not 1975 anymore when Cadillac had the 500 V8 and Lincoln had a 460 V8...not sure if the displacement is relevant to most buyers today... the Navigator (it's main competitor) gets by just fine w/ a 3.5L DOHC V6.

4 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Not sure if the displacement is relevant to most buyers though.  It's not 1975 anymore when Cadillac had the 500 V8 and Lincoln had a 460 V8...the Navigator (it's main competitor) gets by just fine w/ a 3.5L DOHC V6.

The Navigator had to re-invent itself somewhat.  

and a quick google search I saw that the Escalade sells to the ratio of 2:1 versus the Navigator.

The 'Gator is a new model. 

Ill keep my opinion that the Escalade needs big displacement.  Its true that we are no longer in a muscle car race for big displacements,  but I believe with Cadillac and its Escalade, that there is no replacement for displacement. 

@Robert Hall

I misread the sales figures.  I went back to re-check...

Truth be told, the sales figures of the Escalade that I saw only go until March or April.

And for those 3 or 4 months. The Navigator and the Escalade sell about the same.

So...you are most definitely right to say that the 3.5 ecoboosted 'Gator just does fine. 

I still think the 'Slade needs a 6.2 liter V8 though.  

It needs a 6.2 liter V8 to make 420 hp?  There are 3 liter engines that make more that.  Something is wrong with your engineering department if you can't make over 100 hp per liter.  And Cadillac makes a 550 hp V8, why on earth would you give the Escalade a weaker Chevy engine compared to the more powerful Cadillac engine?

I think GM realized that their Dohc V8 was a legacy design for the times when competing against Germans tit for tat made sense. I think they'll offer only one engine. If they are finally making a VSeries then that would explain it.

16 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It needs a 6.2 liter V8 to make 420 hp?  There are 3 liter engines that make more that.  Something is wrong with your engineering department if you can't make over 100 hp per liter.  And Cadillac makes a 550 hp V8, why on earth would you give the Escalade a weaker Chevy engine compared to the more powerful Cadillac engine?

That is because its...DETUNED.

In a Corvette, it makes 455. Naturally Aspirated and base engined...

There are 2 that make 650 and 755 supercharged in the Vette. 

755 horsepower.  That is more than the 130 000 Mercedes 4 door GT that I just read about.  That particular Vette costs more or less that much too. But 755... 

Im sure if Escalade needs more power, the LT based V8 in GM's stable could certainly answer the call. 

And...it "only" makes 455 in a Corvette because there is the thing that a Corvette needs to be driven daily, Mon-Fri doing 25 miles per day, reliably in traffic, on city streets, on the highway,  while giving the owner superb fuel economy. Then on the weekend, be DRIVEN to the racetrack, whether on a roadtrack or drag street, make several high speed runs without breaking down, overheating and the like, then be DRIVEN back home to start the work week all over again. And all that just with regular maintenance and oil changes.  All within warranty as well...

With 455 hp and 455 ft.lbs of torque, one could do that to their Corvette 24/7 365 for 100 000 miles plus without major engine overhauling...

And each year, the horsepower numbers go up, the records fall at the racetracks and Chevrolet keeps on selling these Corvettes at least 50 000 units per year for the last 50-60 years...

Other Corvette owners, just go wild with their engines and well...exotic 500 000 dollar and more Porsches, McLarens, Lamborghinis, Ferraris have a hard time with keeping up with them...mind you though, those Corvettes are trailored to the track...

PS: The Corvette Z06 and ZR1 with 650 and 755 HP respectively could be daily driven and racetracked 24/7  365 like the Stingray...  I think the heatsoak problem in the Z06 is solved, if not...OK, you got me there, but there is no heatsoak  problem in the ZR1... 

Like I said, you do not have to respect the Chevy small block.  It OK...just make sure you get your facts straight.

The 755 hp Corvette ZR1 is slower around the Nurburgring than a 577 hp AMG GT, because the Corvette can't put the power on the ground, it has useless power.   That goes back to chassis, suspension, lack of all wheel drive, etc on the Corvette.  Although the AMG GT doesn't have all wheel drive either, nor does the 911 GT2 RS, but they have enough tricks up their sleeve to use all their power.

And GM has these supercharged V8s, why didn't they put one in an Escalade yet?  Makes no sense.  Bentley, Rolls, Porsche, Mercedes, Range Rover, Lamborghini, etc all have 550+ hp SUVs, Ferrari and Aston Martin are coming, Maserati has over 500 hp, it might be 550, I forget, but it has a lot too.

500hp this, 500hp that.  Blah blah blah..But what about an Escalade EV?  That would be a bold move...

14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The 755 hp Corvette ZR1 is slower around the Nurburgring than a 577 hp AMG GT, because the Corvette can't put the power on the ground, it has useless power.   That goes back to chassis, suspension, lack of all wheel drive, etc on the Corvette.  Although the AMG GT doesn't have all wheel drive either, nor does the 911 GT2 RS, but they have enough tricks up their sleeve to use all their power.

And GM has these supercharged V8s, why didn't they put one in an Escalade yet?  Makes no sense.  Bentley, Rolls, Porsche, Mercedes, Range Rover, Lamborghini, etc all have 550+ hp SUVs, Ferrari and Aston Martin are coming, Maserati has over 500 hp, it might be 550, I forget, but it has a lot too.

Yes...chassis, suspension, lack of AWD...engine placement too...

The Vette has the suspension. The current Vette has got all the down force tricks they could use. The current Vette lacks AWD. Vette engineers have also publicly concluded that they have just about tapped all the performance numbers they could out of a front engined/RWD chassis. Vette engineers know with this set-up with 755 is just overkill...

This is why the C8 will be a mid-engined affair. Probably future high horsepower variants will be AWD. With probably electric motors. Or even all out electric.

That is the beauty of a Vette though. It aint all about the numbers, Its also about brute force. 

The Vette is just as much as a true sports car as it is a muscle car...

Why the Escalade does not have 500 horsepower? I really did not think it needed it.   Its a big land yacht of a machine...meant to show the neighbors that you own the biggest, baddest SUV of them all.  And speed is not one of those criteria that the Escalade owners want to show you when they drive it. Those owners probably have some sort of speed demon machine to show that for them.  The Escalade is just that, A big arrogant, gas sucking machine that proves to the world you made it!!!

That is  Eldo is its predecessor...and every other Eldo before it and after that 1959 model year...

No Eldorado was ever fast.  In fact, you drove slow on purpose in an Eldorado so everybody could see you.  Same with the Escalade.

Yes @Robert Hall. When the EV Escalade? 

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It needs a 6.2 liter V8 to make 420 hp?  There are 3 liter engines that make more that.  Something is wrong with your engineering department if you can't make over 100 hp per liter.  And Cadillac makes a 550 hp V8, why on earth would you give the Escalade a weaker Chevy engine compared to the more powerful Cadillac engine?

6.2L is a OHV engine. Cam in block.. still physically smaller than the 4L DOHC engines. If I remember correctly a Mercedes 4.0L engine, undressed and without the turbo intercoolers,  that resides in the S63 weighs in at 460lbs. The 6.2L in the Stingray fully dressed weighs in at 460lbs 

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Yes...chassis, suspension, lack of AWD...engine placement too...

The Vette has the suspension. The current Vette has got all the down force tricks they could use. The current Vette lacks AWD. Vette engineers have also publicly concluded that they have just about tapped all the performance numbers they could out of a front engined/RWD chassis. Vette engineers know with this set-up with 755 is just overkill...

This is why the C8 will be a mid-engined affair. Probably future high horsepower variants will be AWD. With probably electric motors. Or even all out electric.

That is the beauty of a Vette though. It aint all about the numbers, Its also about brute force. 

The Vette is just as much as a true sports car as it is a muscle car...

 

Why the Escalade does not have 500 horsepower? I really did not think it needed it.   Its a big land yacht of a machine...meant to show the neighbors that you own the biggest, baddest SUV of them all.  And speed is not one of those criteria that the Escalade owners want to show you when they drive it. Those owners probably have some sort of speed demon machine to show that for them.  The Escalade is just that, A big arrogant, gas sucking machine that proves to the world you made it!!!

That is  Eldo is its predecessor...and every other Eldo before it and after that 1959 model year...

No Eldorado was ever fast.  In fact, you drove slow on purpose in an Eldorado so everybody could see you.  Same with the Escalade.

 

Yes @Robert Hall. When the EV Escalade? 

 

 

I imagine a 500 hp mid engine Corvette will be faster around a race track than a 755 hp ZR1 that just spins it’s tires.  And yes to an EV Escalde or Cadillacs SUV.

The Escalde is not the biggest, baddest, wealthiest SUV anymore.  Rolls-Royce has a much bigger much more luxurious much more powerful SUV, Bentley and Lambhave them, ther is the G-wagen that starts $25k higher than the Escalde stops and there are more $200k plus SUVs on the way.  I actually think Cadillac needs an SUV that starts $50k above the Escalade Platinum and operates in the $150-200,000 price range.  

43 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

6.2L is a OHV engine. Cam in block.. still physically smaller than the 4L DOHC engines. If I remember correctly a Mercedes 4.0L engine, undressed and without the turbo intercoolers,  that resides in the S63 weighs in at 460lbs. The 6.2L in the Stingray fully dressed weighs in at 460lbs 

The Mercedes/AMG M178 (4.0 bi-turbo) is 461 lbs.  The LT1 V8 is 465 lbs but the LT4 with the Supercharger is 529 lbs.  When you compare boosted to boosted the AMG engine is lighter more fuel efficient too.  But Cadillac could care less about Escalde weight, so why not put the CT6-V engine in there?  Do something.

Just now, smk4565 said:

I imagine a 500 hp mid engine Corvette will be faster around a race track than a 755 hp ZR1 that just spins it’s tires.  And yes to an EV Escalde or Cadillacs SUV.

The Escalde is not the biggest, baddest, wealthiest SUV anymore.  Rolls-Royce has a much bigger much more luxurious much more powerful SUV, Bentley and Lambhave them, ther is the G-wagen that starts $25k higher than the Escalde stops and there are more $200k plus SUVs on the way.  I actually think Cadillac needs an SUV that starts $50k above the Escalade Platinum and operates in the $150-200,000 price range.  

Yeah...but for now, 755 horsepower in a ZR1 is also keeping the Mopar Hellcat/Demon/Red-eye muscle guys at bay...like I said, the Vette is just as much a muscle car as it is a bonafide sportscar or GT car...

And yes, a mid-engined Zora Vette will probably be a track monster. 

Rolls Royce and Bentley...yup, they got SUVs too now.  The one beacon of light Cadillac has got is the Escalade.  Aside from the 1950s and early 1960s when Cadillac had some models in the Rolls price range, the Eldorado was always Cadillac's image car. No Rolls Royce or Bentley ever took that away from Cadillac.   The Bentayga and Cullinan could be pricier than the Escalade. I have a sneaky suspicion that the Escalade will always be the measuring stick...like how the Eldorado was back in the day. With the new 'Slade coming for 2020, let us see what Cadillac does with it.  If it beats the Navigator in quality and looks, then the Escalade will continue to be the big daddy of SUVs. 

And while the 'Gator does indeed have a 3.5liter ecoboosted 6 under the hood and it sells on par with the 'Slade, and Cadillac retains all that what makes a 'Slade a 'Slade with a high displacement V8, then all the reason to believe the 'Slade is indeed the biggest and baddest. 

And yes, maybe Cadillac could go higher in price range with an SUV than the Escalade. But then again, the Cadillac that cost as much or more than a Rolls Royce in the 1950s was still named Eldorado...therefore if Cadillac wants to go 50 000 dollars more on a SUV, Escalade could/should be its name. 

We do agree with EVs!!!

Maybe they can do an Escalade V-series w the ZR1 engine.

<sarcasm>  Then to get the price higher,  an ultra blinged range topping model w gold trim, 26 inch wheels, raised roof, etc.  license the Kardashian brand name for that trim level.  Nothing else would say ‘murican excess like that...

</sarcasm>

9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Mercedes/AMG M178 (4.0 bi-turbo) is 461 lbs.  The LT1 V8 is 465 lbs but the LT4 with the Supercharger is 529 lbs.  When you compare boosted to boosted the AMG engine is lighter more fuel efficient too.  But Cadillac could care less about Escalde weight, so why not put the CT6-V engine in there?  Do something.

The 4.0L Bi-Turbo was told to me as being 460lbs before the intercooler and dressing. The LT4's weight includes everything. At best, they are same weight once one includes the Benz's intercooler. The AMG engine is down by almost 50 hp on the LT4, which should certainly get it a slightly better fuel economy, especially when paired to a tranny with one extra gear.