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    William Maley

    Spying: 2020 Cadillac Escalade Makes An Appearance

      Yep, that's an Escalade

    Late last week, the first spy shots of the next-generation Cadillac Escalade made their way onto the web. Much like the spy shots of the Chevrolet Suburban that came out back in May, we can't tell much about the exterior due to the heavy camouflage. There are certain details that can be made out such as Escala-like grille and the headlights moving horizontally.

    Like the new Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra, the Escalade and sister SUV models will utilize the T1XX platform. One of the key changes this platform brings is an independent rear suspension, something we first saw in the Suburban spy shots. The 6.2L V8 with 420 horsepower is expected to continue into the next-generation model, teamed with a new 10-speed automatic. There is also the possibility of the twin-turbo 4.2L V8, detuned to 500 horsepower or so.

    Expect to see the 2020 Escalade sometime next year.

    Source: Car and Driver, Motor Authority

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    17 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Hot...but the new Navigator is still better looking IMHO.

    Haven't seen any pics of the new Escalade undisguised yet, so I'll withhold judgement.  I do like the new Navigator. 

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    They have had the 6.2 V8 for about 12 years now, time for something new.   Independent rear suspension will help with 3rd row room, which currently lags behind its competitors that do have IRS.

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    2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    What doesn't the 6.2 do that it needs to do? 

    Fuel economy, NVH, out power a German V8, etc.  That engine is as old as Toyota's V8.  I'd actually like to see the 3.0 twin turbo V6 with an e-assist as the standard Escalade engine, that opens the door to China sales to skirt some displacement taxes and the 4.2 DOHC V8 optional.  

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    27 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Fuel economy, NVH, out power a German V8, etc.  That engine is as old as Toyota's V8.  I'd actually like to see the 3.0 twin turbo V6 with an e-assist as the standard Escalade engine, that opens the door to China sales to skirt some displacement taxes and the 4.2 DOHC V8 optional.  

    Holy sht, you're right. The much $h!tier, larger vehicle, heavier vehicle does need an engine upgrade because the 6.2 gets worse fuel economy doesn't it? 

    Seems more like Mercedes needs to upgrade. 

    6.2.PNG

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    18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Holy sht, you're right. The much $h!tier, larger vehicle, heavier vehicle does need an engine upgrade because the 6.2 gets worse fuel economy doesn't it? 

    Seems more like Mercedes needs to upgrade. 

    6.2.PNG

    The GLS with the V6 gets better mpg than the Escalade, and that new inline 6 with the EQ boost is better than the V6.  And that 4.7 liter V8 is in it's last year, the 2020 GLS will have the 4.0 liter.  Mercedes is replacing all the GLS engines.  They also trademarked GLS73 which makes one wonder if something above the GLS63 is coming as they do have a plug-in hybrid V8 with over 800 hp in the works.

    Edited by smk4565

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    29 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Holy sht, you're right. The much $h!tier, larger vehicle, heavier vehicle does need an engine upgrade because the 6.2 gets worse fuel economy doesn't it? 

    Seems more like Mercedes needs to upgrade. 

    6.2.PNG

    My sister Heather drives a Navigator. She did not buy it for Fuel economy. People dropping eighty grand on a rig like this are not persuaded by a half a mile per gallon.

    18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The GLS with the V6 gets better mpg than the Escalade, and that new inline 6 with the EQ boost is better than the V6.  And that 4.7 liter V8 is in it's last year, the 2020 GLS will have the 4.0 liter.  Mercedes is replacing all the GLS engines.  They also trademarked GLS73 which makes one wonder if something above the GLS63 is coming as they do have a plug-in hybrid V8 with over 800 hp in the works.

    This is the answer to Dwight in the other thread about Tarriffs. Without some level of free economic competition things never get better. 

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Fuel economy, NVH, out power a German V8, etc.  That engine is as old as Toyota's V8.  I'd actually like to see the 3.0 twin turbo V6 with an e-assist as the standard Escalade engine, that opens the door to China sales to skirt some displacement taxes and the 4.2 DOHC V8 optional.  

    The 2018 Escalade's 6.2 liter is the truck engine of the 2014 release of the LT1 in the Corvette Stingray.

    Its also called a Gen V of Chevy small blocks

    Gen IV were the LS engines.

    Gen III were the LT engines again. 

    No...the Gen V small block LT is NOT a Gen III LT small block.

    No...the Gen III LT small blocks have nothing in common with Chevrolet's original 1950s small block V8s...

    Yes...the Gen IVs are different from the Gen IIIs.

    Yes...the Gen Vs have some similarities to the LS based Gen IVs, but...

     All Gen V engines are aluminum blocks with aluminum cylinder heads and include features such as direct injection, piston cooling jets...something that the Gen IV LS engines do not have...

    The Gen Vs are...brand new and employ state of the art technology keeping them on par in technology and sophistication with exotic V8s from exotic V8 makers such as Ferrari...

    Mercedes V8s are good.

    AMG V8s are awesome. 

    The Chevrolet Small Block V8...is legendary. You may not agree with this.  But its OK.  

    I, would love to see the new TT 4.2 liter in a new Cadillac product, in the Escalade though, I am more than happy to see a detuned LT5 under the hood. 

    Why?

    Its a truck. Its the Escalade.

    4.2 liter versus 6.2 liter. 

    Twin turbo sure.  Its good.  

    2.65 liter supercharger....think about that for a moment...

    Cadillac should always be about arrogance...

    Unless Cadillac puts 2 supersized turbos the size of 1 gallon paint,  on the possible Escalade 4.2 liter to produce that 700 or so horsepower, I would prefer the 2.65 liter supercharger under the hood of my 'Slade.

    But that is just me. Trying to retain some American Muscle, Cadillac arrogance in my American automobiles...something that the dudes that run Cadillac  should be thinking about as well...

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Engine is not a big deal at this point....if i’m Going to pony the money, it better move!

    We’ll see if it gets some flash....

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    I beg to differ.

    The Escalade is not one of those wannabe nimble track handling SUVs like a Porsche Cayenne or Lamborghini Urus or BMW X6...

    The Escalade is  the original (Lincoln Naivigator is truly the original) large land yacht SUV...

    Kinda like how  1960s Lincoln Continentals or 1970s Cadillac Fleetwoods used to be...

    That is why the Escalade sells...

    People want and love their big land yacht Cadillacs. 

    The Bentley and Rolls Royce made their Bentayga and Cullinan in the Escalades image...

    Because Bentley and Rolls Royce never abandoned their floaty land yacht images...unlike Cadillac.

    But you see, the Bentayga has got a (as its top engine) a 6.0 liter and the Rolls Royce has a 6.75 liter under their hoods. Both V12s. But it dont matter. 

    Both are 6.0 liters and above...and for a reason...

    Even Mercedes Benz with their GL class SUV has got a 5.5 liter as its biggest V8 offering in theirs.

    For Cadillac to go with a 4.2 liter in their Escalade would be a mistake in my eyes...

    The irony (and hypocrisy) of today's world is this:  At a time when electrics are gaining status more and more in the market place, at a time when everybody has gone "save the planet" and view the internal combustion engine as the Devil, the world seems to not want to let go of V12s and V8s....especially in high displacements...

    The Challenger rides on a 20 year old platform, yet the world has gone bonkers over its 2.7  and 2.4  (Demon and Hellcat respectively) liter supercharger on top of a 6.2 liter V8 and continues to sell at a voracious rate...

    The Scatpack at 6.4 liters is also revered...

    Let us not forget the Jeep version of the Hellcat...

    Ferrari...Ferrari has dropped a 6.5 liter V12 in their latest GT sports car. UP from 6.3 liters...

    6.5 liters...in a Ferrari...

    Remember this logo?

    Image result for 6.5 liter GTO

     

    Yes...it belongs on a GTO...not a Ferrari GTO, but a muscle car Pontiac GTO...in 1967...

    A 6.2 liter V8 with a 2.65 liter blower attached to it in the Escalade  would be a very welcomed status symbol...

    A better status symbol than that: EV Escalade. 

     

     

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The GLS with the V6 gets better mpg than the Escalade, and that new inline 6 with the EQ boost is better than the V6.  And that 4.7 liter V8 is in it's last year, the 2020 GLS will have the 4.0 liter.  Mercedes is replacing all the GLS engines.  They also trademarked GLS73 which makes one wonder if something above the GLS63 is coming as they do have a plug-in hybrid V8 with over 800 hp in the works.

    Yeah and the V6 is down 60hp and 100tq to the old-ass pushrod 6.2. Why would I compare that? It's a huge vehicle. 

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    53 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Yeah and the V6 is down 60hp and 100tq to the old-ass pushrod 6.2. Why would I compare that? It's a huge vehicle. 

    I love you like a brother, but please refrain from making enlightened levelheaded arguments that make prudent sense. They don't seem to resonate here at C and G for some reason.

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    3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    Yeah and the V6 is down 60hp and 100tq to the old-ass pushrod 6.2. Why would I compare that? It's a huge vehicle. 

    The GLS450 and the Escalade have the same 0-60 time, and the Navigator beats the Escalade in acceleration and fuel economy.  And the GLS offers 2 V8’s that out power either.  And Cadillac has a V8 better than the 6.2, so that 6.2 should be no where to be found.

    I think there should be a 3 liter V6 Escalade (preferably with e-assist or hybrid) because of two reasons: China displacement taxes and livery/fleet sales that shop mpg over performance.

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    2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The GLS450 and the Escalade have the same 0-60 time, and the Navigator beats the Escalade in acceleration and fuel economy.  And the GLS offers 2 V8’s that out power either.  And Cadillac has a V8 better than the 6.2, so that 6.2 should be no where to be found.

    I think there should be a 3 liter V6 Escalade (preferably with e-assist or hybrid) because of two reasons: China displacement taxes and livery/fleet sales that shop mpg over performance.

    Interesting thought....would add substantially to the production cost to add these options though.

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    1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Interesting thought....would add substantially to the production cost to add these options though.

    The CTS has 4 different engine choices, the CT6 has 3, even the Cruze had 3 engine choices at one point.  How can the Escalde only have 1 engine choice?  It doesn’t cost much more to throw a couple more options in there.

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    5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The CTS has 4 different engine choices, the CT6 has 3, even the Cruze had 3 engine choices at one point.  How can the Escalde only have 1 engine choice?  It doesn’t cost much more to throw a couple more options in there.

    I am still not sure the marketing case exists for it.

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    45 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Well that is a 2015 GL450, the resfreshed model has a 9-speed transmission and is tested at 5.7 seconds 0-60.  But if you drove them both side by side I bet people couldn’t tell a difference in speed between an Escalde and GLS450.  And Mercedes is dropping that engine after this year they will have all new stuff in 2020, if the Escalde plans to soldier on with the same power train as today’s model that is good news for Mercedes.

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    The current 'Slade also has a new transmission, 10spd. WAAAAY superior to the POS 9spd. What, did they forget a gear??? 

    I don't think the 2:1 sales of the Escalade to GLS is worrying anybody over at GM. They have a new gen out testing on the streets as well. 

    *knock knock*

    Mercedes, did ya forget a gear? 

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    36 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    The current 'Slade also has a new transmission, 10spd. WAAAAY superior to the POS 9spd. What, did they forget a gear??? 

    I don't think the 2:1 sales of the Escalade to GLS is worrying anybody over at GM. They have a new gen out testing on the streets as well. 

    *knock knock*

    Mercedes, did ya forget a gear? 

    They didn’t, they considered 10 gears and ran 81 billion computer simulations to find the ideal gear count and 9 speed was better than 10.  More gears add weight and complexity and there was no fuel economy gain from 9 to 10.  Thus they went with 9. 

    The 9-speed transmission also only has 1 reverse gear where as the old 7G-tronic transmissions had 2 reverse gears.  I thought 2 reverse gears was cool but I guess they found it not necessary.

    Edited by smk4565

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    Oh sweet baby Jesus you're dense... I thought it was extremely obvious but I guess I'll dumb it down for you.. I WAS BEING A SMART@SS. 

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    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    Oh sweet baby Jesus you're dense... I thought it was extremely obvious but I guess I'll dumb it down for you.. I WAS BEING A SMART@SS. 

    Please for future posts hashtag them #SARCASM#THIS IS MINDFU@#INGLY OBVIOUS#HEYDUDE#THISCAN'TBEHAPPENING#PULLYORHEADOUTOFSTUTTGARTSARSE#THISONLYWORKSINTHEINSANEALTERNATIVEUNIVERSEOFC&G#MINDBLOWN so we know that you are being sarcastic.

    This may make things clearer in the future with your posts.

    Sincerely,

    The #NONADMINSISTRATIONTEAMATC&G

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    Ah, hashtaging for the Millenials and their Instagramming.     Personally, I prefer the sarcasm html tags--- <sarcasm> </sarcasm> around the text that is intended to be sarcastic. 

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    So from the first couple paragraphs, it sounds like the '20 Escalade will have an IRS (17 years after the Navigator) and an optional DOHC V8 (21 years after the Navigator)...

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    image.png

    Just now, Robert Hall said:

    So from the first couple paragraphs, it sounds like the '20 Escalade will have an IRS (17 years after the Navigator) and an optional DOHC V8 (21 years after the Navigator)...

    Yes....and back to the Escalade...car pics just because I am bored and being silly.

    image.png

    image.png

    image.png

    image.png

    Ok...back to Escalade...

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    6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    So from the first couple paragraphs, it sounds like the '20 Escalade will have an IRS (17 years after the Navigator) and an optional DOHC V8 (21 years after the Navigator)...

    The engine not being DOHC never really surprised me and I don't think it was a necessary upgrade but I am surprised they never adopted IRS sooner. 

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    3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    The engine not being DOHC never really surprised me and I don't think it was a necessary upgrade but I am surprised they never adopted IRS sooner. 

    I just assumed that was GM being cheap.  

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    44 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    I just assumed that was GM being cheap.  

    It probably is but at the same time, what's wrong with it? 

    Is it them being cheap in the Escalade or them balling out in the much cheaper Camaro/Silverados? 

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    4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    It probably is but at the same time, what's wrong with it? 

    Is it them being cheap in the Escalade or them balling out in the much cheaper Camaro/Silverados? 

    Not having IRS on a full size SUV is pretty 20th century at this point... the advantages of having IRS would outweigh any disadvantages, I think...better ride, lower floor and more cargo space, etc. 

    Edited by Robert Hall

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    3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Not having IRS on a full size SUV is pretty 20th century at this point... the advantages of having IRS would outweigh any disadvantages, I think...better ride, lower floor and more cargo space, etc. 

    Oh IRS, I definitely agree. I was only thinking you were talking about the lack of DOHC for some reason.

    Yeah, IRS should have been available quite awhile ago. Especially with how much money that thing makes. 

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    3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Oh IRS, I definitely agree. I was only thinking you were talking about the lack of DOHC for some reason. 

    Well, I think that is because they took forever to commit to Cadillac having it's own V8 engine family again instead of sharing w/ Chevy & GMC...again, being cheap. 

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    I dont think IRS was needed in the Escalade. For many reasons, but for one big one. 

    It was kinda the only game in town, and it sold (and continues to sell) like hot potatoes.

    Dont fix if it aint broke.

     Their sedans and coupes and in their car based CUVs desperately need DOHC.  

    In the Escalade, I dont think it matters much.  But I do believe that displacement is a must in the Escalade.

    @smk4565 thinks that 0-60 times, and all that, is important to the Escalade buyer. It is not!

    The Escalade buyer just wants his big ass Cadillac. 

    And big ass Cadillacs are big in every way. 

    In bling, in grilles, in length, in width, in arrogance, in engine size.

    Rolls Royce Phantom...seems like their 6.75 liter V8 was under the hood since forever. 

    And their V12 that they put in their cars and SUVs today?  Seems like BMW did not want to fool around with that formula and for the last 15 years or so, the BMW V12 that Rolls Royce uses is exactly the same displacement as that V8: 6.75liters!!!

    The Escalade needs a big displacement V8. The 6.2 liter LT Series all aluminium V8 is a perfect fit.  And it seems that many buyers and leasers want it that way.

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    LOL.... It's not 1975 anymore when Cadillac had the 500 V8 and Lincoln had a 460 V8...not sure if the displacement is relevant to most buyers today... the Navigator (it's main competitor) gets by just fine w/ a 3.5L DOHC V6.

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    4 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Not sure if the displacement is relevant to most buyers though.  It's not 1975 anymore when Cadillac had the 500 V8 and Lincoln had a 460 V8...the Navigator (it's main competitor) gets by just fine w/ a 3.5L DOHC V6.

    The Navigator had to re-invent itself somewhat.  

    and a quick google search I saw that the Escalade sells to the ratio of 2:1 versus the Navigator.

    The 'Gator is a new model. 

    Ill keep my opinion that the Escalade needs big displacement.  Its true that we are no longer in a muscle car race for big displacements,  but I believe with Cadillac and its Escalade, that there is no replacement for displacement. 

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    @Robert Hall

    I misread the sales figures.  I went back to re-check...

    Truth be told, the sales figures of the Escalade that I saw only go until March or April.

    And for those 3 or 4 months. The Navigator and the Escalade sell about the same.

    So...you are most definitely right to say that the 3.5 ecoboosted 'Gator just does fine. 

    I still think the 'Slade needs a 6.2 liter V8 though.  

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    It needs a 6.2 liter V8 to make 420 hp?  There are 3 liter engines that make more that.  Something is wrong with your engineering department if you can't make over 100 hp per liter.  And Cadillac makes a 550 hp V8, why on earth would you give the Escalade a weaker Chevy engine compared to the more powerful Cadillac engine?

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    I think GM realized that their Dohc V8 was a legacy design for the times when competing against Germans tit for tat made sense. I think they'll offer only one engine. If they are finally making a VSeries then that would explain it.

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    16 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    It needs a 6.2 liter V8 to make 420 hp?  There are 3 liter engines that make more that.  Something is wrong with your engineering department if you can't make over 100 hp per liter.  And Cadillac makes a 550 hp V8, why on earth would you give the Escalade a weaker Chevy engine compared to the more powerful Cadillac engine?

    That is because its...DETUNED.

    In a Corvette, it makes 455. Naturally Aspirated and base engined...

    There are 2 that make 650 and 755 supercharged in the Vette. 

    755 horsepower.  That is more than the 130 000 Mercedes 4 door GT that I just read about.  That particular Vette costs more or less that much too. But 755... 

    Im sure if Escalade needs more power, the LT based V8 in GM's stable could certainly answer the call. 

    And...it "only" makes 455 in a Corvette because there is the thing that a Corvette needs to be driven daily, Mon-Fri doing 25 miles per day, reliably in traffic, on city streets, on the highway,  while giving the owner superb fuel economy. Then on the weekend, be DRIVEN to the racetrack, whether on a roadtrack or drag street, make several high speed runs without breaking down, overheating and the like, then be DRIVEN back home to start the work week all over again. And all that just with regular maintenance and oil changes.  All within warranty as well...

    With 455 hp and 455 ft.lbs of torque, one could do that to their Corvette 24/7 365 for 100 000 miles plus without major engine overhauling...

    And each year, the horsepower numbers go up, the records fall at the racetracks and Chevrolet keeps on selling these Corvettes at least 50 000 units per year for the last 50-60 years...

    Other Corvette owners, just go wild with their engines and well...exotic 500 000 dollar and more Porsches, McLarens, Lamborghinis, Ferraris have a hard time with keeping up with them...mind you though, those Corvettes are trailored to the track...

    PS: The Corvette Z06 and ZR1 with 650 and 755 HP respectively could be daily driven and racetracked 24/7  365 like the Stingray...  I think the heatsoak problem in the Z06 is solved, if not...OK, you got me there, but there is no heatsoak  problem in the ZR1... 

    Like I said, you do not have to respect the Chevy small block.  It OK...just make sure you get your facts straight.

     

    Edited by oldshurst442

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    The 755 hp Corvette ZR1 is slower around the Nurburgring than a 577 hp AMG GT, because the Corvette can't put the power on the ground, it has useless power.   That goes back to chassis, suspension, lack of all wheel drive, etc on the Corvette.  Although the AMG GT doesn't have all wheel drive either, nor does the 911 GT2 RS, but they have enough tricks up their sleeve to use all their power.

    And GM has these supercharged V8s, why didn't they put one in an Escalade yet?  Makes no sense.  Bentley, Rolls, Porsche, Mercedes, Range Rover, Lamborghini, etc all have 550+ hp SUVs, Ferrari and Aston Martin are coming, Maserati has over 500 hp, it might be 550, I forget, but it has a lot too.

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    500hp this, 500hp that.  Blah blah blah..But what about an Escalade EV?  That would be a bold move...

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The 755 hp Corvette ZR1 is slower around the Nurburgring than a 577 hp AMG GT, because the Corvette can't put the power on the ground, it has useless power.   That goes back to chassis, suspension, lack of all wheel drive, etc on the Corvette.  Although the AMG GT doesn't have all wheel drive either, nor does the 911 GT2 RS, but they have enough tricks up their sleeve to use all their power.

    And GM has these supercharged V8s, why didn't they put one in an Escalade yet?  Makes no sense.  Bentley, Rolls, Porsche, Mercedes, Range Rover, Lamborghini, etc all have 550+ hp SUVs, Ferrari and Aston Martin are coming, Maserati has over 500 hp, it might be 550, I forget, but it has a lot too.

     

    Yes...chassis, suspension, lack of AWD...engine placement too...

    The Vette has the suspension. The current Vette has got all the down force tricks they could use. The current Vette lacks AWD. Vette engineers have also publicly concluded that they have just about tapped all the performance numbers they could out of a front engined/RWD chassis. Vette engineers know with this set-up with 755 is just overkill...

    This is why the C8 will be a mid-engined affair. Probably future high horsepower variants will be AWD. With probably electric motors. Or even all out electric.

    That is the beauty of a Vette though. It aint all about the numbers, Its also about brute force. 

    The Vette is just as much as a true sports car as it is a muscle car...

     

    Why the Escalade does not have 500 horsepower? I really did not think it needed it.   Its a big land yacht of a machine...meant to show the neighbors that you own the biggest, baddest SUV of them all.  And speed is not one of those criteria that the Escalade owners want to show you when they drive it. Those owners probably have some sort of speed demon machine to show that for them.  The Escalade is just that, A big arrogant, gas sucking machine that proves to the world you made it!!!

    Image result for 1959 eldorado

    That is  Eldo is its predecessor...and every other Eldo before it and after that 1959 model year...

    No Eldorado was ever fast.  In fact, you drove slow on purpose in an Eldorado so everybody could see you.  Same with the Escalade.

     

    Yes @Robert Hall. When the EV Escalade? 

     

     

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    3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    It needs a 6.2 liter V8 to make 420 hp?  There are 3 liter engines that make more that.  Something is wrong with your engineering department if you can't make over 100 hp per liter.  And Cadillac makes a 550 hp V8, why on earth would you give the Escalade a weaker Chevy engine compared to the more powerful Cadillac engine?

    6.2L is a OHV engine. Cam in block.. still physically smaller than the 4L DOHC engines. If I remember correctly a Mercedes 4.0L engine, undressed and without the turbo intercoolers,  that resides in the S63 weighs in at 460lbs. The 6.2L in the Stingray fully dressed weighs in at 460lbs 

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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

     

    Yes...chassis, suspension, lack of AWD...engine placement too...

    The Vette has the suspension. The current Vette has got all the down force tricks they could use. The current Vette lacks AWD. Vette engineers have also publicly concluded that they have just about tapped all the performance numbers they could out of a front engined/RWD chassis. Vette engineers know with this set-up with 755 is just overkill...

    This is why the C8 will be a mid-engined affair. Probably future high horsepower variants will be AWD. With probably electric motors. Or even all out electric.

    That is the beauty of a Vette though. It aint all about the numbers, Its also about brute force. 

    The Vette is just as much as a true sports car as it is a muscle car...

     

    Why the Escalade does not have 500 horsepower? I really did not think it needed it.   Its a big land yacht of a machine...meant to show the neighbors that you own the biggest, baddest SUV of them all.  And speed is not one of those criteria that the Escalade owners want to show you when they drive it. Those owners probably have some sort of speed demon machine to show that for them.  The Escalade is just that, A big arrogant, gas sucking machine that proves to the world you made it!!!

    Image result for 1959 eldorado

    That is  Eldo is its predecessor...and every other Eldo before it and after that 1959 model year...

    No Eldorado was ever fast.  In fact, you drove slow on purpose in an Eldorado so everybody could see you.  Same with the Escalade.

     

    Yes @Robert Hall. When the EV Escalade? 

     

     

    I imagine a 500 hp mid engine Corvette will be faster around a race track than a 755 hp ZR1 that just spins it’s tires.  And yes to an EV Escalde or Cadillacs SUV.

    The Escalde is not the biggest, baddest, wealthiest SUV anymore.  Rolls-Royce has a much bigger much more luxurious much more powerful SUV, Bentley and Lambhave them, ther is the G-wagen that starts $25k higher than the Escalde stops and there are more $200k plus SUVs on the way.  I actually think Cadillac needs an SUV that starts $50k above the Escalade Platinum and operates in the $150-200,000 price range.  

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    43 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    6.2L is a OHV engine. Cam in block.. still physically smaller than the 4L DOHC engines. If I remember correctly a Mercedes 4.0L engine, undressed and without the turbo intercoolers,  that resides in the S63 weighs in at 460lbs. The 6.2L in the Stingray fully dressed weighs in at 460lbs 

    The Mercedes/AMG M178 (4.0 bi-turbo) is 461 lbs.  The LT1 V8 is 465 lbs but the LT4 with the Supercharger is 529 lbs.  When you compare boosted to boosted the AMG engine is lighter more fuel efficient too.  But Cadillac could care less about Escalde weight, so why not put the CT6-V engine in there?  Do something.

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    Just now, smk4565 said:

    I imagine a 500 hp mid engine Corvette will be faster around a race track than a 755 hp ZR1 that just spins it’s tires.  And yes to an EV Escalde or Cadillacs SUV.

    The Escalde is not the biggest, baddest, wealthiest SUV anymore.  Rolls-Royce has a much bigger much more luxurious much more powerful SUV, Bentley and Lambhave them, ther is the G-wagen that starts $25k higher than the Escalde stops and there are more $200k plus SUVs on the way.  I actually think Cadillac needs an SUV that starts $50k above the Escalade Platinum and operates in the $150-200,000 price range.  

    Yeah...but for now, 755 horsepower in a ZR1 is also keeping the Mopar Hellcat/Demon/Red-eye muscle guys at bay...like I said, the Vette is just as much a muscle car as it is a bonafide sportscar or GT car...

    And yes, a mid-engined Zora Vette will probably be a track monster. 

    Rolls Royce and Bentley...yup, they got SUVs too now.  The one beacon of light Cadillac has got is the Escalade.  Aside from the 1950s and early 1960s when Cadillac had some models in the Rolls price range, the Eldorado was always Cadillac's image car. No Rolls Royce or Bentley ever took that away from Cadillac.   The Bentayga and Cullinan could be pricier than the Escalade. I have a sneaky suspicion that the Escalade will always be the measuring stick...like how the Eldorado was back in the day. With the new 'Slade coming for 2020, let us see what Cadillac does with it.  If it beats the Navigator in quality and looks, then the Escalade will continue to be the big daddy of SUVs. 

    And while the 'Gator does indeed have a 3.5liter ecoboosted 6 under the hood and it sells on par with the 'Slade, and Cadillac retains all that what makes a 'Slade a 'Slade with a high displacement V8, then all the reason to believe the 'Slade is indeed the biggest and baddest. 

    And yes, maybe Cadillac could go higher in price range with an SUV than the Escalade. But then again, the Cadillac that cost as much or more than a Rolls Royce in the 1950s was still named Eldorado...therefore if Cadillac wants to go 50 000 dollars more on a SUV, Escalade could/should be its name. 

    We do agree with EVs!!!

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    Maybe they can do an Escalade V-series w the ZR1 engine.

    <sarcasm>  Then to get the price higher,  an ultra blinged range topping model w gold trim, 26 inch wheels, raised roof, etc.  license the Kardashian brand name for that trim level.  Nothing else would say ‘murican excess like that...

    </sarcasm>

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    9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The Mercedes/AMG M178 (4.0 bi-turbo) is 461 lbs.  The LT1 V8 is 465 lbs but the LT4 with the Supercharger is 529 lbs.  When you compare boosted to boosted the AMG engine is lighter more fuel efficient too.  But Cadillac could care less about Escalde weight, so why not put the CT6-V engine in there?  Do something.

    The 4.0L Bi-Turbo was told to me as being 460lbs before the intercooler and dressing. The LT4's weight includes everything. At best, they are same weight once one includes the Benz's intercooler. The AMG engine is down by almost 50 hp on the LT4, which should certainly get it a slightly better fuel economy, especially when paired to a tranny with one extra gear. 

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    15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    and a quick google search I saw that the Escalade sells to the ratio of 2:1 versus the Navigator.

    It also sells 2:1 to the GLS ;) 

    14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    It needs a 6.2 liter V8 to make 420 hp?  There are 3 liter engines that make more that.  Something is wrong with your engineering department if you can't make over 100 hp per liter.  And Cadillac makes a 550 hp V8, why on earth would you give the Escalade a weaker Chevy engine compared to the more powerful Cadillac engine?

    Maybe.. Just maybe Chevy gets a Cadillac engine.. 

    black think about it GIF by Identity

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    Everything I read says the Mercedes V8 is the lightest in its segment but they may be comparing it to Audi, BMW and Porsche, the Audi V8 is 494 lbs.  Rhe Mercedes V8 is relative compact too so they can fit it in a C-class or low under the hood of a GT.  Things that don’t matter on a GLS though.

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    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    It also sells 2:1 to the GLS ;)

    Sales # are relevant in the mass market, less of an issue w/ luxury vehicles.  And the GLS probably outsells it globally. 

    1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

    Everything I read says the Mercedes V8 is the lightest in its segment but they may be comparing it to Audi, BMW and Porsche, the Audi V8 is 494 lbs.  Rhe Mercedes V8 is relative compact too so they can fit it in a C-class or low under the hood of a GT.  Things that don’t matter on a GLS though.

    Engine weight means nothing in a large SUV...with something like the Escalade the goal is to maximize the weight, not minimize it..leave the lightweight concerns to economy cars. 

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    GLS probably outsells every big luxury SUV globally.  The GL outsold the Escalade  in the USA for a few years around 2012 and 2013.  The Escalde is no doubt a successful product, I am just saying they can’t rest on their laurels and expect it will stay there with an Audi Q8 and BMW X7 now I’m the mix.  Cadillac can’t be complacent.

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    5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Sales # are relevant in the mass market, less of an issue w/ luxury vehicles.  And the GLS probably outsells it globally. 

    Oh I agree. The GLS definitely outsells it globally because as far as I know the 'Slade is US only.. This is :unitedstates: I only care about :unitedstates:😂

    1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

    GLS probably outsells every big luxury SUV globally.  The GL outsold the Escalade  in the USA for a few years around 2012 and 2013.  The Escalde is no doubt a successful product, I am just saying they can’t rest on their laurels and expect it will stay there with an Audi Q8 and BMW X7 now I’m the mix.  Cadillac can’t be complacent.

    I don't think anybody is expecting them to rest on their laurels since the new Navigator came out and has stolen all of its attention, finally. 

    Edited by ccap41
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    4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Oh I agree. The GLS definitely outsells it globally because as far as I know the 'Slade is US only.. This is :unitedstates: I only care about :unitedstates:😂 

    I'm pretty sure the Slade is sold in Canada also...maybe Mexico too..

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    13 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    I'm pretty sure the Slade is sold in Canada also...maybe Mexico too..

    Oh I should have known it is sold in Canada.

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    The Slade is like the M60 Patton while the Navigator is like the USS Fletcher.

     

    as in they are either a tank or a big boat, are capable of towing both, each other and at the same time and are at the heart spin offs of proven truck platforms. Tons and tons of Pattons were built to counter a Cold War threat that never came to and like more Fletchers were built in 3 years than the entire IJN navy fleet tonnage on WW2. Something like that.

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    Now I’m having an image stuck in my head I can’t get rid of. Imagine you have both an Escalade and Navigator. Can’t decide which one to be seen in at your destination?

     

    why not drive one while towing the other? 

     

    Such an American problem with an American solution.

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    46 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

    Now I’m having an image stuck in my head I can’t get rid of. Imagine you have both an Escalade and Navigator. Can’t decide which one to be seen in at your destination?

     

    why not drive one while towing the other? 

     

    Such an American problem with an American solution.

    Until the next fuel crisis or economic crisis hits. Still remember low mile Navigators turned in during Cash for Clunkers.

    image.png

    image.png

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Everything I read says the Mercedes V8 is the lightest in its segment but they may be comparing it to Audi, BMW and Porsche, the Audi V8 is 494 lbs.  Rhe Mercedes V8 is relative compact too so they can fit it in a C-class or low under the hood of a GT.  Things that don’t matter on a GLS though.

    Again.. when it is weighed without the dressed configuration . Add in other things and the weight goes up. BTW.. these two vehicles both have S/C'd OHV engines and both will F@CK up any one of Benzes comparable configs.. still costing $10Ks less.. NOW THAT.. IS EFFICIENCY

    20180810_142311.jpg

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    GLS probably outsells every big luxury SUV globally.  The GL outsold the Escalade  in the USA for a few years around 2012 and 2013.  The Escalde is no doubt a successful product, I am just saying they can’t rest on their laurels and expect it will stay there with an Audi Q8 and BMW X7 now I’m the mix.  Cadillac can’t be complacent.

    So the GLS outsold the Escalade during those years? U mean the one that had been introduced in 2006.. and was still 2 years away from getting a redo? WOW.. Big achievement😂

    The Escalade sells in the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Russia and Middle East. These are essentially the limited areas where GM decides to sell Cadillac, altho obviously other GM brands sell in other countries. Ironically I actually believe that the GLS is predominately an American SUV, 2017 combined EU and US sales being 36,800 and the Escalade's U.S. sales alone being 37,700. That again is with the Denali/Yukon/XL, and Tahoe/Suburban taking sales from the Slade sometimes

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    The GLS is made in America, I am sure this is it’s best sales country with China 2nd.  The smaller SUVs do better in the EU.

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    13 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    So the GLS outsold the Escalade during those years? U mean the one that had been introduced in 2006.. and was still 2 years away from getting a redo? WOW.. Big achievement😂

    The Escalade sells in the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Russia and Middle East. These are essentially the limited areas where GM decides to sell Cadillac, altho obviously other GM brands sell in other countries. Ironically I actually believe that the GLS is predominately an American SUV, 2017 combined EU and US sales being 36,800 and the Escalade's U.S. sales alone being 37,700. That again is with the Denali/Yukon/XL, and Tahoe/Suburban taking sales from the Slade sometimes

    ...and rightfully so. I actually like some of the Denali trims better than some of the versions of the Escalade.

    Can we all lay down arms for a second and just be happy American car makers give us choice? Love them or hate them, Jeep gives infinitely more choice than does Subaru in terms of options, colors, trims, 4wd systems and the like than Subaru does. Ford brings a lot to the table, although I am obviously not a Ford guy. And Gm gives us a huge amount of vehicle choice.

    1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

    The GLS is made in America, I am sure this is it’s best sales country with China 2nd.  The smaller SUVs do better in the EU.

    ...and rightfully so.

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    3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    ...and rightfully so. I actually like some of the Denali trims better than some of the versions of the Escalade.

    Can we all lay down arms for a second and just be happy American car makers give us choice? Love them or hate them, Jeep gives infinitely more choice than does Subaru in terms of options, colors, trims, 4wd systems and the like than Subaru does. Ford brings a lot to the table, although I am obviously not a Ford guy. And Gm gives us a huge amount of vehicle choice.

    ...and rightfully so.

    Variety and choice are the spice of life, right?  It's good we have a market with a wide variety of product at a wide range of prices..would be boring if we only had a bunch of look-a-like transport pods w/ gray interiors to choose from. 

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    Just now, Robert Hall said:

    Variety and choice are the spice of life, right?  It's good we have a market with a wide variety of product at a wide range of prices..would be boring if we only had a bunch of look-a-like transport pods w/ gray interiors to choose from. 

    Exactly.

    Don't quote me on this but I am starting to like the new Ranger just a tiny bit.

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    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Exactly.

    Don't quote me on this but I am starting to like the new Ranger just a tiny bit.

    Looking it forward to see it in person...the old Ranger was so old by the time it went out, even a design that is a few years old will seem new.

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    28 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Looking it forward to see it in person...the old Ranger was so old by the time it went out, even a design that is a few years old will seem new.

    Styling changes less frequently now than in the past...but the idea of the transmission the ranger offers and a few other perks make it interesting. Ford might be onto something here...a bullet proof midsize pickup just in time as Toyota starts to have more mechanical issues with the Tacoma.

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    Ford and GM give more choice as they eliminate the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Cruze, Impala, LaCrosse, Volt, XTS and CT6?  They are combined killing off 10 models in one year. 

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    23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Ford and GM give more choice as they eliminate the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Cruze, Impala, LaCrosse, Volt, XTS and CT6?  They are combined killing off 10 models in one year. 

    Well, considering the sales were falling for all of those, the market didn't care for them.. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
    • Upvote 1

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    24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Ford and GM give more choice as they eliminate the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Cruze, Impala, LaCrosse, Volt, XTS and CT6?  They are combined killing off 10 models in one year. 

    Deliberately trolling and being negative.....ummm....yeah....no thanks. 

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    6 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    Well, considering the sales were falling for all of those, the market didn't care for them.. 

    Everybody's seem to be falling; mercedes' CAR sales are down 14% vs. last year.

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