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    William Maley

    Rumorpile: New Document Reveals Possible C8 Powertrains

      Outputs ranging from 600 to 1,000 horsepower

    This week, Hagerty obtained a document from General Motors' executive director in charge of program management, Michelle Braun that says development on future car and truck programs has been paused due to the COVID-19 outbreak. But the document also mentions some intriguing information on upcoming powertrains for the C8 Corvette. Here are the details,

    • Corvette Z06: 5.5L DOHC V8 known as the LT6 that will produce 650 horsepower and 600 pound-feet of torque. No mention of any type of forced-induction.
    • Corvette Gran Sport: 6.2L OHC V8 with a hybrid system that's expected to produce 600 horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque.
    • Corvette ZR1: Twin-Turbo 5.5L DOHC V8, dubbed LT7. Output is expected to be 850 horsepower and 800 pound-feet.
    • Corvette Zora: The powerhouse of the C8, it will take the Twin-Turbo LT7 and augment with a hybrid system. This is expected to produce 1,000 horsepower and 975 pound-feet of torque.

    Hagerty's report says the rollout of the new engines will begin in 2022 with the LT6, but the COVID-19 outbreak may push the plans back.

    Source: Hagerty

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    we've heard of the 5.5L for awhile.

    will those power numbers be able to be put to the ground? sure electronics will play a huge part.

    how limited will these numbers be, 100 zoras a year? 1000 zr1s?

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    6 hours ago, loki said:

    we've heard of the 5.5L for awhile.

    will those power numbers be able to be put to the ground? sure electronics will play a huge part.

    how limited will these numbers be, 100 zoras a year? 1000 zr1s?

    They need all wheel drive if they are adding power otherwise it won’t get to the ground.  The Z06 is probably the limit of 2 wheel drive.  They said Zora was 2025 model year, I assume it will be low volume, probably really expensive but why not go that route.  Good money maker to have a low volume high price version.

     

    I have a big question on LT7 reliability.  Yes you can get 850 hp from a 5.5 liter if you rev the hell out of it, but I have to imagine that is going to be Ferrari like reliability and maintenance costs.  I wouldn’t be surprised if every 25-50k miles there was a $10-15,000 service  due.   

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    21 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Be interesting to see which power trains if any get AWD.

    I would bet on the hybrids getting it because electric motors in the wheel hubs = AWD.

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    The GS and Zora will be AWD with 150-200hp AC traction motor(s) in front, Zora, a Hypercar, will be limited production. Z06 LT6 5.5L is a NA flat plane crank V8 similar to the C8.R powerplant. The LT7 5.5L TT in the ZR1 and Zora are said to have regular cross plane cranks as forced induction is not usually a good thing for FPC's. These C8 models will be Beasts. Too bad all have been pushed out at least a year thanks to the current Coronavirus pandemic that originated in China. 

    1518454738_C8ZcarsandZorarollout.thumb.JPG.936b1173db478d89ed7daa2f1fd0d536.JPG

     

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    On 4/24/2020 at 2:50 PM, smk4565 said:

    I have a big question on LT7 reliability.  Yes you can get 850 hp from a 5.5 liter if you rev the hell out of it, but I have to imagine that is going to be Ferrari like reliability and maintenance costs.

    GM LS and LT V8 engines are known for being some of the most reliable engines in the world, the LT7 DOHC V8 won't change that.

    You don't have to rev the hell out of a lower compression TT engine like a high compression NA to get the power output. Although the LT6 5.5L NA FPC in the Z06 will have a 8k-9k rpm red-line being a FPC derived from the C8.R so she's made to rev. I love Ferrari's and the sound of their smaller bore 6.3L and 6.5L V12 howling scream, but they are not known for being as reliable as the GM LS/LT engines. Although, modern Ferrari's have come a long way along with the Corvette.

    C8 Z cars and Zora rollout.JPG

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    31 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    GM LS and LT V8 engines are known for being some of the most reliable engines in the world, the LT7 DOHC V8 won't change that.

    You don't have to rev the hell out of a lower compression TT engine like a high compression NA to get the power output. Although the LT6 5.5L NA FPC in the Z06 will have a 8k-9k rpm red-line being a FPC derived from the C8.R so she's made to rev. I love Ferrari's and the sound of their smaller bore 6.3L and 6.5L V12 howling scream, but they are not known for being as reliable as the GM LS/LT engines. Although, modern Ferrari's have come a long way along with the Corvette.

    C8 Z cars and Zora rollout.JPG

    GM currently doesn’t make a turbo LS/LT engine, nor do they make a V8 hybrid.  So they are going into new territory.

    Also Ferrari engines need a ton of maintenance, if the LT7 does also, I see no problem with that as long as they disclose it up front.

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    Not currently, but they've done it before- it's not a challenge or 'new territory'.

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    9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    GM currently doesn’t make a turbo LS/LT engine, nor do they make a V8 hybrid.  So they are going into new territory.

    Also Ferrari engines need a ton of maintenance, if the LT7 does also, I see no problem with that as long as they disclose it up front.

    Boosting engines (SC or TT) is definitely not new territory for GM. Recent past LSA and LS9 and current LT4 and LT5 are all modern boosted GM engines, with superchargers, but none-the-less boosted and they've been reliable engines. They've made a V8 Hybrid Tahoe/Yukon/Silverado/Sierra not that long ago ('08-'13) so also not new territory. I've driven a 2013 Tahoe Hybrid 6.0L V8, it was very smooth and quiet with a seamless transition between the two electric motors and the ICE V8, didn't sell well enough as it was too expensive for the time when the standard Tahoe started at $36k Hybrid started at over $50k, battery tech. just wasn't there yet. 

    GM builds their LS/LT V8 engines to require minimal maintenance, including boosted setups. Ferrari's do require a ton of maintenance and they build them to that spec.

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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Not currently, but they've done it before- it's not a challenge or 'new territory'.

    True but the Blackwing V8, which is closest to the LT6/LT7, makes 131 hp per liter.  Now they are going to 155 hp per liter, so that is extra boost.  Now there are 200 hp/liter engines out there, so I don't think it should be an issue, but I don't think these are going to have LS1 maintenance costs.

    The issue is really getting the power on the ground, they need an all wheel drive system that can handle 825 lb-ft.

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    1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

    Boosting engines (SC or TT) is definitely not new territory for GM. Recent past LSA and LS9 and current LT4 and LT5 are all modern boosted GM engines, with superchargers, but none-the-less boosted and they've been reliable engines. They've made a V8 Hybrid Tahoe/Yukon/Silverado/Sierra not that long ago ('08-'13) so also not new territory. I've driven a 2013 Tahoe Hybrid 6.0L V8, it was very smooth and quiet with a seamless transition between the two electric motors and the ICE V8, didn't sell well enough as it was too expensive for the time when the standard Tahoe started at $36k Hybrid started at over $50k, battery tech. just wasn't there yet. 

    GM builds their LS/LT V8 engines to require minimal maintenance, including boosted setups. Ferrari's do require a ton of maintenance and they build them to that spec.

    This engine won't be like an LS/LT engine, they are building an engine more like the Panamera Turbo Hybrid or the 2021 AMG GT73 hybrid.  Maybe those cars aren't expensive to maintain, but I would guess they don't have NA V8 ownership costs.

     

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    USA-1

    Posted (edited)

    18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    This engine won't be like an LS/LT engine, they are building an engine more like the Panamera Turbo Hybrid or the 2021 AMG GT73 hybrid.  Maybe those cars aren't expensive to maintain, but I would guess they don't have NA V8 ownership costs.

     

    Ownership costs will still not be like Ferrari or AMG maintenance.

    I was waiting to see if you'd catch it. The Blackwing LTA V8 that the LT6/7 are based off of is a Hot V TT V8 like the LT6/7 will be in the C8 for packaging and reduced lag. Not new territory for the General. 

    Either way, these engines are going to be awesome in the C8. Traction won't be an issue with the Z06 as the base C8 has so much grip that guys are having a hard time getting the tires to spin to do burnouts with the 500hp LT2 with all nannies off. That's also why they moved the engine to mid ship...for better grip in the back. The Z cars and Zora will have wider, stickier Michelin PS Cup 2 tires as well.

     

    Edited by USA-1
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    That what was said above and the Zora will be a hybrid electric.  Meaning...it will have electric motors boosting that power to 1000HP.  How many electric motors?    3?  Maybe 4?   Well...undoubtedly, like @William Maley  said waaaay above there in the beginning...IT WILL BE AWD...

    On 4/25/2020 at 11:34 AM, William Maley said:

    I would bet on the hybrids getting it because electric motors in the wheel hubs = AWD.

    But its nice to ignore all logical posts by logical people when some of us have a goddam biased agenda around here...

    And it gets tiring...

    PS:  We know NOTHING about the ZR1...  just that it will be a TTV8 possibly the 5.5liter and perhaps it WONT be a flat plane crank.   Perhaps Chevrolet engineers will have a traditional mechanical AWD system for it?

    Maybe like @USA-1 was suggesting what the C8 platform is capable of with its suspension geometry and sticky sticky rubber wont need AWD? 

    The Z06 I believe will have active aero. The other trims, ZR1, ZORA will most likely have it too...   I am not sure about the Grand Sport, though. 

    Suffice it to say, the C8 platform is a monster...

     

     

     

     

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    smk4565

    Posted (edited)

    42 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    Ownership costs will still not be like Ferrari or AMG maintenance.

    I was waiting to see if you'd catch it. The Blackwing LTA V8 that the LT6/7 are based off of is a Hot V TT V8 like the LT6/7 will be in the C8 for packaging and reduced lag. Not new territory for the General. 

    Either way, these engines are going to be awesome in the C8. Traction won't be an issue with the Z06 as the base C8 has so much grip that guys are having a hard time getting the tires to spin to do burnouts with the 500hp LT2 with all nannies off. That's also why they moved the engine to mid ship...for better grip in the back. The Z cars and Zora will have wider, stickier Michelin PS Cup 2 tires as well.

     

    Chevy is going to build a high revving, flat plane, turbo DOHC V8, which is something out of a Ferrari playbook, and you expect low maintenance?  And maybe it will, but we won't know until they have been on the road 5 years.

    Still need all wheel drive for the ZR1 and Zora, Lamborghinis are all wheel drive for a reason.  Would be good to have all wheel drive on the Z06 also.  And I mean all wheel drive from the V8 not just from the electric motors up front.   Because without AWD, that ZR1 will bet beat in 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs all day long by less powerful Porsches.

    A 911 Carrera 4S does 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and that's with 443 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque.  That's giving up 100 lb-ft to the C8 and it is still quicker and the C8's 2.95 seconds.

    Edited by smk4565

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    26 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    PS:  We know NOTHING about the ZR1...  just that it will be a TTV8 possibly the 5.5liter and perhaps it WONT be a flat plane crank.   Perhaps Chevrolet engineers will have a traditional mechanical AWD system for it?

    Maybe like @USA-1 was suggesting what the C8 platform is capable of with its suspension geometry and sticky sticky rubber wont need AWD? 

    The Z06 I believe will have active aero. The other trims, ZR1, ZORA will most likely have it too...   I am not sure about the Grand Sport, though. 

    Suffice it to say, the C8 platform is a monster...

    This big Vette guy has great info. from multiple sources. 

     

     

     

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    Ill look at it later.  Im gonna watch Young Guns II with the family right about now.

    We saw Young Guns last night.

    Yeah. Ive introduced my kids to the Old West during this pandemic...

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    USA-1

    Posted (edited)

    24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

     something out of a Ferrari playbook

    Still need all wheel drive for the ZR1 and Zora, Lamborghinis are all wheel drive for a reason.  Would be good to have all wheel drive on the Z06 also.

    Zora is AWD with the Hybrid setup! What part are you missing?! ZR1 could still very well end up having the Hybrid/AWD setup when it comes out, nothing set in stone from GM yet, but myself and others on here have faith in Team Corvette engineers.

     

    But not all Ferrari's are AWD so you couldn't say that right? You had to change it to Lambo to try to proof a meaningless point. 

     

     

    Edited by USA-1

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    33 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    Zora is AWD with the Hybrid setup! What part are you missing?! ZR1 could still very well end up having the Hybrid/AWD setup when it comes out, nothing set in stone from GM yet, but myself and others on here have faith in Team Corvette engineers.

     

    But not all Ferrari's are AWD so you couldn't say that right? You had to change it to Lambo to try to proof a meaningless point. 

     

     

    They should offer AWD on every Corvette.  Lambo and Porsche offer it on every model, AMG is moving to it on every car, the AMG GT is the last of their RWD only cars and it is at the end of the life cycle.  McLaren is going to have all wheel drive, Ferrari has it on some models, etc.  I think AWD would expand that appeal of the Corvette being the everyday, every man's sports car, if you can use it all winter long in the snow belt.

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    54 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Chevy is going to build a high revving, flat plane, turbo DOHC V8, which is something out of a Ferrari playbook, and you expect low maintenance?  And maybe it will, but we won't know until they have been on the road 5 years.

    Still need all wheel drive for the ZR1 and Zora, Lamborghinis are all wheel drive for a reason.  Would be good to have all wheel drive on the Z06 also.  And I mean all wheel drive from the V8 not just from the electric motors up front.   Because without AWD, that ZR1 will bet beat in 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs all day long by less powerful Porsches.

    A 911 Carrera 4S does 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and that's with 443 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque.  That's giving up 100 lb-ft to the C8 and it is still quicker and the C8's 2.95 seconds.

    0-60 and 1/4 mi.? Really? The C8 ZR1 will smoke a Carrera 4S, no competition. Corvette C8 is made as a track car first and foremost and does very well on the track, as designed, even as a current base model. FYI, even the C8 base model is getting under the 3 sec. mark to 60 mph by amateur owners.

    Lets put the C8 up against an actual comparable mid-engine car. The Ferrari 488 GTB 660hp RWD and 488 Pista 710hp RWD. Heck even the 812 Superfast front ME 789hp is RWD. it's called active aero and proper down-force. Notice how heavy the AWD Lamborghini's are compared to Ferrari's and Vettes? All manufactures are trying to keep weight down where possible. Zora at 1000hp definitely needs to be AWD and it will be. 

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Chevy is going to build a high revving, flat plane, turbo DOHC V8, which is something out of a Ferrari playbook, and you expect low maintenance?

    What are ferrari's crankshaft maintenance recommendations?

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    23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    They should offer AWD on every Corvette.  Lambo and Porsche offer it on every model, AMG is moving to it on every car, the AMG GT is the last of their RWD only cars and it is at the end of the life cycle.  McLaren is going to have all wheel drive, Ferrari has it on some models, etc.  I think AWD would expand that appeal of the Corvette being the everyday, every man's sports car, if you can use it all winter long in the snow belt.

    Even if all C8 Corvettes had AWD would you want to take the chance that some knucklehead might slide into your car in the snow or ice? It's hardly ever my car or my driving that I have to worry about it's the moron who isn't paying attention driving a $500 hoopdy with no insurance and can't drive for sh!t.  

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    15 hours ago, USA-1 said:

    0-60 and 1/4 mi.? Really? The C8 ZR1 will smoke a Carrera 4S, no competition. Corvette C8 is made as a track car first and foremost and does very well on the track, as designed, even as a current base model. FYI, even the C8 base model is getting under the 3 sec. mark to 60 mph by amateur owners.

    Lets put the C8 up against an actual comparable mid-engine car. The Ferrari 488 GTB 660hp RWD and 488 Pista 710hp RWD. Heck even the 812 Superfast front ME 789hp is RWD. it's called active aero and proper down-force. Notice how heavy the AWD Lamborghini's are compared to Ferrari's and Vettes? All manufactures are trying to keep weight down where possible. Zora at 1000hp definitely needs to be AWD and it will be. 

    The 911 Turbo S probably beats all them because it is all wheel drive.

    Even the 2020 Ferrari F8 which replaces the 488 and has 710 hp, has the same 0-60 time as a 443 hp 911.  And look at lap times on tracks, the 911 and Huracan are among the best out there with all wheel drive.

     

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    15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The 911 Turbo S probably beats all them because it is all wheel drive.

    Even the 2020 Ferrari F8 which replaces the 488 and has 710 hp, has the same 0-60 time as a 443 hp 911.  And look at lap times on tracks, the 911 and Huracan are among the best out there with all wheel drive.

     

    I never said AWD doesn't have better traction because obviously it does. I'm saying it adds a lot of weight and it's not always necessary. Lambo's are the porkers of the Italian exotics because of the AWD system. Zora will smoke a 911 TS even the C7 ZR1 is right on it's heels and C8 ZR1 will put the hurt on it. GM's eLSD rear diff. is pretty advanced and with Michelin PS Cup 2 rubber it'll be a good show. 

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    USA-1

    Posted (edited)

    3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The 911 Turbo S probably beats all them because it is all wheel drive.

     

     

     

     

    OR...

    Lap Times 5

    Track Corvette ZR1 Porsche 911 Turbo S
    NCM Motorsport Park 1:25.93 1:32.07
    Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course (post 01/2014) 2:39.50 2:46.80
    Laguna Seca (post 1988) 1:32.46 1:33.21
    Hockenheim Short 1:06.90 1:07.40
    Willow Springs 1:23.70 1:24.26
       

    https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/epm24ggtlfz0

         
         
         
         
    Edited by USA-1
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Hackett, 65, and Farley, 58, will work together on a smooth leadership transition over the next two months. Under Hackett, Ford moved aggressively into the new era of smart vehicles and drove a deeper focus on customers’ wants and needs. At the same time, Ford improved the fitness of the base business – restructuring operations, invigorating the product portfolio and reducing bureaucracy. “I am very grateful to Jim Hackett for all he has done to modernize Ford and prepare us to compete and win in the future,” said Bill Ford, Ford’s executive chairman. “Our new product vision – led by the Mustang Mach-E, new F-150 and Bronco family – is taking shape. We now have compelling plans for electric and autonomous vehicles, as well as full vehicle connectivity. And we are becoming much more nimble, which was apparent when we quickly mobilized to make life-saving equipment at the outset of the pandemic.” Farley, an automotive leader with deep global experience and a successful track record, collaborated with Hackett over the past three years to develop and execute Ford’s Creating Tomorrow Together plan to transform Ford into a higher-growth, higher-margin business. “Jim Farley matches an innate feel for cars and customers with great instincts for the future and the new technologies that are changing our industry,” Bill Ford said. “Jim’s passion for great vehicles and his intense drive for results are well known, and I have also seen him develop into a transformational leader with the determination and foresight to help Ford thrive into the future.” Farley joined Ford in 2007 as global head of Marketing and Sales and went on to lead Lincoln, Ford South America, Ford of Europe and all Ford global markets in successive roles. In April 2019, Farley was chosen to lead Ford’s New Businesses, Technology & Strategy team, helping the company determine how to capitalize on powerful forces reshaping the industry – such as software platforms, connectivity, AI, automation and new forms of propulsion. He was named chief operating officer in February of this year. Hackett, who will continue as a special advisor to Ford through March of 2021, said the time is right to pass the mantle of leadership to Jim Farley. “My goal when I took on the CEO role was to prepare Ford to win in the future,” Hackett said. “The hardest thing for a proud, long-lived company to do is change to meet the challenges of the world it’s entering rather than the world it has known. I’m very proud of how far we have come in creating a modern Ford and I am very optimistic about the future. “I have worked side-by-side with Jim Farley for the past three years and have the greatest confidence in him as a person and a leader,” Hackett said. “He has been instrumental in crafting our new product portfolio and redesigning our businesses around the world. He is also a change agent with a deep understanding of how to lead Ford in this new era defined by smart vehicles in a smart world.” Said Farley: “I love Ford and I am honored by the opportunity to serve and create value for Ford’s employees, customers, dealers, communities and all of our stakeholders. Jim Hackett has laid the foundation for a really vibrant future and we have made tremendous progress in the past three years. I am so excited to work together with the whole Ford team to realize the full potential of this great company in a new era.” View full article
    • I had sooooo wanted to post a 1955 Chieftain when I posted the Buick pic a couple of days ago. I just ran out of steam. I have been tired from work these past few days.  I was just too lazy to search for the perfect picture of one. But then Balthy posted the front end.   Great minds think alike. So Ill do Balthy, myself and the car some justice right now.  
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