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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    Toyota to Take Bigger Interest in Subaru

      ...time to buy some stock...

    Toyota is in plans to purchase additional shares of Subaru to raise its stake to over 20% from around 17% today. Subaru in kind will also invest back in Toyota via a similar stock purchase of Toyota. If the deal is approved by Toyota's board, it is a step towards making Subaru a whole owned subsidiary that would create a 'Mega Toyota'.  Toyota recently announced a similar purchase of Suzuki shares to form a new alliance for the Indian market. 

    Toyota and Subaru have worked together before on projects such as the Subaru BRZ / Toyota 86 and Subaru for a time built Toyota Camrys at its plant in Indiana.

    Toyota sees Subaru as being strong in sport utility vehicles and in all-wheel drive technology. Toyota and Subaru have also announced plans to jointly build a platform for an electric SUV.

    Source: AutoBlog/Reuters



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    Consolidation is what the auto company needs and this appears to me to be a first step in that direction.

    I wonder how it would be viewed here in America, I am sure there are those that would be yelling the Anti-trust crusade against this.

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    6 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Consolidation is what the auto company needs and this appears to me to be a first step in that direction.

    I wonder how it would be viewed here in America, I am sure there are those that would be yelling the Anti-trust crusade against this.

    You can't have anti-trust when you have this many companies competing. 

    Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, (yes, they're separate), Daimler, BMW, JLR, VW, Mazda, FCA, Mitsubishi, Tesla, Volvo

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    You can't have anti-trust when you have this many companies competing. 

    Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, (yes, they're separate), Daimler, BMW, JLR, VW, Mazda, FCA, Mitsubishi, Tesla, Volvo

    True, I was just thinking of the groups that seem to think everything is anti-trust and sue over every possible merger.

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    Toyota should just buy 100% of Subaru, FCA, Mazda and Nissan, kill half the brands and consolidate all that and get it over with.

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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    ^ can’t argue against that.

    toyoter should buy daimler; they have just enough cash to do it.

    There's a culture clash waiting to happen.... 

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    3 hours ago, balthazar said:

    ^ can’t argue against that.

    toyoter should buy daimler; they have just enough cash to do it.

    Actually, China may be more likely to buy out all these lame brands and possibly clean house just to rationalize the auto industry AND devour all that auto IP without violating any laws or treaties.  Toyota, not so much.  Toyota actually has to listen to shareholders.

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    15 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    Actually, China may be more likely to buy out all these lame brands and possibly clean house just to rationalize the auto industry AND devour all that auto IP without violating any laws or treaties.  Toyota, not so much.  Toyota actually has to listen to shareholders.

    This would make total sense, buy up all the lame ducks, then fold them into the brands they want global and push out the Chinese products while killing off the Asian, European and American brands.

    Chinese domination of the world with some backlash.

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    China might do that.  I don't see how Subaru and Mazda survive as independents with how expensive self driving and electric car development is.  If Toyota bought both, and utilized the AWD system of Subaru, the sky active engines of Mazda and Toyota hybrids and their own stuff, they can come up with a powertrain they can put all over the place, and have a 4 brand line up.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    ...with how expensive [   ] electric car development is.

    Pffft- the development is cheap. Less moving parts, less R&D, less assembly labor. It's the vendor battery cost.... and the OEM markup that's expensive.

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    Interesting, because I don't see China having that much cash. They manipulate their currency more than Willie Nelson cleans out his pipe, and China's economy is in the dumpster for good reason.

    As far as Toyota they'll continue to try to partner with or buy stock in other automakers, it's what they've done for decades, TMC is pretty unoriginal anymore. The "new Supra" is just a BMW Z4 wrapped in Supra sheet metal, and then there's the BRZ/FRS twins that's all Subaru, again minus the sheet metal. No pride in development anymore at Toyota, look how old all of their models are including most Lexus models. There's also the "NUMMI" co-op they had with GM in Freemont, CA back in the 90's where they mainly built the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix. I have a buddy from college who worked there and said it was basically Toyota learning from GM on how to better operate in the US market because it's much different from Japan's. They partner with well established auto giants like GM or smaller ones depending on the industry knowledge or technology they can gain from them. Is there an auto manufacturer Toyota hasn't partnered with or tried to at some point? I know there are some, just making a point that the Asian brands including Hyundai/Kia have always copied others in many ways. 

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    8 hours ago, USA-1 Vortec 6.2 said:

    Interesting, because I don't see China having that much cash. They manipulate their currency more than Willie Nelson cleans out his pipe, and China's economy is in the dumpster for good reason.

    As far as Toyota they'll continue to try to partner with or buy stock in other automakers, it's what they've done for decades, TMC is pretty unoriginal anymore. The "new Supra" is just a BMW Z4 wrapped in Supra sheet metal, and then there's the BRZ/FRS twins that's all Subaru, again minus the sheet metal. No pride in development anymore at Toyota, look how old all of their models are including most Lexus models. There's also the "NUMMI" co-op they had with GM in Freemont, CA back in the 90's where they mainly built the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix. I have a buddy from college who worked there and said it was basically Toyota learning from GM on how to better operate in the US market because it's much different from Japan's. They partner with well established auto giants like GM or smaller ones depending on the industry knowledge or technology they can gain from them. Is there an auto manufacturer Toyota hasn't partnered with or tried to at some point? I know there are some, just making a point that the Asian brands including Hyundai/Kia have always copied others in many ways. 

    Yes, Toyota and Hyundai/KIA do copy others in terms of CARS and markets.  They did not copy the bad ideas, such as slavish worship of the bottom line and really antagonistic unions (SK aside).  Arguably, Toyota may have the best of both worlds these days from a financial standpoint.  If originality made the kind of cash flow that is heavily desired, Toyota would be in serious trouble.  Then again, Toyota has big market share and a lot of loyal customers since 1978 who will NEVER buy a GM or Ford vehicle again.  Toyota now is what Chevrolet was in 1970: the default choice of (nowadays) FWD appliances.  Especially in this era of leasing dominating the marketplace and 72 month financing, Toyota is in an enviable position and it will probably stay that way for a long time to come. 

    As for China, China could still buy out a lot of weak automakers when the next recession hits and still clean house since that government has huge ambitions and nearly unlimited resources to do just that.

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    False public perception of Toyota being a "default choice" is just sheeple following the herd. Especially, since the early 2000's when Toyota quality and craftsmanship took a downward turn and hasn't come back. I know people that have have many problems with Toyota vehicles for example the Unintended Acceleration Recall that included over 4 million vehicles that TMC would like all of us to forget, those people will or should NEVER by a Toyota again if they had a clue. I've never owned a Toyota and never will because I don't fall for their false perception of quality. Toyota is the choice of today's "throw away car" nothing that will ever be a Classic car like many 1970's Chevrolet's are today.  

    I never said China didn't have "huge ambitions" to buy up what they can, but they also like to STEAL anything they can. China as a country wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are now without the U.S.A., sad as it may sound. My point of the country buying certain automakers would come down to the persuasion the US Gov't would have, in that, many of those foreign owned automakers have manf. plants here in the US that own the land the plants sit on. Guaranteed our Gov't will hold up that transaction because those automakers have US laws to abide by when it comes to more US soil being sold to a communist, hostile country like China.  

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    9 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    Yes, Toyota and Hyundai/KIA do copy others in terms of CARS and markets.  They did not copy the bad ideas, such as slavish worship of the bottom line and really antagonistic unions (SK aside).  Arguably, Toyota may have the best of both worlds these days from a financial standpoint.  If originality made the kind of cash flow that is heavily desired, Toyota would be in serious trouble.  Then again, Toyota has big market share and a lot of loyal customers since 1978 who will NEVER buy a GM or Ford vehicle again.  Toyota now is what Chevrolet was in 1970: the default choice of (nowadays) FWD appliances.  Especially in this era of leasing dominating the marketplace and 72 month financing, Toyota is in an enviable position and it will probably stay that way for a long time to come. 

    As for China, China could still buy out a lot of weak automakers when the next recession hits and still clean house since that government has huge ambitions and nearly unlimited resources to do just that.

    False public perception of Toyota being a "default choice" is just Sheeple following the herd. Especially, since the early 2000's when Toyota quality and craftsmanship took a downward turn and hasn't come back. I know people who have had many problems with Toyota vehicles one for example the huge "Unintended Acceleration" Recall that included over 4 million vehicles that TMC would like all of us to forget, those people will or should NEVER buy a Toyota again if they had a clue. I've never owned a Toyota and never will because I don't fall for their false perception of quality. Toyota is the choice of today's "throw away car" nothing that will ever be a Classic car like many 1970's Chevrolet's are today.  

    I never said China didn't have "huge ambitions" to buy up what they can, but they also like to STEAL anything they can. China as a country wouldn't be anywhere close to where they are now without the U.S.A., sad as it may sound. My point of the country buying certain automakers would come down to the persuasion the U.S. Gov't would have, in that, many of those foreign owned automakers have manf. plants here in the U.S. that own the land the plants sit on. Guaranteed the U.S. Gov't will hold up that transaction because those automakers have laws to abide by when it comes to more U.S. soil being sold to a communist, hostile country like China.

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    You guys are quick to glutton and band all the the brands together- they need to just die on their own. There is nothing wrong with teaming up-that is the future. Companies like Mazda or Ford would simply just go out of business, and what little successful products they have other companies can just pick the bones of. I also expect China to get into the cheap car game very soon, putting many companies on both notice and out of business (and we wonder why GM is fighting the UAW).

     

    I’ve said it before, and will say it again-the day of the car (or truck) is dying...you’ll NEVER see the same sales number of a few years ago. With a society that can bring everything to your door, there is no longer a needed expense for a vehicle. And with the current price, student debt, and upcoming recession-who can blame them? Times are going to change ...more than folks expect......

    Over half the companies you see now will either be gone (or bought by China to brand image their cheap cars).  Vehicles are going the same way as brick and mortar retail........

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    Respectively, I don’t think so, Tim. If mitshu could go thru numerous scandalous revelations on corporate negligence and still be selling vehicles (somehow), I don’t see cause for a majority to ‘simply go out of business’. Especially Ford (we know you hate the Co.). 

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    18 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

    You guys are quick to glutton and band all the the brands together- they need to just die on their own. There is nothing wrong with teaming up-that is the future. Companies like Mazda or Ford would simply just go out of business, and what little successful products they have other companies can just pick the bones of. I also expect China to get into the cheap car game very soon, putting many companies on both notice and out of business (and we wonder why GM is fighting the UAW).

     

    I’ve said it before, and will say it again-the day of the car (or truck) is dying...you’ll NEVER see the same sales number of a few years ago. With a society that can bring everything to your door, there is no longer a needed expense for a vehicle. And with the current price, student debt, and upcoming recession-who can blame them? Times are going to change ...more than folks expect......

    Over half the companies you see now will either be gone (or bought by China to brand image their cheap cars).  Vehicles are going the same way as brick and mortar retail........

    China has already tried their hand at car manufacturing and failed miserably, so they would definitely have to lie, cheat and steal their way in, like usual. The cheap junk cars the Chinese tried to build couldn't pass US DOT and prob never will. South Korean cars aren't much better, DOT let things slide with Hyundai and Kia back when they starting selling in the U.S. in the mid 80's that would never fly today. My cousin had an '88 Hyundai Excel that was the biggest POS ever made and very unsafe, multiple issues mainly with the brakes and just a horrible build quality. Hyundai definitely didn't "Excel" at anything then and still really don't today unless they copy other manufacturers designs, too bad US DOT didn't cut them out back then.

    No, there's nothing wrong with Auto Manufacturers teaming up, but it's all that Toyota really does anymore. I know GM and Honda have recently teamed up on the Hydrogen Fuel Cells that Honda can bring to the table and the EV/Hybrid tech GM has to bring as well, but that's technology sharing, not buying another manufacturer's chassis and powertrain to put your sheet metal on like Toyota loves to do. I mean Toyota should at least have enough pride to put their own powertrain in it, but then again TMC obviously doesn't have a decent powertrain that's not 10+ years old so... 

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    4 hours ago, balthazar said:

    Respectively, I don’t think so, Tim. If mitshu could go thru numerous scandalous revelations on corporate negligence and still be selling vehicles (somehow), I don’t see cause for a majority to ‘simply go out of business’. Especially Ford (we know you hate the Co.). 

    I don't hate Ford...(not sure where you got that) Not sure how my name is Tim either... 😮 

    And while my revolation is a bit on the dark side I admit (Hey, I don't like it either)

    I want to know where they are going to go?

    I chose Ford only as an example- the only thing holding their head above water right now is the F-150.

    The Explorer is nearly a failed launch- and I'm not so sure about the Escape.

    And as much as I don't like the girly looking Escape- I don't  want it to fail.

    This is putting some serious pressure on the Bronco to be a major success...

    Come on, don't hate the player, hate the game..... 😉 

     

    Edited by daves87rs
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    3 hours ago, USA-1 Vortec 6.2 said:

    China has already tried their hand at car manufacturing and failed miserably, so they would definitely have to lie, cheat and steal their way in, like usual. The cheap junk cars the Chinese tried to build couldn't pass US DOT and prob never will. South Korean cars aren't much better, DOT let things slide with Hyundai and Kia back when they starting selling in the U.S. in the mid 80's that would never fly today. My cousin had an '88 Hyundai Excel that was the biggest POS ever made and very unsafe, multiple issues mainly with the brakes and just a horrible build quality. Hyundai definitely didn't "Excel" at anything then and still really don't today unless they copy other manufacturers designs, too bad US DOT didn't cut them out back then.

    No, there's nothing wrong with Auto Manufacturers teaming up, but it's all that Toyota really does anymore. I know GM and Honda have recently teamed up on the Hydrogen Fuel Cells that Honda can bring to the table and the EV/Hybrid tech GM has to bring as well, but that's technology sharing, not buying another manufacturer's chassis and powertrain to put your sheet metal on like Toyota loves to do. I mean Toyota should at least have enough pride to put their own powertrain in it, but then again TMC obviously doesn't have a decent powertrain that's not 10+ years old so... 

    Too bad Hyundai/KIA offered a ten-year warranty in 2001 and still have it to this day.  Too bad GM and Ford did not try to come close to matching that.  Hyundai came a long way from the late 80s and the 90s, where it made no sense to buy anything they were selling.  There are very few Hyundais and KIAs from before 2001 on the road these days, mostly because of awful sales.

    As for Toyota, there is no compelling reason to buy one of those vehicles anymore that you cannot get from another automaker at either a better value or with more/better features in most cases.

    In the next global recession, China will probably find a way to buy out the weaker auto nameplates for pennies on the dollar and do what they please, either in the CDM or worldwide.  China is the the world's biggest car market now.

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    3 hours ago, USA-1 Vortec 6.2 said:

    China has already tried their hand at car manufacturing and failed miserably, so they would definitely have to lie, cheat and steal their way in, like usual. The cheap junk cars the Chinese tried to build couldn't pass US DOT and prob never will. South Korean cars aren't much better, DOT let things slide with Hyundai and Kia back when they starting selling in the U.S. in the mid 80's that would never fly today. My cousin had an '88 Hyundai Excel that was the biggest POS ever made and very unsafe, multiple issues mainly with the brakes and just a horrible build quality. Hyundai definitely didn't "Excel" at anything then and still really don't today unless they copy other manufacturers designs, too bad US DOT didn't cut them out back then.

    No, there's nothing wrong with Auto Manufacturers teaming up, but it's all that Toyota really does anymore. I know GM and Honda have recently teamed up on the Hydrogen Fuel Cells that Honda can bring to the table and the EV/Hybrid tech GM has to bring as well, but that's technology sharing, not buying another manufacturer's chassis and powertrain to put your sheet metal on like Toyota loves to do. I mean Toyota should at least have enough pride to put their own powertrain in it, but then again TMC obviously doesn't have a decent powertrain that's not 10+ years old so... 

    Considering I deal with China (and the rest of the world) on a daily basis, I would say it is a dated theory now. The rest of the world is catching up to us fast. Not perfect, but they are getting there...

     I do hear you though. Sometimes it just doesn't hurt though. Me happy that FCA is not playing around too much with the Dodge twins and kinda Jeep. (though that baby Jeep is not bad. 🙂 ) I think EV is going to bring everyone's tech together....

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    53 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

    Considering I deal with China (and the rest of the world) on a daily basis, I would say it is a dated theory now. The rest of the world is catching up to us fast. Not perfect, but they are getting there...

     I do hear you though. Sometimes it just doesn't hurt though. Me happy that FCA is not playing around too much with the Dodge twins and kinda Jeep. (though that baby Jeep is not bad. 🙂 ) I think EV is going to bring everyone's tech together....

    The rest of the world is catching up to us by riding on our gigantic coat tail, because our past selfish or clueless politicians and administrations have let them.  

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    1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

    Too bad Hyundai/KIA offered a ten-year warranty in 2001 and still have it to this day.  Too bad GM and Ford did not try to come close to matching that.  Hyundai came a long way from the late 80s and the 90s, where it made no sense to buy anything they were selling.  There are very few Hyundais and KIAs from before 2001 on the road these days, mostly because of awful sales.

    As for Toyota, there is no compelling reason to buy one of those vehicles anymore that you cannot get from another automaker at either a better value or with more/better features in most cases.

    In the next global recession, China will probably find a way to buy out the weaker auto nameplates for pennies on the dollar and do what they please, either in the CDM or worldwide.  China is the the world's biggest car market now.

    If people actually read the fine print of the 10yr./100k mi. Hyundai warranty they would see certain important parts aren't included so it's not a true bumper to bumper, and it's not transferable to the next owner(s) where it drops significantly in yrs./mileage coverage. GM on the other hand has 3yr./36k mi. to 4yr. 50k mi. bumper to bumper and a 5yr./60k mi. 6yr./70k mi. powertrain warranty that is transferable to the next owner(s). Hyundai knows that most people don't keep a vehicle for 10yrs. or even 100k mi. and would lose their @sses with warranty work if they did, but the typical throw away car buyer will take the long warranty bait on a cheap car make that isn't known for being reliable at all. 2001 or older Hyundai's or KIA's are in the junk yard.

    I realize that China is the largest car market now because more and more of the billions of Chinese are driving and clouding the country out with smog because their cheap emissions equipment is very ineffective on most of their vehicles, no real industry standards are set. There are many billionaire investors in China that could possibly buy struggling car manufacturers, but the country as a whole is in bad shape right now, and many economic analysts say China is in a recession right now or very close to one, but they won't admit it to the rest of the world for fear of further economic woes. 

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      One area that the Corolla Hatchback’s predecessor impressed me was the handling. It felt planted and had surprising reflexes when going through a bend, but the rubbery steering did let it down. The Corolla Hatchback carries this torch as it feels even sharper with less body roll and a nimble feel. Steering is improved as well with a more natural feel when turning. I’ll still put the last-generation Mazda3 and Volkswagen Golf as the best-handling models in the class, but Corolla Hatchback isn’t too far behind.
      Despite its sporting intentions, the Corolla Hatchback coped very well on Detroit’s shambolic roads with most bumps and ruts being smoothed over. Part of this comes down to the SE having 16-inch wheels, allowing for more sidewall. Road noise is kept out, but there is a fair amount of wind noise that enters when driving on the freeway.
      Toyota pulled most of the stops out when working on the Corolla Hatchback and their efforts have paid off. It is the best looking Corolla in quite some time, offers surprising handling characteristics, and comes well equipped for the money. The SE begins at $21,090 and that includes adaptive cruise control, pre-collision system with pedestrian detection, eight-inch touchscreen, and LED lighting. Where the Corolla Hatchback loses ground is rear-seat space and cargo room which trails competitors by a significant amount. That’s the make or break decision as to whether you should or shouldn’t consider one.
      Nevertheless, Toyota has done the seemingly impossible: Made the Corolla interesting.
      Disclaimer: Toyota Provided the Corolla Hatchback, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2019
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Corolla Hatchback
      Trim: SE
      Engine: 2.0L DOHC 16-Valve D4S Four-Cylinder
      Driveline: Front-Wheel Drive, CVT
      Horsepower @ RPM: 168 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 151 @ 4,800 
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 32/42/36
      Curb Weight: 3,060 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Toyota, Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $21,090
      As Tested Price: $23,639.00 (Includes $920.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      SE Preferred Package - $1,400.00
      Carpet Mat Package - $229.00
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Los Angeles - Toyota Debuted today the Toyota RAV-4 Prime, a plug-in version of their RAV-4 hybrid.  The RAV-4 Prime ups the ante with a big bump to the horsepower figure, 302 horses combined between the gasoline engine and electric motors.  The gives the RAV-4 Prime a projected 0-60 of 5.8 seconds, the second fastest 0-60 in the Toyota lineup, while also delivering 90 MPGe. The RAV-4 Prime is capable of driving up to 39 miles in EV mode, making it the highest range PHEV SUV on the market. 
      In building the Prime, Toyota added a new higher capacity lithium-ion battery and a booster converter. That, combined with more powerful motor/generators give the electric side of the hybrid system an 83 horsepower boost. The engine is a variant of the 2.5 liter Atkinson-cycle gasoline unit found in the standard RAV-4 Hybrid and it produces the same 176 horsepower.  The larger battery is mounted under the floor so there is no compromise on interior space and it adds to a level of stability by giving the RAV-4 Prime a lower center of gravity.  
      RAV-4 Prime's electric on-demand all-wheel drive system is the same setup as found in the RAV-4. Rear mounted electric motors power the rear wheels on demand, including heavy acceleration situations. The AWD system also works to reduce understeer during cornering for better handling performance. 
      Starting with the 2020 model year, every Toyota Hybrid Battery Warranty has been increased from 8 years or 100,000 miles to 10 years from original date of first use, or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first.
      Available in SE and XSE grades, the RAV-4 Prime will be available mid-summer 2020 as a 2021 model year. 

      View full article
  • Posts

    • +1,000,000 well said, as a GM fan and a Heavy Cadillac buyer, recently they have nothing to really excite me and while the CT6 Blackwing is exciting, before I can even see one in person and try it out, they appear to be killing it. You hit the nail on the head surreal1272 that all businesses are in the business to make money, some just pay attention to the little details that actually make more money than playing politics and kissing ass.
    • This was the current CX9? Yes I know some are longer body, shorter legs or long legs, shorter body. I actually am in the middle with body length equal to leg length and I guess my 5" extra height makes a big difference to me as I could not fit in the front passenger seat as it did not go back or go down as much as the drivers seat. I had to have the drivers seat all the way down and back to fit into the CX9. The racked windshield also makes it much hard to get into the auto as you have to bend the head down and put your butt in before pulling legs and head into the auto. Fact is we all have different body types and those that know me as a large body building 6'6" tall man knows pretty much all Asian auto's fit smaller people. Here is a picture of me and my family. Wife, daughter and Son all 5'8" and then me at 6'6". Except for my daughter, everyone has broad shoulders.
    • All companies are in the business to make money but what sets some of them apart is the non-stop bean counting yet still wasting money and R&D (see the money spent on developing the CT6). Furthermore, RWD or FWD, at least the Aviator has real engine options with power to boot. Lincoln has somehow done what Cadillac should have already been doing (and no I am not a fan of Lincoln or the Aviator). What’s the XT6 rocking bedsides being sat upon the wrong platform (again the bean counting by forgoing the Omega platform)? That 3.6L that’s in just about everything else GM makes? The point here is that you can make money and still act like you give a damn about the little things. GM has a mixed record with that, at best.
    • Guest
      So all this doomsday at Cadillac really get over it. GM is in the business to make money plain and simple.  The XT6 is beautiful in person.  Much better than any of the pics.  Lincoln's new Aviator won't sell anywhere near the XT6 amount and its actually kind of ugly like most Lincolns.  Nobody really cares about front or rear wheel drive in a SUV. Most probably just want AWD.  The new CT4 and CT5 are sharp looking in person.   Is GM doing stuff I scratch my head of course but at the same time they are making money. If the new Tahoe, Surburban, Yukon and Escalade are hits GM will be printing money with them.
    • @dfeltHere we go again with 5'8" people.  I am 6'1" and had no issues with CX-9 driver seat. CX-9 indeed tighter on space than some other three row crossovers but it handles like a sports sedan and looks great compared to the rest of soap boxes in the segment.  
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