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Market Watch! GM's Incentives Drop - Japan's Shoot Up


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Market Watch! GM's Incentives Drop - Japan's Shoot Up

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Just got the year-end sales figures from our crack team of automotive data editors and analysts. These guys have my ultimate respect, because they somehow manage to corral all the sales, pricing and incentives figures scattered throughout the automotive industry and transform them into something a journalist major can understand. Some of the more compelling figures from 2006:

1. General Motors' U.S. market share dropped to 24.6 percent, but the bulk of it came from cutting back on fleet sales. Not surprisingly, GM's incentive spending also dropped by 17.5 percent, to its lowest level since 2002 (and the lowest level of any domestic carmaker). Per vehicle incentive spending averaged $2,987. Our analyst are actually predicting an increase in GM market share for 2007.

2. Toyota's market share grew to 15.5 percent, and they officially became the third largest automaker (in terms of sales) in North America (displacing Chrysler). So the "Big 3" term is certifiably dead (or, at the very least, it now indicates a different group of automakers...). However, Toyota's incentive spending was at the highest level in five years, with an average of $1,061 per vehicle.

3. Nissan had the highest incentive spending of any Asian carmaker (that's Japan and Korea) with an average of $2,309 per vehicle (that's up 30 percent from 2005). Their market share dropped to 6.2 percent.

4. Honda's market share rose to 9.2 percent, while their average incentive spending was $720 per vehcle. However, the Pilot had record incentives at $1,550 and both the MDX and RL had incentives of over $2,000 throughout 2006.

5. Ford and Chrysler both lost market share. Ford's average incentive spending was $3,438 per vehicle, Chrysler's was $3,798 (both amounts are the highest in five years for each company).

6. Hyundai/Kia is on fire. They sold 12,000 vehicles in 1994; last year they sold 450,000 vehicles. Market share is up to 4.6 percent. Average incentive spending was $1,777 per vehicle. They should easily crack the half-million mark for sales in 2007.

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4. Honda's market share rose to 9.2 percent, while their average incentive spending was $720 per vehcle. However, the Pilot had record incentives at $1,550 and both the MDX and RL had incentives of over $2,000 throughout 2006.

The RL needs incentives to sell. But the Pilot and MDX were both on their last years (well the Pilot is now, and the MDX was in 2006). Honda's incentives are still amazingly low, and the vehicles they're spending a lot on are the most expensive from their lineup. Lol @ Chrysler, $3,800! At least GM is realizing incentives hurt them in the long run. It's either hurt now, save yourself later, or cash in a little now, and be even more screwed later. Looks like Chrysler is taking the later route.

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$3k is still too much for GM to be spending on vehicles. I predict that with the new T900 Silverado and Sierra incentives will drop about $700 more on average (just from those two models, as I'm guessing they make up about 1/5 of GM's sales and their incentives are going to drop dramtically). Also, the Lambdas should help as well as the new Malibu when it comes. Those are all replacing heavily-discounted vehicles (Lambdas replace CSVs).

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Ideally I would like to see GM's incentive drop below $500. But I do not think it will happen anytime soon. I somehow do not understand how these so called analysts seperate the incentives from the price which the customer has bargained down to. But certainly credit goes to GM for this change of tide. In addition the import humper #1 edmunds is being a bit soft and actually giving good words about GM.
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Looking at Chrysler, its just painful to see that amount of incentives being used. Ok I admit..it's a little funny too. Nissan and Toyota's increased incentives didn't come as a surprise as I've been seeing their commercials a lot lately, BUY BUY BUY!

As for Honda, the RL is just enjoying its existence sitting there on dealer lots and even with incentives I'm not sure I'd buy the thing. There are much better competitors out there or coming soon from other manufacturers and within Acura as most people prefer the TL over the RL.

"Our analyst are actually predicting an increase in GM market share for 2007."

When was the last time we saw that typed out about GM?

In addition the import humper #1 edmunds is being a bit soft and actually giving good words about GM.

IMO, Edmunds is a good car site whether you believe it or not and one I visit daily along with C&G. It's not that they've "gone soft", it's because GM is starting to make good products and naturally, good news follows good products. Saying Edmunds is becoming soft towards GM is taking away the credit GM has earned by developing well made vehicles. Edited by big blue
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Looking at Chrysler, its just painful to see that amount of incentives being used. Ok I admit..it's a little funny too. Nissan and Toyota's increased incentives didn't come as a surprise as I've been seeing their commercials a lot lately, BUY BUY BUY!

As for Honda, the RL is just enjoying its existence sitting there on dealer lots and even with incentives I'm not sure I'd buy the thing. There are much better competitors out there or coming soon from other manufacturers and within Acura as most people prefer the TL over the RL.

"Our analyst are actually predicting an increase in GM market share for 2007."

When was the last time we saw that typed out about GM?

IMO, Edmunds is a good car site whether you believe it or not and one I visit daily along with C&G. It's not that they've "gone soft", it's because GM is starting to make good products and naturally, good news follows good products. Saying Edmunds is becoming soft towards GM is taking away the credit GM has earned by developing well made vehicles.

I agree, edmunds will give a car good reviews if it's a good car. If they were import humpers they wouldn't give such high marks to the Charger, 300, Magnum, Aura, Fusion, Outlook, etc. Those all got good reviews because they are good cars. Just like they give bad reviews to bad cars (go check out the Echo road test). Sure, they can be a little stupid at times, and some of their comments are unnecessary and idiotic, but for the most part they're good. I also like TCC.

Edited by Dodgefan
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It seems obvious that so-called incentives hurt resale and image; however, they are a mixed blessing in reality. Some customers are what I call Olympic Negotiators. That is, they will shop for the deal, not the vehicle. They don't care if they even like the vehicle, as long as they think the dealer is bleeding out its eyes. For these people, a $300 discount receives a mere snort or chuckle. It is for these people that the many "hidden" and not hidden programs are useful.

I have had people whine to me that they loved the Versa but wouldn't buy it because the dealer wouldn't budge on the price and the lease rate was 6.9. Give them $1,000 off a Cobalt and that is just an opening bid! Without these incentives, we might lose a few of those people, which on the face of it isn't such a bad thing, but GM needs to scrounge for every customer these days.

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Part of it is also down to mix-The vehicles Toyota spends heavily on incentives still don't sell, so the average remains very low, while the few models GM offers high incentives on make up a much larger percentage of sales. From a financial point of view it's still bad for GM—you don't want to be dependent on a segment which depends heavily on incentives to sell—but as a reflection of relative popularity it can be misleading.

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3. Nissan had the highest incentive spending of any Asian carmaker (that's Japan and Korea) with an average of $2,309 per vehicle (that's up 30 percent from 2005). Their market share dropped to 6.2 percent.

Too bad that whole take over thing didn't work out so save GM. (sarcasm)

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I am an one of those people who will come in and fight, fight, fight, fight and fight some more. Look at it this way my Bonneville SLE was $32,935.00 sticker... (Never would pay that!) The dealer had the car listed at $26,349.00 (with 3,000 miles it was a dealer exec. car) as I recall, but that was too high (but I LOVED the car and had to have an SLE because of the styling and my wife wouldn't let me get a GXP because of fuel economy. This was June 15ish 2005 keep in my mind I drove down to the dealer the DAY it was listed and I let the games begin... I made NO mention of my trade until the end, so I got him down to $25,000... I am like not good enough Kerry, he came back and counter offered me with $23,749 (I had wanted $22,000) I said no way Kerry. He went back into the boss and said $23,000 is my lowest. I said why thanks for your time at that price I do not want the Bonneville. Oh, John just wait here lets see what I can do... (As I was walking out the door by the way) Alright John let me go back and talk to my boss again (3rd time) okay I can do $23,000 I said Kerry thats still 1 grand more than I want to spend! Okay he said I can do 22,499, I said sorry that is 500 more than I will spend. Walks back the his boss again and comes out with a smile alright John how about $22,000 even? I said no thats still a lil' more than I will spend, says alright, how about $21,966? I said Kerry you got yourself a deal. I quickly wrote down that number and I said I have a trade... His eyes pop out of his long head, okay a 1992 Cadillac Sedan Deville 90k he takes a look at it and says... How about 1,000 grand I say no way I can ebay it for double or closer to triple. Went inside to see the boss how about 1,500 I said naw, then he said okay I can do $1,933 so the car is an even 20,000 (plus tax etc.) I said thats fine... That is how I love to buy a car and play the game! I have been doing it since 1971 on my first Azteck Gold Bonneville Sedan! I wouldn't buy a car anyother way, three long hours later the car was mine!

I find the car I want if it is not a good deal I work 'em over till I get what I want, or I walk. I don't just buy a car that has a good price. (I hate that! I won't settle for less!)

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I am an one of those people who will come in and fight, fight, fight, fight and fight some more. Look at it this way my Bonneville SLE was $32,935.00 sticker... (Never would pay that!) The dealer had the car listed at $26,349.00 (with 3,000 miles it was a dealer exec. car) as I recall, but that was too high (but I LOVED the car and had to have an SLE because of the styling and my wife wouldn't let me get a GXP because of fuel economy. This was June 15ish 2005 keep in my mind I drove down to the dealer the DAY it was listed and I let the games begin... I made NO mention of my trade until the end, so I got him down to $25,000... I am like not good enough Kerry, he came back and counter offered me with $23,749 (I had wanted $22,000) I said no way Kerry. He went back into the boss and said $23,000 is my lowest. I said why thanks for your time at that price I do not want the Bonneville. Oh, John just wait here lets see what I can do... (As I was walking out the door by the way) Alright John let me go back and talk to my boss again (3rd time) okay I can do $23,000 I said Kerry thats still 1 grand more than I want to spend! Okay he said I can do 22,499, I said sorry that is 500 more than I will spend. Walks back the his boss again and comes out with a smile alright John how about $22,000 even? I said no thats still a lil' more than I will spend, says alright, how about $21,966? I said Kerry you got yourself a deal. I quickly wrote down that number and I said I have a trade... His eyes pop out of his long head, okay a 1992 Cadillac Sedan Deville 90k he takes a look at it and says... How about 1,000 grand I say no way I can ebay it for double or closer to triple. Went inside to see the boss how about 1,500 I said naw, then he said okay I can do $1,933 so the car is an even 20,000 (plus tax etc.) I said thats fine... That is how I love to buy a car and play the game! I have been doing it since 1971 on my first Azteck Gold Bonneville Sedan! I wouldn't buy a car anyother way, three long hours later the car was mine!

I find the car I want if it is not a good deal I work 'em over till I get what I want, or I walk. I don't just buy a car that has a good price. (I hate that! I won't settle for less!)

What a scheming, underhanded bastard you are! Very well done. :AH-HA_wink: :P

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Hell, I'd love to work in your area, gm4life, if the guys there can mark up a vehicle $4,383 and still make money off ya!

I had a guy like that recently. He had spoken to another salesperson a month or so before and came back with no appointment, nothing. No patience or respect for the time the other salesperson had spent with him, he wanted to look at the Optra right now. So, reluctantly, I spoke with him. We looked at a few cars and he started making stupid offers on the lot. This puzzled me. Where do you get these figures from, I asked. A $18,000 car (new) and you are coming up with $2,000 discounts. When I refused to play his game, he retorted that this is how he always buys cars. I retorted right back, "Well, it can't be doing too well for you, can it? A month has gone by and you still haven't bought anything!"

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I am an one of those people who will come in and fight, fight, fight, fight and fight some more. Look at it this way my Bonneville SLE was $32,935.00 sticker... (Never would pay that!) The dealer had the car listed at $26,349.00 (with 3,000 miles it was a dealer exec. car) as I recall, but that was too high (but I LOVED the car and had to have an SLE because of the styling and my wife wouldn't let me get a GXP because of fuel economy. This was June 15ish 2005 keep in my mind I drove down to the dealer the DAY it was listed and I let the games begin... I made NO mention of my trade until the end, so I got him down to $25,000... I am like not good enough Kerry, he came back and counter offered me with $23,749 (I had wanted $22,000) I said no way Kerry. He went back into the boss and said $23,000 is my lowest. I said why thanks for your time at that price I do not want the Bonneville. Oh, John just wait here lets see what I can do... (As I was walking out the door by the way) Alright John let me go back and talk to my boss again (3rd time) okay I can do $23,000 I said Kerry thats still 1 grand more than I want to spend! Okay he said I can do 22,499, I said sorry that is 500 more than I will spend. Walks back the his boss again and comes out with a smile alright John how about $22,000 even? I said no thats still a lil' more than I will spend, says alright, how about $21,966? I said Kerry you got yourself a deal. I quickly wrote down that number and I said I have a trade... His eyes pop out of his long head, okay a 1992 Cadillac Sedan Deville 90k he takes a look at it and says... How about 1,000 grand I say no way I can ebay it for double or closer to triple. Went inside to see the boss how about 1,500 I said naw, then he said okay I can do $1,933 so the car is an even 20,000 (plus tax etc.) I said thats fine... That is how I love to buy a car and play the game! I have been doing it since 1971 on my first Azteck Gold Bonneville Sedan! I wouldn't buy a car anyother way, three long hours later the car was mine!

I find the car I want if it is not a good deal I work 'em over till I get what I want, or I walk. I don't just buy a car that has a good price. (I hate that! I won't settle for less!)

That's all well and good IF the discount is there to be had--it surely was with a demo Bonneville. You obviously knew there was, and went from there.

On the other hand, there are people (i.e., relatives of mine) who go in wanting to get a newly released vehicle with a very small invoice-MSRP spread, demand a price well below what would actually be invoice, and then think the dealer is either 1) an idiot or 2) doesn't want to deal hard enough to get their business. Most people aren't this strange, but some still are. Kinda exactly like the guy CARBIZ mentioned.

It's people like the latter, and variations on that, who will have the hardest time getting used to the idea of either small ($500 - $2000 max) or no cash on the hood, regardless of a lower MSRP, features, etc.

I'm all for it, though, and hope it continues. Hopefully gone are the days when you'd walk into a Chevy dealer and get $10k+ below sticker on any new Tahoe/Suburban on the lot before any negotiations, like we and thousands of others have done (technically would be a good thing, IF the original sticker wasn't so inflated in the first place).

Edited by caddycruiser
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The funny thing about "sticker" price is that it is supposed to be there so the dealer can make money. Typically, a 6-9% spread over "cost." That was all and fine when GM had 40%+ market share and a relatively stable market that existed, say, 25 years ago. The trouble now is that dealers are cutting each other's throats as the market share slides.

It makes me chuckle when I have a customer say that it is quite reasonable for a dealer to make $600 on a $25,000 vehicle. Do they know what the mark up on food, clothing and furniture is?

It strikes me as odd that people will fight and scream to save $100 on a car deal, then walk into some fancy grocery store and pay $25 too much on a $100 order of groceries. I, on the other hand, don't gnash and grind a salesperson when I am buying a high ticket item, because I realize that over the course of that item's use, the hundred dollars won't matter much; however, I will walk out of a grocery store when I see that I am getting ripped off. At the end of a year, the groceries will add up to a lot more than the hundred or so bucks I saved on the high ticket item.

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I am an one of those people who will come in and fight, fight, fight, fight and fight some more. Look at it this way my Bonneville SLE was $32,935.00 sticker... (Never would pay that!) The dealer had the car listed at $26,349.00 (with 3,000 miles it was a dealer exec. car) as I recall, but that was too high (but I LOVED the car and had to have an SLE because of the styling and my wife wouldn't let me get a GXP because of fuel economy. This was June 15ish 2005 keep in my mind I drove down to the dealer the DAY it was listed and I let the games begin... I made NO mention of my trade until the end, so I got him down to $25,000... I am like not good enough Kerry, he came back and counter offered me with $23,749 (I had wanted $22,000) I said no way Kerry. He went back into the boss and said $23,000 is my lowest. I said why thanks for your time at that price I do not want the Bonneville. Oh, John just wait here lets see what I can do... (As I was walking out the door by the way) Alright John let me go back and talk to my boss again (3rd time) okay I can do $23,000 I said Kerry thats still 1 grand more than I want to spend! Okay he said I can do 22,499, I said sorry that is 500 more than I will spend. Walks back the his boss again and comes out with a smile alright John how about $22,000 even? I said no thats still a lil' more than I will spend, says alright, how about $21,966? I said Kerry you got yourself a deal. I quickly wrote down that number and I said I have a trade... His eyes pop out of his long head, okay a 1992 Cadillac Sedan Deville 90k he takes a look at it and says... How about 1,000 grand I say no way I can ebay it for double or closer to triple. Went inside to see the boss how about 1,500 I said naw, then he said okay I can do $1,933 so the car is an even 20,000 (plus tax etc.) I said thats fine... That is how I love to buy a car and play the game! I have been doing it since 1971 on my first Azteck Gold Bonneville Sedan! I wouldn't buy a car anyother way, three long hours later the car was mine!

I find the car I want if it is not a good deal I work 'em over till I get what I want, or I walk. I don't just buy a car that has a good price. (I hate that! I won't settle for less!)

Wow...I want you with me when I go to buy my car...:lol:

Anyways, good for GM. It's slow progress, but it's progress nonetheless.

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i get good deals on my cars always.

but it also explains that my last 4 cars were two diamantes, an aztek and a 500.

moral: if you want a deal, you likely will not get a 'hot' car, so naturally the cool cars will likely not have much incentives. At the same time, the uncool cars, you will find vehicles that are good and suit your needs well. Sometimes you need to avoid 'style' or the latest features and really focus on a vehicle's core virtues.

I need vehicles that are spacious and good on long road trips, and will fare well in a crash. For the prices I've paid for what i drive, I generally have been well suited to get the bigger car, even if its not as 'sublime' as an Accord or as hip as a Jetta.

But everyone knows how they most wisely spend their money. Most people will spend more for payments on 2 little compact cars than what I get for my money. I just have to ignore the fact I am not driving a 'cool' car.

One example I was thinking of the other day as I saw another clueless chick driving a new Honda CRV. She likely forked out 26-27k for that piece of 4 cylinder slug crap that won't get out of its own way. She likely could have had a base Pilot for same $$$ or better yet, something more useful like a Mitusbishi Endeavor, and had a six cylinder with tons more room and not a tin can, for like 5 grand less.

I guess I am a different breed though.

Edited by regfootball
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I am an one of those people who will come in and fight, fight, fight, fight and fight some more. Look at it this way my Bonneville SLE was $32,935.00 sticker... (Never would pay that!) The dealer had the car listed at $26,349.00 (with 3,000 miles it was a dealer exec. car) as I recall, but that was too high (but I LOVED the car and had to have an SLE because of the styling and my wife wouldn't let me get a GXP because of fuel economy. This was June 15ish 2005 keep in my mind I drove down to the dealer the DAY it was listed and I let the games begin... I made NO mention of my trade until the end, so I got him down to $25,000... I am like not good enough Kerry, he came back and counter offered me with $23,749 (I had wanted $22,000) I said no way Kerry. He went back into the boss and said $23,000 is my lowest. I said why thanks for your time at that price I do not want the Bonneville. Oh, John just wait here lets see what I can do... (As I was walking out the door by the way) Alright John let me go back and talk to my boss again (3rd time) okay I can do $23,000 I said Kerry thats still 1 grand more than I want to spend! Okay he said I can do 22,499, I said sorry that is 500 more than I will spend. Walks back the his boss again and comes out with a smile alright John how about $22,000 even? I said no thats still a lil' more than I will spend, says alright, how about $21,966? I said Kerry you got yourself a deal. I quickly wrote down that number and I said I have a trade... His eyes pop out of his long head, okay a 1992 Cadillac Sedan Deville 90k he takes a look at it and says... How about 1,000 grand I say no way I can ebay it for double or closer to triple. Went inside to see the boss how about 1,500 I said naw, then he said okay I can do $1,933 so the car is an even 20,000 (plus tax etc.) I said thats fine... That is how I love to buy a car and play the game! I have been doing it since 1971 on my first Azteck Gold Bonneville Sedan! I wouldn't buy a car anyother way, three long hours later the car was mine!

I find the car I want if it is not a good deal I work 'em over till I get what I want, or I walk. I don't just buy a car that has a good price. (I hate that! I won't settle for less!)

I agree I need you to deal for me too, maybe I don't know how to talk to the sales people here in Michigan or something but they usually don't give in when I am dealing with them. I have walked out of alot of dealerships pissed off because they won't budge an inch. Maybe I need to be more of an a-hole with them. In fact maybe I should lie to the sales guy that keeps calling me and just make up a number from another dealership and say flat out I'm going there and what are you going to do for me?

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......... a customer lie? NAH! Never happens. All you will do is piss off a rookie. The veterans can smell BS a mile away. Besides, there is no magic in this business, guys. For new cars, all dealers pay exactly the same thing for the same vehicle. As for used vehicles, in the case of GM dealers we all go to the same auctions and fight over the same "rentals." Our used car manager knows what dealers are paying for Malibus, Cobalts, whatever. I even laugh when we call a wholesaler to get a quote on a trade-in and the wholesaler snorts that he has already quoted on that vehicle from another dealer!

So, you can huff and puff all you want. When someone tells me they can lease an Equinox for $50 a month (why is it always $50 and not $5?) less than what I quoted them, I tell them to run right over there and lease it. The only part that galls me is that I have to pretend that the other dealer is lying to them when, in fact, I know it is the customer lying to me.

Nobody wins in this case, boys and girls.

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Looking at Chrysler, its just painful to see that amount of incentives being used. Ok I admit..it's a little funny too. Nissan and Toyota's increased incentives didn't come as a surprise as I've been seeing their commercials a lot lately, BUY BUY BUY!

As for Honda, the RL is just enjoying its existence sitting there on dealer lots and even with incentives I'm not sure I'd buy the thing. There are much better competitors out there or coming soon from other manufacturers and within Acura as most people prefer the TL over the RL.

"Our analyst are actually predicting an increase in GM market share for 2007."

When was the last time we saw that typed out about GM?

IMO, Edmunds is a good car site whether you believe it or not and one I visit daily along with C&G. It's not that they've "gone soft", it's because GM is starting to make good products and naturally, good news follows good products. Saying Edmunds is becoming soft towards GM is taking away the credit GM has earned by developing well made vehicles.

In no sense I am taking credit away from GM, edmunds has found little something about a good car from GM. Yes, the good cars of yesteryears from GM are bad compared to what we are seeing now, edmunds has certainly softened some.

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......... a customer lie? NAH! Never happens. All you will do is piss off a rookie. The veterans can smell BS a mile away. Besides, there is no magic in this business, guys. For new cars, all dealers pay exactly the same thing for the same vehicle. As for used vehicles, in the case of GM dealers we all go to the same auctions and fight over the same "rentals." Our used car manager knows what dealers are paying for Malibus, Cobalts, whatever. I even laugh when we call a wholesaler to get a quote on a trade-in and the wholesaler snorts that he has already quoted on that vehicle from another dealer!

So, you can huff and puff all you want. When someone tells me they can lease an Equinox for $50 a month (why is it always $50 and not $5?) less than what I quoted them, I tell them to run right over there and lease it. The only part that galls me is that I have to pretend that the other dealer is lying to them when, in fact, I know it is the customer lying to me.

Nobody wins in this case, boys and girls.

not after volume bonus incentives are factored in. Mega dealers 'buy' the cars for less in the end, because of the kickbacks they will get from selling more cars....after the fact. even if the invoice is the same. I've been told these extra kickbacks for volume, beyond the normal holdbacks, can be 1000 bucks or more per vehicle. This gives them a real competitive advantage for long term market share.

re: leases, most of the time lease structures will end up similar between dealers. However, when I was shopping 500's and quests for leases about a year or so ago, I actually was quoted some widely variable lease payment prices. When shopping I presented the same parameters to every dealer with exact specs on the model i was looking for. Perhaps the aggressive dealers made up the difference with reduced cap cost pricing and financing rates and fees. There in fact was a spread of 50-60 bucks on the quest vans I looked at and probably about the same spread a month on 500's. An aggressive dealer will play with the line items they can to try to get your lease business if they are hungry. It used to be that all cars leased at MSRP. No any more. And I am ok with that.

Edited by regfootball
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