Diehard GrandPrix Fan

Chinese may not come to US afterall, well.... Not yet.

65 posts in this topic

According to this new article(dated yesterday), Chery, the Chinese Automaker, seems to have shifted their goal from exporting their cars to the US to Southeast Asia instead. I guess they didn't want to improve their cars to meet US regulations and target the less important market first. That, and other Chery news can be found here:

http://www.chinacartimes.com/category/chery-automobile/

Sure, it's only talking about Cheris, but we may see other Chinese brand making it to the US. You never know.

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well, the toy debacle has spooked so many people here, 'baby just licked thomas the train and keeled over dead, why not go driving in a CHinese car and die too!'

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Perhaps whenever the Chinese makers do come here, it will involve Wal-Mart.... they will probably set up an arrangement to sell Chinese cars under one of their store brands (I can see it now--- Puritan subcompact sedans, Great Value SUVs, and Sam' Choice pickups). Or how about Costco Kirkland brand Chinese cars?

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It's really not a case of if, but when ... and we're likely to see a very fast learning curve indeed. Anyone who underestimates the Chinese does so at their peril.

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It's really not a case of if, but when ... and we're likely to see a very fast learning curve indeed. Anyone who underestimates the Chinese does so at their peril.

Agreed...it took the Koreans roughly 20 years to reach the Japanese standard in the US, China will probably be able to do it in 10 or less...

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Who is complaining? I know I'm not.

No complaints here ... I welcome them. More competition only ups the ante and provides better quality cars for everyone.

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Agreed...it took the Koreans roughly 20 years to reach the Japanese standard in the US, China will probably be able to do it in 10 or less...

... especially when there are so many foreign joint-venture factories already in China. When you consider how the Chinese have a 70% domestic parts content requirement to avoid tariffs on domestic-made vehicles, it's no surprise to see Accord (BYD F6) and Corolla (F3) clones popping up everywhere.

With the US auto market slowing down, and the Chinese market booming, they might as well concentrate at home...

http://www.chinacartimes.com/2008/03/27/saic-profit-up-242/

SAIC top brass are probably kicking themselves that they didnt stick a bid in for Landrover and Jaguar, after a record breaking 2007 they can easily afford it!

In 2007 SAIC sold 1.69 million vehicles, which translates into a 25.8% year on year increase on 2006. Profit in RMB was 4.63 billion RMB. Of the 1.69 million vehicles sold, 1.13 million were automobiles.

Sales with its joint venture partners worked out as follows: GM sold 508,380 vehicles, and VW 456,424. SAIC’s minivan and truck making ventures, SAIC-GM-Wuling and SAIC-Iveco Hongyan each sold 520,000 and 24,000 vehicles. Some more good news for SAIC bosses are that sales at its Korean owned manufacturer, Ssangyong, are up 13%. Ssangyong sold 136,000 vehicles in 07, a respectable figure for essentially a niche market player.

SAIC is planning to push the goal posts even further in 2008, with them planning to sell 1.9 million vehicles. Can they meet those targets? Possibly, the Chinese Car Industry shows no signs of slowing just yet.

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No complaints here ... I welcome them. More competition only ups the ante and provides better quality cars for everyone.

I think he meant "who's complaining that they are NOT coming?".

I'm not, competition is all well and good but 1.) There's plenty of it already 2.) We have to put up with enough cheap Chinese crap. 3.) You can bet the first round of Chinese vehicles that do eventually make it hear will be deathtraps with more quality problems than the worst 80's Domestic or the worst Jaguar.

Don't forget the lead in the paint.

Edited by Dodgefan
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Don't forget the lead in the paint.

stop licking your car and i think THAT problem will be solved :AH-HA_wink:

:smilewide:

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stop licking your car and i think THAT problem will be solved :AH-HA_wink:

:smilewide:

Hey at least I'm not trying to fondle the dash! :P

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I agree with Dodgefan: competition improves overall quality (in theory at least) when the new competition IS competitive... bringing a new LCD into the field will not improve anything above it. When a chinese circular saw guard falls off and the blade rips open the operator's leg, what, exactly is DeWalt or Mikita going to change on their saw, which does not have that problem and never did?

In this day & age, especially with the broad, reaching assumption the chinese are able to be competitive globally, there is no excuse for the blatant negligence & intentional subterfugue going on in today's chinese design & manufacturing. It's amazing what people are willing to consider: perhaps the idea of putting human sewage in cooking lard simply never occurred to anyone over there as a bad idea, you know, because they're 'still coming out of their 3rd World coccoon' (unless, of course, you know... it was intentional).

>>"Anyone who underestimates the Chinese does so at their peril."<<

What about those who judge chinese manufacturing from factual instances ??

The Consumer Product Safety Commission recalled 447 products sold in the U.S. in 2007, and 298 were from good ol' China. That's 67%. In 2006, china-made goods were recalled 221 times, or 47% of all recalls- so they're getting better at being the worst. Lead poisoning was targeted in the U.S. in the 1970s.... and here is china reintroducing lethal amounts in children's toys almost 40 years later. A simple 'teething mistake' (no pun intended)?

You can chose to believe that if you like, but it seems clear that simply encountering chinese goods is "done at one's peril".

>>"it took the Koreans roughly 20 years to reach the Japanese standard in the US, China will probably be able to do it in 10 or less..."<<

YOU go buy their stuff, you're welcome to it. I'm already done with everything from there.

This weekend I twisted three (chinese) 5/16th lag bolts in half screwing them into predrilled fast-growth pine. I am now forced to save all hardware older than roughly 20 yrs old, so I can have dependable supplies on hand, becasue most all of what's commonly available is now made in china.

But don't miss it --> This new competitor to the fastener market did NOT improve the quality of other manufacturers, it simply undercut their marketshare with slave-labor manufacturing costs and drove the quality makers out of general circulation (or business!) altogether.

In other words, chinese product LOWERED the segment's quality. Guess that pretty much f**ks the ol' textbook theory, don't it?

So yeah, let's bring the world's worst here so some more domestic manufacturers can shutter their factories... and we can have some more space for important things.... like more coffee houses & bookstores !!!!!!!!!

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I agree with Dodgefan: competition improves overall quality (in theory at least) when the new competition IS competitive... bringing a new LCD into the field will not improve anything above it. When a chinese circular saw guard falls off and the blade rips open the operator's leg, what, exactly is DeWalt or Mikita going to change on their saw, which does not have that problem and never did?

In this day & age, especially with the broad, reaching assumption the chinese are able to be competitive globally, there is no excuse for the blatant negligence & intentional subterfugue going on in today's chinese design & manufacturing. It's amazing what people are willing to consider: perhaps the idea of putting human sewage in cooking lard simply never occurred to anyone over there as a bad idea, you know, because they're 'still coming out of their 3rd World coccoon' (unless, of course, you know... it was intentional).

>>"Anyone who underestimates the Chinese does so at their peril."<<

What about those who judge chinese manufacturing from factual instances ??

The Consumer Product Safety Commission recalled 447 products sold in the U.S. in 2007, and 298 were from good ol' China. That's 67%. In 2006, china-made goods were recalled 221 times, or 47% of all recalls- so they're getting better at being the worst. Lead poisoning was targeted in the U.S. in the 1970s.... and here is china reintroducing lethal amounts in children's toys almost 40 years later. A simple 'teething mistake' (no pun intended)?

You can chose to believe that if you like, but it seems clear that simply encountering chinese goods is "done at one's peril".

>>"it took the Koreans roughly 20 years to reach the Japanese standard in the US, China will probably be able to do it in 10 or less..."<<

YOU go buy their stuff, you're welcome to it. I'm already done with everything from there.

This weekend I twisted three (chinese) 5/16th lag bolts in half screwing them into predrilled fast-growth pine. I am now forced to save all hardware older than roughly 20 yrs old, so I can have dependable supplies on hand, because most all of what's commonly available (retail) is now made in china.

But don't miss it --> This new competitor to the fastener market did NOT improve the quality of other manufacturers, it simply undercut their marketshare with slave-labor manufacturing costs and drove the quality makers out of general circulation (or business!) altogether.

In other words, chinese product LOWERED the segment's quality. Guess that pretty much f**ks the ol' textbook theory, don't it?

So yeah, let's bring the world's worst here so some more domestic manufacturers can shutter their factories... and we can have some more space for important things.... like more coffee houses & bookstores !!!!!!!!!

The Chinese cost advantage, and their technical ability, is over-rated, but there is immense pressure on suppliers to come in with the lowest possible quote, so as you go further down the food chain, the pressure and temptation to cut corners creates situations like these. Many enterprises are on the brink of going completely pear-shaped, operating for years with unsustainable losses. In many cases Chinese companies may have missed their opportunity—the cost of shipping products long distances is about to skyrocket—if you haven't already eliminated local competition in export markets, you will no longer be able to compete with them.

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The Chinese cost advantage, and their technical ability, is over-rated, but there is immense pressure on suppliers to come in with the lowest possible quote, so as you go further down the food chain, the pressure and temptation to cut corners creates situations like these. Many enterprises are on the brink of going completely pear-shaped, operating for years with unsustainable losses. In many cases Chinese companies may have missed their opportunity—the cost of shipping products long distances is about to skyrocket—if you haven't already eliminated local competition in export markets, you will no longer be able to compete with them.

Unfortunately, what is the choice for the consumer? It seems everything (consumer products) sold at Wal-Mart, Ace, Home Depot, etc is made in China and manufacturing in the US is by and large dead or dying. I don't see any way of undoing the damage that has been done over the last 3 or so decades...

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Unfortunately, what is the choice for the consumer? It seems everything (consumer products) sold at Wal-Mart, Ace, Home Depot, etc is made in China and manufacturing in the US is by and large dead or dying. I don't see any way of undoing the damage that has been done over the last 3 or so decades...

Exactly. I see calls for a growing backlash against Chinese imported products, but the scary truth is that many products are simply not made here any more. I searched for over a month to replace my 30 year old Airtemp window a/c unit for a North American made one, and simply could not do it. I had a Chinese made blender stop working after 3 years (replaced my mother's 35 year old blender), an RCA Cd clock radio (made in China) break down after 2 years and the switch on my Chinese made electric frying pan broke after 6 months (it still works, so far.) I don't care if the products are half the price of the ones they replaced: they are no bargain if they have to be replaced every 3-5 years. These type of appliances should last decades.

But wait - there is hope. As of 2006, China surpassed the good ol' USA as the #1 emitter of carbon in the world. As of today, China emits 9% more carbon than the U.S. They have more coal-fired power plants than the U.S., UK and India combined. In fact, they have plans of building another 560 coal-fired plants by 2012. If only $45 a tonne of carbon dioxide (about the going rate in Europe right now) is levied against China, that would raise $55 billion from Chinese exports to the U.S. alone - equivalent to a 17% tarrif.

Suddenly, I am seeing this whole carbon trading scheme in a new light. Could the greenies inadvertantly be scheming with the politicos to grab back our manufacturing plants? Think about it: coupled with triple digit oil prices (that greatly add to the cost of shipping across the Pacific) and suddenly cheap labour no longer is the over-riding factor in off-shoring factories. Carbon trading would be the over-riding factor. The Chinese have absolutely no interest in cutting emissions or worrying about such trivial things like fish hatcheries. They are decades behind us in those areas.

I am looking at KYOTO and other proposals in a new light. Maybe there is hope after all.

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The Chinese are already here.

The 'nox & Torrent have had Chinese engines for years...what are the failure rates for those items? IIRC, they're fine.

All this fear mongering and anger over some products that weren't being supervised and tested by American Companies that should know better--

The Chinese are already part of your lives--just glance around your home--YOU let them in! Cars are just the next step. The good news is that this capitalist path they're taking will mean, eventually, 1 Billion more free peoples--so, all in all, it'll probably be just fine.

US will invent more stuff--or maybe get off of foreign energy, finally--and we'll all be fine.

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>>"Anyone who underestimates the Chinese does so at their peril."<<

What about those who judge chinese manufacturing from factual instances ??

The Consumer Product Safety Commission recalled 447 products sold in the U.S. in 2007, and 298 were from good ol' China. That's 67%. In 2006, china-made goods were recalled 221 times, or 47% of all recalls- so they're getting better at being the worst. Lead poisoning was targeted in the U.S. in the 1970s.... and here is china reintroducing lethal amounts in children's toys almost 40 years later. A simple 'teething mistake' (no pun intended)?

You can chose to believe that if you like, but it seems clear that simply encountering chinese goods is "done at one's peril".

You have your head in the sand, and I can understand why. The Japanese' learning curve took thirty years to incur some real damage to the US car industry. The Koreans took some twenty-five years to inflict further damage. The Chinese - with the sheer variety of car manufacturers and qickly improving products such as the latest Geely GT and Roewe 550 could see a similar learning curve of just a decade, and which has the ability to inflict terminal damage. You're scared to death.

When we look at facts, a booming economy, a massive new road infrastructure, and partnerships with numerous western companies will provide the Chinese with teething troubles the likes of which you've listed, but that's a drop in the ocean in the overall scheme of things ... ultimately they have a very strong foundation and the potential to change the entire face of the global automotive industry.

Edited by aatbloke
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The Chinese are already here.

The 'nox & Torrent have had Chinese engines for years...what are the failure rates for those items? IIRC, they're fine.

All this fear mongering and anger over some products that weren't being supervised and tested by American Companies that should know better--

The Chinese are already part of your lives--just glance around your home--YOU let them in! Cars are just the next step. The good news is that this capitalist path they're taking will mean, eventually, 1 Billion more free peoples--so, all in all, it'll probably be just fine.

US will invent more stuff--or maybe get off of foreign energy, finally--and we'll all be fine.

Wow!

Even when you are optimistic, we disagree. :lol:

Seriously though, I see Chinese cars as having a huge uphill battle to even gain a foothold here. China's rep is bad and getting worse all of the time for just about everything they make and ship here - they suffer from a (well-deserved) perception as purveyors of low-quality products to a degree equal to Japan's (less well-deserved) positive perception.

Also, the North American automobile market is already way too crowded as it is. The Chinese will have to wait for a better opportunity to enter it. The exception could be products with American, Japanese, or European names which are built under strict supervision by those foreign companies using cheap Chinese labor. The foreign companies know how to produce cars which can survive in the NA market, The Chinese do not.

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Keep 'em out. The last thing this country needs are more producuts that increase our trade deficit to China.

Though, in honesty, I don't know a single person who would even want a Chinese car...at least right now. The same was said about the Japanese and Koreans.

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Keep 'em out. The last thing this country needs are more producuts that increase our trade deficit to China.

Though, in honesty, I don't know a single person who would even want a Chinese car...at least right now. The same was said about the Japanese and Koreans.

When they come, they probably will use the same angle that Hyundai did when they first came to the US...very cheap, basic cars for those that can't afford a new car. Indian cars are coming also (Mahindra trucks and SUVs first).

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When they come, they probably will use the same angle that Hyundai did when they first came to the US...very cheap, basic cars for those that can't afford a new car. Indian cars are coming also (Mahindra trucks and SUVs first).

And I believe they will succeed.

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I'd rather buy a used Domestic, Japanese, or European car than a new Chinese POS.

Edited by Dodgefan
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I'd rather buy a used Domestic, Japanese, or European car than a new Chinese POS.

Yes, but there are a lot of people out there that would rather have a new car with a warranty than a used car..

Edited by moltar
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When a chinese circular saw guard falls off and the blade rips open the operator's leg

OK, that made me feel good about life.

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It's very sad how little is Made in USA these days. One of the last product lines that still are made in America are Craftmans tools and products. It's long been their calling card. A few weeks ago however, I discovered that their less expensive toolboxes (which were still more expensive than say, Black ad Decker) are now made in Mexico. It's very sad.

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