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I wonder if this would be, what would you, if any consider purachsing in 2 years? Since most of us probably can't actually buy more than 1 car at a time, but it would be good to see what brand was the most likely to be purchased.

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Try to get your votes in by the evening of 7/6. We intend to compile the results and put them on the front page for GM to see in plain sight.

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Yeah, this was a great idea! I need to go through them all and answer, both for me and the rest of the household.

Would be great feedback for GM...at least from those who tend to be GM loyalists, that is.

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Done.

There wasn't a spot to list my new import purchases since 1998:

- 1999 Mazda Miata 10th Anniversary Edition (6MT)

- 2001 Nissan Pathfinder SE (5MT)

- 2005 BMW 330i ZHP (6MT) -- from the nice people at BMW Individual and the letter M

oh and my 2004 Harley Fatboy fuelie

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Done.

There wasn't a spot to list my new import purchases since 1998:

- 1999 Mazda Miata 10th Anniversary Edition (6MT)

- 2001 Nissan Pathfinder SE (5MT)

- 2005 BMW 330i ZHP (6MT) -- from the nice people at BMW Individual and the letter M

oh and my 2004 Harley Fatboy fuelie

Well, hence why they were GM brand specific. We could start a whole other thing about our non-GM purchases and why...maybe that's next.

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You know it will be looked at by GM as just a GM Enthuiast site poll and will be regarded as such. Put this poll on Southern Living Magazine's website, HGTV.com, Foodnetwork.com, HomeDepot.com or even Walmart.com and I think you would have GM's undivided attention.

Just a thought!

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
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You know it will be looked at by GM as just a GM Enthuiast site poll and will be regarded as such. Put this poll on Southern Living Magazine's website, HGTV.com, Foodnetwork.com, HomeDepot.com or even Walmart.com and I think you would have GM's undivided attention.

Just a thought!

That's part of the problem.

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Sorry but I think any numbers from this poll will be extremely underwhelming. And so, when you tally the results, if 5 people vote for (or, if no one votes for).... pick one... GMC, what will that signify?

It's nice that you're trying to give a picture of the enthusiasm there may be for GM brands, but I don't think that this is the way to do it.

Better to have a writing project: "In 25 Words Or Less" what does [ your favorite GM brand ] mean to you? That way, it's not pitting the brands against each other to score a higher number.

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Sorry but I think any numbers from this poll will be extremely underwhelming. And so, when you tally the results, if 5 people vote for (or, if no one votes for).... pick one... GMC, what will that signify?

It's nice that you're trying to give a picture of the enthusiasm there may be for GM brands, but I don't think that this is the way to do it.

Better to have a writing project: "In 25 Words Or Less" what does [ your favorite GM brand ] mean to you? That way, it's not pitting the brands against each other to score a higher number.

You are reading way too much into this.

I am most interested in where C&G stands.

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There's already a verifiable method: see how many people have posted to the various threads under each of the brands. That will show interest on C&G.

I'm far more interested in actual purchases.

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Understood, but those numbers will be so small. In the course of two years, how many new cars can anybody buy?

I like Buick (duh...) but since 1998, they've offered some of the worst choices, like that year when all that they had were 4 similar four-door cars (Century, Regal, LeSabre, Park Avenue).

Edited by wildcat
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One of your questions was, if I recall correctly, do you intend to purchase a ___ in the next two years. If I like the Volt, for instance, that should be out in just over two years. So I guess I'd write 0. (Just a hypothetical.)

Now I'm bored with this.

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One of your questions was, if I recall correctly, do you intend to purchase a ___ in the next two years. If I like the Volt, for instance, that should be out in just over two years. So I guess I'd write 0. (Just a hypothetical.)

Now I'm bored with this.

Sorry that you're bored, I'm rather enjoying this myself.

The question was phrased as the purchase being made within the "next two model years" to avoid both ancient history and pie in the sky maybe someday responses. I'm looking to see just how serious we all are about this. And how serious we have been recently.

Why don't we just wait for the results and how they are presented before throwing the wet blanket?

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You know it will be looked at by GM as just a GM Enthuiast site poll and will be regarded as such. Put this poll on Southern Living Magazine's website, HGTV.com, Foodnetwork.com, HomeDepot.com or even Walmart.com and I think you would have GM's undivided attention.

Just a thought!

That's part of the problem.

GM's problem is that they dont make all of their decisions based on a small segment of the population that happens to gather in a small corner of the internet? All you're proposing, Camino, is a focus group, just a focus group that comes up with what you want instead of what GM's focus groups have been coming up with the last 20-30 years.

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GM's problem is that they dont make all of their decisions based on a small segment of the population that happens to gather in a small corner of the internet? All you're proposing, Camino, is a focus group, just a focus group that comes up with what you want instead of what GM's focus groups have been coming up with the last 20-30 years.

Dead wrong.

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before throwing the wet blanket?

The wet blanket may be on this website, but others have thrown it more frequently and seriously than me. Look around. For example, why doesn't somebody even care enough on this website to keep things updated? Look at the description shown for the Buick forum. It still says "trucks" and "Beyond Precision." Under GMC trucks, it still reads 2007! C'mon, with the Internet, you can update easily and instantly.

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The wet blanket may be on this website, but others have thrown it more frequently and seriously than me. Look around. For example, why doesn't somebody even care enough on this website to keep things updated? Look at the description shown for the Buick forum. It still says "trucks" and "Beyond Precision." Under GMC trucks, it still reads 2007! C'mon, with the Internet, you can update easily and instantly.

You can feel that way if you like.

What I don't understand is the venom directed at what most here seem to be enjoying. I had an idea that was a new approach in which we could all participate. Most seem to be having fun with it.

So shoot me. :blink:

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Truly, I'm not shooting you and have nothing against you or your poll.

Truly, I'm glad that you and others are enjoying it.

Even though I personally don't understand it or see much purpose in it, which means nothing to anyone except me.

I'll take it to be my problem.

I'm all wound up because everywhere I read GM is on the verge of burning through all its cash, may be cutting some

brand(s), is in poor shape this-or-that, etc. etc. I have the problem that I can't enjoy the poll, ignoring reality that

some of these brands supposedly will soon be history. All that frustration boiled over. I'm frustrated because there

doesn't seem to be anything we can do but sit on the sidelines while the boardroom decides which brand(s) to axe.

I don't want to vote in that poll, because it isn't quite so cut and dry. For Buick fans such as myself, GM has cut the

brand down to 3 models but has yet to be able to offer even 3 competitive or class-leading vehicles at the same time.

No, I haven't bought a new Buick after 1998 because they had such mediocre offerings. And there was always the

"wait until ___" for the coming model! Likewise, all this talk of combining Buick NA with Buick China has yet to mean much.

We can't even seem to agree whether the new Epsilon II will be called Invicta or LaCrosse. (And if GM is so dumb to

keep the LaCrosse name... I have yet to see anyone, anywhere ask that the LaCrosse name be kept...)

Perhaps what I wrote will make some sense. If not, so be it.

Sorry, Camino LS6, I didn't mean to cause any trouble here.

Edited by wildcat
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Truly, I'm not shooting you and have nothing against you or your poll.

Truly, I'm glad that you and others are enjoying it.

Even though I personally don't understand it or see much purpose in it, which means nothing to anyone except me.

I'll take it to be my problem.

I'm all wound up because everywhere I read GM is on the verge of burning through all its cash, may be cutting some

brand(s), is in poor shape this-or-that, etc. etc. I have the problem that I can't enjoy the poll, ignoring reality that

some of these brands supposedly will soon be history. All that frustration boiled over. I'm frustrated because there

doesn't seem to be anything we can do but sit on the sidelines while the boardroom decides which brand(s) to axe.

I don't want to vote in that poll, because it isn't quite so cut and dry. For Buick fans such as myself, GM has cut the

brand down to 3 models but has yet to be able to offer even 3 competitive or class-leading vehicles at the same time.

No, I haven't bought a new Buick after 1998 because they had such mediocre offerings. And there was always the

"wait until ___" for the coming model! Likewise, all this talk of combining Buick NA with Buick China has yet to mean much.

We can't even seem to agree whether the new Epsilon II will be called Invicta or LaCrosse. (And if GM is so dumb to

keep the LaCrosse name... I have yet to see anyone, anywhere ask that the LaCrosse name be kept...)

Perhaps what I wrote will make some sense. If not, so be it.

Sorry, Camino LS6, I didn't mean to cause any trouble here.

No problem, now I understand.

I actually hoped to give voice to all of us that are feeling just like you are about a given brand with this poll.

I really do want to see where we (as members of C&G) stand. I want to see where and how we are putting our money where our mouths are.

Take the poll.

Make a comment.

You aren't the only Buick fan around these parts. :AH-HA_wink:

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Oh I wasn't complaining, I just wanted to be on record as bringing order to chaos! :smilewide:

Of course, you meant to say "bringing chaos to order." :P

Finished.

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  • 2 weeks later...

We're taking all that into account now as we compile the results. We do intend to put up final tallies and post the results on the front page for all eyes (especially GM's) to see.

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Its still pointless, because, in the end, its still a captive audience, the membership of a GM fansite. Do you think you're going to get an accurate look at any brand's future sales? This sample is not representative of the general public. Its like asking 5000 people in Utah who they're going to vote for in the presidential election, sure its a big sample, but not an overly representative one.

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Its still pointless, because, in the end, its still a captive audience, the membership of a GM fansite. Do you think you're going to get an accurate look at any brand's future sales? This sample is not representative of the general public. Its like asking 5000 people in Utah who they're going to vote for in the presidential election, sure its a big sample, but not an overly representative one.

How many times do I have to explain that that is not the point? :rolleyes:

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Take them all so we can get a real picture of C&G's stance on each at a personal purchase level.

Try to get your votes in by the evening of 7/6. We intend to compile the results and put them on the front page for GM to see in plain sight.

So you're gathering information on the GM purchase histories of C&Gers, along with what the *may* purchase within the next 2 years. Seems to me you could have done that without the polls by searching the "Member Rides" forum and all the threads about upcoming GM models, since those threads always include the cliche, "I'll be first in line" types.

Then, according to another admin, you want to put the results on the front page for GM to see. Why? They're going to look at it and think, "Wow, people on a GM fansite buy GMs and plan on doing so in the future! Thats a real shock! Whats next? Will Allpar discover that their posters buy Dodges?"

If you really wanted a feel for C&G, you would have included polls for non-GM brands, and follow up by asking why they chose that vehicle over a GM. While you're at it, ask the GM buyers why they chose their car over the competition. Was it "blind loyalty" (i.e. I'll buy GM without considering anything else) or legitimately liking the GM over the competition, or was it the money aspect (i.e. a $21,000 dollar midsizer discounted to $14,000)?

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Whatever. :rolleyes:

You are reading all sorts of things into this that aren't there. If you go back and read this thread, I think I made my intentions quite clear.

Several times.

And the members had fun doing it, so what's the problem?

Sheesh!

I have no interest in the rest of what you posted ( other makes etc.).

I just want to know:

1. How many new GM cars of each brand the respondents have purchased.

2. How many respondents intend to purchase from a given brand in the next two years.

That's it!

Nothing more.

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I don't know why you've got your panties in a bunch, Satty. Maybe it's all that time you spend in that giant metal cockroach of yours :AH-HA_wink:

Obligatory Prius dig aside, my take on the census is that, with the rumors flying around that GM is going to axe several brands soon, that it was time to find out where C&G members stood on each brand, not just in terms of loyalty, but whether or not they plan to purchase a vehicle from that brand. Hopefully we get to show that killing a brand will alienate not just enthusiasts, but potential customers who will more than likely walk away from GM rather than be shoehorned into a Chevy, Caddy, or Saturn.

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That still goes back to my earlier question about buyer types. Are the people who plan to buy a new car in the next 2 years the "blind loyalist" types or the type who consider all options and go with what best suits their needs? Blind loyalists would be easier to keep around because, after all the grumbling, GM would say, "Sorry you cant have a G8, but we have a nice Impala" or whatever the situation turns into and they will realign their blind loyalty.

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I think to try to carry out what you're saying, we'd have to post this same census on BON, Allpar, Toyota Nation, TOV, Edmunds, C&D, etc. Even if everyone sampled is a "blind GM loyalist", that doesn't matter in the context of the census. Whether or not a member would consider another brand is immaterial, unless it can be inferred from the data we took shows that an alteration to GM's brand structure is a likely cause of him defecting, and at that point it doesn't even matter what brand he ends up choosing. Let's use your example, and Camino as our test case. While I probably don't need to go over what he said in the census because anyone who knows him can figure it out, the data should show that if GM were to tell him, "Sorry but we don't sell the G8 anymore. How about a nice Impala?", it would likely lose him as a customer.

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You should have added what vehicles and the ratio of said models people wanted to buy.

Yes.

But it was enough work as it is. :AH-HA_wink:

For Pontiac, the Solstice and the G8 were most often mentioned.

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And what about buyers like me, who had 12 new Pontiacs in 10 years and will not even buy one now, surely that evens out the playing field, my purchasing power should equal about 6 of a normal buyer. It makes me think your numbers are skewed.

You have ulterior motives.

The numbers are right - you are one of the nine who won't consider Pontiac out of 52 members here.

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And you don't? :AH-HA_wink: Post your numbers, it won't change one darn thing.

The link to the numbers is above.

As for changing things, I don't expect any amount of reason or logic could affect certain folks in the midst of a power grab.

I do intend for you to know how we all feel about it though.

And I promise that I won't enjoy getting to say "I told you so" in a few years.

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As for changing things, I don't expect any amount of reason or logic could affect certain folks in the midst of a power grab.

The power was fought for, not grabbed, no Jedi Mind Tricks were used to get said power, what you're experiencing now is the consolidation and execution of that power.

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No matter how the power is obtained, the results of it being used are what matters. I think our little census might give a small indication of the costs of making product mistakes could be. In their self-assured zeal to "re-make " GM, the new regime seems to me to be poised for a rude awakening.

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