The domestics aren't alone

[Camino LS6]

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=650271

[A Horse With No Name]

The whole world economy may go boom soon...but glad to see others feel the pain. Maybe that will change some peoples mind on a bailout.

Chris

[regfootball]

i think all i really want is for people to acknowledge that its not just the domestics who are having problems selling cars.

let's see, toyota, saved by 0

nissan 0.9%

bmw- 0.9%

lexus, i think they have some specials

EVERYONE is hurting. but yet, they make it sound like the domestics are the culprits.

[A Horse With No Name]

It's a shrinking market, and unless the market improves in the next year or two we are going to loose some players, both import and domestic.

Chris

[Satty]

The CEOs of Nissan, Honda, Toyota and BMW aren't taking private jets to ask Congress for billions in bailout money. Are they asking for a bailout from their governments? I dont know, but they're not trying to get your tax dollars like the domestics are, thats why the domestics are the story.

[A Horse With No Name]

BMW for one has a much smaller market to support here in the US. Most of their business is overseas.

Chris

[deftonesfan867]

The CEOs of Nissan, Honda, Toyota and BMW aren't taking private jets to ask Congress for billions in bailout money. Are they asking for a bailout from their governments? I dont know, but they're not trying to get your tax dollars like the domestics are, thats why the domestics are the story.

Satty, there government already aids them and will adjust the home market for them accordingly.

[Dragon]

The CEOs of Nissan, Honda, Toyota and BMW aren't taking private jets to ask Congress for billions in bailout money. Are they asking for a bailout from their governments? I dont know, but they're not trying to get your tax dollars like the domestics are, thats why the domestics are the story.

if their suppliers went under cause GM went under, you'd be damned sure they'd come crawling, asking for help

[Camino LS6]

if their suppliers went under cause GM went under, you'd be damned sure they'd come crawling, asking for help

They have always been helped by their governments (and ours as well).

[regfootball]

The CEOs of Nissan, Honda, Toyota and BMW aren't taking private jets to ask Congress for billions in bailout money. Are they asking for a bailout from their governments? I dont know, but they're not trying to get your tax dollars like the domestics are, thats why the domestics are the story.

cut the crap with the private jet BS.

major companies run private jets to reduce travel time and increase efficiency of its highest paid employees to improve their productivity.

the senators and journalists casting stones at this, check their records, they fly private too. that was a big publicity ploy.

love your tunnel vision. research the issue a little why don't ya.

Edited November 20, 2008 by regfootball

[Satty]

You're missing my point, not one of the execs saif in front of Congress (Nardelli said it afterwards, I believe) that they would pull a Lee Iacocca and cut their salary to $1. If the execs aren't willing to make sacrifices for the greater good of the company, why should we allow them to be in charge when they get taxpayer money?

[saturnd00d]

Satty, I agree with you there. If they aren't willing to make sacrifices with their own money, why should we trust them with ours?

[CARBIZ]

Satty, I agree with you there. If they aren't willing to make sacrifices with their own money, why should we trust them with ours?

Don't kid yourselves - Wagoner owns a ton of GM stock, and it wasn't bought at $3, either.

Look, that is the greater issue with what is wrong with capitalism and globalism: nobody owns the company, so why should they give $h!? Any one of these CEOs can undoubtedly retire with the money they already have, so other than it looking bad on a resume, do they personally, truly give a $h! if GM, Ford or Chrysler go down?

Henry Ford would have cared. Walter Chrysler would have cared. These modern day CEOs are not the real owners of the company. No one person 'owns' GM or Ford these days.

I understand the symbolism, but would YOU work 60 hour weeks (which I am sure all 3 are these days), go without sleep and endure the stress for FREE? Especially for Mulally: he was hired to clean up the mess and he should be compensated, IMO.

IMO, 60% of what these three companies are going through AT THIS VERY MOMENT has nothing to do with any fault of the individual companies. Eating crow (as they did in front of Washington yesterday) and putting up with the total BS at the hearings must have been personally agonizing for these gentlemen. The greater concern here should be is what happens if one of them has a heart attack and dies from the stress, or just resigns and walks away from the mess.

What kind of a signal would that send?

[gm4life]

I like Rick alot and look at what he has done at his time at GM. He has done alot of smart things, they need to file chapter 11 kick the Unions out the door and then hire them back WITH FAIR WAGES, then I would give the 25 billion to use wisely. I know everyone is hurting badly.

[A Horse With No Name]

Don't kid yourselves - Wagoner owns a ton of GM stock, and it wasn't bought at $3, either.

Look, that is the greater issue with what is wrong with capitalism and globalism: nobody owns the company, so why should they give $h!? Any one of these CEOs can undoubtedly retire with the money they already have, so other than it looking bad on a resume, do they personally, truly give a $h! if GM, Ford or Chrysler go down?

Henry Ford would have cared. Walter Chrysler would have cared. These modern day CEOs are not the real owners of the company. No one person 'owns' GM or Ford these days.

I understand the symbolism, but would YOU work 60 hour weeks (which I am sure all 3 are these days), go without sleep and endure the stress for FREE? Especially for Mulally: he was hired to clean up the mess and he should be compensated, IMO.

IMO, 60% of what these three companies are going through AT THIS VERY MOMENT has nothing to do with any fault of the individual companies. Eating crow (as they did in front of Washington yesterday) and putting up with the total BS at the hearings must have been personally agonizing for these gentlemen. The greater concern here should be is what happens if one of them has a heart attack and dies from the stress, or just resigns and walks away from the mess.

What kind of a signal would that send?

Exactly. They work and deserve to be compensated, just like the guys on the line building the cars.

I think the biggest issue is jealousy. These gentlemen have the chops to run a multibillion dollar company and I think the rest of us are jealous of their ability and their pay.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I like Rick alot and look at what he has done at his time at GM. He has done alot of smart things, they need to file chapter 11 kick the Unions out the door and then hire them back WITH FAIR WAGES, then I would give the 25 billion to use wisely. I know everyone is hurting badly.

But fair wages shouldn't be $12 an hour and a temporary contract. If we want good cars we need good people. We've let eleventy billion good people go from GM, from line guys to engeneers to sylists to management.

We need to keep what we have left.

Chris

[gm4life]

I said fair pay and no that isn't $12.00 but it isn't $70.00 an hour either.

[balthazar]

GM workers start @ $26 and average $39. Line workers are not paid $70/hr - that's GM's 'labor cost', which includes pension & healthcare costs.

>>"Any one of these CEOs can undoubtedly retire with the money they already have, so other than it looking bad on a resume, do they personally, truly give a &#036;h&#33; if GM, Ford or Chrysler go down? Henry Ford would have cared. Walter Chrysler would have cared. These modern day CEOs are not the real owners of the company. No one person 'owns' GM or Ford these days."<<

That was not solely because Henry & Walter owned the companies, but primairily because they were men cut from a different cloth than men are today. Strong senses of personal & professional pride, and a working moral compass did much to guide their actions & policies, and these characteristics are ususally found in stories of success. Do Rick & Alan have these characteristics?- I don't know; we don't get a very clear picture of them from 'down here', do we?

[Camino LS6]

GM workers start @ $26 and average $39. Line workers are not paid $70/hr - that's GM's 'labor cost', which includes pension & healthcare costs.

>>"Any one of these CEOs can undoubtedly retire with the money they already have, so other than it looking bad on a resume, do they personally, truly give a &#036;h&#33; if GM, Ford or Chrysler go down? Henry Ford would have cared. Walter Chrysler would have cared. These modern day CEOs are not the real owners of the company. No one person 'owns' GM or Ford these days."<<

That was not solely because Henry & Walter owned the companies, but primairily because they were men cut from a different cloth than men are today. Strong senses of personal & professional pride, and a working moral compass did much to guide their actions & policies, and these characteristics are ususally found in stories of success. Do Rick & Alan have these characteristics?- I don't know; we don't get a very clear picture of them from 'down here', do we?

Well put.

[gm4life]

I factor that in. They need contracts that work for both the worker and GM.

[BrewSwillis]

I like Rick alot and look at what he has done at his time at GM. He has done alot of smart things, they need to file chapter 11 kick the Unions out the door and then hire them back WITH FAIR WAGES, then I would give the 25 billion to use wisely. I know everyone is hurting badly.

So, that also means dumping pensions and health care for all the retirees that were promised those things?? You think that is the right thing to do?

Here's a good quote on Japan's national health care, and how it affects their domestic automakers profits:

Toyota and its Japanese cousins started out with a benefit package that GM, Ford and Chrysler had to purchase themselves. In short, Toyota, Honda and Nissan had a government 'bailout' from day one in terms of health care and retirement pensions.

From this excellent article: http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2008/11/g...nal-health.html

[Drew Dowdell]

The CEOs of Nissan, Honda, Toyota and BMW aren't taking private jets to ask Congress for billions in bailout money. Are they asking for a bailout from their governments? I dont know, but they're not trying to get your tax dollars like the domestics are, thats why the domestics are the story.

Their governments already pay for healthcare.

[Drew Dowdell]

Don't kid yourselves - Wagoner owns a ton of GM stock, and it wasn't bought at $3, either.

Look, that is the greater issue with what is wrong with capitalism and globalism: nobody owns the company, so why should they give &#036;h&#33;? Any one of these CEOs can undoubtedly retire with the money they already have, so other than it looking bad on a resume, do they personally, truly give a &#036;h&#33; if GM, Ford or Chrysler go down?

Henry Ford would have cared. Walter Chrysler would have cared. These modern day CEOs are not the real owners of the company. No one person 'owns' GM or Ford these days.

I understand the symbolism, but would YOU work 60 hour weeks (which I am sure all 3 are these days), go without sleep and endure the stress for FREE? Especially for Mulally: he was hired to clean up the mess and he should be compensated, IMO.

IMO, 60% of what these three companies are going through AT THIS VERY MOMENT has nothing to do with any fault of the individual companies. Eating crow (as they did in front of Washington yesterday) and putting up with the total BS at the hearings must have been personally agonizing for these gentlemen. The greater concern here should be is what happens if one of them has a heart attack and dies from the stress, or just resigns and walks away from the mess.

What kind of a signal would that send?

You have to give him this, Bill Ford did try and then stepped aside when I was obvious he was no good at it.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The CEOs of Nissan, Honda, Toyota and BMW aren't taking private jets to ask Congress for billions in bailout money. Are they asking for a bailout from their governments? I dont know, but they're not trying to get your tax dollars like the domestics are, thats why the domestics are the story.

Doesn't matter, they've been propped up by their governments and our government AND our industry for years now.

But, I see your point... americans are too stupid and lazy to get the whole story.