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Camino LS6

Isolationism

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It could start with playing the devil's advocate in favor of continuing our so-called free trade policies.

Try seeing it from their pov and build your argument.

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If America went Isolationist, Canada would self destruct because we have nobody to sell our $h! too... so um, No Thanks.

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It could start with playing the devil's advocate in favor of continuing our so-called free trade policies.

Try seeing it from their pov and build your argument.

At this point it is less an argument than a vagrant thought of another way forward in a changing world. The seed is there, but it hasn't germinated into a solid position just yet.

I think it might lead to a re-definition of exactly what isolationism really means, but I have to chew on it a bit longer.

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Not our problem

I can think of instances where saying just that could have saved us untold troubles.

Same goes for this one:

Not our business.

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If America went Isolationist, Canada would self destruct because we have nobody to sell our $h! too... so um, No Thanks.

Not in the way I'm thinking of it.

I'm not merely thinking about international trade here.

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That may cause more wars than you think. During WWII Hitler went as far as he did because the USA was an isolationist nation and wanted no parts of another world war.

Saddam asked the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq what would be the US position if it were to invade a neighboring country. The US Ambassador said the US would consider that an internal Arab problem. Within days Iraq invaded Kuwait.

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That may cause more wars than you think. During WWII Hitler went as far as he did because the USA was an isolationist nation and wanted no parts of another world war.

Saddam asked the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq what would be the US position if it were to invade a neighboring country. The US Ambassador said the US would consider that an internal Arab problem. Within days Iraq invaded Kuwait.

My notion of finding a new way forward doesn't include blatant stupidity.

Absolutes are never adequate answers.

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It occurs to me that even if Obama's agenda meets with success across the board, that success would just leave us with a more stable version of the same country we've all been dissatisfied with for years.

In other words, his plans have "getting things back to normal" as a goal, and I'm beginning to question the value of "normal".

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At this point it is less an argument than a vagrant thought of another way forward in a changing world. The seed is there, but it hasn't germinated into a solid position just yet.

I think it might lead to a re-definition of exactly what isolationism really means, but I have to chew on it a bit longer.

Merely advocate for how the Chinese or Indian peasantry can be exploited indefinitely for the cheap labor that they provide.

Yet throughout our Nation's history their labor was exploited here. Building tunnels while the Trans-Continental Railroad was under construction.

We still hire illegal immigrants to do the jobs our youth find offensive.

The presence of these illegal migrant day-laborers serves to hold down the prevailing wages in the regions where they're concentrated. Look at California. Arnold Schwarzenegger may as well be El Presidente of Northern Mexico for those people under his care.

In the Princeton/Plainsboro area where my sweetie works they have had an influx of foreign nationals invited to come here under the auspices of the H-1B visa program.

Many folks have no idea how far down-the-river we have already been sold.

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My notion of finding a new way forward doesn't include blatant stupidity.

Absolutes are never adequate answers.

Have you thought about who would be handling this Isolationism? It would be the same politicians that are handling the loans for GM ... :mind-blowing:

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the concept behind the word would mean individually (or families) we'd have to be self sufficient. as a nation we'd have to be that too... it could be theoretically possible, if people wanted to do without quite a few things... but before we got there, we'd have to fundamentally change the idea that gov't can do more good than bad (not sure how i mean this...?). becoming isolationists would grow certain businesses bigger, and practically kill others... like GM, and other international businesses

the good that would come would be quick increases in mining and manufacturing jobs, given enough knowledgeable people to work in those sectors... we'd have a big influx of military men and women back into this country (something that should happen anyway)

the bad would out weigh the good, in the long run, i don't think people would be content in an "isolated" country.

isolationism would either require much more gov't or people practially being uber-nationalistic ( edit: /conservative, but not as in libertarian conservative /edit).... ideas on this thought?

ideas on the rest of my post?

Edited by loki
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Have you thought about who would be handling this Isolationism? It would be the same politicians that are handling the loans for GM ... :mind-blowing:

Good point.

I'll have to consider a fix for that as well.

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the concept behind the word would mean individually (or families) we'd have to be self sufficient. as a nation we'd have to be that too... it could be theoretically possible, if people wanted to do without quite a few things... but before we got there, we'd have to fundamentally change the idea that gov't can do more good than bad (not sure how i mean this...?). becoming isolationists would grow certain businesses bigger, and practically kill others... like GM, and other international businesses

the good that would come would be quick increases in mining and manufacturing jobs, given enough knowledgeable people to work in those sectors... we'd have a big influx of military men and women back into this country (something that should happen anyway)

the bad would out weigh the good, in the long run, i don't think people would be content in an "isolated" country.

isolationism would either require much more gov't or people practially being uber-nationalistic.... ideas on this thought?

ideas on the rest of my post?

Your post (and Longtooth's) are giving me a good reference point to work from as to the traditional definition of isolationist thought.

That helps quite a bit as I think about how to differentiate my idea from that traditional theme.

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Your post (and Longtooth's) are giving me a good reference point to work from as to the traditional definition of isolationist thought.

That helps quite a bit as I think about how to differentiate my idea from that traditional theme.

I think terminology can hamstring this effort.

The rest of the world having become accustomed to dumping product below cost in some cases for decades would howl for certain.

We could term it maintaining our sovereign integrity.

It could result in self-sufficiency in meeting our energy needs.

Or closer to that goal.

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I think terminology can hamstring this effort.

The rest of the world having become accustomed to dumping product below cost in some cases for decades would howl for certain.

We could term it maintaining our sovereign integrity.

It could result in self-sufficiency in meeting our energy needs.

Or closer to that goal.

This post edges much closer to my thinking.

A main tenet of the idea is the need to look within.

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So..are you just thinking about this for fun? :huh:

:lol:

I guess I am.

I have a thing for philosophical thinking.

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Going AFK for just a bit - have to walk Arkus and hook up my snowplow. :rolleyes:

Keep the ideas coming!

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Sounds idealistic, and camino IS an idealist, but it's not workable. We are irrevocably intertwined with the rest of the world and, with more people in the US that can be categorized as "recent" immigrants, that's even less likely to happen.

However, I like the idea. That's why I talk about Portugal and Uruguay so much...because I would love to hole up in a quiet corner of either of those two countries and just say "f@#k everybody and everything," but I have to work and can't afford that.

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Sounds idealistic, and camino IS an idealist, but it's not workable. We are irrevocably intertwined

What was invoked by man can be revoked.

The United States needs many things at present.

The world will need to make do with smaller displays of our largesse.

Charity begins at home.

Time for some reciprocity.

Edited by longtooth
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What was invoked by man can be revoked.

The United States needs many things at present.

The world will need to make do with smaller displays of our largesse.

Charity begins at home.

Time for some reciprocity.

Again, in tune with the direction I'm heading with this.

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Again, in tune with the direction I'm heading with this.

It's in our interest and needn't even be retaliatory.

How the rest of our 'trading partners' view it is another matter.

No one likes it when a dumbass finally wises up.

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