Z-06

Pontiac Should Have Had Genesis Coupe

97 posts in this topic

[source: InsideLine]

Why the Genesis Coupe Shoulda Been a Pontiac

the-mechanic-pontiac-555.jpg

This semi-regular column is written (in his own blood) by an automotive sage and noted malcontent, known as The Mechanic. Mercilessly beaten as a child with rolled-up back issues of old car magazines, our free-spoken hero developed a unique "for your own good" take on cars and the auto industry, along with an unfortunate habit of setting himself ablaze. Later, after a distinguished career as an automotive journalist and magazine editor, he cast off the reins of his musty oppressors, carved out his superego with a plastic spork and became The Mechanic.

Man, what a couple of weeks. Between the swine flu and every single company in America except ol' Edmunds Inc. declaring bankruptcy, I'm ready to fire up the kerosene generator and find my way in the dark for a while. Live off the grid, as they say.

I could probably do it, but not without the DTs. The things I would miss the most are the cars and my iPhone. Don't laugh. I'm not really a techie, but I just got this great app. It's called Get a Life. You share it with your iPhone-addicted friends and it kills them.

Which brings me to Pontiac. It's been sentenced to death, as I'm sure you've heard, and I'm not really that cool with it. Fact is, it shouldn't have happened. Pontiac's demise wasn't fate. It was murder. Cold-blooded murder. A result of bad management, and proof that people who don't like cars shouldn't work at car companies.

Don't get me wrong, it's a mercy killing. Poor thing was suffering. The G3? Give me a freakin' break. Glad to see it go. But I look around the industry and see cars being built by other car companies and I think, "See? That should be a Pontiac." If they were, maybe Pontiac would be kickin' ass instead of pushin' daisies.

What am I talking about?

Well, let's start with the Hyundai Genesis Coupe. $22,000. Turbo engine. Rear-wheel drive. It should be a Pontiac. Talk about a modern-day GTO or Firebird.

Or the Mazda CX-7 and CX-9. Both are affordable, attractive, strong-performing crossovers that look good and allow dads who can't afford a BMW X5 to have a little fun while they're hauling the kids to Chuck E Cheese. Both should be Pontiacs.

Then there's the Mini Cooper. Small. Economical. Affordable and fun. A premium small car for guys who don't want just an econobox. Guys with big ideas and expensive taste but limited resources. Values once at the core of Pontiac in its heyday.

For a more mainstream small car I think the Mazda 3 (yes, another Mazda) with its two body styles and Mazdaspeed variant would fit the Pontiac mold well, but the Civic and Civic Si would work as well.

How about the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8? Our fictitious successful Pontiac would have a true muscle truck, and the Jeep runs with the $100,000 Porsche Cayenne Turbo and Mercedes ML63 AMG for less than half the cash. A modern-day Bonneville.

Hmmm, what else do we need? Oh yes, a sedan.

Kidding. I would keep the G8 around in all its forms -- V6, GT and GXP -- but I would add the wagon and a coupe to the mix. And by coupe I, of course, mean the Camaro. There would be a Pontiac version of the Camaro, essentially making the G8 a subfamily of Pontiacs, much like Land Rover is doing with the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport.

And if you have a coupe, then of course you cut off its roof and make a convertible.

Seems like a fine lineup of machines to me. Each is fun, affordable and high in build quality. They are both desirable and aspirational, but also obtainable. Sure, everything will skew male, but many of these products appeal to women as well. And there is not one in the bunch that doesn't put a priority on dynamics.

That said, it's too late. Pontiac is going to that big boulevard of cars in the sky. And this list of would-be Ponchos is just one man's feeble attempt to set the world right.

What do you think? Would such a lineup have saved Pontiac? Doesn't really matter anyway, since we're all going to die of the swine flu by summer. -- The Mechanic Inside Line, Contributor

E-mail me at themechanic@edmunds.com.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm convinced that when Jesus Christ returns to the earth, he will take the form of a Hyundai Genesis coupe. Is it possible for the rags to gush any more over this car? Their "dream" lineup for Pontiac is pretty stupid anyay. No muscle SUVs or crossover could've saved Pontiac. The only idea of theirs that I like is the Mini competitior. And they tossed the Solstice, which was about as Pontiac as could be.

Fact is, we can go on and on about what Pontiac should've had. Corporate infighting and poor decision making on GM's part led to Pontiac's death, and that's that.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, just like the Genesis sedan (not the styling, but the platform and content) represents what would have made a great Buick, the Genesis coupe (not styling, but the sportiness, RWD, low price, etc) would definitely have made a great Pontiac. It's not just another FWD generic like GM loves to build, it's actually something worthwhile. Sadly, not going to happen..GM is retreating to being 'Generic Motors', just with fewer lookalike FWD models than before. Something like the Genesis coupe represents what the next G6 should have been.

Edited by Cubical
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's quite right in spirit, but not so much in the examples or scope of his lineup.

A smaller, more focused lineup is what should have been.

Calling the death of Pontiac murder is spot-on, but he left out the years of torture at the hands of incompetent management.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Calling the death of Pontiac murder is spot-on, but he left out the years of torture at the hands of incompetent management.

That would make it "BTK."

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the whole concept/idea behind the Genesis is exactly what the Pontiac G6 should have been.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don't think the Genesis Coupe is all that appealing design-wise. It looks like an overly stylized imitation of the Infiniti G37 coupe. The idea behind the car is sweet (affordable RWD coupe), but the actual appearance of the car isn't all that attractive to me.

I would have rather seen Pontiac with something like this:

Link: Visit My Website

Link: Visit My Website

Source: NetCarShow

Now this is the real deal. Clean, simple, sporty, and purposeful lines. Everything Pontiac should be.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally don't think the Genesis Coupe is all that appealing design-wise. It looks like an overly stylized imitation of the Infiniti G37 coupe. The idea behind the car is sweet (affordable RWD coupe), but the actual appearance of the car isn't all that attractive to me.

I would have rather seen Pontiac with something like this:

Link: Visit My Website

Link: Visit My Website

Source: NetCarShow

Now this is the real deal. Clean, simple, sporty, and purposeful lines. Everything Pontiac should be.

The car is not that attractive to most of us American loving car people. The fact is the large share of the market likes cars like this now and are willing to spend money on them.

GM needs to make a Chevy that can compete in this class no later than 5 years from now or they will be very late to the party again.

The Genesis give that G37 image at a Hyundia price. Kind of a modern replay of the 1957 Chevy giving that upscale Cadillac image at a Chevy price. People always want more car than they can afford and that is what Hyundia is making them feel like they are getting.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
G6 should have been true to concept.

Then the press would complain it had no head room with the lower top. The G6 was never going to win many hearts let alone souls.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fact is, we can go on and on about what Pontiac should've had. Corporate infighting and poor decision making on GM's part led to Pontiac's death, and that's that.

That is the truth.

Pontiac had a long history of being the GM redheaded step chid. The only times they did great cars is when they broke GM's rules. GM managment had a division the engineers understood but the corperate big wigs had no idea what to do with it nor give them the proper support to do what they could.

At this point there is no point in would of, could of should of.

Let just bury Pontiac and fix Chevy to make it right and offer the cars we want and they need.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is the truth.

Pontiac had a long history of being the GM redheaded step chid. The only times they did great cars is when they broke GM's rules. GM managment had a division the engineers understood but the corperate big wigs had no idea what to do with it nor give them the proper support to do what they could.

At this point there is no point in would of, could of should of.

Let just bury Pontiac and fix Chevy to make it right and offer the cars we want and they need.

Well as sad as I am, I really kind-of have to agree with you.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
G6 should have been true to concept.

I agree, but the MCE on it helps alot. A friend of my sons whom he goes to college with is considering getting one before they go away. He really likes them alot and is willing to pull his new car purchase ahead so he can get another Pontiac because he likes them. Currently he has a Richard Petty Blue '95 Grand Prix SE Coupe with a 3.1 V6 and loves it, with a 125K on it and she runs like a top.

Edited by gm4life
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>"the Genesis coupe (not styling, but the sportiness, RWD, low price, etc) would definitely have made a great Pontiac."<<

Already had a great, sporty RWD coupe: GTO. It already happened.

>>"I personally don't think the Genesis Coupe is all that appealing design-wise."<<

You're not alone- there's very little cohesiveness and no fresh thinking here.

>>"The car is not that attractive to most of us American loving car people."<<

The car is not that attractive to most of us car loving people that value good design.

>>"Kind of a modern replay of the 1957 Chevy giving that upscale Cadillac image at a Chevy price. "<<

Ahh hyper; your historical analogies always get a chuckle out of me! :):wacko:

>>"Pontiac had a long history of being the GM redheaded step chid. The only times they did great cars is when they broke GM's rules."<<

The only rule PMD broke was the GTO's optional 389; loads of other 'by-the-book' great cars were built !!!

>>"Let just bury Pontiac and fix Chevy to make it right and offer the cars we want "<<

But, you see; "we" don't want Chevy cars.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>>"the Genesis coupe (not styling, but the sportiness, RWD, low price, etc) would definitely have made a great Pontiac."<<

Already had a great, sporty RWD coupe: GTO. It already happened.

It wasn't nearly as affordable, costing over $10k more than what the Genesis bases at. As such, it's going to have limited appeal at that price. It would have been great to have a full line of Monaros imported over with the GTO given more unique styling above to rest to appease those who couldn't appreciate the design. Could have made a great line of Grand Prixs in the lower trims with that one SEMA concept representing the actual GTO.

Unfortunately, all these 'what if's' and imagining what could have saved the brand doesn't change anything.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It wasn't nearly as affordable, costing over $10k more than what the Genesis bases at. As such, it's going to have limited appeal at that price. It would have been great to have a full line of Monaros imported over with the GTO given more unique styling above to rest to appease those who couldn't appreciate the design. Could have made a great line of Grand Prixs in the lower trims with that one SEMA concept representing the actual GTO.

Unfortunately, all these 'what if's' and imagining what could have saved the brand doesn't change anything.

Yes, the GTO was in a different market... there should be room for both largish RWD V8 hefty 'musclecar' style coupes and smaller, RWD 4 cyl/ V6 sports coupes---different markets, different buyers. As I said before, the Genesis is an entry in a market niche Japan, Inc quit a while back..it's like the RWD Celica and 240SX of the past. Or the Prelude or Integra.

Edited by Cubical
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The car is not that attractive to most of us American loving car people. The fact is the large share of the market likes cars like this now and are willing to spend money on them.

I'm not particularly partial to American design. I just think the design of the Genesis Coupe is too busy and tries too hard to make a statement (which is probably the point since Hyundai is entering a new segment with this product). The Coupe 60 Concept has simple yet sporty lines that look effortless; it's a classic design that has an evolutionary future. I do admire that Hyundai has entered the segment, but I don't exactly care for the looks of the finished product. I do agree that it will appeal to a lot of people; it just doesn't appeal to me (which is fine, it doesn't need to).

GM needs to make a Chevy that can compete in this class no later than 5 years from now or they will be very late to the party again.

I thought that was the purpose of the Camaro? The only difference I see is that the Camaro went the retro route and drew on its iconic history while Hyundai went a more modern route with its design (which is appropriate since it doesn't have any iconic, historic models from which to draw inspiration). If GM would install a turbocharged 4-cylinder in the Camaro, then I would say the 2 are about even (except for the overall design approaches).

The Genesis give that G37 image at a Hyundia price. Kind of a modern replay of the 1957 Chevy giving that upscale Cadillac image at a Chevy price. People always want more car than they can afford and that is what Hyundia is making them feel like they are getting.

I do agree with this statement. Expanding on this train of thought, I also think GM missed out on an opportunity to make Pontiac an affordable alternative to BMW. A production version of the Torana TT36 Concept on a downsized version of Zeta would have made a great affordable alternative to those who want but couldn't afford a 3-Series sedan (Pontiac LeMans). I think a production version of the Coupe 60 Concept would have had a similar appeal (Pontiac GTO). I think a smaller 3-door coupe with the same Holden inspired styling direction would have been a great addition to Pontiac's lineup too (Pontiac Fiero). It still amazes me that GM let Pontiac's potential and the underutilized Zeta platform go to waste.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
People always want more car than they can afford and that is what Hyundia is making them feel like they are getting.

that still really is the main draw for hyundai buyers, some sort of concept of a deal, coupled with 'that big warranty' (GM's powertrain warranty is transferrable) and the whole new and up and coming thing.

its a demographic thing. fans of the asian cars grew up in a culture that insisted they hate US brand cars. strike one. two, if you are younger, you ain't gonna have much cash, so obviously for those who can't get credit themselves, or need to keep the price down, any car with more band for the buck will seem like it was custom made for them. it's ATTAINABLE. three, they were told US brand cars were unreliable but its so funny because fans of the asian coupes are younger as opposed to many camaro fans and honestly how many of them have been driving long enough to say any brand is unreliable. if you have never owned a brand new car, or made car payments and been burned by having to make a spendy fix, if all you are judging reliability on is consumer reports or heresay, and what you have to pay to keep the 7 year old car you bought running, then its flawed thinking to begin with. to some degree you can honestly empathize with someone in their 50's who owned some of GM's really crappy stuff in the 70's and 80's and put up with it over and over again. but those who make decisions without a basis of experience (I'm sorry, but you can't judge ownership experience of say, today's GM cars, based upon the fact you bought an 8 year old Olds Intrigue and the manifold gasket went out or something). You didn't own the car in the prime of its stay. Any car 5+ years old is going to need propping up. And likewise, those who thought they would try toyota because everyone said toyotas don't break, and then got a tundra with exploding camshafts or camrys that couldn't shift or sludged up etc.

So many people obviously recall the 5 GM cars etc. they needed to fix because most cars need fixing. my sister used to bitch about ever having to fix her beretta. But she'll never mention how she had the effing thing for like 14 years. If everyone owned 8 toyotas chances are over time you wouldn't have people glowing about them either. Ultimate point, if you were taught to bash US cars and had not yet found out that other brands are mortal too, that whole mancrush bit on the up and comers thats why that is there. A fashion based culture, whatever is the newest look.

It does sort of make sense though that Pontiac should have focused more on driver hardware, but that was just GM at its finest. Trying to pass half executed off as the real deal. History will look back on this decade and find that the car buyers were extremely savvy to detail and quite spoiled in terms of features and technology. I am wondering if 2000-2006 or 7 won't go down as perhaps they greatest if not most prolific era in the auto industry. cause trust me, based upon the mandates being passed down by the kremlin DC, cars like this hyundai will be a luxury.

by the way, why didn't hyundai make the 4 popper a 2.5? woulda made more sense to make a 2.5 turbo with 300hp and save the 100 pounds compared to the large nose heavy v6. the ecotec gets 300hp with the stage whatever kit. the lighter 4 with ecotec power would turn the same times as the v6 scoupe coupe and wouldn't have 56% of the weight on the front end like good BMW's have.-sarcasm-

Edited by regfootball
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not particularly partial to American design. I just think the design of the Genesis Coupe is too busy and tries too hard to make a statement (which is probably the point since Hyundai is entering a new segment with this product). The Coupe 60 Concept has simple yet sporty lines that look effortless; it's a classic design that has an evolutionary future. I do admire that Hyundai has entered the segment, but I don't exactly care for the looks of the finished product. I do agree that it will appeal to a lot of people; it just doesn't appeal to me (which is fine, it doesn't need to).

I thought that was the purpose of the Camaro? The only difference I see is that the Camaro went the retro route and drew on its iconic history while Hyundai went a more modern route with its design (which is appropriate since it doesn't have any iconic, historic models from which to draw inspiration). If GM would install a turbocharged 4-cylinder in the Camaro, then I would say the 2 are about even (except for the overall design approaches).

I do agree with this statement. Expanding on this train of thought, I also think GM missed out on an opportunity to make Pontiac an affordable alternative to BMW. A production version of the Torana TT36 Concept on a downsized version of Zeta would have made a great affordable alternative to those who want but couldn't afford a 3-Series sedan (Pontiac LeMans). I think a production version of the Coupe 60 Concept would have had a similar appeal (Pontiac GTO). I think a smaller 3-door coupe with the same Holden inspired styling direction would have been a great addition to Pontiac's lineup too (Pontiac Fiero). It still amazes me that GM let Pontiac's potential and the underutilized Zeta platform go to waste.

The Camaro is just a modern version of an old Pony car not what many consider new gound. Where the Hyundia has taken the size and perfromance of an Eclipes and transfered it to a car that offeres RWD in the kind of performance they like in a Turbo 4 and popular V6. There just is a large import loving market that was crying for a smaller RWD car and Hyundia gave them one at an afordable price. The Chevy is still look upon as old school.

As mfor styling it does not matter if you or I care for it because many many other wilkling to sped money will. GM needs to take all the money they can form all buyers noitjust the ones who what retro performance with a modern edge.

As for the waste of the Zeta. It was more a matter of bad timing. They did the right thing by delaing it to make it cheaper but it was still a car they needed 5-8 years earlier. Now it is a larger car in times when most people are not looking that big no matter how good the deal. And then toss in the fact Pontiac is going over to make people turn away even more. Lets face it down sizing the Zeta would have not been easy. I would liek to think Holden could do a better job on the Alpha for a proper Torana that will last much longer into the futre. Lets face it the Zeta was a updated older platform.

I still have a gut feeling if gas proces do not go sky high in the next two years we will see a limited import of the Chevy Caprice form Holden. It is a no brainer and they can make money even in low import numbers. Besides Holden needs the money. But they will not anounce this till the supply of G8's are used up.

Edited by hyperv6
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

genesis is 96% the size of the Camaro, and 92% of it's weight.

These minute differences neccesitate spec sheets to discern, for the most part.

The idea that this is some sort 'new direction' for the 'future success of the segment' is a laughfest.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People keep missing the point. I've already said it twice. The Genesis is just that latest in the 'sport compact ' market, which had largely died out. They had 4 cylinders and V6s. Anyone remember the Celica or 240SX? Or the Prelude or for that matter, Hyundai's own Tiberon? Different market niche than the Camaro.

GM and Ford have tried this market in the past, i.e. with the RWD Monza and Capri in the '70s, to the Probe and Beretta in the '80s-90s.

Edited by Cubical
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
that still really is the main draw for hyundai buyers, some sort of concept of a deal, coupled with 'that big warranty' (GM's powertrain warranty is transferrable) and the whole new and up and coming thing.

its a demographic thing. fans of the asian cars grew up in a culture that insisted they hate US brand cars. strike one. two, if you are younger, you ain't gonna have much cash, so obviously for those who can't get credit themselves, or need to keep the price down, any car with more band for the buck will seem like it was custom made for them. it's ATTAINABLE. three, they were told US brand cars were unreliable but its so funny because fans of the asian coupes are younger as opposed to many camaro fans and honestly how many of them have been driving long enough to say any brand is unreliable. if you have never owned a brand new car, or made car payments and been burned by having to make a spendy fix, if all you are judging reliability on is consumer reports or heresay, and what you have to pay to keep the 7 year old car you bought running, then its flawed thinking to begin with. to some degree you can honestly empathize with someone in their 50's who owned some of GM's really crappy stuff in the 70's and 80's and put up with it over and over again. but those who make decisions without a basis of experience (I'm sorry, but you can't judge ownership experience of say, today's GM cars, based upon the fact you bought an 8 year old Olds Intrigue and the manifold gasket went out or something). You didn't own the car in the prime of its stay. Any car 5+ years old is going to need propping up. And likewise, those who thought they would try toyota because everyone said toyotas don't break, and then got a tundra with exploding camshafts or camrys that couldn't shift or sludged up etc.

So many people obviously recall the 5 GM cars etc. they needed to fix because most cars need fixing. my sister used to bitch about ever having to fix her beretta. But she'll never mention how she had the effing thing for like 14 years. If everyone owned 8 toyotas chances are over time you wouldn't have people glowing about them either. Ultimate point, if you were taught to bash US cars and had not yet found out that other brands are mortal too, that whole mancrush bit on the up and comers thats why that is there. A fashion based culture, whatever is the newest look.

It does sort of make sense though that Pontiac should have focused more on driver hardware, but that was just GM at its finest. Trying to pass half executed off as the real deal. History will look back on this decade and find that the car buyers were extremely savvy to detail and quite spoiled in terms of features and technology. I am wondering if 2000-2006 or 7 won't go down as perhaps they greatest if not most prolific era in the auto industry. cause trust me, based upon the mandates being passed down by the kremlin DC, cars like this hyundai will be a luxury.

by the way, why didn't hyundai make the 4 popper a 2.5? woulda made more sense to make a 2.5 turbo with 300hp and save the 100 pounds compared to the large nose heavy v6. the ecotec gets 300hp with the stage whatever kit. the lighter 4 with ecotec power would turn the same times as the v6 scoupe coupe and wouldn't have 56% of the weight on the front end like good BMW's have.-sarcasm-

Say it with me: Assumptions.

genesis is 96% the size of the Camaro, and 92% of it's weight.

These minute differences neccesitate spec sheets to discern, for the most part.

The idea that this is some sort 'new direction' for the 'future success of the segment' is a laughfest.

A Cobalt is 94% the size of the Malibu and 88% of it's weight. Oh noes!!!!1!1!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
genesis is 96% the size of the Camaro, and 92% of it's weight.

These minute differences neccesitate spec sheets to discern, for the most part.

The idea that this is some sort 'new direction' for the 'future success of the segment' is a laughfest.

The fact is it is still smaller and lighter. These are important to the import crowd. For Gods sake these are the people willing to drive around in a gutted CRX just to go faster.

The bottom line is this is a car that is affordable to the import people who could care less about the Camaro and Mustang. It finally gives them a car they can afford and can try to drift in a parking lot without plastic food trays under the rear wheels of a FWD. [Yes they are doing this. Check out on YouTube].

The fact is there is a growing segment of the market that does not require 8 cylinders anylonger as they understand how to make power with smaller engines. They are also wieght aware as less weight is more performance in more than one area. As time goes on this segemnet not only will grow but be required as with fuel standard predicted to reach 50+ MPG in the next 20 years changes will have to come not because we want them but because the MFG will have to make them.

This is just the direction Chevy needs to move in for the next Camaro or RWD coupe they build. Smaller lighter.

Edited by hyperv6
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Say it with me: Assumptions.

A Cobalt is 94% the size of the Malibu and 88% of it's weight. Oh noes!!!!1!1!!

Yes, and they are clearly in two different categories...one a compact, one a midsize. Balthy of all people, as the oracle of all automotive historical knowledge, should know that the many categories have been around and expanding and contracting for decades...

Edited by Cubical
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, and they are clearly in two different categories...one a compact, one a midsize. Balthy of all people, as the oracle of all automotive historical knowledge, should know that the many categories have been around and expanding and contracting for decades...

This is not a matter of catagories but a matter of trends based on needs and wants of the public. The Hyundia is a matter of a trend that fills a need with the young buyers market. Lets face it anything RWD or AWD from Japan and sporty was not affordable to many under 30 years old.

Edited by hyperv6
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor