Volt Owners Love Their Cars Inappropriately

[ocnblu]

According to somebody's bible, Consumer Reports, Chevy Volt owners are so in love with their cars, that a full 92% of them would buy another Volt. That's pretty darn good, and only 1% fewer than last year, when the Volt topped the survey as well.

I don't get the attraction, but this has to be good for GM's public perception amongst the misguided.

Edited December 5, 2012 by ocnblu

[Drew Dowdell]

Because it really is that good of a car... and they love going over 1,000 miles between fill-ups.

[David]

I would be happy with a mid size CUV on the Volt system with a CNG Generator.

[Z-06]

Good car with solid engineering efforts.

[A Horse With No Name]

Good car with solid engineering efforts.

If it wasn't 40 grand, I would own one....

[David]

Good car with solid engineering efforts.

If it wasn't 40 grand, I would own one....

I agree that I think GM needs to get this technology cut in half and will see sales explode with new buyers.

[Blake Noble]

You know, if GM built a version of the Code130R with a Voltec powertrain it would certainly capture my attention.

[ocnblu]

Blasphemy!

[David]

You know, if GM built a version of the Code130R with a Voltec powertrain it would certainly capture my attention.

That would have a low center of gravity with a neutral tight handling with some serious off the line torque. I like that idea.

[ocnblu]

The only Code 130RS that matters is one powered by the 2.0T, with a six speed manual transmission. It would get laughed out of the market if it had a pussy electric motivation system.

[Drew Dowdell]

Good car with solid engineering efforts.

If it wasn't 40 grand, I would own one....

I agree that I think GM needs to get this technology cut in half and will see sales explode with new buyers.

They are working on it.

In 2001, the first iPod came in two sizes... a 5gb and a 10gb. They were Mac only and couldn't be synced with PCs without some very annoying hacking. All they did was play music. They cost $400 and $500 respectively.

Today, a full color touch screen iPod nano with 16gb, built in radio, video playback, and accelerometer is $149.

The iPod classic, the closest relative to the original iPod, now has 16 times the capacity of the original for a mere $249.

The Volt is the original iPod of cars in this regard.. the proof of concept and of market.

[Blake Noble]

The recipe I posted could make for one hell of an autocross car.

<b>The only Code 130RS that matters is one powered by the 2.0T, with a six speed manual transmission. It would get laughed out of the market if it had a pussy electric motivation system.</b>

No, not at all. Especially if you're only offering that as an option. In fact, that's where GM needs to take this technology after they've wrapped up the work on the ELR.

Tesla gets it. I mean c'mon ...

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Give me more electric cars that do that. I'll happily get on the bandwagon. Yeah, I'll miss the exhaust note of a V8 engine, but that's why I'll already have a car for that purpose.

Not only that, but more electrified cars could spell the end for front-wheel drive being the preferred means of putting power down to the pavement.

Edited November 30, 2012 by black-knight

[Drew Dowdell]

Over 400 lb-ft at zero RPM will do that for ya...

[Blake Noble]

Yup. Give me more (and cheaper) Tesla Model S's and fewer Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) and I'll be a happy camper.

[David]

Yup. Give me more (and cheaper) Tesla Model S's and fewer Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) and I'll be a happy camper.

Can we just put the Nissan Leaf where it belongs in the yard waste bin?

[the_yellow_dart]

Good car with solid engineering efforts.

If it wasn't 40 grand, I would own one....

I agree that I think GM needs to get this technology cut in half and will see sales explode with new buyers.

They are working on it.

In 2001, the first iPod came in two sizes... a 5gb and a 10gb. They were Mac only and couldn't be synced with PCs without some very annoying hacking. All they did was play music. They cost $400 and $500 respectively.

Today, a full color touch screen iPod nano with 16gb, built in radio, video playback, and accelerometer is $149.

The iPod classic, the closest relative to the original iPod, now has 16 times the capacity of the original for a mere $249.

The Volt is the original iPod of cars in this regard.. the proof of concept and of market.

True, except I think that the Prius/Insight were more like the iPod in your example... The Volt is more like the Zune. GM should have learned from Toyota and Honda how to make it more affordable. I'm glad the car is doing well, but in my eyes, it's a failure because of the price tag.

[David]

Good car with solid engineering efforts.

If it wasn't 40 grand, I would own one....

I agree that I think GM needs to get this technology cut in half and will see sales explode with new buyers.

They are working on it.

In 2001, the first iPod came in two sizes... a 5gb and a 10gb. They were Mac only and couldn't be synced with PCs without some very annoying hacking. All they did was play music. They cost $400 and $500 respectively.

Today, a full color touch screen iPod nano with 16gb, built in radio, video playback, and accelerometer is $149.

The iPod classic, the closest relative to the original iPod, now has 16 times the capacity of the original for a mere $249.

The Volt is the original iPod of cars in this regard.. the proof of concept and of market.

True, except I think that the Prius/Insight were more like the iPod in your example... The Volt is more like the Zune. GM should have learned from Toyota and Honda how to make it more affordable. I'm glad the car is doing well, but in my eyes, it's a failure because of the price tag.

Toyota and Honda only have been successful due to the coolaid drinking lemmings. GM saw the short commings of their hybrids and went one step further and we have the VOLT and the Initial High Price.

I would rather have GM do what they did than follow Ford who licensed from Toyota and had an ok version still with high price and sending more american money back to Japan.

At least gm keeps all the money here.

[Drew Dowdell]

Good car with solid engineering efforts.

If it wasn't 40 grand, I would own one....

I agree that I think GM needs to get this technology cut in half and will see sales explode with new buyers.

They are working on it.

In 2001, the first iPod came in two sizes... a 5gb and a 10gb. They were Mac only and couldn't be synced with PCs without some very annoying hacking. All they did was play music. They cost $400 and $500 respectively.

Today, a full color touch screen iPod nano with 16gb, built in radio, video playback, and accelerometer is $149.

The iPod classic, the closest relative to the original iPod, now has 16 times the capacity of the original for a mere $249.

The Volt is the original iPod of cars in this regard.. the proof of concept and of market.

True, except I think that the Prius/Insight were more like the iPod in your example... The Volt is more like the Zune. GM should have learned from Toyota and Honda how to make it more affordable. I'm glad the car is doing well, but in my eyes, it's a failure because of the price tag.

Neither of those cars are purely electric propulsion and not in the same class.

[A Horse With No Name]

The only Code 130RS that matters is one powered by the 2.0T, with a six speed manual transmission. It would get laughed out of the market if it had a pussy electric motivation system.

You mean like Porsche and Rolls Royce, who are bringing out hybrid systems?

Yup. Give me more (and cheaper) Tesla Model S's and fewer Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) and I'll be a happy camper.

Can we just put the Nissan Leaf where it belongs in the yard waste bin?

Or on the yard as a golf cart...

Seriously, for some urban commuiters, it makes sense, but only for a few...

You know, if GM built a version of the Code130R with a Voltec powertrain it would certainly capture my attention.

Agreed!

[ocnblu]

The simple fact remains that they aren't going to sell any.

[A Horse With No Name]

The simple fact remains that they aren't going to sell any.

Depends on a lot of factors...

[hyperv6]

The Volt has two things going for it. One it is a system that works and works very well. Also it has the kind of buyer that has to commit to the concept when buying, In other words they have bought into the program well before buying because of the price and the other needs to by installing charging stations etc. They have done their home work and did not just buy on a whim.

Price has been a factor as GM bit off a pretty big chunk here and knew that going in. The only mistake they made is anouncing the larger sales numbers when the odds were stacked against them with a unknow product at a higher than normal price. Lets face it the Prius at under $30K is little risk to many before they really knew and understood the car.

With the nearing of the Gen 2 Volt and work aready well on the way on Gen 3 we should see imporvments in performance, battery life and price with each and every one.

Now too after the election I expect with the EPA in Obama's hands there will be even more pressure to increase the CAFE even more. If this happens you could see some crazy S^%t down the road. We already have Porsche and Ferrari playing with electric system in performance cars so we should not be suprised to see GM apply it in other areas.

I just hope they come up with something better and cheaper than the E assist system. I just have not been won over on this one yet. I know it is the best thing they have for now but I hope they can surplant it with things learned by the Voltech. Down the road the Voltech investment may pay off big in all models.

[FAPTurbo]

Okay can the electric car haters just bury themselves already and hurry up the process of becoming fossil fuels because it seems that their goal is to buttsecks liquefied dead dinosaur carcasses.

[ocnblu]

...said the owner of a GMC Sierra that burns diesel fuel and a motor bike that burns gasoline. I don't know if you still have your other non-electric car or not. please post photos of your new Spark Electric as soon as you get it, mmkay.

[Drew Dowdell]

Sell any what?

...said the owner of a GMC Sierra that burns diesel fuel and a motor bike that burns gasoline. I don't know if you still have your other non-electric car or not. please post photos of your new Spark Electric as soon as you get it, mmkay.

He isn't denying that electric cars are coming though.

[David]

I will say this that every person I have talked with that drives a Volt says it is better than Prius or any other hybrid they have looked at and test drove. I am starting to see a ton of Volts on the roads here in Seattle. They seem to be becoming very popular.

[ocnblu]

I hereby deny that I have been denying that electric cars exist, and that more are coming. What I have been saying is, people are not buying them with their money. Yes, they are buying a few of them with a good deal of other people's money, but not their own. Electrics have fatal practicality and usability issues that have not been solved in 100 years of electric cars. Manufacturers are being coerced into spending precious engineering dollars on electric vehicles that people will not buy because the electric car has a cord that is only so long... there is no real freedom of mobility with electrics. And that has not changed.

I've conceded before that the Volt, a GM vehicle, is the best out of all of these compromised mobility devices. That is why I posted this thread. But being the best heavily electrified mass market car doesn't make it as good as a gas or diesel powered car, because the inherent issues still affect it.

Maybe the best thing for me to do is to stop stating the obvious and let you guys have your fun with Power Wheels. Everybody here knows my stance on this issue, as I've made it perfectly clear. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, I've just been the most unrelentingly vocal about it. So if this is no longer a discussion forum that allows dissenting points of view, I will do my best to comply and STFU.

Edited December 3, 2012 by ocnblu

[Drew Dowdell]

you're allowed to dissent all you want... just try to be accurate in the points your dissent.

What mobility issue does the Volt have? Or the Pruis plug in? Or even the Tesla Model S?

Albert rarely drives more than 15 miles a day, to and from work and two and from family visits. Two, maybe three times a year we take the CR-V on a long trip.

An EV would suit his driving pattern just fine for daily use and then rent a car for the times longer range is needed or just buy a Volt to eliminate range anxiety. In our household, the Volt would likely go months between gas fill ups and we'd likely hit the mode where the generator runs just to burn off old gas fairly regularly.

The main reason we haven't gone with a Volt yet is cost. GM is working on that issue already.

There are a great many families like us on these points.

[ocnblu]

You have to come home to plug it in. There's a gas station on every street corner.

Why spend money to rent a car, just buy a usable car to begin with. One that can be used in any personal transportation situation you can name.

[Drew Dowdell]

You have to come home to plug it in.

Not for much longer.

Why spend money to rent a car, just buy a usable car to begin with. One that can be used in any personal transportation situation you can name.

Because as the price of EVs drops and the price of gasoline increases, the math will increasingly work in the EV's favor. I can rent a sedan from National for a long weekend for less than the cost of two CR-V fill-ups. I very nearly did this Thanksgiving because I hate driving that car so much and the cruise control is busted. I know that an EV would save me more than 2 CR-V fill ups in gasoline over the course of a year.

[ocnblu]

Not for much longer?

[David]

Not for much longer?

Actually not at all, the EV highway is here and while I still do not support it or how the tax dollars have been spent, the west coast has plug in stations pooping up everywhere!

[ocnblu]

West Coast USA is a small portion of the world, and it's a "different" area. And "pooping" is right!

[Drew Dowdell]

Not for much longer?

There are major retailers installing fast charging stations. Best Buy and Home Depot are two that I know of.

[ocnblu]

That's fantastic news! What a waste of money for something that will go unused. I will go to Lowe's from now on, I don't feel like subsidizing these fools by paying higher prices to help them cover these specious costs.

Edited December 3, 2012 by ocnblu

[Drew Dowdell]

Time will tell.

[ocnblu]

Agreed.

[Drew Dowdell]

There was also a time where "no one" would buy a $500 device which had a tendency for hard drive crashes just to be able to carry all of their music with them anywhere they went. We had 100 slot CD cases and 6-disk trunk mounted CD changers for that dag-namit! *shakes cane*

[David]

That's fantastic news! What a waste of money for something that will go unused. I will go to Lowe's from now on, I don't feel like subsidizing these fools by paying higher prices to help them cover these specious costs.

Your Too Late, Lowe's is a major advertiser of selling like Home Depot Home and commercial charging stations and they have them installed in their parking lots. Fools are charging 99 cents per hour compared to ever where else in washington that is at 79-89 cents per hr. I am sure some electric lover will pay it when they get to the store and realize they have no juice unless they are the Awesome VOLT drivers who will drive home while using their generator and then plug in.

There was also a time where "no one" would buy a $500 device which had a tendency for hard drive crashes just to be able to carry all of their music with them anywhere they went. We had 100 slot CD cases and 6-disk trunk mounted CD changers for that dag-namit! *shakes cane*

My suburban still has the 12 disk cd changer under the front passenger seat. Works great. Awesome Alpine unit.

[hyperv6]

Lets stop the bi%^&Ch feat here.

The reality is the electric car is not going to be a major factor in the near term like or not. But the electric vehicles will be a growing element in the product line of every and I mean every MFG out there. It is now proven there are people that are willing to buy these cars and willing to put up with what they needs to fit them in their lives. Also the Auto MFG want to grow this segment as it will help them more and more in the EPA's race to keep rasing the standards more.

While some may complain the Volt is expensive I see so few people complain that the Tesla S is over priced. Yes they push a price in the media of $59K which is not cheap but load up on options and you are looking dead at $106,900 Dollars. We just locally here got the first Tesla S in the state of Ohio. The local already had a speedster and is a diciple of the brand. While it is a neat car is is not going to pave the way of the market .

The future lies with the Volt. Prius, Ford Focus and Chevy Spark like Electric cars. These are the cars that the volume will pave the way just as the Model T did for the Gas car.

The Gas engine did not replace the horse overnight and we are into the same state of growth with acceptance and pricing. I see the electric market at 25% share by 2030 and that could change depending on the price of oil due to world conflicts.

Other factors need addressed as the EPA is trying to kill coal at the same time they are looking to cut back on Nukes. This leaves an energy gap that will be an issue no matter if the auto is included or not.

The electric car is not for everyone nor will all own one but it will be a segment that is here and will increase as time goes on.

Edited December 3, 2012 by hyperv6

[David]

Lets stop the bi%^&Ch feat here.

The reality is the electric car is not going to be a major factor in the near term like or not. But the electric vehicles will be a growing element in the product line of every and I mean every MFG out there. It is now proven there are people that are willing to buy these cars and willing to put up with what they needs to fit them in their lives. Also the Auto MFG want to grow this segment as it will help them more and more in the EPA's race to keep rasing the standards more.

While some may complain the Volt is expensive I see so few people complain that the Tesla S is over priced. Yes they push a price in the media of $59K which is not cheap but load up on options and you are looking dead at $106,900 Dollars. We just locally here got the first Tesla S in the state of Ohio. The local already had a speedster and is a diciple of the brand. While it is a neat car is is not going to pave the way of the market .

The future lies with the Volt. Prius, Ford Focus and Chevy Spark like Electric cars. These are the cars that the volume will pave the way just as the Model T did for the Gas car.

The Gas engine did not replace the horse overnight and we are into the same state of growth with acceptance and pricing. I see the electric market at 25% share by 2030 and that could change depending on the price of oil due to world conflicts.

Other factors need addressed as the EPA is trying to kill coal at the same time they are looking to cut back on Nukes. This leaves an energy gap that will be an issue no matter if the auto is included or not.

The electric car is not for everyone nor will all own one but it will be a segment that is here and will increase as time goes on.

I would agree with you on everything you say except the time line. 2050-2075 for a 30% market share.

[hyperv6]

Lets stop the bi%^&Ch feat here.

The reality is the electric car is not going to be a major factor in the near term like or not. But the electric vehicles will be a growing element in the product line of every and I mean every MFG out there. It is now proven there are people that are willing to buy these cars and willing to put up with what they needs to fit them in their lives. Also the Auto MFG want to grow this segment as it will help them more and more in the EPA's race to keep rasing the standards more.

While some may complain the Volt is expensive I see so few people complain that the Tesla S is over priced. Yes they push a price in the media of $59K which is not cheap but load up on options and you are looking dead at $106,900 Dollars. We just locally here got the first Tesla S in the state of Ohio. The local already had a speedster and is a diciple of the brand. While it is a neat car is is not going to pave the way of the market .

The future lies with the Volt. Prius, Ford Focus and Chevy Spark like Electric cars. These are the cars that the volume will pave the way just as the Model T did for the Gas car.

The Gas engine did not replace the horse overnight and we are into the same state of growth with acceptance and pricing. I see the electric market at 25% share by 2030 and that could change depending on the price of oil due to world conflicts.

Other factors need addressed as the EPA is trying to kill coal at the same time they are looking to cut back on Nukes. This leaves an energy gap that will be an issue no matter if the auto is included or not.

The electric car is not for everyone nor will all own one but it will be a segment that is here and will increase as time goes on.

I would agree with you on everything you say except the time line. 2050-2075 for a 30% market share.

My numbers are based on numbers those in the industry would like to see. There are so many factors and new develpments in batteries and price of oil that could speed up or slow down growth.

Either way the companies was to see steady slow growth as they need it to help continue the cars and trucks we like here.

[Blake Noble]

While some may complain the Volt is expensive I see so few people complain that the Tesla S is over priced. Yes they push a price in the media of $59K which is not cheap but load up on options and you are looking dead at $106,900 Dollars. We just locally here got the first Tesla S in the state of Ohio. The local already had a speedster and is a diciple of the brand. While it is a neat car is is not going to pave the way of the market .

I think $59,000 grand is too damn expensive, but I've learned by now that no one cares what I think.

Anyhow, on a serious and less curmudgeonly note, I don't think it's exactly fair to single Tesla out on the fact that you can option up a $59,000 dollar Model S to almost double its base MSRP (in other words, buy one for the cost of two). Porsche is far more guilty of this. Go load up a V6-powered Panamera sedan as much as you possibly can on their online builder and tell me who deserves to be crucified here.

Options are the easiest and quickest way for automakers to make money. I shouldn't have to say that. It's a huge factor in how Porsche is happily humming along building expensive aspirational cars in a market that, in reality, doesn't support them. For a small automaker like Tesla that needs all of the money it can get to grow larger, this route is a no brainer.

Personally, I hope that we see more cars like the Model S that correctly marry the concept of performance and electric propulsion with a price tag that doesn't just appeal to the "one percent" (as expensive as it already is, it isn't totally unobtainable to those upper middle class citizens capable of paying a monthly installment on a new BMW 5er, etc.). If someone builds that cheap plug-in $20k rear-drive coupe that I mentioned earlier, I'll get on the electric car bandwagon quietly and happily.

Edited December 4, 2012 by black-knight

[David]

While some may complain the Volt is expensive I see so few people complain that the Tesla S is over priced. Yes they push a price in the media of $59K which is not cheap but load up on options and you are looking dead at $106,900 Dollars. We just locally here got the first Tesla S in the state of Ohio. The local already had a speedster and is a diciple of the brand. While it is a neat car is is not going to pave the way of the market .

I think $59,000 grand is too damn expensive, but I've learned by now that no one cares what I think.

Anyhow, on a serious and less curmudgeonly note, I don't think it's exactly fair to single Tesla out on the fact that you can option up a $59,000 dollar Model S to almost double its base MSRP (in other words, buy one for the cost of two). Porsche is far more guilty of this. Go load up a V6-powered Panamera sedan as much as you possibly can on their online builder and tell me who deserves to be crucified here.

Options are the easiest and quickest way for automakers to make money. I shouldn't have to say that. It's a huge factor in how Porsche is happily humming along building expensive aspirational cars in a market that, in reality, doesn't support them. For a small automaker like Tesla that needs all of the money it can get to grow larger, this route is a no brainer.

Personally, I hope that we see more cars like the Model S that correctly marry the concept of performance and electric propulsion with a price tag that doesn't just appeal to the "one percent" (as expensive as it already is, it isn't totally unobtainable to those upper middle class citizens capable of paying a monthly installment on a new BMW 5er, etc.). If someone builds that cheap plug-in $20k rear-drive coupe that I mentioned earlier, I'll get on the electric car bandwagon quietly and happily.

It is just not Telsa, I discovered you can take a CTS Coupe V and with all options and adding in the performance upgrades from GM Performance have a $100,000 coupe.

[Blake Noble]

While some may complain the Volt is expensive I see so few people complain that the Tesla S is over priced. Yes they push a price in the media of $59K which is not cheap but load up on options and you are looking dead at $106,900 Dollars. We just locally here got the first Tesla S in the state of Ohio. The local already had a speedster and is a diciple of the brand. While it is a neat car is is not going to pave the way of the market .

I think $59,000 grand is too damn expensive, but I've learned by now that no one cares what I think.

Anyhow, on a serious and less curmudgeonly note, I don't think it's exactly fair to single Tesla out on the fact that you can option up a $59,000 dollar Model S to almost double its base MSRP (in other words, buy one for the cost of two). Porsche is far more guilty of this. Go load up a V6-powered Panamera sedan as much as you possibly can on their online builder and tell me who deserves to be crucified here.

Options are the easiest and quickest way for automakers to make money. I shouldn't have to say that. It's a huge factor in how Porsche is happily humming along building expensive aspirational cars in a market that, in reality, doesn't support them. For a small automaker like Tesla that needs all of the money it can get to grow larger, this route is a no brainer.

Personally, I hope that we see more cars like the Model S that correctly marry the concept of performance and electric propulsion with a price tag that doesn't just appeal to the "one percent" (as expensive as it already is, it isn't totally unobtainable to those upper middle class citizens capable of paying a monthly installment on a new BMW 5er, etc.). If someone builds that cheap plug-in $20k rear-drive coupe that I mentioned earlier, I'll get on the electric car bandwagon quietly and happily.

It is just not Telsa, I discovered you can take a CTS Coupe V and with all options and adding in the performance upgrades from GM Performance have a $100,000 coupe.

Yeah, options are alive and certainly well in the 21st century (although I'll conceed the fact that they don't really let you "build" your own car like in the 'olden days). Whatever money-grubbing executive that thought of option groups, packages, or whatever term they're using this week was a pretty smart and greedy, greedy dude. "Want that nice Sat-Nav unit in your new car? Well, I'm afraid now you'll have to order power windows and door locks, heated leather seats, and these other features and packages to get it. Don't worry, though. It'll only be a small premium on the month to afford it."

I will say I've still managed to run into some oddly optioned cars in my time, though. When my dad was looking to buy a new truck, I did run into a very basic '08 Ram SXT that managed to have Sat-Nav without any other luxury features whatsoever. That really confused the living hell out of me.

[David]

That would confuse me also. What the hell happened to the rest of the electronics.

[hyperv6]

Porsche and CTS V are not in the same group as the Tesla S. The Tesla S.

The Testla S is a luxury car that is an electric car first. All you hear about is how great it is and how wonderful everything is and nary a complaint about cost. While it may be a nice car it also is a damn expensive car once you get the better batteries and bigger electric motors. They will tell you how great the cars performance is but seldom do they toss out the top numbers.

When they speak on the CTS they make it clear if it is the V6 or V series and almost speak of them as if they were two different cars.

Now while the Volt is not cheap I do not see the price being near out of line as the Telsa S but the Volt gets beat into the ground for it. I just feel the Tesla gets a free pass and the Volt takes many more hits just because it is GM.

My long running thought has been the other companies have tried to nail the Volt as this technology is not cheap and if it proves to be the one of choice with the public as the price comes down it could cause the other companys the need to abandon the heavy investment they already have in their own electric progams. Companies like Toyota and Honda really want and need the Volt to fail or they will have to spend billions more to counter it.

Tesla is not as much of a threat as they are small and while they may compete in the market they just do not have the capaital to compete with the other nor will they have it for years to come if all goes right.

I feel Tesla will be sold off at some point the the investers will take the money and move on.

I am waiting to see how they people againts GM will attack the ELR too once it hits. 15 years ago pre Prius none of this would have happened but today I feel companies like Toyota and Honda often try to contol the media of the compitition more so than any other automakers.

If the Tesla was a GM car would it have been car of the year at Motor Trend at $106.000?

Edited December 4, 2012 by hyperv6

[David]

Porsche and CTS V are not in the same group as the Tesla S. The Tesla S.

The Testla S is a luxury car that is an electric car first. All you hear about is how great it is and how wonderful everything is and nary a complaint about cost. While it may be a nice car it also is a damn expensive car once you get the better batteries and bigger electric motors. They will tell you how great the cars performance is but seldom do they toss out the top numbers.

When they speak on the CTS they make it clear if it is the V6 or V series and almost speak of them as if they were two different cars.

Now while the Volt is not cheap I do not see the price being near out of line as the Telsa S but the Volt gets beat into the ground for it. I just feel the Tesla gets a free pass and the Volt takes many more hits just because it is GM.

My long running thought has been the other companies have tried to nail the Volt as this technology is not cheap and if it proves to be the one of choice with the public as the price comes down it could cause the other companys the need to abandon the heavy investment they already have in their own electric progams. Companies like Toyota and Honda really want and need the Volt to fail or they will have to spend billions more to counter it.

Tesla is not as much of a threat as they are small and while they may compete in the market they just do not have the capaital to compete with the other nor will they have it for years to come if all goes right.

I feel Tesla will be sold off at some point the the investers will take the money and move on.

I am waiting to see how they people againts GM will attack the ELR too once it hits. 15 years ago pre Prius none of this would have happened but today I feel companies like Toyota and Honda often try to contol the media of the compitition more so than any other automakers.

If the Tesla was a GM car would it have been car of the year at Motor Trend at $106.000?

I can see Telsa becoming a division of GM, moved into the Caddy Family as a special sub division and then the technology used to move Volt everywhere with longer battery life and reducing the price greatly.

[Blake Noble]

Porsche and CTS V are not in the same group as the Tesla S. The Tesla S.

The Testla S is a luxury car that is an electric car first. All you hear about is how great it is and how wonderful everything is and nary a complaint about cost. While it may be a nice car it also is a damn expensive car once you get the better batteries and bigger electric motors. They will tell you how great the cars performance is but seldom do they toss out the top numbers.

When they speak on the CTS they make it clear if it is the V6 or V series and almost speak of them as if they were two different cars.

Now while the Volt is not cheap I do not see the price being near out of line as the Telsa S but the Volt gets beat into the ground for it. I just feel the Tesla gets a free pass and the Volt takes many more hits just because it is GM.

My long running thought has been the other companies have tried to nail the Volt as this technology is not cheap and if it proves to be the one of choice with the public as the price comes down it could cause the other companys the need to abandon the heavy investment they already have in their own electric progams. Companies like Toyota and Honda really want and need the Volt to fail or they will have to spend billions more to counter it.

Tesla is not as much of a threat as they are small and while they may compete in the market they just do not have the capaital to compete with the other nor will they have it for years to come if all goes right.

I feel Tesla will be sold off at some point the the investers will take the money and move on.

I am waiting to see how they people againts GM will attack the ELR too once it hits. 15 years ago pre Prius none of this would have happened but today I feel companies like Toyota and Honda often try to contol the media of the compitition more so than any other automakers.

If the Tesla was a GM car would it have been car of the year at Motor Trend at $106.000?

You're missing the point entirely. That's okay. I expected that.

[the_yellow_dart]

We can still choose gas powered cars for now with little consequences. As supplies start to dry up and China and India start driving more and more, the future supply is going to be a huge problem. There will always be -some- oil available for people with classic cars, but in my opinion it will probably not be a practical, affordable way to power a vehicle in 20 years, hell maybe even 10 years.