New Cadillac at 9:30 Tonight

[hyperv6]

Over at GM Authority they are stating the new show car will be shown tonight.

[Robert Hall]

9:30 in what time zone?

[Drew Dowdell]

ATS coupe concept. 9:30 est

[David]

6:30PST

[Robert Hall]

Wow...just saw it on Caddy's FB page. Wow. The Elmiraj.

[ocnblu]

[balthazar]

not bad, but they left the Wreath off.

[ocnblu]

Holy Hell... fierce beauty!

[Robert Hall]

The front and profile are great, but the rear--OMG

And the top view...

Edited August 16, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[smk4565]

I really like the back end, but the grille looks too big and the headlights too narrow. Not a fan of the interior, but concept car interiors are always pretty weird. I read this thing is 205 inches long, what is the point of that, it is longer than an Escalade or XTS. At first I thought this was going to become the CTS Coupe, because the CTS front end and body, with this car's C piller and trunk could work, but a CTS Coupe should be near 191 inches long.

[Robert Hall]

I really like the back end, but the grille looks too big and the headlights too narrow. Not a fan of the interior, but concept car interiors are always pretty weird. I read this thing is 205 inches long, what is the point of that, it is longer than an Escalade or XTS. At first I thought this was going to become the CTS Coupe, because the CTS front end and body, with this car's C piller and trunk could work, but a CTS Coupe should be near 191 inches long.

205 is much better than 191, IMO. Maybe this isn't a CTS coupe concept but something larger, related to a future full size flagship sedan...

Edited August 16, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[smk4565]

The rear screams return of the Eldorado. Much better than the bland CTS rear. The rear is great.

[smk4565]

I really like the back end, but the grille looks too big and the headlights too narrow. Not a fan of the interior, but concept car interiors are always pretty weird. I read this thing is 205 inches long, what is the point of that, it is longer than an Escalade or XTS. At first I thought this was going to become the CTS Coupe, because the CTS front end and body, with this car's C piller and trunk could work, but a CTS Coupe should be near 191 inches long.

205 is much better than 191, IMO.

205 inches is Hyundai Equus length, they can't sell a coupe that big, no one would buy it.

The press release also said it has a 4.5 liter twin turbo V8 but I wonder where they got that from since GM hasn't had a 4.5 liter V8 since the late 80s. And adding 2 cylinders to the 3.6 V6 gets you a 4.8 V8. Seems like a mythical engine.

[ocnblu]

Somebody at General Motors Company is wide awake... such perfect sex from every angle... a breath of fresh air, and a classic Cadillac design.

[Robert Hall]

not bad, but they left the Wreath off.

Maybe this is a preview of the new wreathless emblem that's been mentioned previously...

[William Maley]

Working on a story on this coupe.. Will update when I have it all finished. Now Up: Cadillac Introduces The Elmiraj Coupe

not bad, but they left the Wreath off.

I think this is the new emblem.. Back from July,

According to Automotive News, another change is incoming. Sources tell AN that the new emblem will debut on a concept that will be shown at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance in California next month. The new emblem would then appear on production vehicles starting in 2015, although one of the sources say that could change.

Source: Rumorpile: Cadillac To Change Their Emblem

[ocnblu]

Everything is put right with the coffin nose and tail... BRAVO!

[Robert Hall]

Everything is put right with the coffin nose and tail... BRAVO!

The top view is probably my favorite angle...love the length of the hood, the sculpting of the hood and deck..and the proportions that are so clearly RWD and not weak FWD...

[vonVeezelsnider]

If they build this (or a sedan version) then they will have made the first car in a long time that I am actually rather angry I can't afford. Simply beautiful from all angles. I expect we will get to see live shots of it on the lawn tomorrow where I expect all sorts of neat details will 'pop'. I even like the logo- if they were going to change it, I think they have the right idea- just needs a "V" underneath.

Bravo to Ed W. and crew on another tour de force!

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

One word. Eldorado.

This coupe is "true full size" by my definition.

Cadillac Elmiraj Specifications

Model Elmiraj Concept
Body Style 4-passenger, 2-door grand coupe

Dimensions

Height 55 in / 1397 mm
Width 76 in / 1930 mm
Length 205 in / 5207 mm
Curb Weight Approx. 4000 lb / 1814 kg

Powertrain

Engine 4.5-liter Twin Turbo V8
Power 500 hp / 373 kW
Torque 500 lb-ft / 678 Nm

They got this one right just like the Ciel. Now, they need to produce this and the Ciel and the flagship car and go back and fix the XTS.

[smk4565]

In a video one of the designers said there would likely be a 3rd car in the series with this and the Ciel. So I would assume a sedan is the next concept, and the 3 will all inspire what is to be their A8/7-series/XJ fighter.

I for one miss the wreath.

[bobo]

Just imagine if they keep the pillar-less hardtop for production, this would make for a nice competitor to the E-Class coupe. The grille does appear to be too big to me. I don't know about the new, squat emblem. It looks a little naked to me without the wreath.

Edited August 16, 2013 by bobo

[hyperv6]

ATS coupe concept. 9:30 est

Wow a big swing and a miss. I even knew better than that.

Anyone missing the wreath then just has no sense of design or style.

How can you be looking for emblems with body lines and flow like this.

The only taste you have must be in your mouths.

Yes one word Elmirage. Time to stop living in the past that many could care less about and break out into a new future. Time to build new cars with new identities that will create the memories as the old ones did.

Great name no letters and if they do add any let it be a V.

Edited August 16, 2013 by hyperv6

[balthazar]

one word Elmirage.

A big swing & a miss; it's "Elmiraj".

How can you be looking for emblems with body lines and flow like this.

It's right up front, center, in that 3/4-frontal shot. How can you miss it?

Point is, Cadillac is/should be about the details. Obviously, they're testing the waters on tweaking the emblem, so they see a point in examining it even if you do not. Look around the internet- the topic has been heavily discussed on numerous forums, it has significance.

[hyperv6]

one word Elmirage.

A big swing & a miss; it's "Elmiraj".

>How can you be looking for emblems with body lines and flow like this.

It's right up front, center, in that 3/4-frontal shot. How can you miss it?

Point is, Cadillac is/should be about the details. Obviously, they're testing the waters on tweaking the emblem, so they see a point in examining it even if you do not. Look around the internet- the topic has been heavily discussed on numerous forums, it has significance.

And it is thinking like this that keeps Cadillac from being what it could be.

the wreath was off about as much as it was on and if you look at the public comments on the car you are in the minority by wide margin. Time to get out in the real world as see what people think that are stuck in the present not the past.

[Drew Dowdell]

ATS coupe concept. 9:30 est

Wow a big swing and a miss. I even knew better than that.

... good thing we have you around here to Monday-morning quarterback.

[David]

ATS coupe concept. 9:30 est

Wow a big swing and a miss. I even knew better than that.

Anyone missing the wreath then just has no sense of design or style.

How can you be looking for emblems with body lines and flow like this.

The only taste you have must be in your mouths.

Yes one word Elmirage. Time to stop living in the past that many could care less about and break out into a new future. Time to build new cars with new identities that will create the memories as the old ones did.

Great name no letters and if they do add any let it be a V.

Hyper, did you not notice the V on the back of this car? It is the V edition.

[balthazar]

I do like the widened Crest- lower/wider is generally more unique & fresh than '2x2'.
Still looks naked, and it's NOT going to sell one more car than if it has the Wreath... that's just fidgety folk who marketing has convinced anything different is 'better'.

[hyperv6]

ATS coupe concept. 9:30 est

Wow a big swing and a miss. I even knew better than that.

Anyone missing the wreath then just has no sense of design or style.

How can you be looking for emblems with body lines and flow like this.

The only taste you have must be in your mouths.

Yes one word Elmirage. Time to stop living in the past that many could care less about and break out into a new future. Time to build new cars with new identities that will create the memories as the old ones did.

Great name no letters and if they do add any let it be a V.

Hyper, did you not notice the V on the back of this car? It is the V edition.

Yes I just saw it today,

[hyperv6]

I do like the widened Crest- lower/wider is generally more unique & fresh than '2x2'.

Still looks naked, and it's NOT going to sell one more car than if it has the Wreath... that's just fidgety folk who marketing has convinced anything different is 'better'.

Well if you get one just get an old emblem with a wreath and stick on.

The new emblem fits the more modern car better and what looks naked to you looks cleaner to most others.

You may be surprised as too much clutter can hurt a great styling job. Many times less is more.

[balthazar]

Not an old emblem, but something more in line with a modernized version of what is the marque's lifelong ID. The unadorned crest is not that- it appeared in post-war times only on the senior '70-71 cars (and even here it sometimes had vertical wings depending on placement) before it was dumped. It unfortunately looked cheap then and looks cheap now. I understand you think it looks "cleaner", but you are one person.

Have been reading forums all across the web on the Cadillac emblem discussion, and you would be surprised how many recognize the heritage on the table here and have advocated it stay as is, or very close to it. Many of those who have stated they want something totally different come from the POV that everything Cadillac-based needs to be scrapped- many (or most) here are not offering a serious critique, but are taking an opportunity to 'pile on'.

Other than the '99 alteration, we haven't seen any change in the Cadillac emblem in 45+ years. That covers a LOT more good than bad, and the market recognition is irreplaceable. On a very rare occasion, 'less is more', but for most consumers by far; more is more. The stripped Elmiraj emblem is just a market test at this point- we'll see if anything alters in production. The '07 Pontiac emblem offering never came to pass.

[Robert Hall]

Other than the '99 alteration, we haven't seen any change in the Cadillac emblem in 45+ years. That covers a LOT more good than bad, and the market recognition is irreplaceable. On a very rare occasion, 'less is more', but for most consumers by far; more is more. The stripped Elmiraj emblem is just a market test at this point- we'll see if anything alters in production. The '07 Pontiac emblem offering never came to pass.

Was '99 when they got rid of the duckies? I went outside and checked the '00 DTS..the grille emblem has no duckies, but the decklid one has them.

[balthazar]

^ It was the evolution to the current one; no crown points, no merlettes ("duckies"??), streamlined Wreath. Emblem may have seen intermittent implementation, that's been the practice before.

Note that the above is not all-inclusive nor without examples of selectivity. For example, I fail to recall where specifically the '82 emblem was used- not on the hood/decks of cars nor in print advertising for the most part. Cadillac has always varied it's usage & placement of emblems per various constrictions/ design intent.

[Robert Hall]

I've never seen the one listed as 1971...interesting. I've found a number of pics online of '72-74-ish deVilles and Fleetwoods with the crest w/ V under it, and with and without a stand-up hood ornament w/ the wreath...the 71 pics I've found don't seem to have the V under the crest. (probably time to spawn off a separate thread about Caddy badging through the years).

Edited August 17, 2013 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

^ google-imaging is showing a lot of retro-fitting. The two '74 brochures (what's pictured above) fail to show a car with both a stand-up and a hood ornament together, and my google imaging seemed to show a slight majority with only 1. The car above, with both a Wreath and a V is a bit too schizoid for Cadillac to have approved.

The circa '71 'vertical wing' emblem appeared on the taillights, I don't know that it was used anywhere else on the cars.

[ZL-1]

In a video one of the designers said there would likely be a 3rd car in the series with this and the Ciel. So I would assume a sedan is the next concept, and the 3 will all inspire what is to be their A8/7-series/XJ fighter.

I for one miss the wreath.

So the 3 together would end up being the LTS... Interesting...

I don't really miss the wreath, but I think an old-school chrome V would fit right in the new-school crest

[hyperv6]

If it is important to anyone the new car has a very pronounced V on the rear.

I like the new as less is more with design today. Too much clutter on some cars plays havoc with the work they do to the sheet metal.

[balthazar]

Thinking aloud here......... if a handful of people loudly voice that the Wreath evokes a "dreadful" Cad from the '80s, how oh how will General Motors handle renaming the brand to something that is new with no baggage? After all, those same '80s cars with the Wreath & Crest also always had numerous "Cadillac" badges. Because, you know, these things aren't important to anyone. Hm-mmm......

[ZL-1]

If it is important to anyone the new car has a very pronounced V on the rear.

I like the new as less is more with design today. Too much clutter on some cars plays havoc with the work they do to the sheet metal.

Which one? The V-Sport emblem?

[David]

I actually like the new emblem with out the wreath and I do not care for the badge with a V under it, through it, etc. I think this new badge is a clean modern take that will appeal to more people and not hold onto some of the marketing baggage.

I wish this baby the best for a solid quality launch ASAP as I believe there is money on the table waiting for an auto like this.

[hyperv6]

I actually like the new emblem with out the wreath and I do not care for the badge with a V under it, through it, etc. I think this new badge is a clean modern take that will appeal to more people and not hold onto some of the marketing baggage.

I wish this baby the best for a solid quality launch ASAP as I believe there is money on the table waiting for an auto like this.

We have one more transformation to go yet in the 3rd show car. It will take this to the near production level. This one while much closer than the Ciel it is still not producible as shown.

I just hope they keep the dramatic styling but do not compromise the car because of the styling. GM has done this on several cars where they worked hard to keep the styling but paid the price in sight lines and Ergonomics. This one needs to be right on all levels and not compromise on any one of them.

This car needs to be well sorted out and not just as good but better in this segment than the others if they want to make a powerful impact. GM Can do It they just need to sweat the details. The small sins of the ATS are much harder to forgive as the price climbs.

[David]

Agreed, small things you find on the ATS should not happen at all on a car this size. I understand the dash and seats are not production capable, but I do think they can get it close and hopefully show something at the Detroit auto show.

[hyperv6]

I expect a 95% producible sedan will be the third version. I am just puzzled as to when and where it will show up, Detroit, NY, Paris, Pebble Beach next year?

With GM so dark and the many times programs have been started and stopped have made it difficult to gage where they are at on some projects.

Edited August 19, 2013 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

NYC 2014? NYC is mostly for production vehicles though.

ATS was Detroit 2012

CTS was NYC Show 2013

Escalade is OCT 7 in NYC 2013

[ZL-1]

95% production-ready concept at NAIAS 2014 with production version to be shown in early 2015 as a 2016 model?

[hyperv6]

NYC 2014? NYC is mostly for production vehicles though.

ATS was Detroit 2012

CTS was NYC Show 2013

Escalade is OCT 7 in NYC 2013

NYC is getting to be where they announce cars that are 6-9 months out and they surprise us with the intro. The Z/28 was the last one. We knew they were working on it but had no idea how close to release it was and boom there it was. In this case they kept it a secret not only from the public but others in GM.

Has anyone heard that they have clamped down in info with in GM now too or was the Z a isolated case?

[vonVeezelsnider]

My money is on the 95% production ready sedan at next year's Pebble Beach with the production car @ NY or Detroit following in 2015 for a Q1 2016 release.

[David]

I think this car will be out for sale Spring 2015, otherwise GM misses the market and sales opportunity.

[hyperv6]

My money is on the 95% production ready sedan at next year's Pebble Beach with the production car @ NY or Detroit following in 2015 for a Q1 2016 release.

Sounds good to me based on what we know.