Drew Dowdell

The need for premium 4-cylinders cars

Does GM need a range of small, premium economy cars from its luxury brands?  

144 members have voted

  1. 1. Does GM need a range of small, premium economy cars from its luxury brands?

    • Yes - Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, and SAAB could all use them.
      41
    • Yes - But only for certain brands.
      97
    • No - Not at all
      6


92 posts in this topic

I borrowed a friend's Alero 4-cylinder today. Pleasent little car, decent power, decent interior.

With gas hovering at $3.00 a gallon and only going higher, I began thinking about alternatives to replacing my current CTS with an '08 CTS and instead finding a 4-cylinder premium car.

I'm considering my options:

Audi A4 2.0t

Acura TSX 5-speed

Saab 9-3 2.0t

Volvo S40

I'm not entirely thrilled about any of those choices... the 9-3 would be ok, but doesn't light my fire.

I know the Aura is coming, but my concern is that they'll package the Green-Line in a way that you can't get a loaded one. What I want is a completely loaded premium car with great fuel mileage. The ecotech in the Alero, with some Buick Quiet Tuning magic, could really do well in a premium Cadillac BTS or Buick Skylark.

My point is... just because people buy in the premium segment doesn't mean they want only so-so fuel mileage. The Ecotech is a great enough engine and I'd like to see GM use it to it's most profitable potential.

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Exactly. That's why I like the Fusion and Milan... you can get SEL and Premier versions with 2.3L engines and 5-speed manual.

I've crossed the Aura off my list because of the mandatory V-6 and automatic.

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I borrowed a friend's Alero 4-cylinder today. Pleasent little car, decent power, decent interior.

With gas hovering at $3.00 a gallon and only going higher, I began thinking about alternatives to replacing my current CTS with an '08 CTS and instead finding a 4-cylinder premium car.

I'm considering my options:

Audi A4 2.0t

Acura TSX 5-speed

Saab 9-3 2.0t

Volvo S40

I'm not entirely thrilled about any of those choices... the 9-3 would be ok, but doesn't light my fire.

I know the Aura is coming, but my concern is that they'll package the Green-Line in a way that you can't get a loaded one. What I want is a completely loaded premium car with great fuel mileage. The ecotech in the Alero, with some Buick Quiet Tuning magic, could really do well in a premium Cadillac BTS or Buick Skylark.

My point is... just because people buy in the premium segment doesn't mean they want only so-so fuel mileage. The Ecotech is a great enough engine and I'd like to see GM use it to it's most profitable potential.

good ideas, as long as the cars are styled ok, cause i sure dont understand why basically anything that egts good gas mileage has to be a htachback, or just styld weird, i mean why cnat we have a 45 mpg car that is styled like the camaro concept?

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I love the Skylark idea. Cadillac may not quite be the brand for such a car, but Buick is ideal.

Agreed about your four ideas there. Not really that appealing except the SAAB and even then. Also, I believe at least the TSX sucks premium. No thanks.

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I'm considering my options:

Audi A4 2.0t

Acura TSX 5-speed

Saab 9-3 2.0t

Volvo S40

I'm not entirely thrilled about any of those choices... the 9-3 would be ok, but doesn't light my fire.

Have you considered the GLI/GTI/A3? All three are fun to drive and have a premium feel; plus, you get 25/31 with DSG, and 23/32 with a manual.

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I expect the Aura Green Line to be available loaded. Just look at all the goodies that you can get in a Prius - GM isn't going to make the GL an uber-cheapo car, they'll make it also appeal to those that want to look green but not give up their heated seats. ;)

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I love the Skylark idea. Cadillac may not quite be the brand for such a car, but Buick is ideal.

Agreed about your four ideas there. Not really that appealing except the SAAB and even then. Also, I believe at least the TSX sucks premium. No thanks.

Let me do some promotion for the Member Showcase here... :rolleyes:

Posted Image

If this was built on a modified Sigma, pop the 2.4L Ecotec with the HF V6 as an option, should work.

But leave 4-cylinder premium to Saab, I would say. Buicks shouldn't be small cars IMO.

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Let me do some promotion for the Member Showcase here... :rolleyes:

Posted Image

If this was built on a modified Sigma, pop the 2.4L Ecotec with the HF V6 as an option, should work.

But leave 4-cylinder premium to Saab, I would say. Buicks shouldn't be small cars IMO.

I think sigma might be a bit heavy for a 4-banger... the 2.8HF is just adequate in the CTS. That Buick on an Epsilon with a BAS EcoTech would get my dollars. In just around town driving I don't care if it's FWD or RWD. I kinda feel like I'm under using the CTS now.... it was made to run and run fast. I barely get above 45 most of the time. I've had it in storage for the past two weeks while I've been getting my two most recent building purchases up and running.

Fly:

I think a 4-banger BTS could work if they did a performance hybrid model. All the power of a V-6 with all the efficiency of an I4.

Make the BTS rwd and the Skylark fwd and you satisfy both camps.

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The 2.0 DI Turbo in the Solstice GXP would probably work. It's going to get better mileage than the 2.4 in the Solstice.

I think a hybrid CTS with the 3.6 would work just fine. Probably mid-20s around town. I don't know about anyone else, but I find that to be pretty damn good with over 300HP (most likely). My 380HP GTO gets 14.

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Guest Josh

I borrowed a friend's Alero 4-cylinder today. Pleasent little car, decent power, decent interior.

With gas hovering at $3.00 a gallon and only going higher, I began thinking about alternatives to replacing my current CTS with an '08 CTS and instead finding a 4-cylinder premium car.

I'm considering my options:

Audi A4 2.0t

Acura TSX 5-speed

Saab 9-3 2.0t

Volvo S40

I'm not entirely thrilled about any of those choices... the 9-3 would be ok, but doesn't light my fire.

I know the Aura is coming, but my concern is that they'll package the Green-Line in a way that you can't get a loaded one. What I want is a completely loaded premium car with great fuel mileage. The ecotech in the Alero, with some Buick Quiet Tuning magic, could really do well in a premium Cadillac BTS or Buick Skylark.

My point is... just because people buy in the premium segment doesn't mean they want only so-so fuel mileage. The Ecotech is a great enough engine and I'd like to see GM use it to it's most profitable potential.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will send you a PM with who to send your qualms to. His first name is Bob. Last is Lutz and it goes a little like this........ bob.lutz@gm.com

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I'd say there is definitely a market for a premium subcompact/small midsize in the 22-27K range. Possibly a 2.4L and the 2.8L as engines.

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I'd say there is definitely a market for a premium subcompact/small midsize in the 22-27K range.  Possibly a 2.4L and the 2.8L as engines.

Buick is selling truckloads of Excelles. Design a decent new version on the lwb Global Compact architecture and it will sell well in the US, especially with no compact BPG sedan like the old Skylark or Grand Am. BTW, the Chevrolet Vectra is probably bigger than the Opel Vectra, inside and out, it just has a cheaper platform (torsion beam rather than multilink IRS). A Global Midsize version may be better, but it would be more feasible based on the Chinese-market car.

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GM needs to make a real Camry fighter that will develop a track record. The Eco-tec could power it but all of the other components would also have to be premium. The problem is that there are too many cars branded as Camry fighters that aren't packing a very mean punch. The other thing is that they can't say this car is a "Camry fighter" as that takes away the impact and subjects the car to too much scrutiny.

And, here I go again, GM needs to start scoring on the "red dot" parade in Consumer Reports to turn things around. I know I mention this a lot but when I page through Consumer Reports and see all the red dots stack up in Toyota and Lexus, that pisses me off that GM can't get there ... when we all know it can.

Olds, as for those choices, I am not informed enough to be of assistance though others here are. Wanna talk W-bodies, I'm all ears.

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Oh look, a Consumer Reports devotee. Nice. Check your stash from '92 and get back to me. Is the Regal all red dots... or black? And how would you reconcile that with your own experience?

I sometimes go off on a "super economy" binge, as you all have seen with my recent Yaris kick, but if I think about it long enough, I start to wonder if I'll be satisfied with something so drastically different. It's your call. Your choices aren't that far off from your CTS.

Edited by ocnblu

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GM needs to make a real Camry fighter that will develop a track record.  The Eco-tec could power it but all of the other components would also have to be premium.  The problem is that there are too many cars branded as Camry fighters that aren't packing a very mean punch.  The other thing is that they can't say this car is a "Camry fighter" as that takes away the impact and subjects the car to too much scrutiny.

And, here I go again, GM needs to start scoring on the "red dot" parade in Consumer Reports to turn things around.  I know I mention this a lot but when I page through Consumer Reports and see all the red dots stack up in Toyota and Lexus, that pisses me off that GM can't get there ... when we all know it can.

Olds, as for those choices, I am not informed enough to be of assistance though others here are.  Wanna talk W-bodies, I'm all ears.

What has that to do with a premium 4-cylinder?

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I've been thinking recently along the lines of Oldsmoboi - I love my 300C, and it still retains a good percentage of its value. But it runs on premium fuel, and I'm considering trading it on a smaller vehicle with a six that runs on regular. I don't want to go to a four because my primary mission for the C is long distance highway cruising, at which it excells. The most I'd be willing to spend is 28 grand or so.

Some possible candidates -

- a loaded Milan or Fusion, or a stripped Zephyr

- Malibu SS or Poncho G6 GTP

- LaCrosse CXS (assuming it is tuned to run on regular)

- CTS with the 2.8 (again, assuming it is tuned to run on regular)

Each choice involves compromises, some more tolerable than others. How would you all rate the foregoing, assuming a 28K or less price point?

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Buick is selling truckloads of Excelles. Design a decent new version on the lwb Global Compact architecture and it will sell well in the US, especially with no compact BPG sedan like the old Skylark or Grand Am. BTW, the Chevrolet Vectra is probably bigger than the Opel Vectra, inside and out, it just has a cheaper platform (torsion beam rather than multilink IRS). A Global Midsize version may be better, but it would be more feasible based on the Chinese-market car.

That is a great plan but is there anything in the cars like that?

Lacrosse is moving to EPII which I am guessing is the size of the currect LWB EPI cars. So how do you make a large compact or small midsize Buick?

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Have you considered an Audi A3?  Same engine as the A4, but its a bit smaller and less expensive.  4 grande less, in fact.

At that point the size difference would be noticable. I'm willing to accept minor differences in room.. like going from a CTS to a 9-3. Going from a CTS to what is essentially an Audi Golf would proabaly be too big a jump.

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I've been thinking recently along the lines of Oldsmoboi - I love my 300C,  and it still retains a good percentage of its value.    But it runs on premium fuel,  and I'm considering trading it on a smaller vehicle with a six that runs on regular.  I don't want to go to a four because my primary mission for the C is long distance highway cruising, at which it excells.  The most I'd be willing to spend is 28 grand or so. 

Some possible candidates -

-  a loaded Milan or Fusion, or a stripped Zephyr

-  Malibu SS or Poncho G6 GTP

-  LaCrosse CXS  (assuming it is tuned to run on regular)

-  CTS with the 2.8  (again, assuming it is tuned to run on regular)

    Each choice involves compromises,  some more tolerable than others.    How would you all rate the foregoing,  assuming a 28K or less price point?

What about just trading down to a 300 with the 3.5?

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At that point the size difference would be noticable.  I'm willing to accept minor differences in room.. like going from a CTS to a 9-3.  Going from a CTS to what is essentially an Audi Golf would proabaly be too big a jump.

If I'm not mistaken, the Jetta has a larger interior than the A4. So I'd think the same would be true for the A3 and Golf.

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