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Go. All. The. Way: '16 Camaro Motortrend Car of the Year


El Kabong

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I think the new Civic could slip in and steal it. It's a clean sheet new gen like we haven't seen since the 2005 Civic (also a COTY winner) with a really strong design and great new engines. I want the Camaro to win, don't get me wrong, I'm just being objective. The new Civic is an excellent compact.

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No worries man. Contrary to the image certain folks have been trying to pin on me I'm as rational as the next guy. Possibly moreso :D

If the styling turns out to be the dealbreaker for this car then it is what it is. The complaint from MT seems to be that it isn't evolutionary enough. Now, I get that that's one of the main criteria for COTY. But I'm also unclear on how they could evolve it further. What, use a periscope to drive the thing?

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That's really not fair on the Camaro. Case-in-point: The new Golf isn't a shocker in exterior styling either. And the CR-V last year. 

 

Not much advancement in design either. And there's others that have also won with less: the 2012 Fusion, which I think is one of the few examples of a minor refresh that totally changed the whole car.

 

If the Civic wins, then I think I'm going to be disappointed with MT. We've had four straight sedans as winners. It's time a performance car that changes the whole breed win.

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I could see the Miata getting it, though it should be dinged for the same styling reason the Camaro did.

 

No to the TT - Audi is in timeout with VW at the moment.

No to the MB GTS - way too far out of the mainstream

Civic possibly, it probably will be the new best in class, but it doesn't blow me away.

No to the Mirai - it doesn't get sold anywhere

7-series - I guess it is possible, but again it doesn't change the equation from the last 3 decades of 7-series in styling.

 

So I think in reality it is down to Camaro, Miata, and Civic.... with the 7-series being a distant 4th. 

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...I mean, they just pulled no punches about it either: "we liked the Mustang-beating Camaro SS, too. 'World-class sports car performance and dynamics,' Angus MacKenzie said of the Camaro SS. Jason Cammisa agreed. 'I am absolutely in love with this car’s limit handling!'"

Sad sad sad for Mustang fans I reckon

Edited by El Kabong
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...I mean, they just pulled no punches about it either: "we liked the Mustang-beating Camaro SS, too. 'World-class sports car performance and dynamics,' Angus MacKenzie said of the Camaro SS. Jason Cammisa agreed. 'I am absolutely in love with this car’s limit handling!'"

Sad sad sad for Mustang fans I reckon

 

 Brings up Mustang in Camaro finalist award when it appears camaro did not win.

 

Noted.

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Those numbers tho:

CURB WEIGHT (F/R DIST): 3,672 lb (54/46%)

ACCELERATION, 0-60 MPH: 4.0 sec

QUARTER MILE: 12.4 sec@114.6 mph

BRAKING, 60-0 MPH: 104 ft

LATERAL ACCELERATION: 1.00 g (avg)

MT FIGURE EIGHT: 24.1sec@0.85g (avg)

I mean, stats like those from a regular-production Camaro... and at a price well under forty grand. That's a tough combo to top, fer sure.

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See? If you can cough up compelling numbers, the weaker arguments instantly go away.

And after looking at last year's winner the lack of styling innovation may not be an insurmountable thing. After all, secondhand reports on social media aren't always good sources to go on.

One way or another, it'll be an interesting reveal on Monday. And one way or another, they gushed over this car :D

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...I mean, they just pulled no punches about it either: "we liked the Mustang-beating Camaro SS, too. 'World-class sports car performance and dynamics,' Angus MacKenzie said of the Camaro SS. Jason Cammisa agreed. 'I am absolutely in love with this car’s limit handling!'"

Sad sad sad for Mustang fans I reckon

 

 Brings up Mustang in Camaro finalist award when it appears camaro did not win.

 

Noted.

 

It is pulled directly from the article in question Jimmy Hoffa, so take it up with them if you have a issue.

It will most likely go to the Civic IMO, even though I am not impressed with it in the least (design wise anyway).

Edited by surreal1272
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...I mean, they just pulled no punches about it either: "we liked the Mustang-beating Camaro SS, too. 'World-class sports car performance and dynamics,' Angus MacKenzie said of the Camaro SS. Jason Cammisa agreed. 'I am absolutely in love with this car’s limit handling!'"

Sad sad sad for Mustang fans I reckon

Only sad to those who care more about numbers than the cars themselves. You can't lose buying either. Both leaps and bounds greater than cars 10-15 years ago. It's great we're in a time when these two are battling again. THAT brings the best out of both of them. Edited by ccap41
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Uh... nope. The current Mustang GT PP, as has been pointed out by MT previously, is roughly the match for a previous-gen 1LE Camaro. So in reality, only one of these cars is leaps and bounds ahead.

The GT350R perfectly encapsulates Ford's dilemma in this segment right now: in order to be a noteworthy performer they have to do some pretty aggressive upgrades, which means they have to price it higher. Let's not forget that the car's R&T win is the S550's first comparo win against contemporary equipment, as opposed to a lame-duck model. And it took the 70-grand version to pull it off. The cooking models are quickly getting the cold shoulder from the mags as they begin to drive the Alpha Camaro and discover what a special car it is, even in ordinary form.

It's a nice win. But it's also a solitary one.

Edited by El Kabong
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Uh... nope. The current Mustang GT PP, as has been pointed out by MT previously, is roughly the match for a previous-gen 1LE Camaro. So in reality, only one of these cars is leaps and bounds ahead.

The GT350R perfectly encapsulates Ford's dilemma in this segment right now: in order to be a noteworthy performer they have to do some pretty aggressive upgrades, which means they have to price it higher. Let's not forget that the car's R&T win is the S550's first comparo win against contemporary equipment, as opposed to a lame-duck model. And it took the 70-grand version to pull it off. The cooking models are quickly getting the cold shoulder from the mags as they begin to drive the Alpha Camaro and discover what a special car it is, even in ordinary form.

It's a nice win. But it's also a solitary one.

C'mon, man. You've got to be kidding, right?

10-15 years ago there wasn't a Camaro and a Mustang GT had 260hp/290tq and a solid rear axle.

I don't know how one can honestly say either of these you're speaking of are bad cars and deserve talking down to. Interiors have improved ten fold, everyday drivability head and shoulders above the 10-15 year old cars, then the engines and transmissions are superior to even some super cars back then. 435-455hp is nuts for any car that is considered affordable to the masses.

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What I am saying is that when the field consisted of one car, it was stagnant.

Now that the field consists of two (or three, depending on how you define it) cars, the same car that was stagnant when it was alone is lagging now.

That is what I am saying. You can say that it is better than it was a decade ago but who cares if there is precious little to prove it is better than it's current conpetition was five years ago?

The reality is that product-wise, the S550 Mustang is a full generation behind its major competitor. No amount of spin or PR or trolling or bitching can change that reality one iota. It simply is what it is.

If you want to play the sales/profit card, go for it. I have no issues with you or anyone else doing so. I get that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and I'm sure that Ford's marketing and trim level strategy is going to make them money.

But let's not kid ourselves about what the better car is. And let's not kid ourselves about GM not having a plan to ensure that better car makes money on the terms they have set out. As I have noted already, it surely matters less to GM than Ford about fleet sales when GM knows it sells a variant of the Camaro's bones for nearly 100 grand.

Hey, if you don't mind having a car that has a bit more room, a bit less exhaust note, and a fair bit less go, that's perfectly fine. It takes all kinds to make a world. But don't try and use that preference to explain away why the performance discrepancy exists. It exists because GM is just that good, just that determined, and just that well-equipped.

Edited by El Kabong
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^

 

Cough....sales numbers.....cough :cheering:  :cheering:  :cheering:

And as I said: if you consider winning the loyalty of Hertz to be a major priority, then that's ok. No doubt they will go with the fleet of the cheapest old buckets a minimum of dollars can buy.

However, for the purposes of his thread the only relevant numbers are the performance ones. And by that measure, Ford is getting checkmated pretty badly right now.

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