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GM/Buick pondering 4 Door Coupe Based On The Avista!


oldshurst442

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http://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-considers-four-door-buick-avista-coupe/

 

Buick-Avista-four-door-coupe-rendering-f

 

(if watermarked photos are forbidden, sorry...and please delete it.)

 

Link above...according to Motor Trend, Buick bosses with top dog GM execs say that a wheelbase stretch and extra doors could hold key to production green light. Everyone at GM is looking how to make viable business cases for it to happen.

 

 

I say...THIS is what Buick needs to get American asses into a Buick.

I say...when and if a 4 door Buick Avista coupe happens, then there wont be a need for Buick to try to CONVINCE Americans that this aint your father's Buick...the car itself will prove it...VISUALLY...and THAT my friends, is how it SHOULD be done to CONVINCE Americans that Buick is FINALLY not your Grand Father's and Father's Buick...

 

Why Grand Father?

Because I figure...Buick's last great hip car was in the mid 1960s...yeah...by 2016...the time gone by sure feels like it might have been your Great Grandfather's Buick...that Riviera Im talking about. (obviously we may exclude the Buick GS(X) and Buick GN(X). The Buick GNX was your Granddad's last great Buick! Because...the 1980s was also a heck of a long time ago!

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Would be fantastic if it happens... however, I also need a true 2-door coupe to be available as well in addition to the SEDAN.

Yup!

 

Both would be fantastic for Buick.

Which leads me to this discussion...

 

Cadillac...

Cadillac and its ATS and sub-ATS...

 

How does Cadillac peddle an ATS when an Avista 2 door and 4 door (as per concept and concept rendering) make the ATS so obsolete?

Im sure both brands could peddle Alpha and both models could co-exist...but if Cadillac wants to succeed in this market niche...they really need to up their game because it looks like Buick is about to blow their doors off...

Edited by oldshurst442
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I do like the ATS... but this Buick has more STYLE... and that is the name of the game in high-end cars.  The Avista is represented as having the twin-turbo V6 that's in the ATS-V.  All else being equal, the Buick is the better looking car.

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Yup. I was not only talking about performance...but in style too.

I like the ATS looks as well, but its boy racer to me. I like boy racer, but I prefer Rat Pack cool and debonair.

 

This Avista, might be the best looking concept and/or rendering in decades.

I equate this Avista concept 2 door and 4 door rendering on the same high level of WOW  as the Cadillac Ciel and El Mirage.

Edited by oldshurst442
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A 4 door coupe, Balthy.

 

Actually, this is a style that has history, it aint a marketing scheme for the 2000s, it was a styling theme..more common in Germany. Americans did wonders  with it too...

e4db61898ceb6c3abe0610f51a6d446a.jpg

 

fl0114-172866_2.jpg

 

In other words, pillar less 4 door hard tops. 

 

Maybe the term was not known as a 4 door coupes back then, and in the 1990s and early 2000s there were 3 door coupes, or 3 door sedans...

Saturn Coupe and Mazda RX-8 come to mind.

 

Today, the VW CC, Audi A7, BMW 6 GC, Opel/Buick Regal, M-B CLS and CLA all have pillars, not like the old days. The modern versions do  have a more coupe like roof line where its not quite a fast back, back the green house area is full on sporty.

 

Heck, the brand new Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion are borderline 4 door coupes. If Chevy and Ford would call them that, nobody would laugh.

Maybe raise a few non-believer eyebrows, but those people are no sold on the idea of 4 door coupes anyway..

Yes, that was a dig on you, Balthy. With love of course. That is why I posted those pics, so I could suck up to you!

Edited by oldshurst442
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When will this 4-door coupe craze end.  Even run of the mill family cars are trying to look like coupes.  What is funny, is at the same time, most auto makers are killing their coupes and convertibles off.  

 

Although if it keeps more people buying cars and less buying SUVs, bring on the Buick 4 door coupe. 

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I like the Avista, but I'm still not sure even what a sedan version of it would mean for Buick.

 

It wouldn't replace the Regal, so it'd be their top sedan?

 

I think this vehicle would have to get bigger - expect it to be like CTS sized. And with a 3.0TT.....

 

A lot of product overlap, especially if the Buick drives like a Caddy... But I think the styling is very different, and IMO breath-taking.

 

Now if only paying plebes were the ones who write the comments...

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http://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-considers-four-door-buick-avista-coupe/

 

Buick-Avista-four-door-coupe-rendering-f

 

(if watermarked photos are forbidden, sorry...and please delete it.)

 

Link above...according to Motor Trend, Buick bosses with top dog GM execs say that a wheelbase stretch and extra doors could hold key to production green light. Everyone at GM is looking how to make viable business cases for it to happen.

 

 

I say...THIS is what Buick needs to get American asses into a Buick.

I say...when and if a 4 door Buick Avista coupe happens, then there wont be a need for Buick to try to CONVINCE Americans that this aint your father's Buick...the car itself will prove it...VISUALLY...and THAT my friends, is how it SHOULD be done to CONVINCE Americans that Buick is FINALLY not your Grand Father's and Father's Buick...

 

Why Grand Father?

Because I figure...Buick's last great hip car was in the mid 1960s...yeah...by 2016...the time gone by sure feels like it might have been your Great Grandfather's Buick...that Riviera Im talking about. (obviously we may exclude the Buick GS(X) and Buick GN(X). The Buick GNX was your Granddad's last great Buick! Because...the 1980s was also a heck of a long time ago!

 

While cool looking, this is DOA. No headroom in the back, the whole 4 door coupe thing is so over killed that is needs to die. CUV/SUVs are where it is at right now with cheap oil and 200+ mile EV's.

 

While lots to like about this, I have to agree that this would sell in very small numbers and cost more than it makes.

 

Next!

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I like the pics of course, but those are clearly what they are : 4-dr hardtops. 

Avista 'ponder' is NOT a 4-dr hardtop.

 

- - - - -

See your sig pic, oldshurst? What are we looking at there?

Yeah yeah yeah..

2 doors means coupe.

4 doors mean sedan.

 

Killjoy! :smilewide:

 

 

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/gm-considers-four-door-buick-avista-coupe/

 

Buick-Avista-four-door-coupe-rendering-f

 

(if watermarked photos are forbidden, sorry...and please delete it.)

 

Link above...according to Motor Trend, Buick bosses with top dog GM execs say that a wheelbase stretch and extra doors could hold key to production green light. Everyone at GM is looking how to make viable business cases for it to happen.

 

 

I say...THIS is what Buick needs to get American asses into a Buick.

I say...when and if a 4 door Buick Avista coupe happens, then there wont be a need for Buick to try to CONVINCE Americans that this aint your father's Buick...the car itself will prove it...VISUALLY...and THAT my friends, is how it SHOULD be done to CONVINCE Americans that Buick is FINALLY not your Grand Father's and Father's Buick...

 

Why Grand Father?

Because I figure...Buick's last great hip car was in the mid 1960s...yeah...by 2016...the time gone by sure feels like it might have been your Great Grandfather's Buick...that Riviera Im talking about. (obviously we may exclude the Buick GS(X) and Buick GN(X). The Buick GNX was your Granddad's last great Buick! Because...the 1980s was also a heck of a long time ago!

 

While cool looking, this is DOA. No headroom in the back, the whole 4 door coupe thing is so over killed that is needs to die. CUV/SUVs are where it is at right now with cheap oil and 200+ mile EV's.

 

While lots to like about this, I have to agree that this would sell in very small numbers and cost more than it makes.

 

Next!

 

 

It wont sell in high numbers, it shouldnt sell in high numbers.

I view it as an emotion car to get American asses back in Buick showrooms with awe inspiring intentions...maybe they see Avista 4 door coupe and drive off in the the Regal, when the Regal actually gets redesigned properly like how the Malibu was re-designed. Because the Avista is an Alpha platformed car...which has the Camaro and the ATS to help amortize the platform, this Buick could not hurt to be built.

 

The A7, BMW 6 Series GC and MB CLS are too high in the market niche for this car to compete in...

 

I see the Avista in this range:

The VW CC sold quite a few units, VW let it rot on the vine.

The CLA sells like little hotcakes...

I dont know what the BMW 3/4 Series GC sales are...

 

I think a Buick Avista 4 door coupe could do very well against these Germans. SO I say build it! 

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I think its a 1976 Trans Am and a Dodge Challenger Hellcat.

 

If that is what you are asking.

 

If its a question for me to acknowledge coupes and sedans and stuff....both are 2 door coupes.  I think...

Because maybe that Challenger could be considered something else since its based on a sedan?

Or even the Trans Am....

 

Because I happen to know also that sedans and coupes have different levels of definitions. Especially going back into automotive history.

Hence my original pics....and now, Im just over thinking things... :dizzy:

Edited by oldshurst442
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Well the market is sedan driven for the most part as only a couple coupes hold much volume today like the Camaro and Mustang.

The coupe 4 door styling has proven popular as people if given a choice will always love the coupe styling but most will take the 4 doors to live with. I wish it were different but that is the reality of today's market.

To get a business case passed Buick stands the best chance with a Avista styled sedan. Head room can be adapted with lowering the rear seat. Leg room will be fine and no climbing into the back seat issue.

They would have a difficult time making a business case for this just due to the last CTS coupe. It was cool and dramatic but sales were tepid at best.

Lets face it most sedans can give a little in Ergo for styling but at the end of the day they still need to deliver utility. Today's market has changed and most people while they want a good looking car will take utility. How else did Chrysler sell so many crappy mini vans?

Real world consumers buy the most cars and they see them as an Appliance. You can give them some styling but they will limit you. The Benz and VW CC have proven there is a market for this. Buick could do the same easily.

Also factor in there is no Chevy Alpha sedan. At this price point a cool looking Buick sedan could fill in just fine. Some of this also will be based on timing for Cadillac to also take the ATS and CTS to the AT4-AT5 where they want them. The cars we have today are not the Johann cars and that is what is needed before we get a Buick. Start on the Buick now and it would be ready just after the Cadillac revamp.

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They should probably make a 4-door coupe SUV, as you watch that become the next hot segment.  And sadly I am being serious.  With crossovers outselling sedans, and having higher profit margins, I can see a lot of manufacturers having 5 or 6 crossovers and 3-4 sedans in their line up.  I am all for 3-box design sedans, but it seems like people like ovals and crossovers now.

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What Buick could do is turn the Regal into a 4-door coupe.  If they did it on Epsilon it would be cheap, maybe a little bit more on alpha.  But if they use the 2.5 liter and 2.0T engines they could keep cost down.  The Regal has weak sales anyway, and if it was a coupe like product it would be much different from the Malibu or LaCrosse, and more similar to the Passat CC and CLA.   Maybe they could even rename it Riviera, or call it Regal GC or just stick with Regal.  But I don't see Buick needing four, 4-door cars in an SUV market.

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They should probably make a 4-door coupe SUV, as you watch that become the next hot segment.  And sadly I am being serious.  With crossovers outselling sedans, and having higher profit margins, I can see a lot of manufacturers having 5 or 6 crossovers and 3-4 sedans in their line up.  I am all for 3-box design sedans, but it seems like people like ovals and crossovers now.

I dont know about that...

The only one that seems to sell well is the BMW X6.

The Infinity ones were let to rot on the vine...so Ill give that as success too...

 

But, the Acura one failed big time and well, the M-B version is still young, I guess its selling well due to the fact that many Eurotrash oriented  M-B snobs want one to rub it in the noses of the  BMW oriented Eurotrash neighbors of theirs...next year or so will really reveal if the M-B version will have conquered sales from lets say...the Escalade...because the Escalade is still THE top dog SUV in that price range, give or take a few thousand dollars...its still the same niche market.

 

SUVs for Buick need to be more traditional.

Edited by oldshurst442
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I think its a 1976 Trans Am and a Dodge Challenger Hellcat. If that is what you are asking.

 

If its a question for me to acknowledge coupes and sedans and stuff....both are 2 door coupes.  I think...

Because maybe that Challenger could be considered something else since its based on a sedan?

Or even the Trans Am....

 

Because I happen to know also that sedans and coupes have different levels of definitions. Especially going back into automotive history.

OEMs & coachbuilders defined the terms pretty clearly. There have been some deviations & creations along the way, but in most cases one only needs to examine the evidence & consult the 'dictionary'.

 

The cars in your sig are a 1. coupe and 2. a 2-door sedan. That answer has everything to do with how the bodies are configured and nothing to do with what the platform may underpin another model.

 

- - - - -

What's happening outside the dictionary to an alarming degree in recent years is the push of marketing departments. But very much like an occurrence I witnessed today on the job, marketers seldom understand what they are pedaling.

Edited by balthazar
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They should probably make a 4-door coupe SUV, as you watch that become the next hot segment.  And sadly I am being serious.  With crossovers outselling sedans, and having higher profit margins, I can see a lot of manufacturers having 5 or 6 crossovers and 3-4 sedans in their line up.  I am all for 3-box design sedans, but it seems like people like ovals and crossovers now.

I dont know about that...

The only one that seems to sell well is the BMW X6.

The Infinity ones were let to rot on the vine...so Ill give that as success too...

 

But, the Acura one failed big time and well, the M-B version is still young, I guess its selling well due to the fact that many Eurotrash oriented  M-B snobs want one to rub it in the noses of the  BMW oriented Eurotrash neighbors of theirs...next year or so will really reveal if the M-B version will have conquered sales from lets say...the Escalade...because the Escalade is still THE top dog SUV in that price range, give or take a few thousand dollars...its still the same niche market.

 

SUVs for Buick need to be more traditional.

 

M-B is launching a 2nd crossover coupe this year, and the GLE coupe doesn't remotely compete with the Escalade, as it is a mid-size vehicle.  The GLE coupe is within an inch in every dimension to an XT5.  I think the GLE coupe doesn't make sense when it is $10k more than a GLE with less cargo room and poor rear visability, but people still buy it, and it pure margin.

 

GMC has traditional, squarish crossovers in the showroom.  I don't think it so crazy that Buick adds a crossover coupe to the 3 they have, especially if the crossover coupe is Epsilon based and a size up from Envision, but smaller than Enclave obviously.   Mercedes put the CLS out 12 years ago and they didn't sell a whole lot, but then VW, Audi, BMW copied the idea, half the mid-size sedans adopted coupe-like styling.  The same could happen with crossovers, because most people aren't buying them for cargo hauling they are buying them because they have more status than a sedan.   Better for Buick to be on the front of the wave, rather than wait 10 years for Ford, Hyundai, Lincoln, Genesis, Infiniti, Volvo or whoever to all flood the market first.

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What's happening outside the dictionary to an alarming degree in recent years is the push of marketing departments. But very much like an occurrence I witnessed today on the job, marketers seldom understand what they are pedaling.

 

This....I agree with 100%.

 

The term 4 door coupe.

OK, we might not like the term, and maybe the term is  marketing BS and some of us might not even like the the looks, but its a style that at least breaks from the cookie cutter designs of mainstream sedans, even luxo sedans.

 

I love 4 door coupes. Not all of them.

I fell out of love with the Audi A7 very quickly.

It hasnt been a year that I enjoy the BMW 6 Series GC.

And the M-B CLS. I have lusted over this one since the very first one back in 2004.

 

The VW CC, its a sexy car, at least it looks different and better than comparable offerings with "proper" roof lines. And what a difference it is from its Passat brother.

Its sporty looking, with 4 doors.

Ditto with the BMW 3 Series and the 4 Series GC.

 

 

In the end though, it dont matter what OEMs, coach builders and marketing "geniuses" call the body styles, it ends up being semantic definitions anyway.

Sports car definition has changed dramatically since the term was first coined in the 1910s or 1920s...

 

Muscle car definition: that has many people tied in a knot.

No 4 doors allowed.

ONLY V8s allowed.

ONLY American cars allowed.

NO pony cars allowed.

NO fullsized cars allowed.

ONLY mid-sized intermediates allowed.

MUST be affordable.

NO cars before 1964 and after 1970...or 1971...or 1972... or 1973...(some muscle car purists cant even agree on what the cut-off year should be)

 

Yet...even in the USA, from years 1964-1974...many of those rules for muscle cars have been broken from the OEMs themselves.

An Olds 442 and a Buick GSX were EXPENSIVE.

A 1967 Pontiac GTO, technically the "first" muscle car nameplate was a HUGE car...nothing midsized about it...

An Olds Vista Cruiser could be optioned with the 442 455 engine...and the Vista Cruiser was a station wagon, yet Olds made sure you knew it was a muscle car.

Corvettes with the big blocks were marketed as muscle cars in the late 1960s as that market niche was the "in" market...

 

So...THOSE are the reasons why I dont mind the terminology "4 door coupe" and why they exist in the first place.

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Well the market is sedan driven for the most part as only a couple coupes hold much volume today like the Camaro and Mustang.

The coupe 4 door styling has proven popular as people if given a choice will always love the coupe styling but most will take the 4 doors to live with. I wish it were different but that is the reality of today's market.

To get a business case passed Buick stands the best chance with a Avista styled sedan. Head room can be adapted with lowering the rear seat. Leg room will be fine and no climbing into the back seat issue.

They would have a difficult time making a business case for this just due to the last CTS coupe. It was cool and dramatic but sales were tepid at best.

Lets face it most sedans can give a little in Ergo for styling but at the end of the day they still need to deliver utility. Today's market has changed and most people while they want a good looking car will take utility. How else did Chrysler sell so many crappy mini vans?

Real world consumers buy the most cars and they see them as an Appliance. You can give them some styling but they will limit you. The Benz and VW CC have proven there is a market for this. Buick could do the same easily.

Also factor in there is no Chevy Alpha sedan. At this price point a cool looking Buick sedan could fill in just fine. Some of this also will be based on timing for Cadillac to also take the ATS and CTS to the AT4-AT5 where they want them. The cars we have today are not the Johann cars and that is what is needed before we get a Buick. Start on the Buick now and it would be ready just after the Cadillac revamp.

 

I don't think it is that simple to just lower the rear seat. There would be a driveshaft down there and I can almost guarantee there are restrictions on how much space is necessary around it for safety or some crap.Lowering the rear seat would also force a laying down seating position as well. I'm not sure how comfortable that would be for a car like this. 

 

Now making something as gorgeous as this under the Buick name and leaving the top GM line(Cadillac) out of the mix seems like a tough sell because this won't be cheap if it's done correctly therefore stepping all over Cadillac's feet. That's just my opinion though...

Edited by ccap41
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My point is head room can be worked around. It would be the fuel tank more than the drive shaft as you can use a two piece drive shaft as most cars use now to lower the shaft.

Head room is going to be compromised but that is one thing most people can live with but climbing into a back seat over the driver seat with a door the size of the side of the car.

Styling often will compromise ergonomics but only some are more important than others to customers. The lower roof and compromised head room has proven to be one that is not as important.

Lets face it if this car is expected to sell 75K units it will do fine. If it were to take on the Camry at 350K units then it would suffer.

Higher prices and lower volume can help this but it still has to better than what coupe sales have shown. Also if head room is important GM still offers the Impala and the CTS or ATS with higher roofs.

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