A review of the 2017 Continental, chosen just because they have what appear to be decent images of the car

[ccap41]

8 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

At what point was I uncivil???????????????

Product.

 

And you don't think those opinions or surveys were based on the product?  Look brother, pretty much everybody here digs the car but we're also not oblivious to some of its shortcomings as well or things we would personally change(like the chrome to some of us).

Edited October 31, 2016 by ccap41

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

And you don't think those opinions or surveys were based on the product?  Look brother, pretty much everybody here digs the car but we're also not oblivious to some of its shortcomings as well or things we would personally change(like the chrome to some of us).

I asked him to detail the reasoning why, so that we can discuss.

Sorry, but an imaginative poll combined with his subjective preference on style......would hardly make a good discussion based on tangibles.

Sorry you can't see that or that I am being completely reasonable here.

[ccap41]

What poll or survey are you talking about to begin with?

I also think Lincoln should have released this car with the 9spd. I know GM apparently gets first dibs on it but they needed to release this with more than an older 6spd when everything it's trying to compete with has 7-9 ratios. I realize they shouldn't have made something specifically for this but maybe held off a year on the release and in that time try and cut some poundage out of it.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

And you don't think those opinions or surveys were based on the product?  Look brother, pretty much everybody here digs the car but we're also not oblivious to some of its shortcomings as well or things we would personally change(like the chrome to some of us).

Do you think I just made it up?

Horse said this when I asked him to qualify his reasoning.

"ask a hundred people to name a Luxury or upscale car they want to own, and 98 will name something like Acura, Buick, Lexus, or BMW before they will name Lincoln." 

[ccap41]

So it's a made up survey of his opinion.. so freakin' what? You get so overly defensive over people's opinions...

And I would believe/agree with him, minus Buick. I still don't hear people talking about Buick as a luxury car. When I've been around people and luxury cars come up Lincoln does not until I mention the new Conti. Lincoln doesn't have the greatest name right now. They're working on overcoming dressed up Fords for the past 10 or so years(which they're still doing but executing better).

[A Horse With No Name]

51 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Two almost completely different vehicles. One is aggressive and agile and one is a soft cruiser. In the ideal world both in the garage would be supreme!

I could actually see that.

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

So it's a made up survey of his opinion.. so freakin' what? You get so overly defensive over people's opinions...

And I would believe/agree with him, minus Buick. I still don't hear people talking about Buick as a luxury car. When I've been around people and luxury cars come up Lincoln does not until I mention the new Conti. Lincoln doesn't have the greatest name right now. They're working on overcoming dressed up Fords for the past 10 or so years(which they're still doing but executing better).

And I have already said in this thread that I wish them the best in this endeavor. I wish no harm on them. They just do not build vehicles that meet my personal biases of what a luxury sedan should be like.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

So it's a made up survey of his opinion.. so freakin' what? You get so overly defensive over people's opinions...

And I would believe/agree with him, minus Buick. I still don't hear people talking about Buick as a luxury car. When I've been around people and luxury cars come up Lincoln does not until I mention the new Conti. Lincoln doesn't have the greatest name right now. They're working on overcoming dressed up Fords for the past 10 or so years(which they're still doing but executing better).

So what....exactly!!!!

You are in the camp who made a big deal out it.

I simply stated that it's pointless to have a debate about what defines luxury at that point.

 

Short of all that, my opinions and counter opinions stand.

[A Horse With No Name]

13 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Do you think I just made it up?

Horse said this when I asked him to qualify his reasoning.

"ask a hundred people to name a Luxury or upscale car they want to own, and 98 will name something like Acura, Buick, Lexus, or BMW before they will name Lincoln." 

And this is my perception of Lincoln's place in the market. If you would like to quote marketing surveys that disprove this, go ahead, you have an infinite amount of allowable replies in this thread.

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

So it's a made up survey of his opinion.. so freakin' what? You get so overly defensive over people's opinions...

And I would believe/agree with him, minus Buick. I still don't hear people talking about Buick as a luxury car. When I've been around people and luxury cars come up Lincoln does not until I mention the new Conti. Lincoln doesn't have the greatest name right now. They're working on overcoming dressed up Fords for the past 10 or so years(which they're still doing but executing better).

Buick is not a luxury car. It is a mid priced car for middle class people. I do not really consider it an aspiration brand either in many ways.

1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

 

I simply stated that it's pointless to have a debate about what defines luxury at that point.

We have very different opinions of luxury. So what? Even if every one of us went out and bought a Conti the day they hit Lincoln showrooms...Lincoln would still have far more cars destroyed in transit to dealers than sold to C and G members.

I do not expect us all to like the same things or agree on them. I would love to own a new Miata,  Hardly think that is a car Wings would want to own. Nor would I expect him to.

However, I think part of Luxury is brand perception and any sane person, including a salesman or sales manager in Lincoln dealership floor would say that Lincoln has a lot of work to do in that regard.

[ccap41]

7 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

So what....exactly!!!!

You are in the camp who made a big deal out it.

I simply stated that it's pointless to have a debate about what defines luxury at that point.

 

Short of all that, my opinions and counter opinions stand.

You need to learn how to word things differently then because you came off as a prick and I'm not the only one who noticed it. That's all I'll say.

Edited October 31, 2016 by ccap41

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

You need to learn how to word things differently then. That's all I'll say.

At the same time, I once again will state that I admire his passion.  Tired of people who are not passionate about cars....and wings is very definitely passionate about cars!

Edited October 31, 2016 by A Horse With No Name
capitalization.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

I really don’t get all the dramatics in this thread.

Horse, I legitimately asked your opinion of what makes one brand more luxurious than the other, and you gave me your clear reply…referencing polls that don’t exist and your subjective opinion.   That’s fine. I am not contesting anything, am I???  You have your opinions, I have mine.  But somehow, my opinions rubs peoples rhubarb. LOL

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

 

 

I really don’t get all the dramatics in this thread.

 

Horse, I legitimately asked your opinion of what makes one brand more luxurious than the other, and you gave me your clear reply…referencing polls that don’t exist and your subjective opinion.   That’s fine. I am not contesting anything, am I???  You have your opinions, I have mine.  But somehow, my opinions rubs peoples rhubarb. LOL

 

...and I hope that you are round here a long damned time to rub our rhubarb....although the Conti does come with massaging seats so if I wanted to get good and comfortable....

...keep being passionate bro.....regardless of what I or anyone else here tells you.

My point is that merely Lincoln still has more work to do in terms of a luxury car image.  That in my mind is not a negative. I still have serious work to do at being a better husband and I have been happily married for 28 years.

Now if putting my laundry away and mowing the yard when I finally get home at 7 tonight after picking my 15 year old daughter up from play practice was as fun as arguing about cars on the internet....I might have a much easier time.

But yes, if I were concerned with perception and wanting to clearly own a Luxury brand...I would have concerns in buying a Lincoln.

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, Wings4Life said:

 

 

I just got criticized for being a biased product fan…..by casa, the man who actually got a Cadillac tattoo.

 

He probably does not even understand the irony, so there is no sense in debating him.

 

 

 

Oh.. I'm biased as a mofo.. but I have on billions of occasions admitted when the proper level car was a better one.. in some way to a GM one. For instance I had no issue admitting that the S-Class.. above the S550 was a car superior to the CT6 Platinum 3.0LTT.  I had no issue admitting that the 911 Turbo beat the shit out of a stock Stingray.. but there is some logic to that.. and even a redeemer.. as the Stingray is not a competitor to the 911 Turbo, the Z06 is.. and boy oh boy would that 911 have some competition. 

 

Its about tiers. The Continental is a car that I wouldn't even remotely consider to replace my Impala, let alone its XTS (or LaX) brethren. Good lord not a CT6. The CT6 is.. absolutely is.. an alternative to the S-Class, 7series, and A8  in their most common forms, but even I would not be so foolish as to say a CT6 was an alternative to the S63AMG or S8. U on the other hand are an idiot.. and would try and make a case for how a effin Continental.. LMFAO.. is a competitor to any of those cars. Hell U are so clouded U'd suggest that a Bentley Continental owner would be fine with a Lincoln Continental.  

[A Horse With No Name]

...and he does as I said admit his bias. Nothing wrong with that. 

People buy cars for different reasons though. Were I just to want a fun weekend car, the cost of maintenance and ownership is multiple orders of magnitude on a stock base Stingray than a 911 turbo.

More concerned that people find cars that are a good match for them.

Agree on the Impala being one hell of a ride.

[Cmicasa the Great]

and to anyone who doesn't kno.. this is one of my tats on my shoulder

 

[ccap41]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 11:03 AM, Wings4Life said:

First few good pics and excessive chrome?

Where do you guys get these opinions.

 

The gazillion production pictures I have seen so far, are very flattering and often beautiful.

And the amount of chrome is minimalist and tastefully done.

THIS is what started the "dramatic"-ness. They stated their opinion and instead of saying something a long the lines of, "I don't think there is too much chrome, I think it was done tastefully." you essentially challenge somebody's opinion with an opinion. WTF? Meaning, your opinion means more and holds more value than anybody else's.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

I have forever contested that we all have a bias, but most will never admit it and many actually believe themselves to be 100% objective thinkers with no bias influence, whatsoever. Ridiculous, I know.

 

I have also always said, embrace your bias. I do. Clearly.

So does casa, clearly.  But he is 100% wrong if he thinks he is more objective that me. 

I was raised a GM kid and have driven now as many Ford vehicles as I have GM.  I had 3 Ford’s a GM and mopar in the family until just a few months ago, and now replaced the GM with another mopar. I have defended GM through the most difficult times, contrary to some of my recent arguments and contrary opinions. I may actually replace a Fusion with a Cruze next year, as I still get GM employee discount. 

 

So I don’t care how anyone else wants to define me, but the day someone with a GM tattoo thinks he is more objective, sorry, I just have to chuckle.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

23 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

THIS is what started the "dramatic"-ness. They stated their opinion and instead of saying something a long the lines of, "I don't think there is too much chrome, I think it was done tastefully." you essentially challenge somebody's opinion with an opinion. WTF? Meaning, your opinion means more and holds more value than anybody else's.

 

I did not agree with their opinion.

Using your own words, so what?

 

Using my words, I was commensurate with my response.

[ccap41]

And you act like a douche when you disagree with people. Like I said, and I should have stopped there like I said I would, you need to word things differently because you come off as a dick.

Continental: Good car. Still doesn't truly compete with the Germans though.

1 hour ago, Wings4Life said:

I really don’t get all the dramatics in this thread.

You "asked" I answered. Use me own words "against" me if you feel like that justifies your over-the-top reactions to people not thinking Lincoln is quite on the level of a true luxury automaker yet.

[FAPTurbo]

the word 'luxury' has become as meaningless as the word 'awesome,' due to companies unashamedly reaching for top-shelf words to describe products. the key is worldwide brand recognition and synonymity with luxury throughout modern history. 

the continental is luxurious, but it's not prestigious. Rolls is prestigious. BMW is prestigious. Mercedes is prestigious. buick isn't and neither is lincoln. 

tell a tuareg you own a BMW and he'll swoon. tell him you own a 'link in-continental' and he'll think you're having urinary problems. 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, bigpoolog said:

the word 'luxury' has become as meaningless as the word 'awesome.' due to companies unashamedly reaching for top-shelf words to describe products. the key is worldwide brand recognition and association with luxury. 

the continental is luxurious, but it's not prestigious. Rolls is prestigious. BMW is prestigious. Mercedes is prestigious. buick isn't and neither is lincoln. 

tell a tuareg you own a BMW and he'll swoon. tell him you own a 'link in-continental' and he'll think you're having urinary problems. 

In many ways, this.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

And you act like a douche when you disagree with people. Like I said, and I should have stopped there like I said I would, you need to word things differently because you come off as a dick.

Continental: Good car. Still doesn't truly compete with the Germans though.

You "asked" I answered. Use me own words "against" me if you feel like that justifies your over-the-top reactions to people not thinking Lincoln is quite on the level of a true luxury automaker yet.

More insults.

Wow. You really take these forums seriously.

[David]

So the Black Label Conti

Or the Carbon Black CTS-V

Things to love about both, issues to shake a head at for both.

Lincoln needs a true black edition or black label that allows you to have black chrome to fully black it all out.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

So the Black Label Conti

Or the Carbon Black CTS-V

Things to love about both, issues to shake a head at for both.

Again with the golden age thing...nice to see the home team taking a good swing when they are up at bat!

Wonder what they are saying in Osaka and Stuttgart...

[David]

9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Again with the golden age thing...nice to see the home team taking a good swing when they are up at bat!

Wonder what they are saying in Osaka and Stuttgart...

 Golden Age thing? 

I know I am 48 years old, but I am drawing a blank on this comment?

[A Horse With No Name]

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

 Golden Age thing? 

I know I am 48 years old, but I am drawing a blank on this comment?

My comment earlier to Cmicassa that we are living in an automotive go0lden age of sorts.

[FAPTurbo]

YOU'RE ALL TALKING GOLDEN AGE BUT IGNORING THE PEE JOKE WTF IS WRONG WITH EVERYONE

23 minutes ago, bigpoolog said:

tell a tuareg you own a BMW and he'll swoon. tell him you own a 'link in-continental' and he'll think you're having urinary problems. 

 

[David]

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

My comment earlier to Cmicassa that we are living in an automotive go0lden age of sorts.

Got it  I would agree that we are in a final Golden age for Petro powered auto's. The next age is going to be the Hybrid / EV one.

1 minute ago, bigpoolog said:

YOU'RE ALL TALKING GOLDEN AGE BUT IGNORING THE PEE JOKE WTF IS WRONG WITH EVERYONE

 

But But But, Pee jokes are not as funny as a good O'l FART Joke!

 

[Intrepidation]

The best thing about the car is the front seats.

[Drew Dowdell]

The author of the article is a personal friend of mine and he actually splits an AirBnB with William and I during the Detroit Auto Show.... I'll send on your regards for his article. 

3 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

I have proudly admitted my bias for the last decade, and most know that.

 

 

The problem is that you don't allow anyone to have a negative opinion on something subjective like appearance of any FoMoCo product. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The author of the article is a personal friend of mine and he actually splits an AirBnB with William and I during the Detroit Auto Show.... I'll send on your regards for his article. 

The problem is that you don't allow anyone to have a negative opinion on something subjective like appearance of any FoMoCo product. 

Never?

Strong word.

 

But OK, fair enough, lets evaluate my contested opinions.

 

I did not agree that there are few flattering pictures of the Conti.

Do you?

 

I also did not agree that there is excessive chrome.

Do you?

 

I also did not agree that Lincoln is less luxury than Buick and Acura.

Where do you stand?

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

So the Black Label Conti

Or the Carbon Black CTS-V

Things to love about both, issues to shake a head at for both.

Lincoln needs a true black edition or black label that allows you to have black chrome to fully black it all out.

Is that a serious question..?

640hp or 400hp? V8 or V6?

[Drew Dowdell]

15 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Never?Strong word.

But OK, fair enough, lets evaluate my contested opinions.

I did not agree that there are few flattering pictures of the Conti.

Do you?

I also did not agree that there is excessive chrome.

Do you?

I also did not agree that Lincoln is less luxury than Buick and Acura.

Where do you stand?

 

I would agree that many of the pictures out there are less than flattering of the Continental.  I believe I even mentioned back in Detroit that the Continental was substantially better looking in person than the pictures.  Some cars that look good are difficult to photograph well, rarely is the reverse the case without photo manipulation, but it does happen (the Volvo XC90 looks great either way, but looks better in photographs than in person).  I do think Zac's photos are some of the more flattering photos I have seen yet.

I wouldn't say there is excessive chrome... nor would I say that I eat an excessive amount of chocolate chip cookies.... but maybe just a tiny bit too much. If I were Lincoln's design lead, I'd probably drop the chrome from the bottom of the doors and offer a blacked out grille insert while keeping the ring and emblem chrome.  Some people like chrome, some people like none. 

Aside from NSX which really isn't luxury in the traditional sense aside from the fact that it is a luxury to own one, I'd agree with you here.  I'd say that Buick comes closer than Acura these days because I really hate what Acura has done with their interiors.  The Navigator I feel is too far behind the times to really count at the moment, but that is being rectified soon I believe. 

[ccap41]

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I even mentioned back in Detroit that the Continental was substantially better looking in person than the pictures.

I feel the same way about it when I saw it at the STL auto show. It looked so much better with more of a presence in person. Not that it doesn't look good in pictures.. well, you know what I mean.

[A Horse With No Name]

10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I would agree that many of the pictures out there are less than flattering of the Continental.  I believe I even mentioned back in Detroit that the Continental was substantially better looking in person than the pictures.  Some cars that look good are difficult to photograph well, rarely is the reverse the case without photo manipulation, but it does happen (the Volvo XC90 looks great either way, but looks better in photographs than in person).  I do think Zac's photos are some of the more flattering photos I have seen yet.

I wouldn't say there is excessive chrome... nor would I say that I eat an excessive amount of chocolate chip cookies.... but maybe just a tiny bit too much. If I were Lincoln's design lead, I'd probably drop the chrome from the bottom of the doors and offer a blacked out grille insert while keeping the ring and emblem chrome.  Some people like chrome, some people like none. 

Aside from NSX which really isn't luxury in the traditional sense aside from the fact that it is a luxury to own one, I'd agree with you here.  I'd say that Buick comes closer than Acura these days because I really hate what Acura has done with their interiors.  The Navigator I feel is too far behind the times to really count at the moment, but that is being rectified soon I believe. 

Agree on Acura interiors.

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I feel the same way about it when I saw it at the STL auto show. It looked so much better with more of a presence in person. Not that it doesn't look good in pictures.. well, you know what I mean.

Getting good photographs of cars is an art, looking forward to seeing the Conti in person.

[David]

Agree with Drew on the comments about the Chrome bits on the car. I would like a Monochromatic option for this auto plus a Mid chrome option. That way you can cover the market with a wider option of what people like.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Drew,

thanks for the response.  We agree and disagree on some opinions.

 

And regarding your remark that I "never let anyone have a negative opinion about Lincoln"

You are so wrong. If that were true, I would be posting a heck of a lot more just to keep up with all the negativity..

[Drew Dowdell]

6 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

Drew,

thanks for the response.  We agree and disagree on some opinions.

 

And regarding your remark that I "never let anyone have a negative opinion about Lincoln"

You are so wrong. If that were true, I would be posting a heck of a lot more just to keep up with all the negativity..

This is the remark I took issue with:

 

[oldshurst442]

10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This is the remark I took issue with:

So did I.

I know the ship has sailed and Im tuning in late...sorry about that. But I felt I needed to explain myself too...

 

Anyhoo..

@A Horse With No Name  and @Drew Dowdell

About the NSX....sure its low volume and sure Acura has lost a lot in terms of luxury and perception...

But...Im also sure the NSX is built to the highest of standards that Acura (Honda) is capable of....

And...as much as Acura has fallen from the horse, they havent fallen from grace. Unlike Lincoln.

And yeah, the NSX is a low volume car, Acura could build a car like that and it well sell every last one of them, but LIncoln, cant do that as of now...

So...with that being said...please, dont say that Acura aint premier lux....and yeah, above Lincoln..even with the Continental in the show room...

 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

Acura is not premium like BMW, Cadillac, Audi and Benz.  Sit in an ILX or TLX after sitting in a Cadillac or Audi. The Acura pretty much feels like a tin can.

Maybe you can invent automotive calculous of sorts to make them a premium brand, but Acura really has a lot of work to do.

Plus, the MKX and MKT are probably nicer than the Acura products.  I have gone on record saying that the Lexus SUV lineup needs help and is dated in the large SUV thread.  The Acura lineup needs help also. The Asian car makers have been riding on reputation far too long when it comes to luxury SUV products.

[A Horse With No Name]

Plus one has to ask the question as to how many premier supercars a brand should have to have.  Ford has the GT.  Lexus built the low production IFA, Cadillac built V16 wonders in the thirties, Audi builds the R8 and has a ton of other in family supercars via Bugatti and Porsche, and Benz has a ton of AMG oddities. Don't know that it is really fair to say that Audi is more of a premium brand because of its in group association with Porsche and Bugatti.

But it is fair to say they are premium because of the R8 combined with a main line luxury name plate that is recognized as such.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This is the remark I took issue with:

 

I love how you left out the most important word in my quote....."opinions"

I simply asked where their opinions came from, because I did not agree with them.  I really, honestly don't see what all the drama is about. Agree to disagree, and be done with it.  

Jeez, you would think I pissed in people's cornflakes today.

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

27 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

I love how you left out the most important word in my quote....."opinions"

I simply asked where their opinions came from, because I did not agree with them.  I really, honestly don't see what all the drama is about. Agree to disagree, and be done with it.  

Jeez, you would think I pissed in people's cornflakes today.

 

 

I didn't leave out anything. It's a link to your comment and it cuts off words depending on your screen size.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

^

ahhhh.  Good to know.

 

Still......

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Acura is not premium like BMW, Cadillac, Audi and Benz.  Sit in an ILX or TLX after sitting in a Cadillac or Audi. The Acura pretty much feels like a tin can.

Maybe you can invent automotive calculous of sorts to make them a premium brand, but Acura really has a lot of work to do.

Plus, the MKX and MKT are probably nicer than the Acura products.  I have gone on record saying that the Lexus SUV lineup needs help and is dated in the large SUV thread.  The Acura lineup needs help also. The Asian car makers have been riding on reputation far too long when it comes to luxury SUV products.

I misled you with my definition of premium lux.

I meant to say mid level lux.

I agree with you in saying that Acura is not "premium".

Ill confuse the situation a tad further...

The low end BMW and Audi stuff aint exactly premium either. More like mainstream. Is it fair to judge Acura that harshly?

While I agree that Acura has lost its way, but interior quality has not really suffered as much as you and Drew say it has.

I think we think Acura's interior quality has suffered because:

1. Cadillac, Buick and Chevy's interior along with Ford's and Lincoln's interior has improved all that much to where Acura''s is...

2. Acura's interiors where elegant in the 1990s. From 2008 or so, they have become clunky. They are solidly built, but they are clunky. Clunky does not exude luxury.

I agree with the TLX. I HATE THAT INTERIOR. I prefer my 2012 TL's interior better. And like I said, Acura aint on the same level as Audi. Audi is the best in the business, but...as much as I HATE the TLX's interior, it still is solid, very solid for the TLX's price point. Remember, the TLX base's price point is Honda Accord V6 territory. That would be Impala LTZ territory. The Impala is awesome, but Impala aint premium either. There are flaws to its interior too, if compared to an Audi A6....

Which brings us to Lincoln. The MKZ fits into this discussion.

Acura TLX SH-AWD with PAWS...or Lincoln MKZ...

One car is kinda of an Accord V6 with SH-AWD and PAWS while the other is kinda of a Ford Fusion Titanium/Mondeo Vignale with a V6 ecoboost and AWD...

Each have strengths and weaknesses compared to each other...

For a person to straight up and laugh at Acura when imposing HIS OWN BIASED opinion on Lincoln while praising Lincoln and denouncing Acura is not very genuine...

And while Acura has a long way to go to get back to respectability, they have an EASIER time to get their than Lincoln. As it was said before....luxury is a whored up word nowadays, PUBLIC PERCEPTION is the key...and Acura has not soiled its brand half as bad as Lincoln has....

Put it another way.

The Acura NSX will pave the way for other Acura models to follow. And if Acura finds its mojo as Honda has, the road to recovery will be a FASTER ONE than Lincoln's.

The Continental will pave the way for other Lincoln models to follow. And if Lincoln finds its mojo as Ford has, the road to recovery will be a LONGER AND SLOWER one than Acura's...

In MY OWN REALITY, I see Lincoln AT AN EQUAL FOOTING AS ACURA. Not superior or inferior.

As far as Buick goes...as of 2016, Buick may be a tad inferior as Buick has no real halo car to identify itself to. In 2016/2017, Lincoln has the Continental while Acura has the NSX.

In 2015 though, Buick is on an EQUAL FOOTING as LINCOLN OR ACURA.

But...many more models to come for Buick and I have a feeling the Avenir trim level will be Buick's halo identity. Not really a car but a trim level. Different approach but just as equally effective.

Lincoln and Acura will have to hit homeruns with every other car they make after the Continental and NSX to re-polish their image,  while Buick just has to continue on the same path they are on while just adding the Avenir trim package on their models. It seems like Buick has 1 leg up on its Lincoln and Acura rivals as they know what their identity is as of now and people have already warmed up to that image...Lincoln and Acura still have some convincing to do...

Of course that is just my opinion.

 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Plus one has to ask the question as to how many premier supercars a brand should have to have.  Ford has the GT.  Lexus built the low production IFA, Cadillac built V16 wonders in the thirties, Audi builds the R8 and has a ton of other in family supercars via Bugatti and Porsche, and Benz has a ton of AMG oddities. Don't know that it is really fair to say that Audi is more of a premium brand because of its in group association with Porsche and Bugatti.

But it is fair to say they are premium because of the R8 combined with a main line luxury name plate that is recognized as such.

Well. Lets take a looksie at GM.

Chevy has the Vette. Should Cadillac NOT get a supercar of some sorts just because Chevy has one. Granted, timing has to be 100% perfect for the absolutely right supercar for Cadillac to hit the showrooms once other more vital products are made for Cadillac, but Cadillac will need one eventually.

Lets take a look at Volkswagen Automotive Group.

Porsche. Their whole line-up is a supercar of some sort. Sure 4 door cars and SUVs, but those are their for the funding of said supercars.

Audi...the R8...based on Lamborghini parts but its pure Audi in form and function and identity.

Lamborghini. Their whole line-up is a supercar of some sort.

All three brands actually compete with one another in races and in sales...

Then there is Bugatti...

So...I dont know if its fair to say that a brand is top tier luxury because of these supercars, but it helps with public perception at multiple levels.

Price tag. High price tag equals luxury.

Technology. High technology equals luxury.

Add both together and you get people lusting after your product line-up from top to bottom.

Of course there are other factors. Marketing is a HUGE one. So yeah. I think its fair.

PS: A halo car need not be a supercar.

The Lincoln Continental could be that special halo car that transforms Lincoln the way the 1st generation NSX did for Acura. Is the Continental and the new NSX as special as the original NSX was?

HMMMM...that is the question...

[Drew Dowdell]

Sorry, I really feel that Acura's ship has sailed on interior quality. The RLX is a basket case that even an Accord would be embarrassed by. It's outclassed by the MKZ much less the Continental.  RDX v. MKC goes to Lincoln. Same with MDX v. MKX. The MDX feels more like a Pilot rebadge than ever.

The TLX is the lone bright(er) spot in the Acura lineup but even then the MKZ can be optioned up nicer and so can the Lacrosse.

I'm basing this purely on interiors btw. 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Sorry, I really feel that Acura's ship has sailed on interior quality. The RLX is a basket case that even an Accord would be embarrassed by. It's outclassed by the MKZ much less the Continental.  RDX v. MKC goes to Lincoln. Same with MDX v. MKX. The MDX feels more like a Pilot rebadge than ever.

The TLX is the lone bright(er) spot in the Acura lineup but even then the MKZ can be optioned up nicer and so can the Lacrosse.

I'm basing this purely on interiors btw. 

You are absolutely right Drew....but these models and time period are about the time where Acura has been stumbling...

Mid 2000s, and the interiors of these predecessor models are just eons ahead of GM and FoMoCo of the same time period...like I said, GM and FoMoCo just EQUALIZED and perhaps surpasses Acura's interior. Not that Acura failed as much as GM and FoMoCo caught up and surpassed...

Acura also lost its direction. They lost their sporty intentions...just like Honda...Killing the Integra while just badge engineering the Civic into a leather clad Civic while at the same time engineering the Civic as a cheap appliance hurt Honda and Acura.

And then...

Losing out somewhat on this model. It became an old fogey's ride.

It was an excellent ride. Luxurious and....old fogeyish...

But redeeming themselves with this one:

But losing big time with the super beak TL. I happen to love the super beak.

But many dont.

I feel like many see Acura's failure in quality is not because of quality...but for aesthetics...

Like I said, Acura's super beak years also coincide with clunky interiors...both do not bode well for perception.

2008 Acura TL interior. Like the Blue TL above.

Quite elegant that looks good to the eye 8 years later...

2009 super beak TL interior.

Kinda the same style...but bulky and clunky....like the super beak...

The 2008 Cadillac CTS interior was elegantly done. Cheap though. It rattled. It was loose. No Acura interior to date rattles...ever.

 

[oldshurst442]

2002 TL interior

1st gen CTS interior.

Cheap....

 

Like I said, Acura's interiors from 1990 to 2008 were EONS ahead of the Detroit 3.

Like I said, GM and FoMoCo have finally caught up and possibly surpassed Acura, but its not as if Acura stooped as low as that 1st Gen CTS...I dont think Acura EVER offered a cheap interior like that in its cars and that includes the Integra and all other badge engineered Civics...

[Drew Dowdell]

Check out the current RLX and new MDX in person then. The pictures may seem fine, but really examine the materials and build quality.... You'll see what I'm talking about.