Mercedez Benz News Mercedes-AMG to Launch 53 Line Next Year

[David]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Isn't the whole electric turbocharger there to get rid of lag completely? 

Incorporating all of those has nothing to do with selling an EV. Not sure if you're just trying to plug EVs into everything but that has nothing to do with this vehicle. 

Do you just not like Inline 6's? Because it isn't the same solution as there hasn't been one engine with all of the technology wrapped into one package. Yes, as Drew has said none of it is brand new stuff but it is new to incorporate it into one engine. 

Love Inline 6 engines, fell in love with them with the Jeep Eliminator Pickup that I always wanted.

In regards to Electric Turbo, when not needed the Turbo's impeller spins at 10,000 rpm for minimal hesitation or lag in engine response from pumping air/fuel mixture into the engine. This way you minimize the lag when the driver presses the accelerator. Yet unlike a supercharger that is always pumping in gas/air mixture, the turbo still has lag, though minimal to most people that cannot tell the difference.

The point I am making is SMK talks about HP/Torque, new 48 volt electrical system and comes across as if it is the holy grail of auto powertrains.

Yet we have seen all this tech for a while now in various forms that get it done without having every single one of them on a single engine. Granted MB is the first that I know of to have them all on one engine.

Does that make it better or best? No not necessarily and why I pointed to the fact that their compliance EV auto not only sells terrible but is now a dead product. If they build the best, then why have they not offered a true competitor to Tesla like GM did?

If the Inline 6 was so superior, then why did they dump it for a V6 and why are they now like a chef that really does not know how to cook dumping everything into the pot with what clearly to me and others seems to be overkill on a powertrain with only equaling their current engine output rather than beating it soundly.

I can get from a business standpoint the simplification of all V engines or all Inline engines to minimize cost of tooling and building when you just have to drop 2 or 4 cylinders so you have inline 4, 6, 8 engines.

I get this, but SMK knocks everyone else when they use a family of engines across product lines and then ignores or as has been stated moves the goalposts in regards to MB doing the exact same thing across their product lines.

End result is I hope MB continues their success, but this is not a ground breaking engine or superior to what others are doing and one does have to question this over complication of a powertrain or as I have stated, the cook throwing everything into the pot and hoping something good comes out.

So far, it seems on par with everyone else out there that is building a much simpler engine and for MB, many expect more.

 

 

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, dfelt said:

If the Inline 6 was so superior, then why did they dump it for a V6

Probably the same reason they're moving to the I6 configuration. Back then, V8's sold in most every model so a modular design there paid off, economies of scale with V8's. Now that V8's are dying and everything is downsizing a practical move is to move their bulk engines to being modular with each other. Hence, I6-I3. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The reason it got dumped was packaging.  I6 engines are tall and as such they reach maximum displacement for a given engine bay a lot sooner than a V engine.   Where an old I6 might have topped out around 3.5 liters with no room to grow, V engines could get larger even up to including V8s and V10s. 

Add to that European pedestrian hood crush standards and there was no way MB was going to be able to keep up with the power race.  BMW did it with turbochargers and moving to 4-cylinders.

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, dfelt said:

Yet like flip flopping fish you state this is world best with HP and Torque and now you say we do not know anything. So which is it, world best which seems not to be, marketing BS to just confuse the lemmings buying their products or honestly just pushing the agenda of MB makes best of everything?

Well.......

We know what the engine does in the Euro S-class, but that isn't an AMG car either.  And I think the overall NVH, gas mileage, power output, etc, all together will make it the best 6 cylinder out there.  Aside from the Mercedes-AMG 1.6 liter bi-turbo V6 with 750 hp.

[ccap41]

These fake AMG cars aren't real AMG cars either. They're watering down the brand with that crap. 

Ehhh I think it is a bit of a stretch saying it is THE BEST 6 out there. If you're just talking straight numbers, which it appears so if you're claiming the 1.6 in the hyper car is the best, then the Ford GT's needs to be up there along with the Raptor/Navigator's. That is if you're just talking horsepower and torque, which you likely are. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by ccap41

[ccap41]

I mean the ZJ220 had a twin turbo V6 back in the 90's making 542hp.. That's a great reason why you looking strightly at output isn't always good because your I6 Mercedes engines will take a back seat to a nearly 30 year old car.

[Robert Hall]

What's a ZJ220? 

[oldshurst442]

ZJ220.

As in Jaguar ZJ220. Production from 1992-1994.

The concept car and promise was for it to be a 12 cylinder. Many deposits for it. When Jaguar decided for it to be a Twin Turbo V6, many of those deposits were canceled.

Pretty little thing. From the front....

 Not so pretty from the back. In my opinion.

 

[Robert Hall]

Ahh, the XJ220.   A very low volume supercar with a handbuilt engine.  Not really comparable to M-B's production engines.  (the only ZJ I know was the first gen Grand Cherokee, and I know there was no 220 variation..)

Edited December 19, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[oldshurst442]

11 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Ahh, the XJ220.   A very low volume supercar with a handbuilt engine.  Not really comparable to M-B's production engines. 

Very low volume. 224 built. Even a Buick Grand National GNX had more production numbers than that of an XJ220. 

Handbuilt...could it be a moot point as AMG engines are handbuilt?  Either way, your point will always be valid.  The inline 6 from Mercedes is intended to be mass produced and to be used in a plethora of vehicles. 

The inline 6 from Mercedes would be akin to the 3.8 liter V6 from Buick or the ecoboosted 3.5 from Ford.  Designed to be mass produced to be used in all sorts of cars, but a special few would be made into something special and put into special halo cars...

Edited December 19, 2017 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Handbuilt...could it be a moot point as AMG engines are handbuilt?  Either way, your point will always be valid.  The inline 6 from Mercedes is intended to be mass produced and to be used in a plethora of vehicles.  

AMGs are mass produced today, though..they build a lot more than 224.  As far as Mercedes last inline 6, it was fairly old when they replaced them in the 90s..they did have some AMG and Brabus variations.    My sister had a '91 300CE w/ the 3.0 I6...not a particularly fast car, but the engine was very smooth and liked to rev.  

[smk4565]

Bottom line is in a couple years time, ever car magazine will compere the Mercedes E-class or GLE or GLS450, C43 AMG or whatever, to the competitors from Lexus, Cadillac, Jaguar, Audi and BMW, and they will all knock the V6s for how they aren't as refined, and say how the BMW doesn't have the fuel economy of the Benz. 

[Robert Hall]

Yes, standard script.  

[Drew Dowdell]

It makes me wonder if the Americans should consider going back to I6 engines and add some boost. They make great truck engines too because they have more journal bearings than a V6 which makes them naturally more durable. In naturally aspirated form, they tend to have better torque delivery than a V, but that's not a hard rule.

I'd not mind a 3.5 boosted I6 in a Silverado.

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Bottom line is in a couple years time, ever car magazine will compere the Mercedes E-class or GLE or GLS450, C43 AMG or whatever, to the competitors from Lexus, Cadillac, Jaguar, Audi and BMW, and they will all knock the V6s for how they aren't as refined, and say how the BMW doesn't have the fuel economy of the Benz. 

I mean, why does C&D or Motortrend hire writers... They just reprint the same review each year and change the snark.

[Robert Hall]

Aren't inline 6s generally too wide for transverse use?  I assume one reason auto makers like V6s is they can work with north-south and transverse configurations.  GM had the Atlas inline engines for trucks and SUVs in the 00's but they are gone...

Edited December 19, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Aren't inline 6s generally too wide for FWD use?  I assume one reason American car makers like V6s is they can work with north-south and transverse configurations.  GM had the Atlas inline engines for trucks and SUVs in the 00's but they are gone...

V6 is dying in Mass market cars anyway, so that's less of a consideration anymore. A RWD only I6 could be useful for Cadillac, Camaro, trucks and the RWD SUVs.

The FWD 3.6 V6 can soldier on in the Impala, Lacrosse, Regal, and big crossovers. XTS is dying. Nothing else FWD still uses it. If Impala and Lacrosse go away... Well....

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Ahh, the XJ220.   A very low volume supercar with a handbuilt engine.  Not really comparable to M-B's production engines.  (the only ZJ I know was the first gen Grand Cherokee, and I know there was no 220 variation..)

Yeah, my bad on the typing.. 'z' and 'x' are right next to each other... *face palm*

And I agree. They shouldn't be compared but some like to look strictly at output and say one is superior to the other and this XJ220 has a higher output V6 than the new Mercedes sixes. 

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Bottom line is in a couple years time, ever car magazine will compere the Mercedes E-class or GLE or GLS450, C43 AMG or whatever, to the competitors from Lexus, Cadillac, Jaguar, Audi and BMW, and they will all knock the V6s for how they aren't as refined, and say how the BMW doesn't have the fuel economy of the Benz. 

I wouldn't expect anything else from you. 

[oldshurst442]

I just realized I did the same thing...

X...J220

 

If a Camaro does  indeed get an inline 6 sometime in the future...

IF is all Im saying....

What a strange turn of events it would be...

I think there is more of a chance it get the Bolt battery technology and powetrain, but that would be for another conversation elsewhere in this website...

[Robert Hall]

I do like the thought of the return of inline 6s..always liked the ones I've driven and owned. 

[balthazar]

I've owned 2 different I-6s; nothing to write home about as far as smoothness went, and no better than V6s in the driveway.
I'm not against them per say, but I want the reason behind the move to be clear : to cut costs.