New York 2018: 2019 Cadillac CT6 V-Sport Packs 550 Horsepower V8: Comments

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

How does a RWD XT5 translate to more CT5/S/6 sales?

From what I gather...there wont be any "re-badged" Chevy stigma...   

(I cant believe Im still reading trolly responses like that in 2018...)

 

 

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

From what I gather...there wont be any "re-badged" Chevy stigma...   

(I cant believe Im still reading trolly responses like that in 2018...)

 

 

Maybe a RWD/AWD XT5 would be taken more seriously by the press and favorably compared to BMW and MB, rather than just being a lowly FWD/AWD generic lease appliance like the Lexus LX, Lincoln MKX, etc...

Edited March 22, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

8 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

because a CTS was NEVER an Impala based car....EVER...

never looked like the CTS could even BE an Impala.

 

 

So...either these guys you bumped into are trolls...much like yourself, or just cant stand Cadillac and/or GM and NOTHING that Cadillac and/or GM will do will EVER change that. Because quite honestly, NOBODY is THAT moronic and clueless to confuse a CTS of any generation with that of an Impala of any generation.

Maybe if we went and compared a 1980s Caprice with a 1980s Fleetwood...but I doubt your entourage   were old enough to remember those cars...

 

He's not wrong and those people aren't necessarily trolls.  People just aren't that knowledgeable.  Ages ago when I had just gotten my '04 CTS, a neighbor of mine came over to talk about it.  He was an owner of an STS.  He insisted that my CTS was FWD and Northstar powered and walked away in a huff saying I didn't know anything about cars when I corrected him. 

A lot of people really just don't know. 

1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Maybe a RWD/AWD XT5 would be taken more seriously by the press and favorably compared to BMW and MB, rather than just being a lowly FWD/AWD generic lease appliance like the Lexus LX, Lincoln MKX, etc...

Since when is a GLC or X3 not a lowly lease appliance?  That's pretty much all the vehicles in this segment are.  Status Leases.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

He's not wrong and those people aren't necessarily trolls.  People just aren't that knowledgeable.  Ages ago when I had just gotten my '04 CTS, a neighbor of mine came over to talk about it.  He was an owner of an STS.  He insisted that my CTS was FWD and Northstar powered and walked away in a huff saying I didn't know anything about cars when I corrected him. 

A lot of people really just don't know. 

The depth of stupid of the masses can't be underestimated.  I know a guy that thought his Avalon had a V4.

[ccap41]

8 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Actually, Cadillac doesn't have any rebadged Chevys, but does have platform sharing. The XTS shares a platform w/ the Impala, but isn't a rebadge.   Cadillac really doesn't have any rebadges of Chevy products--the Escalade shares the large SUV platform, but has significant differentiation from the Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon.    The XT5 has similar dirty bits to many Chevy, GMC, Buick FWD/AWD crossovers.

They aren't the badge-jobs of a decade ago but they're the same vehicle with new fascias and slightly different interiors.. Close enough to non-enthusiasts. 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Maybe a RWD/AWD XT5 would be taken more seriously by the press and favorably compared to BMW and MB, rather than just being a lowly FWD/AWD generic lease appliance like the Lexus LX, Lincoln MKX, etc...

This much I agree.

So..Drew, THIS would be a HUGE plus for a RWD CUV for Cadillac. Albeit the XT5 is still needed. And needed to be FWD based. There NEEDS to be high performance/high end RWD/AWD CUVs and SUVs for Cadillac...

[ccap41]

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

From what I gather...there wont be any "re-badged" Chevy stigma...   

(I cant believe Im still reading trolly responses like that in 2018...)

 

 

I can't believe you think that's a "trolly" statement/post.

13 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Where is that stigma present in those 4 photographs?

You don't need to try and convince me. Convince the general public. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, oldshurst442 said:

This much I agree.

So..Drew, THIS would be a HUGE plus for a RWD CUV for Cadillac. Albeit the XT5 is still needed. And needed to be FWD based. There NEEDS to be high performance/high end RWD/AWD CUVs and SUVs for Cadillac...

I'm fine with that. I'm actually not a big fan of the XT5 myself... I would go GLC.  However, it has nothing to do with 0-60 or RWD/AWD.

I would be interested in a Traverse platform Cadillac that was restyled to look like a baby Escalade.... as long as they fixed the interior quibbles I have with the XT5 and maybe put the 3.0TT in there. 

[Robert Hall]

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

He's not wrong and those people aren't necessarily trolls.  People just aren't that knowledgeable.  Ages ago when I had just gotten my '04 CTS, a neighbor of mine came over to talk about it.  He was an owner of an STS.  He insisted that my CTS was FWD and Northstar powered and walked away in a huff saying I didn't know anything about cars when I corrected him. 

A lot of people really just don't know. 

Since when is a GLC or X3 not a lowly lease appliance?  That's pretty much all the vehicles in this segment are.  Status Leases.

I wasn't talking about the entry level crud, was thinking more the X5, GLE, GLS...

[oldshurst442]

 

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I can't believe you think that's a "trolly" statement/post.

Well, yourself and Drew just now has proved to me that there are many idiots around. 

I too have met idiots like that.  But those idiots are not car people to begin with. So...all kinds of shyte comes out of their mouths. 

Im basing my statements calling them out as trolls to the people that ARE car people and have an inkling of what is actually happening in the automotive world.

In Quebec, the furthest place in North America  that one could call it being a car enthusiast place, and I have yet to meet a car person that would be THAT dense....(non-car people aside...)

THAT is how Im basing my statement. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They aren't the badge-jobs of a decade ago but they're the same vehicle with new fascias and slightly different interiors.. Close enough to non-enthusiasts. 

The badge jobs are the other way around... XTS came out first, Impala came out later, ATS came out first / Camaro came out later.

The Escalade is the only one that was released after the Chevy, but it has also gotten more updates in the meantime.  The XT5 and Acadia were released simultaneously. 

1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I wasn't talking about the entry level crud, was thinking more the X5, GLE, GLS...

Those are a different segment.  GLC and XT5 compete in the same price class.  Cadillac doesn't really have a true entry to compete with the GLE/X5.  Escalade is the answer to GLS and does just fine in the market competing with Benz. 

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The badge jobs are the other way around... XTS came out first, Impala came out later, ATS came out first / Camaro came out later.

The Escalade is the only one that was released after the Chevy, but it has also gotten more updates in the meantime.  The XT5 and Acadia were released simultaneously. 

Those are a different segment.  GLC and XT5 compete in the same price class.  Cadillac doesn't really have a true entry to compete with the GLE/X5.  Escalade is the answer to GLS and does just fine in the market competing with Benz. 

Interesting...I would think of the XT5 as a midsize luxury CUV, while the GLC is a compact.  

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Well, yourself and Drew just now has proved to me that there are many idiots around. 

I too have met idiots like that.  But those idiots are not car people to begin with. So...all kinds of shyte comes out of there mouths.

Im basing my statements calling them out as trolls to the people that ARE car people and have an inkling of what is actually happening in the automotive world.

In Quebec, the furthest place in North America  that one could call it being a car enthusiast place, and I have yet to meet a car person that would be THAT dense....

THAT is how Im basing my statement. 

Unfortunately, idiots buy cars.  You can go on the comments section of some of the larger automotive websites and see people who think the ATS is a rebadged Cruze.... so... fair warning... they're everywhere... even on enthusiast websites. 

[Robert Hall]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

Unfortunately, idiots buy cars.  You can go on the comments section of some of the larger automotive websites and see people who think the ATS is a rebadged Cruze.... so... fair warning... they're everywhere... even on enthusiast websites. 

Yeah, I remember all the idiots over a decade ago that thought the GTO was a Cavalier.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Interesting...I would think of the XT5 as a midsize luxury CUV, while the GLC is a compact.  

That is probably true that the XT5 has more room than the GLC.... that's probably the reason the XT5 sells better.

The GLC starts at $40,050 / The XT5 starts at $40,595.

[ccap41]

22 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Because either you are trolling with this statement...

Swear to God I'm not. I've talked to 2-3 people in the last 5 or so years. I corrected them but they still initially thought that. 

[oldshurst442]

Just now, ccap41 said:

Swear to God I'm not. I've talked to 2-3 people in the last 5 or so years. I corrected them but they still initially thought that. 

Im sorry for that.

Drew made that case loud and clear that idiots are in fact everywhere!

Sorry.

[ccap41]

18 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

A valid hypothesis. How has that helped Jaguar, Genesis, or Infiniti?  How has RWD helped Lexus? Their best sellers are still FWD and their worst sellers are RWD and consistently rank (undeservingly I might add) at the bottom of the sales charts for their segments. 

Infiniti in particular saw big sales increases when they started moving back to FWD platforms.

The bulk of Infiniti and Lexus brands sales hang on FWD vehicles.

Cadillac saw huge sales increases when they moved the SRX from RWD to FWD, and dropped the V8.

I'm thinking from a purely business perspective rather than an enthusiast perspective. How does Cadillac make more dollars by switching to RWD on a vehicle they already make a ton of money on?  How does a RWD XT5 translate to more CT5/S/6 sales?

I also think Cadillac is stuck in a little awkward part of the industry because there are and will only be so many sales available each year and stealing from the giants in Germany no matter how good their product is is still just a ridiculous task(like Ford'd Fusion taking on the Camry and Accord). I see the point in not investing more and more in something that might not yield enough of a return.

Jaguar and Genesis is still yet to be answered but the Genesis line is pretty impressive if you ask me. 

I completely understand your last paragraph and I don't have a true answer for it. I'm not saying that they can or can't but I was just putting out there a legitimate argument, be it right or wrong. 

28 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

So...either these guys you bumped into are trolls...much like yourself, or just cant stand Cadillac and/or GM and NOTHING that Cadillac and/or GM will do will EVER change that. Because quite honestly, NOBODY is THAT moronic and clueless to confuse a CTS of any generation with that of an Impala of any generation.

Ever run into a non-car person and talk cars with them? That'd be the general public that isn't us. They're the people who have no clue aboue platform sharing, engine sharing, rebadging things, nothing. They see "pretty" or "not pretty". 

[oldshurst442]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

Ever run into a non-car person and talk cars with them? That'd be the general public that isn't us. They're the people who have no clue aboue platform sharing, engine sharing, rebadging things, nothing. They see "pretty" or "not pretty". 

Yup.  And I dont talk cars with them. Ive stopped conversatin' with people like that. IA while ago. Not too long ago though but I made it a rule that I wont be wasting my time with folk like that...on any subject, not just cars.  When I see the entourage near me be filled with cluelessness and clueless people, I stop being the person to enlighten and I have become the person to flee. 

I enjoy the parties and get-togethers I go to much more now. 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

Ever run into a non-car person and talk cars with them? That'd be the general public that isn't us. They're the people who have no clue aboue platform sharing, engine sharing, rebadging things, nothing. They see "pretty" or "not pretty". 

True, I used to have a coworker that had a BMW 5 series, that when I was talking to him about his E39 his eyes glazed over...'what's an E39?'.   Wasn't a serious BMW fan...

[Drew Dowdell]

I think that RWD really is important for sedans, coupes, convertibles, etc.   While I don't believe that for my personal purchases, I do see why it matters in the market. 

Crossovers are a totally different beast. People simply don't buy them for performance.  Furthermore, in crossovers, if people care about anything it is that they are AWD rather then FWD or RWD. Once they hear that the vehicle has AWD, they go deaf to which way the engine faces... it just doesn't matter. They'll care more about if it has Apple Carplay or not (I know that is certainly a higher factor for me than a transverse mounted engine).

If there is anything holding back the XT5, it isn't the powertrain. The 3.6 + 9-speed is more than up to the task of moving the XT5 along briskly.  Could there be a more powerful option? Sure, but the percentage of takers is likely to be small.... it would exist purely to keep loud enthusiasts who won't buy a Cadillac anyway from flapping their gums. 

There are a number of interior issues that I see in the XT5 that aren't related to its platform.  The plastics on the lower doors where the map pockets are is horrible. Anything lower than the dashboard is pretty bad.  The switchgear doesn't feel premium. The leather isn't as nice feeling. These are all reasons to pick a GLC over an XT5... and the exact reasons I would myself.... the powertrain is fine though. 

[Robert Hall]

One way I do think that a Cadillac midsize RWD/AWD SUV instead or in addition to the current XT5 CUV could work is if its platform were shared w/ GMC.  A  Grand Cherokee competitor would fit nicely at GMC..picture a GMC Trailhawk competitor and 'Denali' (Summit competitor). 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

One way I do think that a Cadillac midsize RWD/AWD SUV instead or in addition to the current XT5 CUV could work is if its platform were shared w/ GMC.  A  Grand Cherokee competitor would fit nicely at GMC..picture a GMC Trailhawk competitor and 'Denali' (Summit competitor). 

This would be a fantastic addition to the Cadillac lineup in addition to the XT5... but not instead of.  Dropping the XT5 would be dropping customers for no reason. 

[Robert Hall]

Anyway, back to the original topic..I like the idea of a CT6 w/ a twin turbo V8.  Looking forward to seeing it in person.  Not sure about the taillights..

[Drew Dowdell]

I hope (and expect) that the rest of the CT6 lineup will be updated to the new look.... minus the V-Sport flourishes of course. 

[ccap41]

53 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The badge jobs are the other way around... XTS came out first, Impala came out later, ATS came out first / Camaro came out later.

WE know this. General public probably absolutely no clue which exactly came first. 

They, more than likely, see 100 times more Impalas and just think that came first because they probably saw them first. 

50 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Yeah, I remember all the idiots over a decade ago that thought the GTO was a Cavalier.

If that's the case... one Cavalier, please! 

48 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Im sorry for that.

Drew made that case loud and clear that idiots are in fact everywhere!

Sorry.

No worries

Edited March 22, 2018 by ccap41

[ccap41]

47 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

One way I do think that a Cadillac midsize RWD/AWD SUV instead or in addition to the current XT5 CUV could work is if its platform were shared w/ GMC.  A  Grand Cherokee competitor would fit nicely at GMC..picture a GMC Trailhawk competitor and 'Denali' (Summit competitor). 

That'd be nice. I'd like that as well. 

[David]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Maybe a RWD/AWD XT5 would be taken more seriously by the press and favorably compared to BMW and MB, rather than just being a lowly FWD/AWD generic lease appliance like the Lexus LX, Lincoln MKX, etc...

Yet Audi has had great SALES INCREASES with their FWD/AWD platform and it has not hurt them nor is there any stigma about them being FWD/AWD just like Cadillac, Acura, Lexus, etc..........

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Yet Audi has had great SALES INCREASES with their FWD/AWD platform and it has not hurt them nor is there any stigma about them being FWD/AWD just like Cadillac, Acura, Lexus, etc..........

Yeah...but about that...

Could it also be that Audi interiors are, like awesome, and when people actually sit inside an Audi CUV or SUV or sedan above the A4 car, are impressed and when are cross shopping with other brands like Acura, Buick, Infiniti, Cadillac and the like, are less impressed and go on to buy that Audi instead? 

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Yet Audi has had great SALES INCREASES with their FWD/AWD platform and it has not hurt them nor is there any stigma about them being FWD/AWD just like Cadillac, Acura, Lexus, etc..........

Audi has long been about AWD, while BMW and MB have long RWD histories.   Audi doesn't have a RWD heritage.  And Audi's key strengths are their interiors and subtle, crisp exterior styling. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[David]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

This much I agree.

So..Drew, THIS would be a HUGE plus for a RWD CUV for Cadillac. Albeit the XT5 is still needed. And needed to be FWD based. There NEEDS to be high performance/high end RWD/AWD CUVs and SUVs for Cadillac...

We have seen plenty of FWD/AWD auto's that are performance AWD models. I think you could easily beef up the proper powertrain components and have a V-Sport edition of the XT5 using the TTV6 or if it could fit, wedge in the TTV8 and have an XT5 V edition.

[oldshurst442]

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

We have seen plenty of FWD/AWD auto's that are performance AWD models. I think you could easily beef up the proper powertrain components and have a V-Sport edition of the XT5 using the TTV6 or if it could fit, wedge in the TTV8 and have an XT5 V edition.

Well, of course.

But where is that XT5-V? Or any other performance oriented CUV from Cadillac? 

The Germans are pumping out all kinds of models. Sure, they are pumping them out at an insane rate and its more akin to see what sticks rather than business savvy, but still. The models are there. 

Cadillac makes concepts that has the planet salivating, ALL THE PLANET, and are afraid to build it.  (minus the couple that they did build, but failed miserably in the market-place, but that was because of their piss-poor execution than anything else, which means that Cadillac product planners got no clue of what is going on in the market place...) 

 

[Robert Hall]

I don't think there is much market for an XT5-V in it's current form...Lexus doesn't have a RX-F, for instance. The women in the burbs leasing these don't have interest in a performance CUV.  

 Now a performance Cadillac SUV with a RWD/AWD chassis and V8 ala the M-B AMG GLE 63 or BMW X5M could be interesting....

Or working with what they have, how about a heavyweight Escalade V-sport or V with this new twin turbo V8? 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ccap41]

...JGC SRT8 & Trackhawk...

[David]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

True, I used to have a coworker that had a BMW 5 series, that when I was talking to him about his E39 his eyes glazed over...'what's an E39?'.   Wasn't a serious BMW fan...

boy.........

 

[oldshurst442]

19 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I don't think there is much market for an XT5-V in it's current form...Lexus doesn't have a RX-F, for instance. The women in the burbs leasing these don't have interest in a performance CUV.  

 Now a performance Cadillac SUV with a RWD/AWD chassis and V8 ala the M-B AMG GLE 63 or BMW X5M could be interesting....

Or working with what they have, how about a heavyweight Escalade V-sport or V with this new twin turbo V8? 

Yes. I agree to the XT5-V not being much of an interest and therefore not a money maker or at the very least, getting people in the showroom.

Soccer moms, suburban housewives, scrawny yuppie middle managers that think they got a clue but really dont, dont really buy into performance vehicles of any kind really.  And they dont get excited when the sales rep talks to them about high performance either. They dont go out of their way to visit a showroom based on the fact that Model XYZ won the 24 hours of Lemans or the Nascar race on Sunday and want to buy the baby version of that car or any other car in the showroom...and the XT5 or the RX or the X1 from BMW are just vehicles with luxury intentions that makes them feel good...

The Escalade...now that would be something of an interesting footnote in automotive history if Cadillac engineered  and offered something wild in powertrain and in sporty suspension demeanor options. 

"If it aint broke dont fix it" would not apply here as the Escalade aint broke and it sells just fine. 

But "why the phoque not???!!!" would do wonders in getting people in the showrooms just to look at one and see for themselves how stupendously nutty the vehicle might be and you never know, they may just drive off in a brand new CTS-V instead because they would deem the Escalade ESV-V too crazy and weird to explain to their neighbours...

Edited March 22, 2018 by oldshurst442

[David]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I hope (and expect) that the rest of the CT6 lineup will be updated to the new look.... minus the V-Sport flourishes of course. 

I also hope they add an Extended Length model. 

I can see sales of a CT6-L edition.

Awesome would be a CT6-L V-Sport and CT6-L V edition.  

21 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Well, of course.

But where is that XT5-V? Or any other performance oriented CUV from Cadillac? 

The Germans are pumping out all kinds of models. Sure, they are pumping them out at an insane rate and its more akin to see what sticks rather than business savvy, but still. The models are there. 

Cadillac makes concepts that has the planet salivating, ALL THE PLANET, and are afraid to build it.  (minus the couple that they did build, but failed miserably in the market-place, but that was because of their piss-poor execution than anything else, which means that Cadillac product planners got no clue of what is going on in the market place...) 

 

Bravo and VALID points! 

Totally agree that they seem to be missing many models in their lineup. This I blame on Johan being an idiot and not getting the right product to market faster. Yes Cadillac has made great progress since the First Escalade, but they need to speed up getting said product out and turning Amazing Concepts into actual Products.

[David]

19 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I don't think there is much market for an XT5-V in it's current form...Lexus doesn't have a RX-F, for instance. The women in the burbs leasing these don't have interest in a performance CUV.  

 Now a performance Cadillac SUV with a RWD/AWD chassis and V8 ala the M-B AMG GLE 63 or BMW X5M could be interesting....

Or working with what they have, how about a heavyweight Escalade V-sport or V with this new twin turbo V8? 

I would take the current Escalade with the TTV8 as a V-Sport and with the Supercharged V8 as the V edition.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't see the business model for all the variants that BMW and Mercedes are producing.  I think they are throwing spitballs at the wall and seeing what sticks. They'll have to cut them back eventually.

Cadillac is not "daring greatly" lately..... nor is GM as a whole.

[oldshurst442]

18 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't see the business model for all the variants that BMW and Mercedes are producing.  I think they are throwing spitballs at the wall and seeing what sticks. They'll have to cut them back eventually.

Cadillac is not "daring greatly" lately..... nor is GM as a whole.

I think it IS a business model. To see what sticks. Eliminate what doesnt. 

Find what works and go that way, get rid of what doesnt.  And yes, eventually, they trim the fat. But not without creating a fan base for their vehicles. Even the models that did not sell all the well, still had some buyers...they were in THAT showroom.  And now that their vehicle wont be coming back, maybe they had a good experience with that model and will be back in that very showroom buying another M-B...

I know what I just said could be challenged with brand loyalty data...it still does not change the fact that even with the slow selling models, people got to experience a BMW or Mercedes Benz vehicle.

That is MORE than Cadillac since Cadillac has NO models that these people would consider buying as Cadillac lacks many many products in many many niches...

And yes, Cadillac or GM, other than Corvette or Camaro or the V Series Cadillacs, are not daring greatly.

And I dont mean speed, but awesome engineering and taking chances and growing the brands that are Camaro, Corvette or V-Series...

Edited March 22, 2018 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

Cadillac is in the business of making money. With the XT5, they are probably printing it since it's just an Acadia with different styling. So I ask again, do you see a switch to RWD as something that would push the XT5 to sell better than the RX?   Would moving to RWD increase sales enough to make up for the lost profits of a more expensive (due to lower volume) platform? Does a move to RWD satisfy anyone other than enthusiasts who aren't buying in the segment anyway?

Explain the business case, in dollars, as to why Cadillac should make such a move. 

If the XT5 was rear drive then it would start at $50k instead of $40k and the XT5-V with this new 550 hp V8 would cost $110,000 which is more than they get for a CTS-V or Escalade.  There is your profit margin and business case.  

Then the XT4 would start at $40,000, rather than the $34k or whatever it has to start at to get under the XT5 and that XT4-V could run up to $75-80k, probably more than they charge for an ATS-V.  

Then you get an XT4 fwd Equinox clone at $34k if you need a volume low lease price leader.

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Yet Audi has had great SALES INCREASES with their FWD/AWD platform and it has not hurt them nor is there any stigma about them being FWD/AWD just like Cadillac, Acura, Lexus, etc..........

Audi has longitude mount engines so their weight balance isn't destroyed like a transverse mounted engine car, and Audi's interiors aren't crap.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I don't think there is much market for an XT5-V in it's current form...Lexus doesn't have a RX-F, for instance. The women in the burbs leasing these don't have interest in a performance CUV.  

 Now a performance Cadillac SUV with a RWD/AWD chassis and V8 ala the M-B AMG GLE 63 or BMW X5M could be interesting....

Or working with what they have, how about a heavyweight Escalade V-sport or V with this new twin turbo V8? 

Using Omega to make a GLE63 or X5 M or even X7 M competitor makes sense.   You can put this 550 hp engine in the Escalade just for the sake of charging more money for it (and they should do that) but the Escalade will never be sporty, it is too heavy and has a solid rear axle, etc.  But it works for the G-wagen, people pay $150k for it.  I could see charging $150k for an Escalade V-sport, even if they sell 50 of them a month, who cares, it is a $50k upgrade for an engine and some trim, why not go for it.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

...the Escalade will never be sporty, it is too heavy and has a solid rear axle

AMG GLS is heavier than an Escalade.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

AMG GLS is heavier than an Escalade.

Nope, a 4WD Escalade 5,856 lbs and a GLS63 is 5,754 lbs.  But they are moving the GLS to a new platform that will cut weight for 2019 anyway, problem solved.

[balthazar]

I saw different numbers. No matter; the 2 are statistically identical in weight, so your theory that the Escalade is too heavy is invalidated. Next gen E will get lighter also, so "problem solved".

BTW, I did read elsewhere that the 4.2TT is, in fact, going to get under the E's hood.

[David]

@balthazar @smk4565

Pretty much a wash between AWD models, but the 2WD Escalade is the same weight as the awd GLS 550.

I am sure both companies will shed some weight with their next models. Plus GM can put in more powerful NA V8's, so many more reliable GM engine options than MB has.

[Drew Dowdell]

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If the XT5 was rear drive then it would start at $50k instead of $40k and the XT5-V with this new 550 hp V8 would cost $110,000 which is more than they get for a CTS-V or Escalade.  There is your profit margin and business case.  

Then the XT4 would start at $40,000, rather than the $34k or whatever it has to start at to get under the XT5 and that XT4-V could run up to $75-80k, probably more than they charge for an ATS-V.  

Then you get an XT4 fwd Equinox clone at $34k if you need a volume low lease price leader.

Audi has longitude mount engines so their weight balance isn't destroyed like a transverse mounted engine car, and Audi's interiors aren't crap.

If your argument is that Cadillac needs a RWD crossover, I'm there with you.  Where I disagree with you is the assertion that the XT5 must be that vehicle. I see no reason why both cannot exist in the Cadillac lineup.   It's not a one-or-other issue.  Cadillac can sell a baby Escalade in RWD form right alongside the current XT5.  There is absolutely no reason that Cadillac should abandon a segment they are one of the best sellers in. 

[ccap41]

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If the XT5 was rear drive then it would start at $50k instead of $40k and the XT5-V with this new 550 hp V8 would cost $110,000 which is more than they get for a CTS-V or Escalade.  There is your profit margin and business case.

I agree but you still need people to buy those vehicles at those prices. Just because they make them doesn't mean their sales will remain where they are for a more profitable vehicle. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Also, the assertion that Audi's handling isn't bad relative to the segment is wrong. They are consistently rated lower than BMW, MB, RWD Infinitis, Cadillac, RWD Lexus.  The last SRX actually handled excellently. The XT5 is just "eh", but the point is that FWD and handling are not mutually exclusive.

 Audi's have just as much, if not more weight in front of the front axle than any transverse mounted setup. They plow hard in turns and it is only through Quattro doing its computer assisted magic that the cars don't end up in the trees. 

The entirety of Audi's engines sit ahead of the axle centerline... even the old FWD northstars move the weight further back than that.

 

[Robert Hall]

So Audi has the engine longitudinally mounted ahead of the front axle... odd.    Now that is on the A4 and larger sedan/coupe models, what about the smaller models like the A1 and A3--aren't those transverse FWD/AWD like VWs?