December 2018: Ford Motor Company

[William Maley]

[Drew Dowdell]

Some pretty major red marks for Ford brand.  Car sales down 27%!  At least Lincoln is trending upwards. I'm really surprised the Navigator is being so slow to pick up.  It's still selling half of what the Escalade sells even though it is now the better vehicle. 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Some pretty major red marks for Ford brand.  Car sales down 27%!  At least Lincoln is trending upwards. I'm really surprised the Navigator is being so slow to pick up.  It's still selling half of what the Escalade sells even though it is now the better vehicle. 

Even given my animosity towards Ford...i cannot help but like the navigator and aviator both. Good designs, hope they do well with both. 

Will miss the Fiesta ST when it goes away.

[Suaviloquent]

They stopped producing the Focus last year, so there's whatever sales the Focus will have over the next months will be what's left of the Focus that were made when the Wayne line was still running.

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

They stopped producing the Focus last year, so there's whatever sales the Focus will have over the next months will be what's left of the Focus that were made when the Wayne line was still running.

I wonder when Fusion quits? Someone said it was going to run through 2020.

[David]

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I wonder when Fusion quits? Someone said it was going to run through 2020.

Per Road n Track:

A Ford spokesperson confirmed to us that the current Taurus will endproduction in March 2019, while North American-market Fiesta productionwill cease in May 2019. There isn't a specific timeline for the end of Fusion production.

[A Horse With No Name]

Taurus...in an SHO version might have been interesting.

[ocnblu]

5 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Taurus...in an SHO version might have been interesting.

Serious?  You know there is currently a Taurus SHO, right?

[A Horse With No Name]

3 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Serious?  You know there is currently a Taurus SHO, right?

Ohhhhh...I am very very aware. And it is hot enough to overcome all of my dark feelings about Ford.

Passed one in traffic...maroon...coming home last night.

That and the Fiesta ST are the high points of their car lineup for me.

I was saying might have been interesting in my driveway.

[frogger]

Judging by that pic alone, it looks like a rental car with aftermarket rims to me.

 

[ocnblu]

But... skeeter... you can still get one... and everyone around you will drive slower... you don't actually have to hot dog it, but you'll be going faster than everyone in sight...

 

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, frogger said:

Judging by that pic alone, it looks like a rental car with aftermarket rims to me.

 

Ohhhhh it is anything but. 

Just now, ocnblu said:

But... skeeter... you can still get one... and everyone around you will drive slower... you don't actually have to hot dog it, but you'll be going faster than everyone in sight...

 

Forty two grand to buy it and a note on the beetle with several months left on it stand in the way.

CPO...would love to find one in a few years.

[frogger]

I'd take a 300s or Charger over the SHO every time.  Both dated platforms but the FCA one is so much better.

[smk4565]

What is troubling for Ford is Escape, Flex and Explorer are down over 20% last month.  Granted those are all long in the tooth models with replacements coming, but once all those sedans are gone, and all that is crossovers, if 3 drop 20% you are pretty screwed.

[oldshurst442]

9 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Some pretty major red marks for Ford brand.  Car sales down 27%!  At least Lincoln is trending upwards. I'm really surprised the Navigator is being so slow to pick up.  It's still selling half of what the Escalade sells even though it is now the better vehicle. 

The 3.5 liter ecoboosted V6 may be a factor...

Im thinking a V8 is what is needed in this.  An ecoboosted V6 Ford F-150 is one thing.  To say to your Jones-es neighbors that want to keep up with you, or that you want to keep up with them,  that your Lincoln  land yacht halo SUV  is an ecoboosted V6 is another.  That Jones-es neighbor probably has a 6.2 liter V8 Escalade, or a 5.4 liter V8 Mercedes GLwhatever other letter...in his drive-way...so...what are you gonna do as a Jones-es person yourself...buy a halo SUV with the top engine being only a V6...

V8s still command respect. Especially when very few of them exist nowadays.  I do not know how many V8 Chargers and Challengers are being sold over at FCA, but it seems like both Dodges are selling quite well. And Im assuming that the V8 versions of those are probably significant in the overall tallies. 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by oldshurst442

[David]

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The 3.5 liter ecoboosted V6 may be a factor...

Im thinking a V8 is what is needed in this.  An ecoboosted V6 Ford F-150 is one thing.  To say to your Jones-es neighbors that want to keep up with you, or that you want to keep up with them,  that your Lincoln  land yacht halo SUV  is an ecoboosted V6 is another.  That Jones-es neighbor probably has a 6.2 liter V8 Escalade, or a 5.4 liter V8 Mercedes GLwhatever other letter...in his drive-way...so...what are you gonna do as a Jones-es person yourself...buy a halo SUV with the top engine being only a V6...

V8s still command respect. Especially when very few of them exist nowadays.  I do not know how many V8 Chargers and Challengers are being sold over at FCA, but it seems like both Dodges are selling quite well. And Im assuming that the V8 versions of those are probably significant in the overall tallies. 

I totally get what you are saying about V8's, yet with the performance that is being delivered in V6 and 4 bangers, it is amazing to hear coworkers that say they wonder why people want V8's. Usually they are clueless about auto's, torque and towing along with true performance.

In Ice, I take a V8 every day over smaller motors.

[oldshurst442]

43 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I totally get what you are saying about V8's, yet with the performance that is being delivered in V6 and 4 bangers, it is amazing to hear coworkers that say they wonder why people want V8's. Usually they are clueless about auto's, torque and towing along with true performance.

In Ice, I take a V8 every day over smaller motors.

But, I doubt those folk be driving loud, halo cars like an Escalade, or Challenger, let alone a Ferrari 512 to begin with...

These folk be driving soulless BMW AWD 3 Series or AWD Audi A4s. Or worse, the CUVs of those brands.  Or quiet ride Lexus and Buicks. (Not so sure about Buick because those types wont be caught dead in one, because GM).  

Those folk wont understand why a car like the Miata, a 4 banger, even exists let alone wanting a V8 under its hood...

Yes, there are many of those kinds of folk, but for those few folk that want to express themselves and LOVE the automobile for what it TRULY represents, a status symbol, but a status symbol of what it can actually do on the road and that they themselves take pride in commandeering, little trivial stuff like a V8 in a land yatch halo car is still a must. And in the league of a Navigator and Escalade, that may very well be the case. 

In the pick-up truck world, maybe Ford did a truly exceptional thing in convincing the good  'ole boys to ditch the V8 in their dick measuring trucks, it seems like the message has not been passed on to the Lincoln Navigator...

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

But, I doubt those folk be driving loud, halo cars like an Escalade, or Challenger, let alone a Ferrari 512 to begin with... 

 

Something like the Escalade should be very quiet...a luxury vehicle should be very quiet and refined, not loud...a quiet interior without harsh road noise and a powerful sound system. 

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Something like the Escalade should be very quiet...a luxury vehicle should be very quiet and refined, not loud...a quiet interior without harsh road noise and a powerful sound system. 

True. And the V8 the Escalade already has is powerful, and its very quiet. 

Actually, the Corvette ZR1 in Tour mode is also very powerful and quiet.  But both need V8s to keep up a certain image.

[Drew Dowdell]

12 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The 3.5 liter ecoboosted V6 may be a factor...

Im thinking a V8 is what is needed in this.  An ecoboosted V6 Ford F-150 is one thing.  To say to your Jones-es neighbors that want to keep up with you, or that you want to keep up with them,  that your Lincoln  land yacht halo SUV  is an ecoboosted V6 is another.  That Jones-es neighbor probably has a 6.2 liter V8 Escalade, or a 5.4 liter V8 Mercedes GLwhatever other letter...in his drive-way...so...what are you gonna do as a Jones-es person yourself...buy a halo SUV with the top engine being only a V6...

V8s still command respect. Especially when very few of them exist nowadays.  I do not know how many V8 Chargers and Challengers are being sold over at FCA, but it seems like both Dodges are selling quite well. And Im assuming that the V8 versions of those are probably significant in the overall tallies. 

 

It could be that... I guess... but then people really gotta drive it because it feels like a V8. Well... .what you can feel of it at all.  It just has a lot of pull. 

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It could be that... I guess... but then people really gotta drive it because it feels like a V8. Well... .what you can feel of it at all.  It just has a lot of pull. 

Which of course a twin turbo 6 cylinder will also pull with the same force. If not more when the turbos kick in.  But a naturally aspirated engine, especially a V8 naturally aspirated engine still has a leg up on a forced induction V6.  

Image. I think a V8 in a beast of a car like an Escalade or Navigatot or Cullinan or Bentayga or a Mercedes GLwhatever or a Land Rover still resonates with folk that wanna show their wealth. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

Which of course a twin turbo 6 cylinder will also pull with the same force. If not more when the turbos kick in.  But a naturally aspirated engine, especially a V8 naturally aspirated engine still has a leg up on a forced induction V6.  

Image. I think a V8 in a beast of a car like an Escalade or Navigatot or Cullinan or Bentayga or a Mercedes GLwhatever or a Land Rover still resonates with folk that wanna show their wealth. 

You're probably right. The Navigator is just so good in the other areas that I think people should give it a chance. 

[smk4565]

My guess is the V6 GLS outsells the V8 GLS but that is also a by product of price.  I don’t think the V6 really hurts the Navigator, plenty of expensive cars have 6 cylinder engines now.  The word “Lincoln” probably hurts sales more than anything, they let the Navigator rot for 10 years being uncompetitive.

Also Tesla outsold every luxury car brand except Lexus, BMW and Mercedes last year, and Tesla has no cylinders and yet is the on fire product.

[A Horse With No Name]

16 hours ago, frogger said:

I'd take a 300s or Charger over the SHO every time.  Both dated platforms but the FCA one is so much better.

But the SHO is unique as not many are around. Weere I dumping Actual coin and not just lusting after a car on the internet...Golf R or WRX STI all day long for me please. 

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You're probably right. The Navigator is just so good in the other areas that I think people should give it a chance. 

Agree completely. 

[smk4565]

When the Navigator had a V8 the sales sucked.  The V6 model is selling better than the V8 did.  So the engine isn't the problem.    The troubling sign for Ford is every product except for the Fiesta, GT, F-series, Police Interceptor, Expedition and Navigator were down for the year.  And the GT is a specialty car with 129 sales, Fiesta is getting killed.  That leaves the 3 big trucks as the only growth and a recession or gas price spike could curtail that in a hurry.