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Lexus News: Lexus GX 460 Gets a Face..... Lift?

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3 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

“Old isn’t reliable” yet you would have never said that in regards to the G Wagon which was far older than anything from Toyota or Lexus.

 

In the case of the two I’ve mentioned, it certainly is though and you clearly do not pay attention to every reliability study and article that backs this up. I also was not debating sales but since you’ve brought it up the GLE is only up 3,000 units for the year (so far) on the GX (12,000 vs. 9,000 roughly). The GLE is down 33% for the year while the old GX aid down just 9%. Guess by your logic, people aren’t flocking to the GLE this year. Your sales argument isn’t even that solid but like I said, the lack of GX sales has more do with its ugly looks than its powertrain.

 

Cadillac has used the 6.2L for years now yet it still spanks the Germans, for the record. 

The G-wagen wasn't reliable because it was old, it was reliable because Mercedes engineered to take a beating and had them hand built, and it always had the current V8.

A lot of that GLE is model changeover.  With the 3-row GLE on sale now that will turn course this year.

That Cadillac V8 is old too, not Lexus old, at least GM updates their small block V8s with some frequency.  And it doesn't spank the Germans as the X7 has 521 hp, the GLS has 488 + an electric motor and the Escalade has 420 hp. 

 And I imagine BMW is going to do an X7 M and and X8 M, because Mercedes has a GLS63 and a GLS73 on the way.  And then Bentley will have to answer because their 600 hp Bentayga will look lame vs a GLS73 or a Ferrari Purosangue.   

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The G-wagen wasn't reliable because it was old, it was reliable because Mercedes engineered to take a beating and had them hand built, and it always had the current V8.

A lot of that GLE is model changeover.  With the 3-row GLE on sale now that will turn course this year.

That Cadillac V8 is old too, not Lexus old, at least GM updates their small block V8s with some frequency.  And it doesn't spank the Germans as the X7 has 521 hp, the GLS has 488 + an electric motor and the Escalade has 420 hp. 

 And I imagine BMW is going to do an X7 M and and X8 M, because Mercedes has a GLS63 and a GLS73 on the way.  And then Bentley will have to answer because their 600 hp Bentayga will look lame vs a GLS73 or a Ferrari Purosangue.   

And you don’t think Toyota hasn’t engineered the 4 Runner and the GX in the same way (they are platform mates after all)? Seriously? All I know is this. I’ll take the reliability of those two (especially the 4 Runner) over the G Wagon any day. I see countless ads of those with over 200K miles and still chugging along problem free with a killer resale value to boot. The same cannot be said for the G Wagon no matter how you try to embellish it. There is literally not one car or SUV that can touch the 4 Runner on resale value, and sure as hell not one from Germany.

 

And again, you keep moving the bar with the horsepower argument when your sales argument falls flat. Fact is the Slade outsells all other full size luxury SUVs on its “Chevy frame” which is what I was referring to since YOU brought up sales and old powertrains. Regarding the GLE, all I hear are more excuses that you don’t grant to any other make. It doesn’t even merit a response because it’s the same old crap. 

Don’t worry SMK. You can always get a smoking deal on a G Wagon that lost half its value in just four years and it only has 30K miles on it. 

 

 

14B9C760-7726-46ED-9A21-4820EF295768.png

Edited by surreal1272
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13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

For Lexus money why don't they give you a 450 hp V8 that is butter smooth?

Over in the GLE they have a 488 hp V8 with electric assist and the X5 has a 521 hp V8.  Lexus is literally 220 hp behind BMW and the BMW gets better gas mileage.  

GX460 starts at $52k

X5 starts at $60k

Q7 starts at $73k

GLE is not in the same class

Yes GX is old but is PROVEN to be very reliable and it is PROVEN to be really good off-road unlike its German counterparts (not that many owners take it off road)

Q7 and X5 are undoubtedly much better on-road but I would never buy them only lease.  GX460 will easily go up to 300k miles.  That is the reason I was interested in it.   Enough space and comfort and yet, would be able to take it off road or camping.

Funny thing,  I can buy 2016-2017 CPO X5 for about $35-40k (so it lost at least 40-45% of its value in less than 3 years.  And yet comparable in mileage CPO GX460 go for $38-45k

I wonder why is that ...

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ykX said:

GX460 starts at $52k

X5 starts at $60k

Q7 starts at $73k

GLE is not in the same class

Yes GX is old but is PROVEN to be very reliable and it is PROVEN to be really good off-road unlike its German counterparts (not that many owners take it off road)

Q7 and X5 are undoubtedly much better on-road but I would never buy them only lease.  GX460 will easily go up to 300k miles.  That is the reason I was interested in it.   Enough space and comfort and yet, would be able to take it off road or camping.

Funny thing,  I can buy 2016-2017 CPO X5 for about $35-40k (so it lost at least 40-45% of its value in less than 3 years.  And yet comparable in mileage CPO GX460 go for $38-45k

I wonder why is that ...

Be careful pointing out the facts. That bar will get kicked around for it.   

 

And despite its older powertrain, I am convinced that more would be on the road if the front end didn’t look like it was beaten with the whole ugly tree. 

Edited by surreal1272

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38 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Be careful pointing out the facts. That bar will get kicked around for it.   

 

And despite its older powertrain, I am convinced that more would be on the road if the front end didn’t look like it was beaten with the whole ugly tree. 

I blame the whole ugliness of Japanese brand auto's on their culture of keep the girls and boys seperate for the most part and no individuality. Agree that all of Lexus and now Toyota is being bashed BIG Time with the Ugly Tree Stick!

I have a few coworkers that have their Lexus and swear by them for reliability even though they do not like the styling. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Isn't the GLE, X5 and Q7 about as direct of competitors as they get? 

Yes.   And the GLS, X7, and Q8 are competitors (though the Q8 is oddly smaller than the Q7).   The G-class is a bling novelty in it's own niche. 

Edited by Robert Hall

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13 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I blame the whole ugliness of Japanese brand auto's on their culture of keep the girls and boys seperate for the most part and no individuality. Agree that all of Lexus and now Toyota is being bashed BIG Time with the Ugly Tree Stick!

I have a few coworkers that have their Lexus and swear by them for reliability even though they do not like the styling. 

Literally the only Lexus that wears that grill well is the LC500 IMO. All the rest are visual abominations. 

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I wish we had the front from the Land Cruiser Prado, like I posted on the forst page.  Looks much better.

My father-in-law has an older pre-predator face RX350 and wanted to upgrade to a new one and was holding off just because of the looks.

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11 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Don’t worry SMK. You can always get a smoking deal on a G Wagon that lost half its value in just four years and it only has 30K miles on it.

It might have dropped a lot in that 4-year span but they seem to hold their value pretty well. 

There are plenty of examples of 80-150k+ mile examples of the early-mid 2000's G500's still asking $30-40k. 

FWIW, 115k was the MSRP in 2015 and there aren't really options on a G Wagen. It's either a 550 or an AMG so it's roughly a 35% loss. I think the only options are exterior and interior colors. 

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Yes.   And the GLS, X7, and Q8 are competitors (though the Q8 is oddly smaller than the Q7).   The G-class is a bling novelty in it's own niche. 

Yeah the G Wagen is actually kind of small to today's SUV standards. Personally, I think it is about perfectly sized. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

Yeah the G Wagen is actually kind of small to today's SUV standards. Personally, I think it is about perfectly sized. 

It's more of a small midsize than a full size...smaller than my Jeep.  But it's a good size for people that don't need a 3rd row.  And it's very capable off-road.  I like the Land Cruiser also, very old school but quite capable off-road. 

Edited by Robert Hall

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@ccap41 G-wagen is a special case and I think it holds its value relatively well

But GLE is a completely different story, cheapest new one around me is $60k and I can buy 2017 CPO for $36-38k.   That's almost a 40% loss of value in 2 years.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It might have dropped a lot in that 4-year span but they seem to hold their value pretty well. 

There are plenty of examples of 80-150k+ mile examples of the early-mid 2000's G500's still asking $30-40k. 

FWIW, 115k was the MSRP in 2015 and there aren't really options on a G Wagen. It's either a 550 or an AMG so it's roughly a 35% loss. I think the only options are exterior and interior colors. 

Yeah the G Wagen is actually kind of small to today's SUV standards. Personally, I think it is about perfectly sized. 

I’m the context of the conversation I was having with SMK, it has $h! resale when compared to the GX and 4 Runner. They all use/used older powertrains for years but one (or two in this case) had a much better resale than the other and its because of legendary reliability (a point that was debated by SMK because asserted that “older doesn’t mean reliable”. All that happens with the G-Wagon being a low volume produced vehicle (which is the only reason why it maintains any value, scarcity breeds value). That’s what was being discussed. 

Edited by surreal1272

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14 minutes ago, ykX said:

@ccap41 G-wagen is a special case and I think it holds its value relatively well

But GLE is a completely different story, cheapest new one around me is $60k and I can buy 2017 CPO for $36-38k.   That's almost a 40% loss of value in 2 years.

I 100% agree. I wasn't bringing up the G Wagen though...

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

resale when compared to the GX and 4 Runner.

Agree to disagree. An 8-12k mid 2000's GX hasn't held its value any better than a G Wagen. 

Edited by ccap41

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, ykX said:

@ccap41 G-wagen is a special case and I think it holds its value relatively well

But GLE is a completely different story, cheapest new one around me is $60k and I can buy 2017 CPO for $36-38k.   That's almost a 40% loss of value in 2 years.

Which is what I was getting at. SMK asserted that “old isn’t reliable” and the GX and 4 Runner prove him wrong. I added the G Wagon to prove how he won’t use that same line on it when if it weren’t for its rarity, it’s value wouldn’t be what it is and if it were mass produced like the rest of MBs lineup, it sure as hell wouldn’t be reliable long term. As it is, it still isn’t as reliable, long term, as the other two. Even with that scarcity, it does not hold a candle to the other two mentioned. It is crazy what even a 15 year old 4 Runner and GX will fetch and it’s all because they are generally bulletproof SUVs, ancient powertrain and all. 

Edited by surreal1272

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Agree to disagree. An 8-12k mid 2000's GX hasn't held its value any better than a G Wagen. 

Look at the mileage of the two before you make that statement and bear in mind that a loaded GX was about $46K new. Fact is that is shameful that a six figure low volume SUV isn’t as reliable at the other two nor does it hold its value as well considering the factors I’ve already mentioned. If you want to ignore those factors because you fancy them, knock yourself out. Just don’t expect me to share that same enthusiasm. 

 

Again, I’m case you missed the first time I’ve mentioned it, the G-Wagon only has its scarcity to hold its value whereas known reliability keeps the value of the GX and especially the 4 Runner high by comparison while all three were running on ancient powertrains which SMK asserted doesn’t mean its reliable. 

Edited by surreal1272

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2007 

GX

$12,000/$46,000 = 26.1% retained value

G500

$30,000/$84,000 = 35.7% retained value

It doesn't have its scarcity simply to hold its value. At least until the brand new 2019's, it was still hand built. Mercedes isn't selling them at a low volume so their customers can have a slightly higher resale value. I've never heard of that before on a non-limited run vehicle.

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Posted (edited)

Hand built cars are the very definition of the word “scarcity” and by nature are low volume and that is what helps them retain any value they have. Not sure what you’re not getting but I’m not going to explain it any further. And please pay attention to the images below because is what I was telling SMK in the very beginning before it moved on to the used market. This “old” GX has the best resale value of any midsize luxury SUV. I would sure as hell take it over the GLE which is what it competes with.

 

As far as the G Wagon, all things considered (like cost of ownership of a hand built SUV), I still wouldn’t have even if money were no object. If I wanted a 4x4 brick on wheels, I’d just buy a Wrangler Rubicon, that has 95% of the Gs off road ability, for a third of the price and call it a day. It is just not my cup of tea. Honestly, if money were no object and a I wanted a 4x4 SUV, I’d buy a loaded 4 Runner TRD and never look back.

 

 

0BEE09F6-08F6-467B-A560-750300205F01.png

DA0D8819-A0C1-4B5D-A294-72F91A5DC946.png

Edited by surreal1272

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All of those brand new vehicles really get to show how well their value is retained 10-15 years down the road.. rEtAiNeD vAlUe

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

All of those brand new vehicles really get to show how well their value is retained 10-15 years down the road.. rEtAiNeD vAlUe

And the Toyota and Lexus do it better than most of not all because they are reliable, which for the last time, was where the discussion started when SMK stated that “old isn’t reliable”. Your selective use of cAPiTal LEtTers does not change this fact just because you have a affinity for a German Jeep. It should be considered sad and laughable that it takes a low volume hand built SUV to be considered valuable or reliable from a brand that otherwise is the exact opposite in 10-15 years. “Best or nothing” right?

 

And I’ll take this bulletproof SUV in this color please. 

 

 

AF3BD521-C721-45EA-8C7F-031F2D284D94.jpeg

Edited by surreal1272

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm just over here doing maths providing information. Numbers don't lie. 

No. You’re deflecting from what I was saying. You didn’t pay attention to the original discussion and that’s my point. You also ignored all the factors that got you to that number because again, you have an affinity for the G. It doesn’t change a thing I’ve said it does nor prove anything against what I was telling SMK.  

 

Since you brought it up though, this after five years of ownership. Notice not ONE Mercedes on that list. 

 

Like you said, just here doing maths. 

EF7AF073-FE98-4389-9B3B-AC3F53DD59F3.png

Edited by surreal1272

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41 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

2007 

GX

$12,000/$46,000 = 26.1% retained value

G500

$30,000/$84,000 = 35.7% retained value

 

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Just now, ccap41 said:

 

Hand built low volume with a much higher cost of ownership. This has also already been explained to you but apparently you just ignore the evidence like SMK does when it doesn’t suit your argument. That’s the last I will say about it.

 

Math. 

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