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William Maley

Genesis News: 2021 Genesis G80 Packs New Styling, Two Turbo Engines

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19 hours ago, regfootball said:

even the Lexus will be deeply discounted though, too...

 

And what is faux luxury about the new G80?  Surely more luxury than any Cadillac outside the Escalade...

 

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HATE the grille.  Not a fan of the taillamps.  The interior is incredibly sweet.

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On 3/30/2020 at 9:44 PM, Robert Hall said:

I like the dash, though the screen seems an afterthought stuck on top of the dash. Odd steering wheel.  i like the horizontal light pipes on the headlights and taillights...a distinctive detail.  The profile is clean, the 6 window fastback reminiscent of the A7 and others..

That form factor allows for the screen to be closer to eye-level in addition to allowing for a slimmer dash/lower dash height which opens up the cabin.

 

On 3/30/2020 at 10:04 PM, smk4565 said:

But what about a level about this?  My guess is they stop with the 375 hp engine, and the big boys have 600.  I still can't take Genesis seriously, I don't think the G70 is better than anything in that segment from Germany and the G70 isn't really cheaper, so what is the point?

Have been rumblings of a more powerful Sport version w/ the 3.5TT V6 putting out around 420 HP.

No plans for a separate M or AMG division; too early for that, plus Biermann and his team are too busy w/ the Hyundai N performance sub-brand.

 

On 4/2/2020 at 2:27 PM, balthazar said:

G80 is certainly no better than the CT6, which Cadillac DID build.

The G80 competed against the CTS, not the CT6, and arguably, the interior of the new G80 outdoes that of the CT6 (much less the CTS).

 

On 4/2/2020 at 6:48 PM, balthazar said:

Point was- CT6 -while going away- was a beautifully proportioned sedan.

No worries- no one is going to buy the genesis anyway.

 

On 4/3/2020 at 5:03 PM, smk4565 said:

And yet the G80 currently starts $12k lower than a 5-series or Eclass and is still outsold 3 to 1 by them, maybe more than that.

The new G80 is nicer but Genesis has no brand image at all.  They undercut the S-class by $40,000 with the G90 and still can’t sell them.  

For much of its run, the Genesis sedan/G80 was the 3rd best seller in the segment behind the E Class and 5 Series.

Due to a # of factors, the A6 has overtaken the G80 for 3rd place, but the new G80 should retake the spot.

As for the G90, it's a tougher sell for Genesis (but basically a tough sell these days for anyone but MB w/ the S Class).

Ever since its face-lift, the G90 has been outselling the LS 500 in Canada and outsold the LS here for March (1st month the F/L has been available in the US).

Going forward, should be a tight race btwn the G90 and LS for 3rd place (albeit significantly behind the 2nd place 7 Series), but wouldn't be surprised if the next gen G90 overtakes the LS on a consistent basis.

 

On 4/4/2020 at 6:48 PM, smk4565 said:

Corolla- near top of its segment

Camry- benchmark in its segment

RAV4- benchmark in its segment

Lexus RX- most popular in its segment and benchmark front drive crossover.

Avalon/Lexus ES- pretty much the last man standing in their segment

Prius, the benchmark hybrid until the RAV4 became the #1 selling hybrid in America

Wherever Toyota puts effort they are successful.  But they put zero effort in the Tundra.

Civic, Mazda3, Forte and likely the new Elantra are better than the Corolla sedan.

The Accord is the benchmark for the midsize sedan segment.

Likewise, the CR-V is the benchmark for its segment.

For C/D's 2019 Editors' Choice awards - Toyota only had 2 models chosen and Lexus had zero.

Brands like Honda, H/K and Mazda and numerous models chosen.

The brand new Highlander can't even beat out the Telluride (or Palisade) in comparison tests.
 

 

On 4/5/2020 at 8:49 PM, riviera74 said:

They need a GV90 and especially a GV70 right now, not in 24-36 months.  Every other luxury marque has at least two if not three crossovers, which are the sales leaders right now and have been so for the past five years.  Can you imagine Audi sales without the Q3 and the Q5?  Or BMW sales without the X3 and the X5?  Or Mercedes Benz without the GL- class?  Their sales numbers would be trending down just like Infiniti!  In an era where the flagship of almost any car make is a crossover and NOT a large sedan, the G80 is a solution in search of some customers.

The GV70 is slated for release later this year in Korea, so early 2021 launch for the US.

A 3rd CUV (likely a dedicated BEV) is slated for release sometime in 2022.

No plans for a GV90 just yet.

 

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On 4/5/2020 at 8:48 PM, smk4565 said:

All these arguments against Mercedes, BMW or Audi with high maintenance cost, or fleet sale or whatever are meaningless.  Because that has been the case for 40 years and those 3 are still the top 3.   Bottom line is it comes down to product and brand image in the luxury game.  

What makes the Genesis brand special?  Mercedes won the Formula 1 championship 6 years in a row,  Audi and Porsche win Le Mans with the same frequency that people eat cheeseburgers.   These guys know performance.  They have legendary histories.  Genesis has no grab to get people in, even if the G80 looks nice, it will probably look dated in 4 years since they mostly copy other people's past design and have an all new styling language every few years.

Wouldn't exactly include Audi w/ Benz and BMW (at least in North America).

Audi has trouble selling its higher end sedans like the A6 and A8 here.

For much of its run, the Genesis sedan/G80 has outsold the A6 (as well as the GS) and should once again when the new model launches.

The G90 also outsells the A8.

As for racing, the typical buyer has little knowledge of it and don't really care.

Lamborghini eschewed racing as a waste of resources and look at Koenigsegg and Pagani.

The i30N has become a big seller in Germany, home of the GTI and Golf R.

 

On 4/7/2020 at 9:11 AM, dfelt said:

BMW and Mercedes-Benz will FAIL also as long as they continue to focus on the wrong EV product for this Market.

GENESIS could very well take market share from everyone if they bring out a mid size and bigger EV products at a decent price. 

As all of us are in agreement here, Genesis needs to have luxury CUV/SUVs now rather than cars.

Take the Hyundai Palisade and make both an ICE and EV luxury Genesis version and you will have a winner winner Steak Dinner. 

 

Mercedes thinks VW's BEV strategy will fail b/c they aren't starting off w/ a CUV like they are.

Looks like the 1st Genesis BEV will be the eG80 (Genesis has trademarked eGV80, eG70, etc.), but they are also working on separate BEVs on dedicated electric platforms, the 1st being a CUV.

The Palisade won't work as Genesis due to its FWD architecture (which is why it and the Telluride are threats to the likes of the RX-L, MDX, QX60) and isn't able to support a BEV variant unti it switches to the new platform that underpins the Sonata.

Also, sedans are still very important for Genesis.

Large lux sedans are still the preferred choice in Korea (which is one of the largest and most profitable markets for the E/S Class and the 5/7 Series), as well as in China where the Genesis brand will launch in the not too distant future.

 

On 4/10/2020 at 6:30 PM, smk4565 said:

The Palisade is roughly the same size as the GV80, even if they grow the platform they can’t go against the Escalade with a front drive Hyundai platform and they can’t charge more for a Palisade based SUV than they do for GV80 which is a rear drive Genesis platform.  GV90 will be a a rear drive product as I suspect GV70 would be.  And a GV60 could be made off the Tucson platform or whatever small suv platform they have.

 

No plans for the GV90 just yet, but the 3rd Genesis CUV will be a dedicated BEV.

 

On 4/11/2020 at 9:11 PM, smk4565 said:

The Lexus GS is dated,  but the ES sells because it is the same size as a G80 or GS or E-class and it starts at $39k.  It is mid-size car for G70 money.  

And the other full-size FWD-based luxo-barges (Continental, XTS, RLX, S90) were priced a segment higher (G80 money).

 

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After seeing the new G80 launch and Q&A on Motortrend, the car is nice.  The interior looks good, the materials look good, but I don't know that is any nicer than an E-class or 5-series, at best it is on par with them.  And it doesn't have the power or performance of them, doesn't have any pedigree either.    G80 is a good effort, but not going to beat the big boys.

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15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

After seeing the new G80 launch and Q&A on Motor Trend, the car is nice.  The interior looks good, the materials look good, but I don't know that is any nicer than an E-class or 5-series, at best it is on par with them.  And it doesn't have the power or performance of them, doesn't have any pedigree either.    G80 is a good effort, but not going to beat the big boys.

It is never good enough with badge snobs.  Customers who do not worship the false god of German engineering will have a lot to like about the new G80.

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3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

It is never good enough with badge snobs.  Customers who do not worship the false god of German engineering will have a lot to like about the new G80.

G80 is supposed to start just under $50k, and the press car photos are no doubt more like $70k, so pretty close to German car money, G80 starts about $5k lower than E-class or 5-series.  

The G80 doesn't have more performance, it doesn't have a hybrid, it doesn't have any tech that isn't already on the competition.   Likewise with the GV80.  They haven't done anything better than what is already offered for roughly the same money.

So what's the appeal here?  Yes it is better than the Lexus GS which dies after 2020 model year, better than an Acura RLX or Lincoln Continental, both of which will probably be dead in a year or two, but aside from that, where are they finding buyers in a shrinking sedan segment?  Are they going to pull people out of SUVs into a G80?  Are they hoping Sonata drivers spend double the money and upgrade to G80?  I think this car will be a sales dud much like I predicted the Kia Stinger would flop and it has.  The Stinger should have been priced dollar to dollar even with a Mustang and been marketed as Mustang/Camaro with 4 doors that can fit a family.  Instead they tried to spin it as a 3-series competitor and that was huge miss.  

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Well it has a longer warranty than Mercedes-Benz, which will make it more attractive to people why BUY cars, rather than rent them and dump them.

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I don’t think an extra year of warranty is going to sway any buyers on a luxury car.

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Such a meh risk averse segment now these midsize lux sedans.. at least the Genesis is a different look inside and out that hasn't grown tired yet.

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don’t think an extra year of warranty is going to sway any buyers on a luxury car.

4 years/50k miles (including powertrain) with Benz, v. 10 years/100k miles on powertrain with Genesis.  Now, renting a car and dumping it, it would be a moot point, but buying the car with plans on getting your money's worth out of it over a span of 100k miles, Genesis wins.

Edited by ocnblu
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2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

4 years/50k miles (including powertrain) with Benz, v. 10 years/100k miles on powertrain with Genesis.  Now, renting a car and dumping it, it would be a moot point, but buying the car with plans on getting your money's worth out of it over a span of 100k miles, Genesis wins.

And yet their cars don't sell, even when under cutting competitors by $5k on G70 and G80 and offering a longer warranty.  What else they got?

I think they might gain a bit more traction in crossovers where Acura and Infiniti have dated product, the XT4, XT5 are nothing remarkable, Lincoln Nautilus is pretty average.   But Lexus and the Germans are pretty strong there too, we'll have to see how the GV70 looks when it hits as that is the key segment.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/8/2020 at 9:01 PM, smk4565 said:

And it doesn't have the power or performance of them, doesn't have any pedigree either.    G80 is a good effort, but not going to beat the big boys.

Doesn't need to beat the big boys (E Class and 5 Series), just everyone else.

And there should be a more powerful sport version on the way (too early for a full-fledged performance line).

 

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The G80 doesn't have more performance, it doesn't have a hybrid, it doesn't have any tech that isn't already on the competition.   Likewise with the GV80.  They haven't done anything better than what is already offered for roughly the same money.

 I think this car will be a sales dud much like I predicted the Kia Stinger would flop and it has.  The Stinger should have been priced dollar to dollar even with a Mustang and been marketed as Mustang/Camaro with 4 doors that can fit a family.  Instead they tried to spin it as a 3-series competitor and that was huge miss.  

Again, for most of its run, the Genesis sedan/G80 was the 3rd best seller in its segment, and should be once again when the new model launches.

After the original Genesis sedan launched, sales of the new GS and M/Q70 never came close to the prior generation.

While no hybrid planned (imo, should have gone w/ a 48V system as the default battery), there is an eG80 undergoing testing.

So, while no performance line (but a rumored, higher powered sport variant), at least not yet, the electric eG80 should be capable of performance along the lines of the M5, esp. as HMG owns a share in Rimac, which will be aiding in development of their performance electrics.

Something like the Stinger could never be brought to market at the price-point of a pony car.

Liftbacks cost more to develop and manufacture (which is why the 4 Series GC and A5 Sportback cost a good bit more than their 4-door sedan counterparts) and the Stinger is a premium model, so having a cheap interior like the pony cars was a no go.

For 2019, the Stinger sold about as well as the 4 Series GC (wasn't going after the 3 Series), and what has been exceeding sales expectations has been the sales of the 3.3TT V6 Stingers.

Yes, the 4 Series GC is pricier (which is typical for a new entrant and one being sold under a mainstream brand), but there's a fastback at pretty much the exact same price-point - the Arteon and the Stinger vastly outsells the VW.

What hasn't been meeting sales expectations has been the Stingers w/ the base 2.0T engine.

In markets like Australia, they pretty much only sell the V6 (and the higher trims at that) w/ many also opting for the pricey optional bi-modal exhaust.

Kia needs to boost sales of the base engine and we'll see soon enough if the upgrade to the new 2.5T motor, along w/ upgrades to the interior will do the trick.

 

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And yet their cars don't sell, even when under cutting competitors by $5k on G70 and G80 and offering a longer warranty.  What else they got?

I think they might gain a bit more traction in crossovers where Acura and Infiniti have dated product, the XT4, XT5 are nothing remarkable, Lincoln Nautilus is pretty average.   But Lexus and the Germans are pretty strong there too, we'll have to see how the GV70 looks when it hits as that is the key segment.

 

Problem w/ the G70 (like the ATS and XE) is its cramped interior space.

The Genesis/G80 has more interior space than the E Class and 5 Series, which is why it has regularly finished 3rd in sales after them.

The Lexus CUVs aren't really competitors to the upcoming Genesis CUVs as they are based on the CH-R, RAV-4 and Highlander.

The RX/RX-L (and MDX and QX60) have more to worry about from the top trims of the Telluride and Palisade.

 

 

Edited by bd1
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7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I don’t think an extra year of warranty is going to sway any buyers on a luxury car.

Lemmee get this straight.

6 years of more warranty isn’t going to sway any buyers... but 15 seconds quicker around a race course no one in this country will ever drive on will???

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5 hours ago, balthazar said:

Lemmee get this straight.

6 years of more warranty isn’t going to sway any buyers... but 15 seconds quicker around a race course no one in this country will ever drive on will???

Of course it will because it’s a Mercedes. Didn’t you know?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And yet their cars don't sell, even when under cutting competitors by $5k on G70 and G80 and offering a longer warranty.  What else they got?

I think they might gain a bit more traction in crossovers where Acura and Infiniti have dated product, the XT4, XT5 are nothing remarkable, Lincoln Nautilus is pretty average.   But Lexus and the Germans are pretty strong there too, we'll have to see how the GV70 looks when it hits as that is the key segment.

Why do you ignore the obvious? Besides the CUV craze, it’s biggest barrier to sales is dealer network. Do you honestly think Mercedes would sell worth a damn with the same number of dealerships as Genesis?

Edited by surreal1272
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Kia Stinger is rumored to die after just one generation.

 

Genesis has a bad dealer network but that is their fault, and own mismanagement of the brand launch.  In 2018 they had more dealers than Lexus before the closed half of them.  Still they have about 2/3rd the dealers of other luxury marques.  But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars.

Jaguar offers 5/60,000 bumper to bumper warranty with 5 years complimentary maintenance and 5 years roadside assistance.  Hasn’t helped sales any, they are still terrible.  Genesis offers 3 years complimentary maintenance.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Kia Stinger is rumored to die after just one generation.

 

Genesis has a bad dealer network but that is their fault, and own mismanagement of the brand launch.  In 2018 they had more dealers than Lexus before the closed half of them.  Still they have about 2/3rd the dealers of other luxury marques.  But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars.

Jaguar offers 5/60,000 bumper to bumper warranty with 5 years complimentary maintenance and 5 years roadside assistance.  Hasn’t helped sales any, they are still terrible.  Genesis offers 3 years complimentary maintenance.

 

“Bad dealer network” and not enough dealers are not the same thing. You pretty much confirmed that with your “ But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars.” Remark, which contradicts the rest of your post. Your Jaguar example is weak at best, as well because they are and always have been unreliable junk. Genesis, even in its short lifespan, has a much better track record in the reliability department. This is not even debatable. 

 

Oh and while their dealership count was cut almost in half, they are almost at that original count now (went down to 178 and is now at 318). Your “2/3” remark also supports my lack of network options. Stop contradicting yourself. Again, their lack of sales, aside from the CUV craze, is because of lack of dealerships, which you confirmed so I am not sure what point you are trying to make here but it fell flat.

 

One last thing. The Stinger is another horrible example on your part and you’re only partially right about it. It was not ever a 3 series competitor since it was clearly LARGER than the BMW. As it was already pointed out to you, it was a 4 series competitor, although not really even that. It problem is like many others before. Wrong car at the wrong time. Furthermore, yes it is rumored to be cut after only one generation. However, it is also getting a revisions and more power for 2021 so the rumor you posted may be just that, a rumor. 

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/07/2021-kia-stinger-spy-photos/

Edited by surreal1272
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7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

“Bad dealer network” and not enough dealers are not the same thing. You pretty much confirmed that with your “ But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars.” Remark, which contradicts the rest of your post. Your Jaguar example is weak at best, as well because they are and always have been unreliable junk. Genesis, even in its short lifespan, has a much better track record in the reliability department. This is not even debatable. 

 

Oh and while their dealership count was cut almost in half, they are almost at that original count now (went down to 178 and is now at 318). Your “2/3” remark also supports my lack of network options. Stop contradicting yourself. Again, their lack of sales, aside from the CUV craze, is because of lack of dealerships, which you confirmed so I am not sure what point you are trying to make here but it fell flat.

 

One last thing. The Stinger is another horrible example on your part and you’re only partially right about it. It was not ever a 3 series competitor since it was clearly LARGER than the BMW. As it was already pointed out to you, it was a 4 series competitor, although not really even that. It problem is like many others before. Wrong car at the wrong time. Furthermore, yes it is rumored to be cut after only one generation. However, it is also getting a revisions and more power for 2021 so the rumor you posted may be just that, a rumor. 

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/07/2021-kia-stinger-spy-photos/

By bad dealer network I didn't mean the dealerships themselves were bad, but that the network was too small.  

Now if they are back to 318 dealerships, that is about what Lexus has, BMW and Mercedes have about 350-360.  So Genesis isn't that out numbered and yet their sales volume is very low.  Mostly that low volume is no crossovers, but crossovers have been on the rise for 10 years.  Why on earth did they launch a brand with 3 sedans first, before making a crossover?  That is totally incompetent management.

 

Genesis has better reliability than Jaguar,  but warranty didn't help Jaguar, and it isn't helping Genesis either.  Unless by not offering a 5 year warranty, their sales would drop even more.   Genesis is trying to make an argument that they have the more reliable car with the best warranty, but Lexus already has that reliability title built over decades.  

The Stinger is larger than a 3-series sure, but Kia positioned that car as premium sports sedan and some of the German sedan names were thrown around.  When really no one wants a $50,000 Kia, even if it has 365 hp.  You can get a 400 hp Mustang for $40k and the interior is about the same.  Even within Kia, the Telluride has a better interior than the Stinger and the Telluride is a 3 row SUV with AWD that should cost more than a 2 wheel drive mid-size sedan.  Stinger was the wrong car because of where they priced it in the market.  I could also argue that a performance SUV might have sold, in a sea of FWD crossovers like Edge, Blazer, Passport, etc, if the Stringer was a 365 hp rear drive SUV priced int he $30-40k range with that bunch it could have been a success.

 

So the big problem with Hyundai/Kia/Genesis is timing.  These guys do what the Germans did 10 years ago, because by the time they copy the idea, design the car, get the budget, build the models, wind tunnel it, track test it, crash test it, etc then get it to production, they are a generation behind where the market is. 

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17 hours ago, balthazar said:

Lemmee get this straight.

6 years of more warranty isn’t going to sway any buyers... but 15 seconds quicker around a race course no one in this country will ever drive on will???

6 years of powertrain warranty, but only 1 year of bumper to bumper.  Something that doesn't matter to a lease customer, which is the majority of the luxury market.    That extra warranty may help, selling cars at 80% the cost of rivals I am sure helps, but Genesis still has really low sales figures.  So clearly what they have done isn't enough.  

The Nurburgring is more about the engineering that went into the car.  Is this Genesis a fancy Hyundai, or does it have Porsche or Mercedes level engineering?  I know Genesis has it's own rear drive platform, but do they have engineers at Genesis that can make a G80 perform on par with a mid-engine super car, because the Germans have engineers that can. 

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17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

By bad dealer network I didn't mean the dealerships themselves were bad, but that the network was too small.  

Now if they are back to 318 dealerships, that is about what Lexus has, BMW and Mercedes have about 350-360.  So Genesis isn't that out numbered and yet their sales volume is very low.  Mostly that low volume is no crossovers, but crossovers have been on the rise for 10 years.  Why on earth did they launch a brand with 3 sedans first, before making a crossover?  That is totally incompetent management.

 

Genesis has better reliability than Jaguar,  but warranty didn't help Jaguar, and it isn't helping Genesis either.  Unless by not offering a 5 year warranty, their sales would drop even more.   Genesis is trying to make an argument that they have the more reliable car with the best warranty, but Lexus already has that reliability title built over decades.  

The Stinger is larger than a 3-series sure, but Kia positioned that car as premium sports sedan and some of the German sedan names were thrown around.  When really no one wants a $50,000 Kia, even if it has 365 hp.  You can get a 400 hp Mustang for $40k and the interior is about the same.  Even within Kia, the Telluride has a better interior than the Stinger and the Telluride is a 3 row SUV with AWD that should cost more than a 2 wheel drive mid-size sedan.  Stinger was the wrong car because of where they priced it in the market.  I could also argue that a performance SUV might have sold, in a sea of FWD crossovers like Edge, Blazer, Passport, etc, if the Stringer was a 365 hp rear drive SUV priced int he $30-40k range with that bunch it could have been a success.

 

So the big problem with Hyundai/Kia/Genesis is timing.  These guys do what the Germans did 10 years ago, because by the time they copy the idea, design the car, get the budget, build the models, wind tunnel it, track test it, crash test it, etc then get it to production, they are a generation behind where the market is. 

You clearly did not read the article posted. It was just the lack of dealerships. It was the lack of inventory. Just stop the goal post moving. 

 

And for the love of god, STOP comparing a FOUR DOOR Kia (with a hatch) to Mustangs and Camaros. Same applies to comparing a Stinger to a Telluride. This simply not an apples to apples comparison in any way shape or form. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

You clearly did not read the article posted. It was just the lack of dealerships. It was the lack of inventory. Just stop the goal post moving. 

 

And for the love of god, STOP comparing a FOUR DOOR Kia (with a hatch) to Mustangs and Camaros. Same applies to comparing a Stinger to a Telluride. This simply not an apples to apples comparison in any way shape or form. 

Here's the thing about Genesis:  the model line up, the dealer network, the inventory, those are all things they control.  Any miscue with those is self inflicted.  Things their management screwed up.  If they can't get basics like dealer network and inventory right, I don't know how they get to building vehicles considered among the best in the world.  

More power isn't going to save the Stinger, the car is priced wrong.  SUVs have crushed sedan sales because buyers needed more room, more cargo space, wanted AWD, etc.  Coupes are almost disappearing from the market, because buyers want more space, back seats, etc.  

The Toyota Camry's drop in volume is mostly because of the RAV4.  That is where the sales went.  Today's RAV4 segment is the mid-size sedan segment of 15 years ago.  Today's sedan market is the coupe market of 20 years ago.  Kia should have gone after buyers that wanted a sports car like a Camaro/Mustang/BRZ but need 4 doors and all wheel drive.  They marketed the car to the wrong people, on top of pricing it wrong.  

 

My comparison with Telluride is only that the Telluride has a nice interior, the Stinger doesn't and they come from the same company.  Telluride is best in class interior, the Stinger is probably the worst interior you can get for a car of that price point.

Edited by smk4565

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OEMs only have so much control over the dealer network, since they all are independently owned franchises. They can help direct placement and influence dealer appearance, but OEMs can't open dealerships. They can only offer a franchise to another party that wants to.

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12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Here's the thing about Genesis:  the model line up, the dealer network, the inventory, those are all things they control.  Any miscue with those is self inflicted.  Things their management screwed up.  If they can't get basics like dealer network and inventory right, I don't know how they get to building vehicles considered among the best in the world.  

More power isn't going to save the Stinger, the car is priced wrong.  SUVs have crushed sedan sales because buyers needed more room, more cargo space, wanted AWD, etc.  Coupes are almost disappearing from the market, because buyers want more space, back seats, etc.  

The Toyota Camry's drop in volume is mostly because of the RAV4.  That is where the sales went.  Today's RAV4 segment is the mid-size sedan segment of 15 years ago.  Today's sedan market is the coupe market of 20 years ago.  Kia should have gone after buyers that wanted a sports car like a Camaro/Mustang/BRZ but need 4 doors and all wheel drive.  They marketed the car to the wrong people, on top of pricing it wrong.  

 

My comparison with Telluride is only that the Telluride has a nice interior, the Stinger doesn't and they come from the same company.  Telluride is best in class interior, the Stinger is probably the worst interior you can get for a car of that price point.

Talks about cars being priced wrong while Benz sells $60K A Class cars that are smaller than your average Honda Civic. Seriously. 

 

That poor bar gets a lot of work from you, what with all the moving but since you want to bring up Genesis and their dealer network as it relates to sales, I wonder how you would felt about Benz 55 years ago when they struggled even more when they entered the US market.

 

 

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You also have to adjust for badge snobbery.  MB/BMW were poor sellers prior to the 1980s.  Lexus was nothing prior to 1990, then went from strength to strength.  Now Genesis is where Lexus was about 25 years ago.  They do NEED more crossovers than just the GV80, and really soon.

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    • By William Maley
      Previous Page Next Page You might not be able to tell that the 2021 Ford F-150 is all new. The shape, basic dimensions, and ladder-frame chassis are the same as the outgoing F-150. But you need to look a bit deeper to find the changes and new features that the blue oval hopes keeps their truck on top.
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      Source: Ford
      Press Release is on Page 2
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      ᶧProjected EPA calculated range. Actual range will vary. Final EPA-estimated ratings available later in the 2020 calendar year.
      Previous Page Next Page
      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Previous Page Next Page You might not be able to tell that the 2021 Ford F-150 is all new. The shape, basic dimensions, and ladder-frame chassis are the same as the outgoing F-150. But you need to look a bit deeper to find the changes and new features that the blue oval hopes keeps their truck on top.
      PowerBoost? PowerBoost.
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      Generator? I Have My Truck.
      Pro Power Onboard turns the F-150 into a generator to power various electrical devices no matter where you are. It comes standard on the Hybrid providing 2.4kW, or 7.2kW via an option. All engines except the base 3.3L V6 get it as a option that provides 2.0kW. There are two 120-volt, 20-amp outlets for the 2.0 and 2.4kW systems, and 7.2kW system boasts four 12-volt outlets and a 240-volt, 30-amp outlet for higher draw equipment.
      You Want Tech!? We Have It and A Kitchen Sink as Well
      Ford is going all-in on offering all sorts of tech on the 2021 F-150. It begins up front with the introduction of Sync 4 that brings forth faster processing power, better voice recognition, and over-the-air updates. An eight-inch screen will be standard on lower-end models, while a 12-inch screen is available on XLT and higher-trims. The larger screen also brings forth wireless CarPlay and Android Auto. 
      Next up comes CoPilot 360 2.0, Ford's suite of active safety features. All models boast pre-collision assist with automatic braking, pedestrian detection, and automatic high beams. Move up to the XLT and above and you'll get lane-keep assist, parking sensors, reverse brake-assist, and a post-impact braking system. 
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      Other Details to Know
      All engines carry over from the previous generation, which includes the 3.3L V6, 2.7L EcoBoost, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L V8, and 3.0L PowerStroke Diesel. No more six-speed automatic, all engines now come paired with an ten-speed automatic. Ford will be offering eleven different grille designs, and fourteen wheel choices - ranging in size from 17 to 22-inches. The front seats can recline up to 180-degrees. Center console can transform into a work-area for a 15-inch laptop by opening and folding the lid. The transmission selector on floor console models folds down flat to make room. We'll likely get more details dripped out before the 2021 F-150 arrives at dealers this fall.
      Source: Ford
      Press Release is on Page 2
      BUILT FOR GETTING THINGS DONE, FORD REVEALS THE TOUGHEST, MOST PRODUCTIVE F-150 EVER AND MOST POWERFUL IN ITS CLASS
      All-new Ford F-150 takes America’s truck of choice for work and recreation to the next level, targeting to deliver the most maximum towing, payload, torque and horsepower of any full-size light-duty pickup, with ingenious features that make customers even more productive and new technology like over-the-air updates and SYNC® 4 New exterior design has a bolder and even tougher look, and an all-new interior provides more comfort, technology and functionality for truck customers, along with enhanced materials, new color choices and more storage New available Tailgate Work Surface boosts productivity at the back of the truck, while new optional Interior Work Surface makes using a laptop or eating a meal more comfortable; available Max Recline Seats with nearly 180 degrees of recline help customers rest between jobs Available Pro Power Onboard™ means customers can leave the generator at home and free up cargo space; there’s enough energy to power 28 average refrigerators, charge a bed full of electric dirt bikes or run an entire job site worth of tools Class-exclusive 3.5-liter PowerBoost™ Full hybrid engine delivers Built Ford Tough capability – it is targeted to have the most torque and horsepower of any light-duty full-size pickup, at least 12,000 pounds of maximum available towing capacityᶧ and a targeted EPA-estimated range of approximately 700 miles on a single tank of gasᶧ DEARBORN, Mich., June 25, 2020 – As America returns to work, Ford reveals its all-new F-150 – part of the F-Series lineup that’s been America’s choice for getting the job done for 43 consecutive years. The all-new F-150 is purpose-built to be the toughest, most productive F-150 ever and targeted to be the most powerful light-duty full-size pickup truck on the market.
      “Since 1948, our hardworking F-Series customers have trusted Ford to help them get the job done,” said Jim Farley, Ford’s chief operating officer. “F-150 is our flagship, it’s 100 percent assembled in America, and we hold ourselves to the highest standard to make sure our customers can get the job done and continue to make a difference in their communities.”
      The all-new F-150 raises the standard for all light-duty trucks. It targets the most towing, payload, torque and horsepower of any light-duty full-size pickup, introduces all-new features to increase customer productivity, has new connected vehicle innovations such as over-the-air updates that help keep F-150 at the forefront of purposeful technology, and an available all-new 3.5-liter PowerBoost™ hybrid powertrain with Pro Power Onboard™ – an integrated power generator.
      “We see it as our duty to deliver not just what our customers want and need, but what they might have never thought possible,” said Craig Schmatz, Ford F-150 chief engineer. “The F-150 will be tougher than ever, and with fully connected over-the-air updates, it opens up a much wider range of potential enhancements – from system upgrades to feature offerings.”
      Toughest F-150 ever
      The all-new F-150 starts with a durable, proven foundation – a fully boxed high-strength steel frame with a high-strength, military-grade, aluminum alloy body. Every panel of the distinctive, rugged exterior is redesigned while maintaining its bold and tough signature look, including an updated headlamp design, new power dome hood and wrap-around bumpers. Higher front fenders, a tucked-in midsection and larger-diameter tires pulled out three-quarters of an inch create a stronger, more powerful stance on and off the road.
      There are 11 grille options available across the series lineup, all differentiated in their design and all unmistakably F-150, plus new tailgate appliqués. Functional upgrades throughout include available LED headlamps and taillamps, and available full-length extended power running boards with kick switch that provide better truck-side cargo box accessibility.
      The all-new F-150 is also the most aerodynamic ever. New active grille shutters, a new automatically deploying active air dam, and new cab and tailgate geometry all work together to reduce drag and improve fuel consumption on every truck.
      The interior is completely redesigned to elevate truck owners’ experience with style, comfort, utility and technology. Featuring enhanced materials, new color choices and more storage, it is built around the functional needs of truck customers. Every surface has been thoughtfully designed, such as more soil-resistant two-tone seats for XL or the new standard dual glovebox.
      F-150 introduces an all-new 12-inch center screen – standard on XLT high series and above – that allows customers to split the screen and control multiple functions simultaneously, including navigation, music or truck features. The landscape design strikes a balance between demands for technology accessibility and the greater convenience of physical buttons. An 8-inch touch screen, standard on XL and XLT standard and mid-series trucks, means every customer gets touch screen functionality and better rearview camera vision. Both screens feature access to the new digital owner’s manual, which can help all customers find the information they need more easily, including how-to videos for additional explanation.
      An available new 12-inch digital gauge cluster features a large information-on-demand area, along with truck-specific graphics and animations that respond to the all-new F-150’s selectable drive modes and can display off-roading data and turn-by-turn navigation.
      Most productive F-150 ever
      Ford’s deep understanding of truck customers informs new features on the all-new F-150 that help take productivity to the next level.
      Creating the ultimate durable, anywhere office, F-150’s new optional Interior Work Surface is ideal for signing documents, working on a 15-inch laptop or enjoying a meal when parked. It is available in both bench and captain’s chair seating configurations on XL to Limited. Knowing many customers prefer a console shifter, Ford has created a stowable unit for F-150, which easily folds into the center console with the push of a button and allows full access to the large work surface when in park.
      Class-exclusive Max Recline Seats available on King Ranch, Platinum and Limited models provide ultimate comfort during downtime. Max Recline Seats fold flat to nearly 180 degrees, with the bottom cushion rising to meet the back cushion and the upper back support rotating forward up to 10 degrees for maximum comfort.
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      Every all-new F-150 comes standard with new cleats mounted to the sides of the tailgate to act as tie-down locations for extra-long items in the bed. New clamp pockets are built in to the tailgate of every truck, so customers can hold materials down for precision work. An available flat Tailgate Work Surface also includes integrated rulers, a mobile device holder, cupholder and pencil holder.
      Customers can keep going into the night with exclusive available Zone Lighting. This allows occupants to turn on and off individual sections of exterior lights through the SYNC® 4 screen or remotely with the FordPass app on their phone, so they never have to work, camp or do anything in the dark.
      The all-new F-150 is the only light-duty full-size pickup to offer available Trailer Reverse Guidance and Pro Trailer Backup Assist. Trailer Reverse Guidance, made popular on Super Duty, uses the truck’s high-resolution cameras to provide multiple views along with helpful graphics that tell drivers which way to turn the steering wheel while backing up. Pro Trailer Backup Assist, which makes backing up a trailer as easy as turning a dial, continues on F-150.
      Most powerful in its class
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      PowerBoost combines Ford’s proven EcoBoost engine and 10-speed SelectShift® automatic transmission with a 35-kilowatt (47-horsepower) electric motor integrated into the transmission, as well as software calibrated specially for truck use, including drive modes like tow/haul mode to help customers better manage towing heavy trailers.
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      Power isn’t only important under the hood. Available Pro Power Onboard expands F-150’s capability by bringing generator levels of exportable power to work sites, camp sites and everyday life. Pro Power Onboard is available with a 2.0-kilowatt output on optional gas engines, while PowerBoost-equipped F-150 comes standard with 2.4 kilowatts of output or an optional 7.2 kilowatts of output. Power is accessible through in-cabin outlets and up to four cargo bed-mounted 120-volt 20-amp outlets, with a 240-volt 30-amp outlet on the 7.2-kilowatt version. The system even provides power on the move to charge tool batteries in between jobs.
      Most connected F-150 ever
      F-150 represents Ford’s next big step in bringing connected vehicles to customers. The all-new F-150 is North America’s first full-size pickup with standard over-the-air updates, helping customers’ trucks stay at the forefront of purposeful technology. These updates are bumper-to-bumper, and can include all-new functions and additional features throughout the life of the truck. They can support preventative maintenance, reduce repair trips, provide improved performance and ultimately result in more vehicle up-time. The majority of updates will be completed in under two minutes and can be performed at times customers choose, so they won’t have to put their lives on hold.
      All-new SYNC 4 is standard, helping keep owners connected and make their days more productive with more natural voice control available as well as real-time mapping and customizable information on demand. The technology builds on more than 10 years of SYNC innovation by helping minimize distractions with hands-free voice control as well as core features such as making phone calls and selecting music. With twice the computing power of the previous-generation system, new SYNC 4 can wirelessly connect smartphones without the USB cord for seamless integration of Apple CarPlay™ or Android Auto™ compatibility as well as SYNC AppLink® apps like Waze and Ford+Alexa.
      Customers can access more than 10,000 hours of on-demand content, live channels, ad-free music, sports, entertainment, news and personalized recommendations, and they can search for related content with available SiriusXM with 360L satellite and streaming service. The new eight-speaker B&O Sound System by Bang & Olufsen is available starting on F-150 XLT, while the optional 18-speaker B&O Unleashed system with speakers in the headliner and front headrests is available on F-150 Lariat, King Ranch and Platinum, and standard on Limited.
      Ford offers complimentary technology including 911 Assist® that automatically alerts emergency responders in the event of an accident, and FordPass, a mobile device app that allows Ford drivers to start or unlock their vehicle from a distance, as well as control new truck-focused features like Zone Lighting, Trailer Theft Alert, Trailer Light Check and Pro Power Onboard.
      Driver-assist technologies
      All-new F-150 offers the latest driver-assist features as part of Ford Co-Pilot360™ 2.0. More features are now standard on XL, including Pre-Collision Assist with Automatic Emergency Braking and Pedestrian Detection to help avoid a possible collision with another vehicle or a pedestrian, rearview camera with dynamic hitch assist, auto high-beam headlamps and auto on/off headlamps.
      F-150 also adds 10 new driver-assist features and is the only pickup to offer Active Drive Assist, which allows for hands-free driving on more than 100,000 miles of divided highways in all 50 states and Canada. Its advanced driver-facing camera tracks head position and driver eye gaze to enable hands-free driving when available. It allows owners on certain sections of pre-mapped, divided highways to drive with their hands off the steering wheel – if they continue to pay attention to the road ahead – granting them an additional level of comfort during long drives. The Active Drive Assist prep kit contains the hardware required for this feature, while the software to enable functionality, expected in the third quarter of the 2021 calendar year, will be delivered by over-the-air update or dealer visit. Separate payment will be required to activate full functionality at that time.
      Other new available features include Intersection Assist, which detects oncoming traffic while the driver is attempting a left turn. If there is risk of a collision with an oncoming vehicle, F-150 will apply the brakes to mitigate or avoid it. F-150 is the only light-duty full-size pickup with available Active Park Assist 2.0, which handles all steering, shifting, braking and accelerator controls during a parallel or perpendicular parking maneuver while the driver holds down a button.
      Every F-150 is proudly assembled at Ford’s Dearborn Truck Plant in Dearborn, Michigan, and Kansas City Assembly Plant in Claycomo, Missouri. The all-new F-150 will be available this fall.
      ᶧProjected EPA calculated range. Actual range will vary. Final EPA-estimated ratings available later in the 2020 calendar year.
      Previous Page Next Page
    • By William Maley
      Volkswagen unveiled an updated 2021 Arteon tonight. Now you might be thinking this is a quick turn around as the Arteon has been on sale in the U.S. for only a year. But you need to keep in mind that Volkswagen has been selling the Arteon in Europe since 2018, so a refresh was in the cards.
      Changes for the exterior are subtile with a more prominent grille, new lighting, updated Volkswagen badging, and new choices for paint and wheels. The interior is a bit more dramatic with updated dash featuring revised air vents and climate control system with touch controls. A new steering wheel with touch controls, improved materials, and the 10.25-inch Digital Cockpit becoming standard on all Arteons finishes off the changes.
      Power for the U.S. will remain the turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder with 268 horsepower and 258 pound-feet of torque. This is paired with an eight-speed automatic that routes power to either the front or Volkswagen's 4Motion all-wheel drive system.
      There are some versions we'll be missing out on such as a new Shooting Brake (aka wagon), a 315 horsepower R model, and a plug-in hybrid powertrain.
      No word on pricing, but you'll be able to pick up a 2021 Arteon at your Volkswagen dealer sometime in November.
      Source: Volkswagen
      Press Release is on Page 2


      2021 Volkswagen Arteon world premiere

      Jun 23, 2020
      Brand halo is updated inside and out—a new front end impresses with sharpened design elements and available illuminated grille, while inside, a new cockpit offers greater levels of refinement Digital Cockpit standard across lineup European offering includes new Arteon Shooting Brake, as well as plug-in hybrid (160 kW / 218 PS) and Volkswagen R-developed performance (235 kW / 320 PS) powertrains Herndon, VA — The Arteon is Volkswagen’s Gran Turismo—marrying the sleek design of a premium coupe to the space of a midsize sedan. For 2021, Volkswagen is introducing an extensive product line update to the brand halo, including sharpened design elements, interior refinements, and intelligent comfort systems. In Europe, Volkswagen is enhancing the product line with a second version—the new Arteon Shooting Brake—alongside new powertrain options including a plug-in hybrid drivetrain generating 160 kW (218 PS) and Arteon R versions with 235 kW (320 PS).
      For 2021, the U.S. market Volkswagen Arteon features a simplified trim lineup—SE, SEL R-Line, and SEL Premium R-Line.
      Exterior
      The refreshed Arteon features a refined front end with sharpened design elements. The long, wide hood stretches across the entire front profile to the wheelarches to form the shoulder section. At the front it reaches far down into the grille, emphasizing the ample width of the Arteon with its crossbars. It’s not just avant-garde, it’s also aerodynamic—with a drag coefficient of a mere 0.265.
      For the first time, the Arteon can also be configured with an illuminated grille. On midrange models, new LED daytime running lights (DRLs) connect to form a central light bar in the grille, surrounding the new Volkswagen logo and using light as the new chrome. Consequently, the Arteon has been given a new and unmistakable daytime and night-time lighting signature.
      The lower section of the front profile, the front apron, has also been modified. Up to now, this area featured four chrome bars. These have now been transformed into three significantly more striking chrome bars. The outer and bottom segments of the front apron are always the same color as the vehicle’s paintwork (except the lateral air intake grilles). How the equipment scopes differ: the SE trim now has two additional, separate air intake openings in front of the front wheels, as well as a chrome bar that has been integrated above the front spoiler. In contrast, the R-Line features one larger, continuous, bottom air intake above the front spoiler that is surrounded by a C-shaped section on the outside in front of the front wheels, which has been painted in the main vehicle color.
      As drawn, the character line runs around the entire car. It visually presses the body’s volume downward to the ground, giving it a dynamic appearance. The character line starts in the radiator grille at the front and runs smoothly across the silhouette up to the tail light clusters. At the rear it transforms into a sharp undercut that visually reduces the Arteon’s height and carries the strong shoulder section towards the rear. At the rear, the VW badge and Arteon lettering have been redesigned.
      Three new colors are added for model year 2021—Oryx White, Kings Red Metallic, and Lapiz Blue.
      Interior
      On the inside, Arteon has been equipped with a redesigned cockpit that has been refined to match the model’s exclusive nature. Volkswagen’s interior designers have redesigned the entire dash panel—consisting of surfaces, air outlets, and trims—the center console, including infotainment section and air-conditioning control, and the top sections of the door trims. The fabrics and leather in the vehicle interior have also been upgraded.
      At the dash panel’s top-most level, new leatherette surfaces stand out by having been refined are more pronounced with decorative seams to visually build a bridge to Volkswagen’s luxury-class SUV, the Touareg. On the second level, new aluminum décor graces base models, while midrange models offer translucent aluminum décor with 30-color ambient lighting The air outlets, stretching up to the third dash panel level, have been redesigned and also fully integrated here.
      A new generation of multifunction steering wheels featuring digital touch surfaces are used in the Arteon. In combination with the Travel Assist system (see below), the steering wheel rim additionally features touch-sensitive surfaces which, once Travel Assist has been activated, detect whether the driver has at least one hand on the steering wheel for safety reasons.
      The temperature can now be set intuitively via a touchslider for the optional three-zone Climatronic® automatic climate control. The same applies to the blower function in the manual mode. Seat heating, windscreen and window defrosting functions as well as other air conditioner regulations are also controlled using new touch-sensitive surfaces in the center console.
      The Arteon is equipped with the Volkswagen Digital Cockpit, which allows the driver to configure the instrument display. The graphics of the 10.25-inch display are clear and of a high quality. The driver can quickly and easily switch between three basic layouts using a View button on the multifunction steering wheel.
      Arteon adopts the all-new MIB3 infotainment system, integrated in a clearly visible and easy-to-reach position above the new air-conditioning controls. All models come standard with the 8.0-inch Discover Media system with navigation. MIB3 offers natural voice control, multi-phone pairing that can easily switch between devices, and wireless App-Connect. Wireless charging is also new for 2021.
      Volkswagen is also offering a newly developed, high-end sound system made by audio specialists harman/kardon for the very first time. It has been specifically geared towards the Arteon product line. The system uses a 700-watt, 16-channel Ethernet amplifier to power a total of twelve high-performance loudspeakers. One loudspeaker acts as the center speaker in the newly designed dash panel while another operates as a subwoofer in the trunk. The remaining treble, mid-range, and bass loudspeakers have been arranged in the doors. The infotainment system coordinates the individual sound control of the harman/kardon sound system which also provides pre-configured settings, such as Pure, Chill out, Live and Energy.
      Powertrain
      The Arteon is powered by a 2.0-liter turbocharged and direct-injection TSI® engine, making 268 horsepower and 258 pound-feet of torque. The power is taken to the front wheels via a standard eight-speed automatic transmission with Tiptronic® shifting; 4Motion all-wheel drive is available on SEL R-Line models and standard on SEL Premium R-Line models.

      View full article
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