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I'm holding out for one of these, promised in the 1960s (still waiting) :

Automakers have to evolve to survive. Powertrain technology, like all technology, evolves over time. If transportation modes didn't evolve, we'd still be using horse and buggy like the Amish who choose to literally live in the past. Who wants to live like that?

no need for the ( @Robert Hall ) red 26inch spinner wheel .. its inherently smooth.. Travel range seems to uptick yearly. An upstart company is estimating their pick-up is going to get 400 miles in range on a charge... 50% of that in 30 minutes if I am correct

I'm really missing something with your opposition to these possible changes @ocnblu. Is it a hate of all things associated with EV or U just have a strong love of the ICE? It is the future one has to believe. If one can build a vehicle that is more efficient in all way plus gives better performance right out the box.. why would anyone oppose the technological advancements? The price hike? While the Tesla models are not ones to call to answer the possibility of recouping purchase premiums via fuel savings alone.. a Bolt for instance could easily save an owner more money in fuel costs and maintenance versus a similar sized vehicle costing $4-5K less. Again I tout 4 V8s, 2 S/Ced, one V6 with over 305HP and a 4cyl Turbo. Let them say the Escala is coming, and there is an EV only version with with 400 range, 0-60 in 3.5 or below and a price tag of $100-110K.. My desire to have a CT6-V DIES immediately

An EV will not work for a lot of people right now. But in 2030, who knows? Uber and Lyft may replace private car ownership in a lot of large dense cities by then. Where I live, not necessarily.

The loaded 2500HDs and Ford Platinums and Limiteds, etc are way up there though... For instance, the local GMC dealer has 7 Sierra 2500 crew cabs in stock--ranging from 59k to 74k. The local Chevy dealer has two Chevy 3500 HDs--$68 and $69k. Though I don't see the Rivian competing with those bloated monster trucks. <marketing> It's an urban 'lifestyle vehicle' for active adults who go in the outdoors on the weekends... </marketing>

Yet none of us really know the long range roll out of new auto's. GM could very well have a segment leading Cruze size EV that will beat them all with far less maintenance required, 300 mile range being more than enough for going to and from work and running errands with the convenience of plugging it in at night at home than running down to the dirty smelly gas station, standing out in the cold and rain or heat of the south. GM is killing off auto's that are selling poorly, but we have not seen the full poker hand yet of what EVs they will introduce that can possibly replace them. I believe GM will have like product that are hybrids or pure electric that will more than make up for the loss of these auto's. Right now not killing off the Sonic and Spark is a Smart move to keep them in that segment when the cost of Batteries is still very high and density is not there yet for such a small package. Solid State batteries such as the breakthroughs that have happened this year alone, https://www.carscoops.com/2018/12/honda-announces-fluoride-ion-battery-breakthrough-allow-batteries-10x-energy-density/ So while we have these technologies that are coming, we also still have breakthroughs in traditional battery design also. https://insideevs.com/did-u-of-m-come-up-with-solid-state-battery-breakthrough/ University of Michigan just released their details on how they can build a stabalized Li battery pack that takes only 15% of the normal time to charge. That is a huge decrease in charging times when we know that Li heats up and can explode when charged too fast without proper cooling. Finding a way to reduce charge times on existing batteries till solid state goes into production is great. Way to look at this is a normal EV charging at home in 8hrs now only takes 15% of that time or 1hr 20 min. Skateboard concept Cruze EV that has way more interior room, far less maintenance with recharging you could do from home will sell well to the masses.

Depends on Millinials. Lots of them want electrics.

My Point!!! Problem is.. and as has been pointed out several times in this very thread.. THEY DON'T. "Call Uber" is their answer very often

uuum Yeah. Its a 26inch Spinner rim.. from the early 2000s ?

Something red with holes. Looks like a strange custom wheel, but probably not.

It was probably your great-great grandfather back in 1902 that said.. " I don't want no damn motorized vehicle... I give up my horse when they pry it from between my cold dead thighs"?

Minus the very last part (they will be part of it) Ocn is pretty much right on. GM is pulling a bonehead move dumping the Cruze when the Sonic and the Spark make more sense to dump. Offer different level of the Cruze base model to make up for the loss of the tiny cars-ans cover a larger range of customers. Then, only after they grow with you-they can jump into other products. Kia is already gaining ground-and the Chinese are not far behind ......

Saw them in concert in Japan when they were on tour with the Music for the Masses. I also really like the Violator album, but otherwise all they have.

Is it anti-American to pay your taxes? Instead of paying for an American made product whose company and workers pay US taxes, US wages and comply with US employment laws, you pay a TARIFF to buy a product whose manufacturer pay no US taxes, no US wages and comply with no US laws. I think that's fair. Who is dramatically reducing your choices? You can buy all the imports you want; it just won't cost less than US made stuff. What is not fair is to have US taxes, US wages and US laws which result in that iPhone being $1000 if made in the USA, and at the same time having no tariff so you can buy it for $500 from some Foxconn factory in China which pays no US taxes, no US wages and comply with no US laws! How is that ever going to work anyway? On one hand you want a high standard of wages, benefits and safety for American workers which then causes American made stuff to be more expensive. On the other hand, you want to allow companies to make the same product in another country without the high wages, benefits and safety for a lot less and sell it in the USA with no tariff? No wonder we send over $800 billion -- more than we ever spent on Defense, Education or Infrastructure -- overseas every year more than we bring in! It's time to forget the "Free Trade is Great" nonsense the media and your stupid professors have been selling you for decades, and wake up to Common Sense!

When one automaker comes up with an interesting idea, usually others will follow. See German crossover 'coupes' as an example. With Ford working on a hybrid version of the Mustang, it doesn't come as a surprise that Chevrolet is looking into this as well. Back in August, a poster on the Camaro6 forum got a screenshot with a survey asking Camaro owners which powertrain they would consider if they bought a new sports car. Respondents were given the four choices listed below, or None of the Above: 4 Cylinder, 2.7L, Turbo engine, 310 HP, 25 mpg combined, 0-60 mph in 5.2 seconds - $0 4 Cylinder, 2.0L, Hybrid Turbo engine, 365 HP (total system power), 30 mpg combined, 0-60 mph in 4.4 seconds - $4,000 8 Cylinder, 6.2L, 455 HP, 20 mpg combined, 0-60 mph in 4.0 seconds - $4,000 8 Cylinder, 6.2L, Hybrid engine, 545 HP (total system power), 24 mpg combined, 0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds - $8,000 There are few things to take note of, No V6 option is listed among the choices The turbo 2.7L is likely the same found in the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra. Also, the 310 horsepower output is the same as Ford's 2.3L EcoBoost. The turbocharged 2.0L hybrid sees a one second drop in 0-60 mph time when compared to the standard 2.0L. Plus, the combined figure rises 5 to 7 mpg - depending on the transmission. The V8 hybrid setup only sees a 0.3-second decrease in the 0-60 mph run, but an increase of 4 mpgs. We need to note that the results of this survey might not result in a hybrid Camaro. "We routinely survey our customers across all of our vehicles on potential future technologies or features, but that doesn’t mean we are going to institute them,” a GM spokesman told Motor Authority. But it is clear that GM is watching Ford closely with the hybrid Mustang. Who knows, maybe the next-generation Camaro will offer some sort of hybrid power? Source: Camaro6, Motor Authority View full article

When I was a young teenager, a couple times I went to a different barbershop than the usual. They draped the typical cloth over me, but the cartoon print on it was skiers and hikers traversing giant naked female bodies. Nothing graphic, but still kinda surprising to be covered with near life-size boobs, buttocks & legs. Anyway, I kinda assumed that's the sort of thing VR goggles were for. :D

Maybe combine a Segway w/ VR goggles. On a related thought, I saw a video of guy wearing VR goggles hooked up to a GoPro and walking around sidewalks, a mall, etc and saying that he was in a VR environment that looked like...walking on sidewalks and around a mall...

I now see why Ocnblu is so opposed to electrics...obviously an electric car fornicated with his washer dryer combo and this is the illegitimate spawn of that unholy union. Ummmm....yeah....glad I have my Cannondale. Two wheels and manual everything for the win here.

Like Jazz? Toshiki Kadomatsu is awesome, came to the US and studied for 20+ years under various Jazz musicians. Went back home to Japan and started to turn out some amazing jazz. While I work currently listening to my first Album I got of him while in college in Japan. 1989,

2030, 11 years from now, I would truly be surprised if EV vehicles were 25% of the market.

Found this pic and article over on Allpar...https://www.allpar.com/news/2018/12/the-next-generation-ram-heavy-duty-without-camo-43083 Looks good....lots of chrome, but tasteful and not aggressively ugly like the new Silverado HD.

Talk to me when you can get a Rivian 'way down there' at $50K. Quick google image search gave me this : Pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop goes the snow plow. I'm sure there are other options, and more coming. But the fact remains that NOW, if I lived in the city and had to park on the street in various spots, an EV is NOT going to work for me. That's inarguable.

Here maybe, but elsewhere in the world Hyundai/KIA fits right in.

Per already being done for people who live in the inner city, pads are part of the cement parking spots in buildings, so nothing to mess up, just pull in and park. On the city streets, the parking spots are marked that have wifi charging, you just pull over and park. No problems with plowing or anything else, these are either installed when new construction happens or retrofit by PSE and the city to have a wide assortment of charging spots for EVs. Just a matter of looking at the needs of the people and planning for it. I posted about the Nissan version of wireless charging in the city back in 2016 here: It is now very common in Japan and Nissan has been very active in building out wireless charging on the west coast. Time is all it takes to get the technology spread.

How are people who park in public spaces (parking lots, decks, or on the street) supposed to have a charging pad? What do they do when they come home and someone else is parked over it? What happens to the pad when a plow comes by? Or the pavement heaves beneath it? Or someone steals it? Are people supposed to take this pad in & out when they want to charge? That's just a larger 'cord'- same points apply. As for an EV truck, I'm not paying $70 grand for a work truck. That's lunacy.

A circa 2800 lb tube chassis Camaro, ran in the 8's in the quarter.

A few minutes ago...my Jeep was down to a quarter of a tank. Went out on the main street outside my neighborhood--5 stations within a mile or so to choose from...Valero, Sunoco, Shell, BP, Chevron. Went to Shell. Fill up took maybe 6-8 minutes. It will be a while until recharging has that level of convenience. Yes, it was cold outside--30 degrees, but being an Ohio native, I have winter clothes..

"dirty-smelly" lol. This tangible issue here is, whereas gas stations are widespread and you go to them, charging at home certainly doesn't work for everyone. My truck parks outside- I'd have to run a 25' cord to it, snake it out behind the garage door track, loop it around the other car parked outside, unplug the outlet end in case it rains, pick it up when I mow, etc. I don't find that "convenient". A lot of older homes have no garage and no outside outlets. Many inner city residents (you know; another one of the supposed 'target' buyers), park on the street; they're not really supposed to lay a cord across the sidewalk, are they? What if they only find a parking spot 4 doors down the street? Then there are apartment / high rise dwellers that park in lots (or decks) with no provisions to plug in. Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure- it's not ready yet. No responsible OEM is going to kill an IC small car & replace it whole hog with an EV, because buyers aren't ready right now, because the infrastructure isn't. Yet. The breathlessness some folk talk about the tsunami of EVs cars that are going to wipe out ICs inside of 10 years simply isn't keeping touch with reality. There's the fantasy vision of the Brave New World, then there is the 'dirty smelly' reality version.

Reading on a Buick board : Buick 350 CI V8 factory 2-bolt block, aftermarket crank, rods, pistons, ported iron heads & intake, roller cam, 850 cfm carb, 8.6 CR. Made in 'mid 500s' HP/TRQ naturally aspirated. Added procharger (12 PSI) : 838 HP @ 7100, 674 TRQ @ 6000 Different procharger (20 PSI, still on pump gas) : 950 HP @ 7200, 731TRQ Final pull on race gas : 1021 HP @ 6800, 808 TRQ @ 5750

Business is always cyclical, ALL companies plot their history via the Bell Curve. GM was there first in a personal transportation centered multi-armed conglomerate, and all others followed, learning (and some would say 'stealing') from the innovation GM pioneered. I do not jump on the bandwagon of saying 'GM lost focus'- they could do some things better, some things differently, but other things they are arguably the best at currently. Automotively, hyundai has only 3 SUVs and 5 sedans, and 0 trucks. They are behind the curve WRT current market trends here.

I like Uber..very convenient sometimes. If I lived downtown in a big city with lousy parking and lousy traffic, I'd use it all the time.. Or autonomous vehicles. Driving is very distracting from playing on their phones, playing video games, etc.

(continued...) No harmonic balance, no travel range... must I keep going?

infrastructure is the only one I agree on... the soul and sound these days, in many a performance vehicle these days are artificial and U kno it. No Joy.. its all subjective . Obsolescence? Easily reprogrammed. But the deal is that U and I kno that probably 90% of the people on this very enthusiast board have any idea what this is

Takes too long to replenish. Sameness across all makes and models/complete homogenization. Quick obsolescence. No noise. No soul. No joy. No infrastructure. I could go on and on and on.

Many do not understand the Chaebol of Korea or the Keiretsu of Japan. These business groups are so tightly tied together that they have a dominance that US businesses cannot do here due to our laws. This will always make it hard for US businesses in the Asian rim. China has their SOEs (State-owned Enterprises) that pretty much do the same thing as the Korean or Japanese groups. These SOEs do not want to have attention on them so the business groups go by the term Qiyejituan. These are huge and equal in size to most of our Fortune 500 companies, some may even be considered Fortune 100. https://iveybusinessjournal.com/publication/the-critical-role-of-business-groups-in-china/ Good overview if you want to learn more about them. Korean = Chaebol Japanese = Keiretsu Chinese = Qiyejituan

Seems GM is making sure their EVs can run with the best. Latest interview with GM Spokes person Michael Albano told C/D that Electrification is paying a huge role at GM and they wanted the best to insure optimal performance. Al Oppenheiser who has brought us generations of Camaro's including the 427 recently and the latest ZL1 and even the Z/28 will be taking his electrification of the Camaro at SEAMA and moving over to the newly formed AV/EV organization focused on zero-emission auto's. This is a lateral move for him keeping him in his Chief Engineering role which will bring us a Camaro EV and similar performance focused EVs for the entire company. Oppenheiser began his career in 1985 and has been the Chief Engineer since 2007 covering Gen 5 & 6 of the performance Camaros. Oppenheiser has developed a loyal team of colleagues within Chevrolet and the Camaro community with a strong community of Performance Fans as a whole according to this story. As a car guy representing the human element, he has committed to making sure the EVs of tomorrow have the right sound, right handling, right performance to thrill the next generations of Camaro / Performance auto owners. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a25429195/chevrolet-camaro-chief-engineer-moves-to-gm-electric-cars/ He will start his new role January 2nd 2019. Very excited to see what GM brings to the sales floor of fun EV auto's.

Seems according to a recent visit to their HQ and a sitdown, RJ said they would have a 3rd auto. https://www.autoblog.com/2018/12/05/rivian-future-sales-charging-network/ @A Horse With No Name @Robert Hall @ccap41 To Quote: Scaringe made mention of a third Rivian coming our way too. He said it will be "smaller in wheelbase than what you see here in LA, but think of it as Rivian's interpretation of what you would see as a rally car. With a lot of ground clearance." Rivian didn't confirm or deny the report, but we did receive confirmation of a third car in the works. An electric rally car sure sounds cool

I prolly posted this before, but the Mustang racers reminded me of it. That's a Ferrari 2+2 V-12, and it was only ONE QUARTER of ONE SECOND faster than the '65 Catalina 2+2 421 on a 2 minute lap. "The Ferrari lapped faster than the Pontiac by a very small margin. I'd say that this was due to somewhat better handling and a little bit to its brakes, The limited slip was good, but I wouldn't say it was any better. Of course, it didn't have the work to do that the Pontiac's did. I don't think the Ferrari would be quite as good in the rain as the Pontiac, but that's largely because of the disc brakes- disc brakes are generally pretty poor in the rain until they're hot." Ferrari : 3430 lbs, 300 HP 242 CI V12, 415 TRQ, 4-spd manual, 4.25 axle, 1/4 mile: 14.6 @ 97 Pontiac : 4155 lbs, 376 HP 421 CI V8, 461 TRQ, 4-spd manual, 3.42 axle, 1/4 mile: 13.8 @ 106

I think lots of people need to listen to this song as it is so correct for todays time. Depeche Mode - People are People

Everything Counts very good song. Takes me back to my college days in Japan. Damn, I am getting old.

Still working, but moved onto Depeche Mode!

There is four problems with your argument. #1 How is it anti-American to encourage the consumption of American goods and services? And, since when is Free Trade "American" or "Un-American"? The USA was very much a tariff economy through out most of the industrial revolution and all the way past WWII. It is totally fair to tariff imports. Why? Because foreign manufacturers do not pay US taxes do they? They don't pay by our labor standards do they? #2 A country like the USA with lots of resources, technology, infrastructure and people can make everything that we need and want. In fact, we used to and that made the USA the per-eminent world power. However, because Americans have higher living and working standards, it will ALWAYS cost more to build locally than to buy from 3rd world countries. When you buy more than you sell it is called a Trade Deficit -- an outflow of wealth from your country to another. If you have no barriers and no policies to encourage domestic production and consumption, you WILL buy everything and make nothing. The sht hole countries will buy nothing from you and sell you everything. #3 You cannot want social safety nets, a minimum wage, environment standards and also want Free Trade. You have to choose between wanting these things or having factories in the USA that pays 20 cents an hour. Yeah, let's have a minimum wage and mandatory labor standards, but let's buy stuff from countries with no such nonsense with Free Trade. Makes a lot of sense! They get all the jobs, you get all the deficits and instead of workers making minimum wage you get workers with no job on welfare . #4 Trade is war and it has been waged since the beginning of time. You can either fight or you can lose. The EU tariffs US cars at 10% while we tariff theirs at 2.8%. China tariffs our exports from 20~60% while we tariff theirs at in the single digits. Normally, you sign deals like this when enemy tanks are on the Capitol Lawn! But we willingly sign such unfair and losing agreements. This is because for decades our elected Swamp Creatures have not been negotiating in our best interests. They were negotiating in the best interests of transnational corporations like Apple which cannot care less where products are built or sold, or which countries get richer or poorer, only that they profit in the process. Free Trade is simply stupid. It is stupid because a country which makes nothing and buys everything with its accumulated wealth is neither secure nor sustainably wealthy. At some point, you will be that useless country with an expended treasure trove. Free Trade is also stupid because it simply doesn't exist. Tariffs do not close you off to the world. Nobody is banning imports or exports. You can buy whatever you want. But, if you buy Russian Vodka or Chinese electronics you are going to pay more. Sure, other countries will retaliate with tariffs, well we have a $800 billion deficit so they will LOSE any trade war. And, much of the exports which you lose you regain in domestic sales due to barriers to imported competition. And, US workers and US companies making US goods pay US taxes. Chinese workers and Chinese companies making Chinese Goods DO NOT. It's not rocket science.

We could use some hybrid and/or EV Chevy crossovers long before a hybrid Camaro. A hybrid Mustang would be a mistake for Ford; they should reserve that for the next Explorer and/or Expedition. I doubt anyone looking for high MPG would consider a Camaro for a simple reason: a hybrid is simply too practical for what is supposed to be a fun and exciting car.

Eventually they will hybrid all things.

LOL, what a great idea, Chevy. NOT

Good...get ICE cars off of the road and Electrics on the road.

How embarrassing. Here's a new official photo of Oppenheiser from GM's "get to know us" website:

Riv, I agree witchoo, one has to be dense to choose an electric vehicle.