Leaderboard

So much more bed with 6 and 7.5ft options compared to that weak-sauce 4.5ft bed Rivian may have.

My understanding is there is only 1 wheelbase. Grand is luxury trim. Closest GM analogy is Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are like Yukon and Yukon Denali.

Pancakes are transported most securely on a plate when stacked flat, as opposed to on edge.

Very cool seeing this old mini pickup Luv Truck Brochure. ChevyLuvTruck80Dlr-Brochure.pdf

Always fun when you can quote yourself... ? Was able to get of hold of both my company, and the “scam” company. My gas company put a nice block so that no one can change it but me. The other bit was that the other “company” called me as they were missing quite a bit of info. Needless to say I gave them a “kind” no and they will leave me alone....hopefully things will be good!!

How to time stamp a video: At the bottom of the video on youtube, there is the title of the video to the left. At the right, there are a few clickable links. 'Thumbs Up' - 'Thumbs Down' - 'Share' - 'Save' We want to click on 'Share' After clicking on 'Share', there is a small box to where we want to share the video at, time stamped if you will. We could pause the video where we want to share it at or we could type it manually. Then we just copy/paste the link or click on the 'copy' link and voila! We could now share a time stamped video.

So far I watched about half this vid, a old timer rebuilding a HydraMatic. GM sold these units to many many other corporations/brands, and apparently they sometimes did modifications to suit their whims. This unit apparently is a Rolls Royce unit, and the video is sprinkled with periodic derogatory comments about the way Rolls chose to change things. Not sure I know how to time stamp vids, so go to 26:15 and watch that sequence for about 60 secs.

60% of the fur family.

Balthazar is the only person in here that GETS WHAT I'M SAYING. And he is SPOT ON.

Your Ram example is non-applicable to my statement (since you are addressing my statement). It's 1 vehicle line with a number of variants, built by 1 corporation. No one (including me) has an ounce of issue with that. However, in a scenario (because my statement was a rhetorical scenario) where Ram, Chevy, GMC, Ford, nissan & toyoter all rode the same platform with an indistinguishably similar power output. Might as well merge all those brands into a new "Truck" brand- because there's no competing anymore.

:shrug: sounds like the ‘appliance-conversion’ of the auto industry will suit you well.

The launch video from Stellantis I saw did not make any mention of a longer wheelbase, and they both appeared the same. Likewise for the Car & Driver articles on both. Which article are you referencing? Launch video: Car & Driver articles: https://www.caranddriver.com/jeep/wagoneer https://www.caranddriver.com/jeep/grand-wagoneer This article mentions that Motor Trend believes LWB versions of both could be coming later https://www.motor1.com/news/494206/extra-long-jeep-wagoneer-coming/

Per the same article, the “grand” part of the Wagoneer will indicate the length. That’s my understanding of it but you are right that they may start it off that way. Seems a little silly to me if you’re going to have both wheelbases though. “Grand” would make much more sense for the bigger model IMO.

Neat Corvair video just released on Jay Leno's garage...

From another article “Yes. Jeep plans to introduce a long-wheelbase Wagoneer to properly compete with its crosstown rivals' bigger siblings. And if the standard-length Wagoneer's size is anything to go by, then the long-wheelbase Jeep is sure to overshadow even the biggest of these big SUVs, the 226.9-inch-long Cadillac Escalade ESV.” And the “Series III” is their absolute top trim level.

There will be the Wagoneer vs Tahoe/Expy and Grand Wagoneer vs Suburban/Expy XL

They WERE their own companies. Then they became their own companies under a parent corporation... then slowly/eventually became merely brands in name once Divisional engineering was discontinued. You're still only addressing an inter-Corporate scenario. Pull back farther. Come away from 1980 and 1910; look to the topic at hand- the future. I am still addressing a scenario where audi, BMW, MB, volvo, maserati, ferrari, aston Martin all have sedans riding on the same battery-electric platform with the same performance/ range window, with the same steering & suspension. THAT is where I question the future viability of so many diffferently-badged but very similar vehicles, with (or without) needless grilles, with (attempted) significant price differences no longer tied to expensive powertrain & chassis development costs (everything else is basically the same).

You're both talking about vehicles made by the same corporation. I'm talking about vehicles with the same structure across a dozen corporations and 3 dozen brands. Very distinct distinction.

Aren't these to compete with Tahoes/Suburbans/Yukons/XL, Expeditions/Max, Escalades, and Navigators though? Tahoe starts at 49k - Suburban starts at 51k Yukon starts at 51k - XL starts at 60k Escalade starts at 76k - ESV starts at 80k Navigator starts at 76k - L starts at 85k Yeah, after breaking it down it does seem considerably higher than its closest competition. Have you not paid attention to the truck segment for the last 20 years? They one-up each other almost yearly on payload capacity and towing capacity along with added off-road models.

1 of 7 Verdero Green 67 GTO....

Go home Jeep. You’re clearly drunk.

Aren't you talking about private owners? If -hypothetically- there's 1 BE skateboard under 20 different brands' sedans, is there any 'need' for 20 brands anymore? Don't buyers chose different brands based on how numerous criteria are different between choices? Look at (if you will) the disastrous move NASCAR did by mass-homogenization of the race car- Toyota's running an IBC V8 they never built for the street. NASCAR made it 'all about the drivers' when it was always all about the sum of the driver & CAR. I'm not talking about the OEM-centric efficiency of sharing expensive BE skateboards ... OEM's have been sliding increasing percentages of components to vendors for years... but at least you have corporation-specific major components done in-house. For now.

@trinacriabob A couple of mistakes. But overall excellent. Yes... Pointe-à-Callière The founding site of Ville-Marie settlement that later became Montréal. It is now, since 1992, a museum complex. I occasionally talk to myself...in one of the three languages I speak, usually English though, just to keep...sane. No joke.

Blasphemy! ?

Mon Dieu, monsieur Grecque. Je pense que je connais tous cets places dans toi photos, aussi dans les photos vielles. Je pense que ceci et dans le Vieux-Port, a cote' du musee "nouveau" Pointe-a-Calliere, n'est-ce pas? I do this without looking at a translator. Pardon any mistakes, given that I took only took it in high school. I occasionally talk to myself in French just to keep it up.

From V8 Buick board: brand new Tomahawk Buick V8 block, will be an 11.3:1 557 CI monster.

There's no difference in wheelbase/body length between the Grand and non-. The difference is in the features/engine. The Wagoneer gets the 5.7L Hemi, the Grand gets the 6.4L Hemi. The top of the line Grand Wagoneer easily competes with the Escalade.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35809318/check-out-every-luxurious-detail-of-the-2022-jeep-grand-wagoneer/ Seems like its not-so-luxurious vs luxury, IMO.

All my recent comments here go back to this. And this is NOT the only company pursuing this business case. Over 75 or 80 years; correct. Unfortunately; because it's never been as relevant since (the heyday).

Yes but competing with both Tahoe/Expedition and Escalade/Navigator is not a good plan IMO. Jeep can go after the cheaper two but the luxury market is a whole ballgame and I cannot see anyone paying $105,995 for a Jeep anything. They may surprise me with that but I just don’t see it happening long term.

They will probably get it... 59 Jeep, Patina, my kind of Jeep....not an 80 thousand dollar mall cruiser...

A distinction without a difference End result is the same Like the NASCAR sticker cars that GM sold on the street all with the same DOHC 3.4 liter V6. Just the suspension tuning was done differently to achieve different levels of corporate brand identity. All had different dashboards to achieve another level of corporate brand identity. The outer shell was made to look and feel different from the other corporate brands. And...you would be correct. As GM lost 2 out of those 3 brands. And about brand loyalty... I guess its there. With leasing its a lot less prevalent. But...as GM tuned the suspension differently from the Lumina Z34 from the Pontiac GP GTP DOHC 3.4 from the Olds Cutlass Supreme DOHC 3.4 and had a different dashboard and outer shell... AND GM had slightly tuned engine differences with suspension differences between their 3rd and 4rth gen Camaros and Firebirds What difference does it make how many BEV skateboards are being sold to different OEMs for each OEM to tune THEIR same BEV skateboard to achieve a difference from the others? Further more, GM will be doing EXACTLY that within their own corporation with their own BEV platform that will be sold as a Chevy, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. Each brand will tune their own electric motor and suspension while having different ranges and acceleration speeds and what not... Remember, Chevrolet is (was?) its own OEM different from Buick which was different from Cadillac and Buick is (was?) its own OEM different from Chevrolet which was different from Cadillac and Cadillac is (was?) its own OEM different from Chevrolet which was different from Buick. Further further more If a company just buys that one BEV skateboard platform but has its own electric motors and battery tech, isnbt that kinda the same with what GM did with its own brands with each brand producing its own engines? If you look at the 1968-1972 GM A body, the exterior styling even looked the same... The pony cars from 1967-1980 all looked the same. The 3rd gens also looked the same... Then we just get into the messy badge engineering stuff... Like I said... a distinction without a difference. For humour and not for trolling Time stamped...

As Olds pointed out, with examples, this homogenization has been going on for decades. What was the point of GM having a Cavalier, a Sunfire, and a Cimmaron? Additionally, this skateboard platform is no different than the platform sharing that has occurred among and between companies for decades as well. NASCAR is a poor example because is a sport and not something made for you and me so it has nothing to do with private ownership or consumer level homogenization. It merely provides entertainment and as such, they can make any rules they want. If we want to go there, then I should point out that NASCARs moves haven’t stopped drivers like Jimmy Johnson from dominating for years so it is still about the driver, which is how it should be.

...in average insurance coverage costs in 49 States, according to nerd wallet (it's the 2nd highest in NY State). And interesting contrast to Elon Musk's statement that insuring a Tesla "should be 20% cheaper than average". Louisiana has the highest average insurance bill for the Model 3, at $3436 / yr. Insanely expensive... funny how I've never read about extravagant insurance costs in a single Tesla review. Seems to be yet one more associated cost that gets swept under the rug (along with charging & maintenance costs). I'm kind of surprised this far into the Tesla story that this has slipped under the radar. As these hidden costs gets more & more exposure, will it dampen the buzz / long term sales (Tesla sales in the U.S. peaked in 2018)?

Yet it has been done for decades while certain folks folks think that EV mods are killing brand loyalty, which is a joke btw. That was part of my point to the disillusioned here. And come on @ocnblu, tell us more about that “brand loyalty” you clearly don’t follow yourself. Seems like your brand loyalty policy is right up with their with your “buy American” policies you have espoused for years here (and we all know how that has turned out). All of your down votes do not change the truth.

Happy Sunday AND random thought: Spring ahead ... right back to bed.

That will be going on our door this week.....

In other words... Whether the future rides on EVs or remains with the status quo with the internal combustion engine... homogenization of the automobile will continue on regardless... Therefore, could we all put our big boy pants on and stop the needless whining?

Why are we bitchin' at this? Because we think that EVs are going to be same shyte appliance compliance vehicles? GM has been doing exactly that since the 1970s. Even GM's pony cars at about 1979 or 1980 with the 2nd gen and DEFINETELY with the 3rd gen this has been going on... Its an argument that has loooooong been written. 1980s Ford Thunderbird/Mercury Cougar 1980s Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable 1980s Ford Mustang/Mercury Capri 1980s Ford Tempo/Mercury Topaz Chrysler's K cars Chrysler's Cloud cars. 1980s AND 1990s FWD GM Pontiac Bonneville/Oldsmobile Delta 88 and 98/Buick LeSabre Chrysler's cab forward midsizers both gens before going to RWD. Chrysler Concord, Dodge Intrepid, Eagle whatever it was... Eagle Talon/Mitsubishi Eclipse 1st gen and 2nd gen Volkswagen in Europe with Seat cars in the 1990s... This has been going on for a LOOOOONG time waaaaaay before EVs came into the picture. Can we just stop the EV drama???!!!

That new Ford Maverick is shaping up to be pretty darn spiffy. So many comments online asking for a regular cab from ppl who owned old-skool compact trucks. Even a Supercab would suffice for me with a 6' bed. I'm going out on a limb and predict the SuperCrew in the recent spyshots has a longer bed than a Rivian and maybe even a Hummer. The days when a pickup truck was judged by its work capacity were good days.

UBS has stated to forget the Chinese as their EV companies while still growing and will compete to a point will not be a top EV global sellar. UBS states that Tesla and VW will be the top two Global EV auto sellars by 2025. Forget Nio and XPeng. This company and Tesla will be the top two electric-vehicle plays by 2025, says UBS. (msn.com)

1969

'56 Buick Centurion concept car- the first vehicle with a rear facing camera :

what is needed; CROSSOVER COUPE VAN

^ Because it has a 4.5' bed. Ranger is now the size of an F-150 of 20 years ago (unfortunately). Ranger wheelbase is 127", Rivian is 136", an F-150 CC/5.5 is 145". Rivian would be closer to 142" with a 5.5' bed.

Robb Report ~ Porsche is reporting its synthetic "eFuel" could make IC engines as clean as BEVs; that it is showing early promise to burn so clean -being a much less complex chemistry- that it could reduce the 'well-to-wheel' carbon footprint of a vehicle burning to to on parity with a BEV. Aston Martin reported last spring that it, too, is working on a synthetic fuel as a valid alternative to expensive electric powertrains. In 2020, only 3.2 million BE's were sold globally in a market that is 65.5 million - a take rate of merely 4.8%. - - - - - Exciting times we live in, eh?

When we’re all (again) beating our laundry on a rock and hanging it over a tree branch in the sun, then we’ll be ‘primative’.