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I warned you against politics, you ignored it, so now you're getting warning points. Talking about our experiences getting the vaccine is not political. The fact that you think us discussing how we got the vaccine or the side effects we might have experienced is political says more about you than it does about us. It also goes back to my complaint in the Bad Behavior thread where I said: As far as my quote from the NYT.... what I provided was EVIDENCE from the New England Journal of Medicine. It was just a quote from the NYT summarizing in plainer language what the NEJM said. Compare that to your links (which will be removed): LawEnforcementToday triggers this warning in my browser: And even by their own admission, they are an OPINION site with anonymous sources and no accountability BorderReport is owned by NexStar which, like Sinclair group, is right wing propaganda masquerading as "Your Friendly Local News Channel". TFIGlobalNews is an Indian news site which runs Trump puff pieces.... an article dated today is talking about how Trump is going to win (riddled with spelling errors I might add). So, on my side I have a respected medical journal largely regarded as one of the standards of the world and to counter that, you provide a link to a site that causes a browser warning, a right-wing propaganda conglomerate, and a news outlet from India with a hard on for Trump.... NONE of which refute my statement (backed by the NEJM) that the vaccine offers greater protection from the virus than being infected does. So, I'm not going to even address the rest of your lies, I'm just going to delete them as I hand you your warning. You said your piece here. You're wrong about virtually every "fact" you've posted. Stay out of this thread. Further posts in this thread will result in further warnings until suspension kicks in.

Unless I will be able financially to upgrade my Mustang to Shelby or to Mach 1 (better transmission and cooling) in the near future, I will be keeping it forever. I will be one of those old farts driving around in the old loud "muscle" car scaring people in their silent EVs I even think when I will get old and my hearing will get worse I will put back loud exhaust on it too

Again. mRNA vaccines are not new. They have been working on them for over 2 decades. What has changed is the speed at which we can extract the DNA, analyze it, and construct the mRNA. The first mRNA vaccine was reported on in testing in 1993 - Induction of virus-specific cytotoxic T lymphocytes in vivo by liposome-entrapped mRNA - PubMed (nih.gov) Here it is in 2009 being used for fragile cancer patients who needed extremely customized vaccines made in tiny batches for genetically specific cases - Direct Injection of Protamine-protected mRNA: Results of a P... : Journal of Immunotherapy (lww.com) Back in 2012 there was discussion about how flexible mRNA vaccines are and the realization of what a huge breakthrough it was. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3597572/ Money Quote: In 2013 there was discussion on how effective and safe mRNA vaccines are because of how specific the targeting process is. Money Quote And again in 2019 there was over 20 years of data showing: Challenges and advances towards the rational design of mRNA vaccines: Trends in Molecular Medicine (cell.com) So bottom line: these aren’t new, this is literally late 80's / early 90's technology the only thing that has changed is the speed at which we can sequence DNA there’s lots of info showing they’re safe the reason they weren’t widely used before had nothing to do with their safety they are ideally suited as the first response to a fast-moving pandemic I was not making a hyperbole when I stated that mRNA vaccines are the 3D Printing of the vaccine world. YES! They have been working on these for decades! There is data going back to when AMC was still an independent company! mRNA is safer because it is so tightly targeted. All it does is make replicas of one part of the membrane of the viral cell so that your body will recognize it. It's like passing out 3d mug-shots to every police officer in town so they can recognize the bad guy. The side effects that some people experience from the second dose are a good sign! It means that your body recognized the intruder and went to Red Alert thinking it was a real invasion... and with the second dose your body takes it even more serious. I got no side effects from the first shot but I got major side effects within 12 hours of the second shot.... that was my body mounting a defense. After 4 days or so, the vaccine was completely expelled from my body. And now I have those anti-bodies... just like I have antibodies to this year's flu, and the measles, and mumps, and Hep A/B, and others. Those antibodies do not cause cancer and anti-bodies for Covid do not cause cancer. You have antibodies to many common cold viruses already. Having antibodies to Covid-19 is no different. Everyone reading this please try to understand.... Covid-19 is not a particularly special virus, it's new, but not special. It is most closely related to the common cold. The only thing that is special about it is the intensity of the infection and it's ability to be more easily transmitted. To put it in car terms, Covid-19 is the beige 2003 Camry LE that someone did an LS swap into. Absolutely nothing special, but it can go fast and kill people. That's all it is.

Vaccination is important and I believe most of us realize that and understand the common sense approach. Course we get the news where it says 52% of Healthcare workers are vaccinated. Almost half of all health care workers in U.S. haven't had COVID-19 vaccine, survey shows - CBS News Interesting is that Religion / Politics are the two main reasons for those refusing to get vaccinated. Yet then from the State of Texas, Houston news reports on Hospital vaccination of Healthcare workers and you see considerable numbers getting it. Exclusive Poll: Hospital Healthcare Workers and COVID-19 Vaccine Rates (click2houston.com) Which has the poll of the local hospitals there and they are averaging 75% vaccinated workers and growing. https://infogram.com/exclusive-poll-hospital-healthcare-workers-and-covid-19-vaccine-rates-1h7k230l91j8g2x Even when we look at the CDC for resources for healthcare workers we see the same info provided that the New England Journal of Medicine reports. Immunization Schedules: Resources for Healthcare Providers | CDC Sad the number of people who have lost their lives trying to save so many. CDC COVID Data Tracker So much good info that if you read it with common sense, one should be able to get the benefits that out weight the risks for everyone, not just healthcare professionals. Vaccines and Immunizations: For Healthcare Professionals | CDC As of April 1st, here is where my state stands: Vaccination rates in Washington state (msn.com) Interesting is that the most educated sections of Washington state are also the highest vaccination rates. COVID-19 Data Dashboard :: Washington State Department of Health Sadest part is that we have way to much wasted vaccination doses due to leaving it up to hospitals and vaccination sites if they want to have a wait list or not. Places that run wait lists have 100% usage of all thawed vaccinations. Almost 18% of the doses here are wasted which is very sad. I can honestly say that my first show of Pfizer I and my wife had no issues. Second Booster shot, I again had no real side affects, was tired and slept solid for the night. Wife had a bump on her arm at the injection site and slept 12hrs, but again no side affects. My middle sister due to having 3 generations in her household got her pfizer shots earlier than my wife and I and her husband had zero issues for both shots, daughter had some mild side affects and my sister was down for 3 days but then was fine. So vaccination can affect people very differently. Interesting is that the data is showing which blood types tend to be more affected than others. Good info on Blood Types and Covid-19. Blood type and COVID-19? | MIT Medical The Link Between Blood Type and COVID-19 Risk, Explained | Health.com I think this is a perfect visual of vaccination versus not. Q: What’s the best COVID-19 vaccine? | MIT Medical

*sigh* ... someone is posting fuselage bodies in the Beautiful Cars Appreciation thread again.... time to get out the ban hammer... and yes, I know one of them is a Mercury, but it still manages to look fuselage.

Iso Grifos, Bizzarini 5300 GT, and Ferrari Lusso....some sensuous '60s Italians..

In the 20+ years they've been researching this, there has been no indications of it being cancer causing. Furthermore, due to the nature of the way it works, there is no reason to believe it even could be cancer causing. Certainly watch the data for the unknown, but the mechanism with which this process works doesn't suggest that possibility.

Future looks crazy EXPENSIVE!! ?

My wife is a healthcare worker and none of her colleagues in her department are in the rush to get vaccinated. My parents family doctor is not doing it for now as well. Reason is neither politics or religion, simply because no one knows yet long term effects of the vaccine. I think no one can argue that these vaccines are saving lives at the moment, especially to those who in more risk category. However, there is a reason that FDA gave temporary emergency approval. Basically the whole world is an experiment at the moment. When Pfizer and Moderna will get enough data, they will be able to apply for permanent Biological License Approval from the FDA, but it might take some time, from month to years. The reason that no one can force people to get vaccinated at the moment, as opposing to the fact that schools require kids to be fully vaccinated, is that the vaccine has only temporary emergency approval. It will be AGAINST the law to do so until the vaccine gets full approval of the FDA.

Except that if I gain more gut, it will make it harder to work with my hand tools, hike, have sex, ride a motorcycle, and fit my work uniforms. I have a strong disincentive to avoid the stuff. 32-34 Ford to the left maybe? Neat old T Bird!

It is going to be challenging to go through the check-out at the supermarket in the next few weeks with all that DEEPLY DISCOUNTED Easter chocolate in close proximity.

I've made my peace with the idea that I've probably bought my last V8s ever, and the ones I own are going to have to stay with me. Any new ICE vehicles I get will probably be 6es boosted either with turbos or electric motors (or both if I shop at Volvo). Albert will probably have one more vehicle with an ICE after the 300C but it will probably be a plug-in hybrid. He has said he will want to go back to an SUV next time, so it will probably be an Aviator plug-in or XC90 plug-in. I'm going to keep the Avalanche forever, but it will eventually stop being a daily and I'll have an EV or Plug-in Hybrid for a daily. I like the Rivian the best right now for myself but that is years away (but I waited years for the Avalanche, 300C, and BMW Motorcycle... so once I have my heart set on something.....) I'm making double payments on both, so the loans will be gone in under 3 years.

As with everything, each according to his tastes.... however... the Italians were quite capable of building beautiful cars: It was the reliability that was always suspect. That said... I have lately been having an unhealthy obsession with these: 1990 Bentley Turbo R But I need an 80's British car like I need a hole in my head (which Albert would likely provide if I did buy one) And in looking for those photos, I stumbled upon this beauty: 1957 Bentley Continental S1 Fastback

It was epic hiking, we clocked just over 13 miles, 32,000 steps. Yeah, that really sucks. One of the worst part of being a dad is how irresponsible my son is as a 27 year old on the street. 2nd shot Friday for me. Looks fantastic.

Yeah. Let’s skip things like unrestricted spring breakers in Florida (over the last few weeks) who come from all over and then go back to their hometowns to hopefully NOT spread COVID. Let’s just skip the WHOLE year of 2020 where lax policies kept the previous surges going on longer than other parts of the world because we “might” lose our previous freedoms if we are asked to wear a damn mask. Just skip all of that and blame it on those dirty immigrants like @USA-1 is currently doing. Certainly served the previous administration well, hence them being shown the door by voters five months ago.

And on more humble Italian cars

There is only ONE place on planet Earth that potholes are worse than Detroit's. THAT would be Montreal... Crabwalk wont help us. The EV Hummer wont help us. We dont need military level off-roading vehicles. We need religious efforts (miracles) to avoid potholes. We need religious interventions to survive them.

That's the way -uh-huh, uh-huh- I LIKE IT -uh-huh, uh-huh-

And my boss who is 64 years old, has serious health issues got COVID couple month ago and had only light flu like symptoms for a few days and some light lasting side affects for a few months. Different people react differently. No doubt it is a dangerous illness but I know by now plenty of people who had it and got through it easily. I also know few who died. Many many years ago my dad had flu and had complications that irreversibly damaged his hearing. I had flu few times and didn't even had high fever.

^ with respect to WA state, here's to Gonzaga (WA) over Baylor (TX) tonight. (Little Gonzaga squeaked by big UCLA a few days ago.) Not fanatical about this, but that's the outcome I'd like to see.

I definitely want to have at least one more V8. My V8 experience is pretty dated---'80s Ford 5.0s, '80s M-B 5.0, and '00s Cadillac Northstar. Definitely would like to have a modern Hemi or Ford Coyote in my life.

No offense but even with full FDA approval and years on the market, there is risk with ANY medicine/vaccine. Drew also covered, very thoroughly, why a lot of the supposed fears are just unproven hype regarding mRNA vaccines. The fact is that, for now, it is better than doing nothing at all and just hoping for this mythical herd immunity that some have suggested around here.

No kidding, Zippy. That’s merely time-altered / photoshop-tweaked red. 300 wasn’t available in pinks- too macho. ?

Some of them look like the products of a woman infected with Zeka virus during pregnancy.

So much goodness today for EVs, the future looks BRIGHT!!! Honestly, we are gonna need these types of auto's if we do not fix our roads as the potholes are getting crazy bad.

@USA-1 Valid question, not being political, just being honest one college educated man to another. As a college educated man, how do you not use the analytical skills we learn to assess, review and consider all points of views about science/medicine? I accept your choice to not get vaccinated, but I do not understand how one can review the data and understand the pro's and cons. Were you not vaccinated as a kid growing up in Oregon like all the other school kids? As an Engineer, I totally get the fact that we can work numbers many different ways to get various results, but if you truly believe in yourself to build the best product, then an objective review of the data allows us to see where the pro's and con's lay and why we would build one way or another. As more data comes in a clearer picture shows up, yet with that said, today's computers allow us to run many simulations and the data has been far more accurate than we had with Polio, Mumps, Measles, etc. Vaccination is important to the human race and allowing infections to happen where we can minimize the affects and loss of life via medicine seems to be natural to me. So have you reviewed the data from so many various medical sites in coming to your stated view? Which sites are you basing your view on?

Be careful with those facts David. Some folks might have an “opinion” about it. Jokes aside, that is really good information and that needs to come out more instead of the ridiculous propaganda and bias laden nonsense being put out there by the anti-vax/anti-mask/alternative facts crowd.

I was just about to point that out lol. Borderreport has been fear mongering for years because that's what drums up their target audience, as is the case with ALL Sinclair properties and outlets.

I went to a greek Orthodox church with friends for Easter. Old callendar, so they were not celebrating easter.

It's going to be really interesting to see what the EV and ICE market looks like in 5 - 10 years. Not sure what I will be driving in 5 years, or 10 years.

Quite an accomplishment there. Drew presents you with actual facts and you present the exact opposite of it. Bravo. BTW, the latest COVID surge is happening all over the country, not just the border states so save the xenophobic blame game by blaming it on immigrants. That is a lie upon many lies you have told on this thread. Just skip the part where I lived in Phoenix up until fifteen months ago so I know that this immigrant surge talk (as well as your assumption that they are mostly criminals because I’m sure you asked them all if they were) is pure BS. Drew also did not make this political. He talked about vaccines, which should not be political but folks like yourself clearly made it that way.

Able to hang with almost all the the fam today. Wife and I just kept our distance. Everyone is vaccinated. Still a great time outside with the nice weather. Wife and I get our vaccines this week.....

The New York Post is a trash tabloid, but even then, the quotes are telling "half the nurses in the facility would not get the vaccine, citing political reasons." and "Survey respondents leaning against taking the vaccine said, among other reasons, that they were concerned how politics influenced the development of the vaccine". Also, that article is from December 30th, just a few weeks after the vaccine had been released. How about some up to date data, no? FALSE: The pandemic is not winding down. There are spikes again in a number of major cities including my own. ALSO FALSE - The administration has not changed testing procedures at the boarder. Anyone caught by CBP is held for 72 hours while they are tested. This is carry over policy from the previous administration. Biden Hasn't Reduced COVID-19 Testing at the Border - FactCheck.org - Lots of sources at the bottom too. But you're getting dangerously close to bumping into the No Politics rule. You've already used your final opportunity on that one. So move on from that point. ALSO FALSE - It is being well documented, however the full extent of the greater benefit is not yet fully known. ‘Natural Immunity’ From Covid Is Not Safer Than a Vaccine - The New York Times (nytimes.com) "Early evidence suggests that the Covid-19 vaccines may fall into this category. Volunteers who received the Moderna shot had more antibodies — one marker of immune response — in their blood than did people who had been sick with Covid-19." If you follow that link in the quote, it will take you to the NEJM where it will state in the report that people who had Covid-19 had 80% effectiveness while the vaccines have ~95% effectiveness. 80% < 95% Not my opinion... take it up with the New England Journal of Medicine, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and the 31 doctors that worked on the study. If you think you're more qualified to make an assessment than those doctors and organizations, please provide some credential so we know it's not just your opinion.

Had some ham, biscuits and gravy, and Cadbury eggs...

My contribution to Easter Dinner. My entire pod is fully vaccinated now so we were able to gather for the first time in a year. Strawberry cheesecake, everything is homemade.

A good friend in Germany has an otherwise healthy 17 year old son who got it back in October and while he technically recovered, he has massive issues with his breathing and his energy levels, and that was just for starters. I would like to add that some famous folks got hit hard too. Maynard James Keenan (Tool lead singer) got COVID early last year and six months later, he was still not sure if he’d be able to sing live again because it wrecked his lungs. Just a few examples of the struggles folks are experiencing during these unprecedented times. COVID-19 has never been a “black and white” type of virus and the many problems I’ve read about after recovery on top of all the unnecessary deaths makes me take it very seriously and while I have a very strong immune system, others in my household do not so I bear their safety in mind whenever I head out to deal with the public. It’s just common sense to me.

@USA-1 your strong immune system could very well be your undoing if you were to catch Covid. Many of the young healthy people who died did so because their immune system over reacted and flooded their lungs with mucus and inflamed air passages too much in an attempt to fight the virus. You are correct that mRNA vaccines have not been widely used like this before, but they are not untested. The vaccine itself is out of your system within a few days of each shot, removed by your immune system. While using mRNA is a new technique for creating immune response, that’s where the novelty of it ends. Once your body recognizes it as an intruder, the immune process works the same as any other vaccine or even just being infected. And because the vaccine is expelled within days by the body, there is no reason to assume any long term side effects. Think of mRNA as the 3D Printing of the vaccine world. Once the composition of a virus’s spike protein is known, we now have the ability to isolate just the DNA that creates just that spike protein. With today’s technology, that means a vaccine can be developed for a specific virus within weeks to months instead of years. The implications of mRNA vaccines are huge. While we’ve all been talking about just COVID-19, scientists are already looking at using this technology for scores of other diseases such as cancer. This has been a breakthrough as big or bigger than antibiotics and we’re seeing the beginning of it. mRNA vaccines won’t work for all types of viruses, but it will work for a lot of common ones. I imagine in a few years once the focus on Covid has died down, there will be vaccines for the common cold. And because the technology is akin to 3D printing, the new vaccines will be relatively cheap to produce as well. The data so far shows that people who have been vaccinated have significantly higher antibody levels than those who got Covid, so even if you had it before you are not as well protected as someone who got their shots. The only people who died from the shot were either in extremely frail health and should not have been vaccinated in the first place or people who have severe allergic reactions to an unrelated ingredient in the vaccine. People who experience certain kinds of allergies are instructed not to get the Moderna or Pfizer shots. The J&J shot has a significantly lower rate of allergic reaction, but also lower protection from the virus. There are only 2 big question marks that will only be answered with time. 1. Will we need to get boosters to combat against variants? So far the data shows that while you may not be completely protected from a new variant, having the vaccine does prevent the illness from becoming serious enough to cause hospitalization and completely prevents death from the virus. So for now, getting the shots is worthwhile even with the variants out there. I will get the Moderna variants booster if/when it becomes available and needed. We have to do this with influenza every year, so it’s no big deal. 2. The other question mark is on how long immunity lasts. Most vaccines require booster shots after a period of years. The MMR vaccine is usually given to children, but for people my age and older they’re finding that the body forgets how to make the antibodies after a bunch of years for the vaccine that was being used in the early 80s when I got mine. There is a newer MMR shot that is supposed to improve on that which children are getting these days. I got a booster for MMR a couple years ago because I had the old vaccine. A few years ago I talked to my doctor and had him put me on a schedule to get boosters of anything and everything I might need because I was traveling internationally regularly. But the risk of the body forgetting how to make antibodies is present for nearly all vaccines, so while we do not have data yet on when boosters for Covid-19 might be needed, I’m just assuming they will be needed eventually in order to maintain immunity. I do hope you’ll reconsider and eventually get the shot USA.

If one person tailgates you, they’re a douchebag. If a whole line of cars is tailgating you, you’re the douchebag.

I saw a Montreal in Scottsdale a few years ago...they look great in person..really like the front end...

Mine would be the mid 1980s Countach with all the plastic aero bits on it. Then the Miura. From the modern Lambos, I only like the Reventon which was a limited edition re-worked Murcielago. The Aventador which kinda has Reventon looks would be my last modern Lambo that I like. @Robert Hall I was JUST gonna post the Iso Griifo! LOVE IT!!!! (edit: post merged...)

mRNA maybe was researched for decades now but it wasn't widely used in any medication until now. So no, you can't guarantee that. If that would be the case these vaccines would get full FDA approval. True, but statistically with large amount of data the risk is substantially smaller and usually known after years of use.

Personally, I don't expect huge changes in the next 5 years. All the new EVs just coming out as 2021-2024 vehicles at this point.

The reason they are still telling people to mask even if they’ve been vaccinated is that you can be an asymptomatic carrier. So even if your aren’t ill, you can carry the virus for a time and if you sneeze, say for seasonal allergies, you can spread the virus. That isn’t a reason to not get vaccinated. If the odds of winning a roll of the dice were 95% in a casino, I’ll take that bet every single time. Even if I hit the 5% and lose, I can roll again in 90 days. Risk assessment has been part of my job for over a decade and a half.

That is expected. The flu shot has a lower effectiveness than the Covid shot. None of the vaccines are expected to be 100%. However the vaccine is effective that even if you’re vaccinated and still get it you don’t end up in the hospital. so that is a major improvement over dying. That’s the point of the vaccine, to prevent mortality. That’s why getting the vaccine is important even with the variants.