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Said not one car enthusiast ever.

MPG check-in : odometer at 510 miles, which means the 400 mile window is all my right foot. Average MPG is 22.7. Tickled on that, and I figured it'll settle right around 22-23. I can also tell it would really love to get on the highway and just cruise. Brake break-in complete at 200 mi, engine break-in complete at 500. Time to really get acclimated to each other, lay some rubber, try some maneuvers, check out 'sport' mode, etc. Still haven't fueled up first time yet, I think it's around 3/8th of a tank. Hmmm... at an average of 22.7... 24 gals would take me 544 miles... but I'm at 510 miles with 3/8ths left. That calculates to more like 815 miles. Reality is somewhere in between. Perhaps the needle really dives below a 1/4 tank. Dealer told me it takes a number of tank fills to get the MPG readout to be really accurate (like 10). I log every fueling (have since 1991), so I will be able to compare computed MPG vs. dash MPG.

No; just 75% of all dealers do. So… mercedes is doing the same thing Chevrolet is. Got it. Because BTW; not all Chevy dealers sell Express work vans, too. ?

^ :shrug: These 2 took me like 6 secs to find.

Manuals in racing is not about it shifting faster; it’s completely about controlling exactly what gear you’re in, when you want to be in it. An auto will almost always shift faster, but then it’s the gearbox deciding what gear you’re in, not you. Bottom line: an automatic race car can shift faster, yet cover ground slower. I think NASCAR uses manuals because IDK if an auto gearbox could handle the temps of 2-3 hrs of 200+ MPH. Have to have a turbo to cool the trans cooler.

NASCAR still uses a full-on manual transmission.

You drive trucks, and I am not sure when, if ever you drove a proper sports car with proper manual transmission. So lets agree to disagree on that part. Formula 1, which is the fastest form of racing in the world uses semi-automatic sequential gearbox. Pretty much any other form of road racing uses similar transmissions. So you can disagree on that, but you will be wrong.

Nothing surprises me about David defending automatics.

I want the Zephyr to succeed but history does not suggest it, is my concern here. Ev or not, luxury folks just won't give the domestics a second look when comes to sedans, outside of the Tesla cult. That could change and I hope it does but I just don't see it currently.

24 gals would initially take me to heaven. Right after, those same 24 gals would lead me take me straight to hell. A lot further than 544 miles I think... 24 gals would also lead me to bankruptcy. In a shorter distance I might add...

That's an ugly slew of vehicles. Maybe they should stick with ICE.

I don't think you've read a single Lincoln review, let alone sat in one. You'd think a fanboy such as yourself would know it's "G-wagen".

I didnt want to respond in this now derailed thread... Yet again, the bullshyte arises... @smk4565 The PHOQUE are you talking about? Mercedes Benz West-Island. West of the Island of Montreal... Google maps. Just click on the link.... https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4848789,-73.8465411,3a,30.4y,25.29h,91.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sufnCpBfbldHYWCcHUt0b0Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US Mercedes Rive-Sud South Shore borough just south of the Island of Montreal. https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4833736,-73.465463,3a,47.4y,282.53h,89.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5jEcQOWJrypmtzLG49__qQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US Mercedes Laval. Just to the north of the island of Montreal. Laval is a city-suburb of Montreal on another island RIGHT ABOVE Montreal... https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5718446,-73.7606766,3a,15y,212.39h,90.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sb4tWRSpcbsmTBz0IAq8lWA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-US Older pic I think the one in Laval...and the one in Laval has a specific and separate area for the vans... Centre des Fourgons . Fourgons is short for fourgonette which is French for mini-van. Mini-van center... But there are 2 vans in front of the MAIN entrance front and center... It doesnt matter...the Google car captured all 3 locations, (there are others in and around Montreal...I just dont feel like posting ALL locations...) where the Mercedes vans are sold FRONT AND CENTER at the dealership where Maybach S Class versions are sold... The funny thing is that at the West Island location...the vans are presented outside under an AMG banner sign... LMFAO ????? 3 different locations on 3 different days...a google car captured and proved SMK wrong... LMFAO ?????

One of the largest Mercedes (& other euro 'lux' brand) mega-dealers in my state lines a row of refrigerator-white cargo vans next to e- and s-class cars on the front line of their lot. They absolutely are sold via the same dealerships. Daimler bungled that opportunity royally, but that's old news.

? ? ? ? ? I missed that on on the above list. Why not make it 1,000.

It's not like it's some sort of 'special privilege' or anything to sell work vans. All a 'franchise' is, is a legal agreement between a dealer & the OEM. Sometimes the OEM offers one to a dealer, sometimes a dealer requests the new brand. It's not a big deal. And with the vast majority of dealers selling mercedes passenger vehicles also selling mercedes-branded work vans, that much is obvious.

Of course it doesn’t bother you. Why else would spend a page defending it even after denying the practice of them selling vans beside their cars existed in the first place? Sell that bull$h! to someone else.

But the Point is ALL MB Dealers CAN SELL VANS even if they do not stock them! So YOUR Dealer DOES Sell Vans if they want, but they choose not too. If a person came in to YOUR dealership and asked to buy a Van, I am sure the dealership would work with them to sell it as the official web site states. All Dealers can sell and service vans. There is NO LICENSE required to Sell Vans per MB Web Site. Where does it say they have to have a special license or franchise to sell vans? Any Dealer can sell and service the vans, only 75% CHOOSE to stock them and sell them. Clearly it bothers you BIG TIME as you are here ATTEMPTING to Justify the whole VAN thing at MB. So AGAIN, NO LINK, NO CLEAR EVIDENCE, What is this chart, Sales of Smarts? Sales of S-Class? You have been asked, posts the links, clearly state the facts. Please stop drinking the Kool-Aid as you clearly are having challenges expressing yourself clearly through style, diction and formulation of your thoughts.

Plenty of folks gave the Germans a free pass on decades of automotive $h!. Lincoln can do it too.

Don’t worry. As it was already pointed out to you, 75% of them do. But I thought this was the best or nothing? They are not supposed to be like GM and Chevy. This is a luxury make selling work vans on the same lot, a pass you sure as $h! would not let Cadillac have if Chevy Sparks were sold right next to Escalades. Save the fake outrage and “who cares” defense because clearly you did care, as evidenced by your nonstop defense of an obvious lie.

And that has zero bearing on whether the EQS will sell well. ZERO bearing. BTW, they would have a bigger base if it was a CUV/SUV instead of a sedan that already looks ten years old on the outside. And preaching the $100K defense rings a little hollow when the ATP is, again, lower than Cadillac and their one $100K model. Yet you were just on here acting like it was only a minority of dealers doing this. How’d that blond assumption work out for you? Sorry but your entire defense of them while trolling yet another domestic thread is just old, dumb, and full of basic lies. Just sit this one out.

Are you positive and can you prove that not all Mercedes dealers can sell vans? Seems the dedicated web site states any Mercedes dealership can sell/service from their van portfolio and to use their search tool to find a van in stock at select dealers. Home Page | Mercedes-Benz Vans (mbvans.com)

And lets just skip the part where NASCAR drivers don’t even have to use the clutch pedal to shift. Not exactly “old school” driving there, much like the sequential ones touted are “old school” manuals. If it doesn’t involved BOTH the left foot and the right hand to shift, then it’s not a true manual IMO.

If it is so much faster than a automatic, then why did Formula 1 remove full auto transmissions, along with lunch and traction control, almost 15 years ago so that drivers would not have an unfair advantage? Clearly someone thought having an automatic had an advantage.

Since the official reveal of the Mach-e Ford has been busy moving forward to the point where this auto is a very hot BEV selling around the world. Now Ford has released for the last two model versions the final info on the Mach-e GT and GT Performance edition that is in production finally and the official EPA range is 270 miles for GT and 260 for the GT-Performance. The GT-Performance will have 634 lb-ft of torque and a 0to60 mph in 3.5 seconds. Ford has done some great engineering when you consider the Targeted EPA range at this reveal and the final. Mustang Mach-E GT and GT Performance Edition Hit Final EPA-Estimated Range of 270 miles and 260 miles | Ford Media Center

Forever

Almost all racing cars have manual or semi-manual transmissions, obviously that is not a distraction for racing drivers. And since racing is about getting that extra 0.1% to be faster, it is still faster then automatics. Except for drag racing, but that's different. On the road, every true enthusiast have no issues shifting, if you do it long enough it comes automatically, you definitely don't need to think about it, but absolutely enhances the pleasure of driving.

While I, personally, don't really care if they offer a car or not, there really are still plenty of people who want cars. I'm in a couple Lincoln Facebook pages and there are quite a few who still want cars and want to upgrade from their Continental or MKZ to a new one but they don't exist.

Proud 39yrs

So here just north of me off Highway 99 is the Lynnwood Benz dealership and I see far more vans out front than cars or SUVs. I agree that NOW is the time for Lincoln to step it up with their BEV roll out of Luxury auto's. While you and everyone knows I love my SUVs and Trucks, I am honestly EXCITED that they will have the Zephyr BEV for those that still want a car. Smart to still have an option so that they do not push away potential buyers.

I honestly think manual is overrated. Distraction from driving aggressively on curvy roads.

This is the Benz dealer in which my wife's G-wagen has been for two months now because their "best or nothing" technicians can't fix the vehicle. I could go on a tirade about that elsewhere. Check this out, they're displaying a Silverado up front! And they also have a slew of work vans and back by the service center is about ten of the vans converted to small motor homes or just vans for humans instead of cargo.

Outside of the Zephyr, Lincoln seems to have a good plan together and they will need to hit all the marks because it is a big gamble given their current “volume”. Now is the time to do it though because they have shown that they are finally ready to get serious again about the luxury market, with strong offerings like the new Navigator and the Aviator.

Yet you seem to think the EQS SEDAN will sell well because….

Very glad to see it back…

- - - - Another interesting tidbit in looking at the deep specs. I always compare to the B-59 (for no logical reasons). Sierra has 10 inches more front headroom & 5.5" more front shoulder room. Surprisingly, the B-59 has the same front legroom, but has 5" more front hip room. Also, the B-59 is about .5" wider (body width sans any mirrors).

This speaks VOLUMES about MB FAILED ability to get EVs to the US market. Now consider that still more Mercedes-Benz electric vehicles are in the pipeline with not-yet-announced timing. Würth said: So no real luxury EVs, just compact mid cost BEVs sometime in the future. which makes the other news reports saying 3 BEVs by 2025 questionable as they are not committing to any release schedule for the US. This is even more proven when they say late debute of the EQS in 2021 at dealerships. Sign up for details in the future. This pretty much says they are not committing to anything in the near future and one would have to question the near years. 2022 EQS Sedan | Future Vehicles | Mercedes-Benz USA (mbusa.com) Even their detailed EQ web page for the US market does not commit to any EVs in the near term. Mercedes-EQ | Mercedes-Benz USA (mbusa.com) Even from this 2020 story, there are no updates, nothing to give any credible statement to when MB might actually start building let alone selling EVs in the US. Mercedes-Benz launches $1.65bn plan to expand electric vehicle battery production (thedriven.io) This news story even lends credibility to the fact that MB will not have BEVs till maybe 2023 in the US as 2022 is when they move into their new Battery and BEV parts buildings in Alabama. New $54M parts facility will boost Mercedes EV production in Alabama (madeinalabama.com) As such, that would imply time to setup production, run tests and get things worked out with the local work force before they can start building and shipping BEVs. At best, I would expect 3 BEVs by 2025. The EQS is 207 inches long, the S-class is 208, not sure that that guy is talking about. There is 3 final product and 4 that are late in development that will be ready in 2022. I hope Lincoln goes from their 4 vehicle lineup, to adding 7 EV's in the next 2 years to keep up. And by the 2030s all the luxury brands will be mostly EV if not all EV, and the same brand that sold the most gasoline cars will sell the most EV's.

Oh shut up with the high price=luxury nonsense. Skip the part where the G Wagon is that expensive because it’s low volume AND hand built. Skip the fact that the Navigator is routinely reviewed as being better than even the current Escalade, which has been continually handing Benz its ass in sales for years now. Skip the fact that Benz is higher priced in general (despite their lower then Cadillac ATP) because they are imports here. See where this is going yet? Just put the damn Pom poms down. I guess, based on your logic, that a G Wagon is not stepping up to the luxury SUV game itself when there are others that cost $100K MORE. That’s why your price argument is just dumb.

Big talk for a fan of the “Best or Nothing” brand.

You. Said. "by 2025". You're doin' an 'smk'.

Neighbor down the street has a silver one that comes out in nice weather. Neat car, too bad Honda didn’t evolve it.

ERG! - the first 20 secs of that injected Hemi sound! ?

August 21st 2021 Dream Cruise is back on!!! Woodward Dream Cruise Returns as Ford Announces Fourth Year Sponsoring America’s Largest Automotive Gathering | Ford Media Center

It could be in the same dealer, the same way Chevrolet and Cadillac can be in the same dealership, but they are separate brands/dealer contracts. Not all Mercedes dealers can sell vans, there are 3 in Pittsburgh, only 1 has vans. Because Mercedes sells more $100k+ cars than anyone else in the world. Their customer base shops in that price bracket, and they have a big customer base.

Because Gottlieb Daimler 125 ago had the motto "the best or nothing," and they honor that to this day. The G-wagon was the fastest selling vehicle in the USA in May, and at an average ATP of $174,700. I don't see many Toyota's selling for $174k, or Lexus for that matter. I don't see Lincoln selling Navigators at $174k, why not? They want to be "world class" then step up to the plate. The vans aren't luxury, they are commercial vehicles, Mercedes markets them that way as well. They aren't even sold though the same dealership network as their cars, nor are they even part of the same business unit as their cars.

What Lincoln is class leading or even top 3? Aren't they like the 8th best selling luxury brand in the USA? And probably not even top 10 globally.

I don't care about brand ATP, because brands with small lines or crappy selling entry level cars have high ATP. Maserati and Alfa Romeo have the 2 best ATP's at FCA, maybe FCA should kill Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep and focus on their high ATP brands are. But oh wait, everyone hear says Maserati and Alfa Romeo lose money. EQS is a $100k+ car, Mercedes has had success selling cars above $100k, they have the largest luxury car owner base in the world. They aren't going into any new price category or going above what their current base buys. EQS will do well in China and Europe, it should do okay here, I think since gas is cheap the S-class will sell much better. As far as Lincoln goes, every sedan they made in the past 10 years has bombed, and all of them started under $50k. People aren't going to pay $70-80k or more on a Lincoln sedan. And here are Lincoln sales in China, under 40k units last year, bank to bank 15% declines, when BMW, Mercedes and Audi did 610k, 640k, and 655k respectively (and all 3 are on pace to top 700k units this year). The other luxury brands have a global base to sell to, Lincoln does not, mostly just American and they don't do so well in America either.

This is true, but look at the early 2000s Continental, the LS, MKZ, MKS, reborn Continental, all of those cars were bad. Who is going to give them a chance after 20 years of bad cars, and Genesis wasn't even around for most of that, and the new G80 is a strong competitor. The dealer I go to for service does not sell vans. https://www.bobbyrahalmotorcar.com

289 Mercedes Vans dealers in North America, and 383 Car dealers in North America. So they don't all sell vans. Maybe Vans requires something special that those other 100 dealers choose not to invest in. Also who cares if they sell commercial cans where they sell cars, they sell Corvettes next to $15k Sparks and Express work vans, no one says they aren't going to buy a Corvette because the dealer sells a work van.