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oldshurst442
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Everything posted by oldshurst442
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That would NOT be the consumer's fault... THAT would be how your PAY structure is formed... Like I said, the industry needs to change. If you are getting paid ONLY if you sell a car...take it up with your industry. I read about the part where the conversation lead to the service industry... YOUR job as a salesman IS to service everybody that comes in to your dealership. If I wanna take 1 year to look at cars THEN to buy....lit is MY right to do so as a consumer... YOU say its a waste of time for a salesman to cater to folk like that? If YOUR industry PAID you by the hour, if YOUR industry PREPARED YOU to SELL cars PROPERLY, if YOUR industry COMPENSATED YOU like YOU deserve and NOT like a piece of meat, if YOUR industry TREATED YOU like a PROFESSIONAL than MAYBE consumers would TREAT YOU like professionals too... Instead what we got...is salesmen looking at consumers like THEY are the problem like shyte you just told us... YEAH! There are some cars that DO NOT change in 2 years... Sure, the kid's opinions on what kind of car he like to own WILL change, but you know what? The more cars you see, the more you know what YOU LIKE! A dealership IS A STORE!!! FIRST AND FOREMOST!!! Who are YOU to tell a consumer when he can or cannot visit? I told you, do NOT put the onus on the consumer for the downfalls of YOUR industry... What difference does it make to a salesman what the consumer tells you? If a consumer has his guard up...there is a REASON for him to be THAT defensive... Maybe it is true that he is looking to buy 6 months from now... Like I said...if YOUR industry gave salespeople ALL the TEACHINGS on HOW to sell properly, lessons on what the car you are selling, what features it has got...yes...real lessons, instead of just making the salesperson learn on his own, paid salespeople an hourly wage, a FAIR hourly wage, a recognition that car salespeople are professionals, that the industry itself BECOMES professional...then salespeople would NOT look at consumers like they are a problem... Like how phoqued up is the phoquing industry when salespeople are looking at people coming into a store a when salespeople do NOT get the answer they are looking for...they view THAT as wasting time? Wasting time? Yeah...lets tackle this... Its a STORE! A DEALERSHIP IS A STORE.... OPEN FOR BUSINESS. And look....all those people...kicking the tires on all these products... What is the point? Technology changes every 6 months, right? So why bother informing yourself? yes, a used car that you like today will not be there tomorrow if you dont buy it now! And yes...decisiveness IS a waste of time....BUT ITS A FACT OF LIFE IN YOUR INDUSTRY!!! LIKE I SAID...LET THE INDUSTRY PAY FOR YOUR TIME... No...you dont sell cars, your ass is gone. But maybe, if the industry ADAPTED its technique, maybe just maybe, consumers would be more sympathetic towards their salesperson... -
Actually...many Americans have spoken... Pontiac Oldsmobile Mercury Plymouth All victims to brands like Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Hyundai, KIA... Cadillac struggling to get American car buyers to buy their cars. BMW, Audi, Mercedes kick its ass in the sales department in the US. Volume is NOT the purpose...but sales are still needed... Buick STILL not a player in its segment. BMW, Audi, Lexus kicks its ass... Dodge and Chrysler are near death. Who knows what the Fiat part of FCA will do with Chrysler and Dodge? You dont have to like what I say....but you cant deny my thought process aint valid...
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Question remains to be answered. It may be a fool's errand. But PSA wants to try to sell here. Hyundai came to our shores in the 1980s when it the US car market was saturated. Toyota, Honda and Datsun/Nissan launched luxury brands during this same time frame in the US and Canada. Let it be known that we are still talking about the famous 1983 time-line... Fiat and Alpha Romeo and Renault were here, so was Peugeot and during this time, they left us... Yugo too...come and gone GM in introduces Saturn to the world... Daewoo...come and gone. Since then, Hyundai introduces KIA and the Japanese luxo brands have survived and thrived. But Pontiac, Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Mercury have gone away. Saturn. SAAB. All gone. What does Peugeot stand to do? Who knows? Maybe KIA will leave the US if Peugeot thrives. I like KIA cars. They look good. So do Peugeot cars. KIA is still trying to find itself. Maybe Peugeot pushes them out. Peugeot has got some interesting CUVs and SUVs... Maybe Dodge and Chrysler goes away... I dont want THAT scenario to happen, but let's face it...MOPAR was good as dead way back in 2009...all we did was just prolong the agony. Maybe Peugeot steals some Chevy and Ford CUV sales and small car sales... Its not as if Chevy and Ford light up American hearts in the small car arena...they do alright, but maybe Peugeot do bettter. Another foreigner company coming here to break American car companies? Sure! Do I like that scenario? NO! But I did answer your question as to how I see things... If Americans have bought the crappy Hyundai Pony and Stellar and Excel and NOW Hyundai not only sells us KIAs but luxury Genesis cars...ANYTHING could happen!!! Its funny... Why? Some of us have held grudges and wont accept Pig-nots, but some of us have forgiven about Hyundai shyte, and Toyota shyte (Toyopet), but some of us also STILL hold grudges against our very own. Rest in Peace Oldsmobile Pontiac Plymouth Mercury Why do I carry on with this? Because caring about the domestic automotive scene and NOT losing it has since loooong past! WE should have NEVER have let GM and Ford and Chrysler get away with the shyte they shoved us, but at the same time, we should have NOT BOUGHT ther shyte that the Germans and the Japanese shoved at us also... Now we question Peugeot? Acura Lexus Infiniti Hyunadai Kia Genesis BMW Mercedes Audi Toyota Honda Mazda Nissan Hyundai We should have said PHOQUE YOU to those a LOOOOONG time ago and NOT accept them as we have!!! What does Peugeot or Citroen have to compel us? I do not know the answer to that! But its sure as hell more interesting than a Chevy Sparx or Ford ecosport or anything small Dodge/Chrsyler has to offer us... I do not like being this way... But I do not like the tone of some of us in here either. PSA is indeed an interesting car company. Far more interesting than what Hyundai was back in the 1980s. And far more interesting in what FCA has to offer. Maybe Im wrong though...
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True...so did GM though... But...GM got out that funk. Right? So did Peugeot.
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JD Power? Or was it these Buicks that traditionally won best brands for quality... Remember..we are initially talking about the year 1983, give or take a couple.
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1983? Wow! Doncha think we are holding the grudge a tad too long? Aurora? As in Oldsmobile? Lets see now...Oldsmobile in 1983... https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a6599/top-automotive-engineering-failures-oldsmobile-diesels/ About the grudge...I get pissy when people cant let go of GM's malaise era... This aint no different! Well... Related to the link above and the rebuttal to your post Peugeot made no worse cars than GM did in the 1980s. Peugeot in Europe today makes cars that could be present day equivalent Oldsmobiles. They are elegant, sporty, modern and luxurious. I dont know about their quality, but they cant be no worse than what GM puts out with Buick. You know, the brand that technically replaced Oldsmobile in North America as Buick was almost dead in North America when GM pulled the plug on Oldsmobile. Buick DID inherite Oldsmobile cars...the Rainier, the Lucerne. To answer your question even further...the American people did hold a grudge with crappy GM products of the mid to late 1970s all the way to the 2000s...when GM declared bankruptcy...when Saturn and Pontiac and Oldsmobile died... Reliability today you ask once more? Again...cant be no worse than our very own domestic brands... So...before you folk try to lynch me...take some time to notice and acknowledge what is my avatar and more importantly...what my name is on this site... To boot, that is the name I will ALWAYS go with on anything automotive... Alls I wanna say is...if you wanna wave the American flag. GREAT! WAVE IT! But you dont hae to justify the pride by denouncing anybody...
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I agree 100% with ALL that you said... Except that quote which I quoted you on... I agree with the fact that the salesperson is doing his job. I also agree that the dealership is there solely to sell cars, and that they need to sell cars any which way they see fit... But...a dealership IS a store. A dealership IS open DURING BUSINESS hours to ACCEPT POTENTIAL customers. A POTENTIAL customer SHOULD be ABLE to VISIT a dealership DURING business hours...NOT before or AFTER business hours. Yes...the salesman NEEDS to sell cars to live and he needs to do his job the way his boss tells him to. We discussed that. As a potential customer though... I NEED TO VISIT A DEALERSHIP WITHOUT THE CONSTANT HARASSING IF I WANT TO BUY THE CAR TODAY. I NEED THE BREATHING ROOM TO SEE FOR MYSELF. A SIMPLE NO THANX SHOULD BE ENOUGH... If a dealership thinks that if a potential client leaves the dealership and that dealership equates THAT as a loss of a sale to another dealership...MAYBE THAT dealership should CHANGE the way they do business and leave the 1950s/1960s/1970s/1980s/1990s where they belong. IN THE PAST!!! Yes. Yes. Yes. I understand that there is a plethora of undetermined, uninformed morons out there that NEED this type of sales tactic even though they say they dont... But...the salespeople and the managers NEED to IDENTIFY the differences between the many types of buyers... The dealerships...should invest in TEACHING their salespeople HOW to sell to people in the 21st century. The DEALERSHIPS need to get together ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY and CHANGE the INDUSTRY around... INSTEAD OF FIGHTING with the PHOQUING customer...the PHOQUING INDUSTRY NEEDS TO CHANGE THIS! NO! Not the CUSTOMER...HE JUST WANTS TO BUY A PHOQUING CAR. ITS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PHOQUING INDUSTRY TO CHANGE... STOP BLAMING THE CUSTOMER AND PUTTING THE ONUS ON HIM!!!
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Yeah...well... My car company is known for PROSPERITY, FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY!!! Dont forget Rock-N-Roll!!! YOUR car company is know for HOMICIDE, GENOCIDE and...and...SUICIDE...
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Its all about the roll-over safety. Yes...yes...the M-B coupe's roof is engineered to not collapse in case of a roll-over.... I applaud the fact that Mercedes Benz went all out to make a pillar-less roof. Its a good thing in my book. But for modern coupes.... This is my #1 side profile that I prefer. Tied with this guy 2nd place belongs to this guy And then everybody else... What I like about this guy 1. pillar-less roof line 2. Long hood, short deck styling. But they all do that... 3. That is about it. The lines are just as conservatively boring as the ATS coupe. If you noticed, the Infiniti, The Challenger anf the Mustang all have hips....I like hips. I like curvy. In my women and in my cars... The Mercedes Benz and the ATS are androgynous, sexless... Not my style man. Not. My. Style.
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Which reminds me... My favorite car of all time is EXACTLY what you folk are kvetching about...(the wheelbase of MY favorite car of all time just ekes it out, I guess!) Oh YEAH!!! I aint judging here..but none of those coupes hold a candle to MY favorite car of all time... Wait a minute...I lied...here comes the JUDGE!
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I really dont know if I like it...or hate it. It has nothing to do with me hating Toyota. Im just not sure how I feel about how it looks. Id say me hatin' on Toyota is but a small factor. Id also say me not being into small hatches all that much would be another small factor. But those two things do not amount to anything as to how really confused I am about the design of this new Corolla. Sure there are design features that really suck on it when looking at those elements by themselves. But as a whole, those design elements that suck on it really work on it...as a whole... Yes, Tokyo has weird car culture and that translates to really weird and ugly (to us) design languages...but that does not mean that I should be hatin' on this car. To which why Im confused. Because I have come to terms with weird Japanese car culture, and this new Corolla really really is cool when you consider Japanese car culture. THAT is the part I like about it. Just like the Nissan Juke. Ugly mofo, but I LOVE it! Kia Soul (Not Japanese but Oriental non the less), ugly thing, but I LIKE it. The only weird lookin' Japanese car I did not like was the Nissan Cube. OK...Ill just say that I like this new Corolla since there is nothing about it that truly makes me wanna hate it. Yes its ugly, but I like it!
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Chevrolet Malibu Chevrolet Impala Honda Accord Probably the victims of their respective brands equivalent CUVs cannibalizing their sales. Also, the Malibu and the Impala probably compete with each other for the remainder sedan sales. And for the Impala, we add the Lacrosse and now the Regal... As for the Accord, we could add that the new larger Civic also steals sales. AND, the TLX...for those that want a sedan from the Honda corporate company but prefer having the Acura badge instead of the Honda one.
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1988 huh? Well, I did drive a 1986 Celebrity in Montreal from 1990-1994 (daddy's car, family car)i n Montreal wintery weather that is on par to Minnesota's winter. Actually, Im still living in Montreal. This thread is right up my alley. So...we WILL go back into time and I WILL tell you what FWD car I liked then. 1989 Pontiac Grand Prix TURBO. Yes yes....the year should be 1988 and not 1989. The 1988 Grand Prix was dope, but the Mclaren Turbo version was doper... but as a family car, I think I remember to have liked the Bonneville SSE.
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I think it IS a business model. To see what sticks. Eliminate what doesnt. Find what works and go that way, get rid of what doesnt. And yes, eventually, they trim the fat. But not without creating a fan base for their vehicles. Even the models that did not sell all the well, still had some buyers...they were in THAT showroom. And now that their vehicle wont be coming back, maybe they had a good experience with that model and will be back in that very showroom buying another M-B... I know what I just said could be challenged with brand loyalty data...it still does not change the fact that even with the slow selling models, people got to experience a BMW or Mercedes Benz vehicle. That is MORE than Cadillac since Cadillac has NO models that these people would consider buying as Cadillac lacks many many products in many many niches... And yes, Cadillac or GM, other than Corvette or Camaro or the V Series Cadillacs, are not daring greatly. And I dont mean speed, but awesome engineering and taking chances and growing the brands that are Camaro, Corvette or V-Series...
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Yes. I agree to the XT5-V not being much of an interest and therefore not a money maker or at the very least, getting people in the showroom. Soccer moms, suburban housewives, scrawny yuppie middle managers that think they got a clue but really dont, dont really buy into performance vehicles of any kind really. And they dont get excited when the sales rep talks to them about high performance either. They dont go out of their way to visit a showroom based on the fact that Model XYZ won the 24 hours of Lemans or the Nascar race on Sunday and want to buy the baby version of that car or any other car in the showroom...and the XT5 or the RX or the X1 from BMW are just vehicles with luxury intentions that makes them feel good... The Escalade...now that would be something of an interesting footnote in automotive history if Cadillac engineered and offered something wild in powertrain and in sporty suspension demeanor options. "If it aint broke dont fix it" would not apply here as the Escalade aint broke and it sells just fine. But "why the phoque not???!!!" would do wonders in getting people in the showrooms just to look at one and see for themselves how stupendously nutty the vehicle might be and you never know, they may just drive off in a brand new CTS-V instead because they would deem the Escalade ESV-V too crazy and weird to explain to their neighbours...
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Well, of course. But where is that XT5-V? Or any other performance oriented CUV from Cadillac? The Germans are pumping out all kinds of models. Sure, they are pumping them out at an insane rate and its more akin to see what sticks rather than business savvy, but still. The models are there. Cadillac makes concepts that has the planet salivating, ALL THE PLANET, and are afraid to build it. (minus the couple that they did build, but failed miserably in the market-place, but that was because of their piss-poor execution than anything else, which means that Cadillac product planners got no clue of what is going on in the market place...)
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Yeah...but about that... Could it also be that Audi interiors are, like awesome, and when people actually sit inside an Audi CUV or SUV or sedan above the A4 car, are impressed and when are cross shopping with other brands like Acura, Buick, Infiniti, Cadillac and the like, are less impressed and go on to buy that Audi instead?
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Yup. And I dont talk cars with them. Ive stopped conversatin' with people like that. IA while ago. Not too long ago though but I made it a rule that I wont be wasting my time with folk like that...on any subject, not just cars. When I see the entourage near me be filled with cluelessness and clueless people, I stop being the person to enlighten and I have become the person to flee. I enjoy the parties and get-togethers I go to much more now.
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Im sorry for that. Drew made that case loud and clear that idiots are in fact everywhere! Sorry.
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Well, yourself and Drew just now has proved to me that there are many idiots around. I too have met idiots like that. But those idiots are not car people to begin with. So...all kinds of shyte comes out of their mouths. Im basing my statements calling them out as trolls to the people that ARE car people and have an inkling of what is actually happening in the automotive world. In Quebec, the furthest place in North America that one could call it being a car enthusiast place, and I have yet to meet a car person that would be THAT dense....(non-car people aside...) THAT is how Im basing my statement.
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This much I agree. So..Drew, THIS would be a HUGE plus for a RWD CUV for Cadillac. Albeit the XT5 is still needed. And needed to be FWD based. There NEEDS to be high performance/high end RWD/AWD CUVs and SUVs for Cadillac...
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From what I gather...there wont be any "re-badged" Chevy stigma... (I cant believe Im still reading trolly responses like that in 2018...)
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Brand image? Cant get away with the "re-badged" Chevy stigma? Where is that stigma present in those 4 photographs? You are barking up the wrong tree in all 4 of those segments...albeit the GMC, Buick and Cadillac are in the same market niche fighting for the same market dollars...but nothing says that they cannot co-exist. In fact...they MUST co-exist to ensure their respective brands get sales... What you may want to say, is that Cadillac needs RWD sporty oriented CUVs and SUVs with V Series badging to ensure enthusiasts are well represented for the brand... CUVs and SUVs to go up against these machines from BMW and Mercedes Because either you are trolling with this statement... because a CTS was NEVER an Impala based car....EVER... never looked like the CTS could even BE an Impala. So...either these guys you bumped into are trolls...much like yourself, or just cant stand Cadillac and/or GM and NOTHING that Cadillac and/or GM will do will EVER change that. Because quite honestly, NOBODY is THAT moronic and clueless to confuse a CTS of any generation with that of an Impala of any generation. Maybe if we went and compared a 1980s Caprice with a 1980s Fleetwood...but I doubt your entourage were old enough to remember those cars...
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The Infiniti Q60 has got to be the most prettiest car in its class. Its got lines that only Italian car designers could only achieve. And that is definitely a good thing.
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I dont need or want a 6000 lbs SUV. I do however want a 6000 lbs sedan or coupe. I dont need that either. But I want one. But Ill take a small convertible if anybody offered me one. *SIGH* Cadillac does NOT offer a car like this Benz though, so my choices are limited if I wanted to spend a good chunk of my money on a small convertible and I wanted a luxury oriented convertible. Sure there is the Camaro convertible, but I want to buy something from a luxury brand.... Yup...Benz it is! So yeah...I too call bullshyte MR. DFELT on the C Class convertible lacking passion! PS: It dont matter if the dash "looks" cheap... The 3 pointed Star up front is what counts...THAT is THE point!
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