oldshurst442

^^^ Yup... And @smk4565 I guess you missed the snorkel... Besides...the Russians in this case do it better! Those is what I call REAL off road SUVs...in the TRUEST sense of the acronym that was started by that humble little General Purpose Vehicle that we now know today as JEEP With all said and done...at the end of the day....Id still rather the JEEP though... Something about 'Merica Phoque YEAH! that I prefer over Commie Ruskies!

Ill take the one that won the war... To boot...BECAUSE its an offroader...and luxury and off the beaten path are opposites of the class spectrum and therefore a LUXURY OFFROAD SUV is A BLOODY OXΥΜΟRON... Ill start with this Or this And spend tons of money making it do this and making it look like this And have money left over to buy several of these And these Laughing at all the idiots that buy LUΧURY OFF ROAD SUVs Land Rovers, Escalades and G Wagons alike... Sue me!

I absolutely loved the article! Thanx for posting it.

The car above is niiiiiiice. I like. But its a computer rendering,right? It dont matter. Its niiiiiiice. But....I think Ive seen that ass before. Yes. Yes I have. That rear end could easily go on a modern Cadillac coupe. The next Elmiraj concept or CTS CT5 Coupe.

Yeah well...the Brooklyn Dodgers also won a World Series in 1955...and Joltin' Joe had looong retired by then... And when the Dodgers was the talk of the town in 1955, the Yankees quietly became legends again with Mantle and Maris and the Dodgers quietly were no longer playing at Ebbetts field in Brooklyn... And then there was this When the Yankees was at the bottom... But quietly this guy came along to fortify the Yankees as the BEST TEAM IN HISTORY IN ALL OF SPORTS! There is a small connection and purpose to that that I did I doubt however if you could figure that out...

You mean to tell me that you cant find a relation? Common dude... At the end of the day...both are of the sports category... Car racing is a sport, non? (some might argue that, but in no way that car racing is NOT SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT!!!) And this discussion is about Ferrari and Mercedes and Vette doing battle in the racing part of the car equation, non? But yeah...Im in left field somewhere...PUN INTENDED!

From WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One Kinda makes those recent Mercedes Benz Championships hollow, huh? I get why we should feel all nice and warm about the Project One and all...and as an AUTOMOBILE enthusiast I FEEL THE LOVE for the Project One...but... As a Dallas Cowboys fan...Troy Aikman is my guy... Also...my choice for GOAT at the 1/4 back position is this guy... well...until this guy came along Just because I root for 1 team...it does not mean I HAVE to denounce all other teams just because of sheer fanboyism... I analyzed and dissected this discussion front to back, back to front... When I say that a possible mid-engined Corvette WILL give the Project One a run for its money... It aint ME being the fanboy of saying that...as I showed that a Vette dominates...and people that ENGINEER them and MOSTLY the people that own them have that passion to make them dominate... But tis the people who ONLY will give props to the Project One and negate ANYTHING other than the Project One... Several of you have gone outta your way to denounce the Vette and Ferrari trying to prove to ME that I am the one outta line...yet ironically...YOUR arguments to me are ALL OF FANBOYISM... Mine are of reality! YOURS is purely out of spite... A mid-engined C8 is vaporware? Sure...it may be...but that is more of you folk wanting it to be vaporware rather than what is really going on... Not wanting to admit that a mid-engined Vette WILL punch above its weight class and give hypercars a run for their money while ONLY praising the Project One? Yeah....wear those blinders but tell me Im crazy...while resorting to the vaporware comment again... Photos and mock-ups versus actual spy pics of a possible vehicle actually PHYSICALLY being tested... Both have a realism to it, but both have vaporware written all over them... How is it though that we could speculate what one car will do without any real facts...and CEO words dont count, and we cant speculate what the other will do KNOWING what Vette engineers and Corvette Racing endeavors has achieved while thousands of loyal Vette hot rodders and racer and after market producers has actually accomplished with the Vette over the last 60 phoquing years???!!!

I understand why you hate that..... But there are fanboys such as El Kabong and SMK (but it in real world...automotive journalists on the web or magazines and stuff) that will ALWAYS denounce no matter what the Ford GT really does... And THAT is why I understand why Ford would want to limit exposure... Prove your loyalty with your pocket...if not....PHOQUE OFF! Ferrari does that too....and its frustrating as an enthusiast that only gets to read about those kinds of cars as we dont have the deep pockets to prove our worth...but at the end of the day...does it really matter? The Ford GT is proving its worth on real world racing tracks...and its predecessor, is actually being hot rodded, used and abused...in other words, the Ford GT has a loyal following. As a manufacturer...I think....nobody wants to hear bullshyte arguments on how their pride and joy sucks... Ferrari, who EVERYBODY guns for, Porsche, Vette, Ford GT, Lamborghini and even Mercedes...have thin skin...and I dont blame them one bit. This type of trash talk over time...could affect your image... Yes yes....on Ferrari...sometimes its warranted... Ford was nowhere near that arrogant...yes he was...Henry that is...but then again...what auto manufacturer that has his last name attached to the cars isnt it? Point is...wanna drive the Ford GT...buy it!

The old adage win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies...win or lose...boom or bust....moot point. The fact that Ferrari has THAT many records and championships and the fact that the other teams are ALWAYS gunning for Ferrari is what counts... Ferrari was, is and will forever remain the team to beat as some of those records seem like they will NEVER be reached by other teams and manufacturers. The pressure is on Ferrari to continue to win, but there is also pressure for other teams to PREVENT Ferrari from winning. The Yankees are hated for that exact reason. Whether they buy players (Bambino, Pedro Martinez), or they groom them from their own organization (Joe Dimmagio, Derek Jeter), no doubt about it...the Yankees ARE the Major League. The Red Sox unfortunately will forever remain behind The Pin Striped Yankees. It dont end there for Ferrari...Ferrari is also targeted at the 24 hour of LeMans over at IMSA... 1999-2004 was the last time Ferrari dominated...like the Yankees...it is in THIS era that wins ALSO do come... Mercedes winning 3 in a row NOW is another moot point... LIke...WTF is your argument? Just because Mercedes won 3 years in a row....A short decade ago...Ferrari won 5 in a row... This reminds me of the Red Sox winning 3 Championships since the beginning of this Millennial era and finaly breaking free of the Bambino Curse and in there winning in style AGAINST the Yankess...the Yankees also winning 3-4 World Series since the late 1990s after a decade or two of mediocrity...yet the Yankees are sooooo far ahead... And while yes...F1 is more fun when others win too...much like in MLB...you dont have to tell me...Montreal lost their Expos MUCH THE VERY SAME WAY AS MLB USED TO RUN THEIR LEAGUE AS F1 IS RUNNING THEIRS NOW... I HATE THE YANKEES AS THE YANKEES (mostly daddy Steinbrenner) HAVE COME TO SYMBOLIZE THE REASON WHY THE EXPOS WENT TO WASHINGTON AND THE REASON WHY FOR THE ATHLETICS TO RESORT TO ANALYTICS TO WIN GAMES.... Back to Mercedes... What are we...in 5th grade to discuss total Championships? Trust me...I know of these types of discussions...I live in a city with MULTIPLE DYNASTIES in hockey... and yes the HABS are HATED for THAT reason... Still does not change the fact that the HABS ARE HOCKEY! Trust me...even though the HABS have NOT won since 1993...the team is NOT frustrated...the fans are...not the organization... Same with Ferrari...yet they won 5 in a row a decade ago...Ferrari is quite arrogantly smug of where they are in history regarding racing... Ford gave them a black eye AND a bloody nose in the 60s with the Ford GT thing... Again last year...I dont think they cared all that much for last year....but in that span in between...Ferrari did continue winning shyte.... So...like I said... Ferrari Folk ACTUALLY take pride in what Enzo started and RACE their cars...just like Porsche and Vette guys... Does Mercedes have that even though Mercedes ALSO has a rich racing heritage?

Courtesy of wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_Ferrari https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_in_Formula_One Like I said... Ferrari is like the Montreal Canadiens... Or...like the New York Yankees and Mercedes Benz is like the Boston Red Sox in MLB The Red Sox are on a roll in the 2000s just like Mercedes Benz... Problem is...

Problem is...people actually race their Ferraris... http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a12216811/30-million-dollar-ferrari-car-crash/

True. Only spy photos and rumors of some sort of reveal at this year' Detroit Auto Show. Unlike with the Ford GT surprise... http://blog.caranddriver.com/latest-spy-pics-of-mid-engined-2019-c8-corvette-best-view-yet-of-cabin-and-overall-proportions/ And even then...like you said...it may all be just over in a blink of an eye and these photographs will just be photos of...something...and nothing... This much I do agree... But...the Project One is just a mock-up... A Mock-up with descriptive words about said mock-up is just as "real" as said spy pics... Those spy pics of a possible mid-engined GM car...probably the Corvette as JDN outright denied any Cadillac badge adorning such a thing...and the people witnessing these pics are knowing this is truly a mid-engined affair... http://autoweek.com/article/spy-photos/new-spy-shots-mid-engine-c8-corvette-show-more-ever And yes...I highlighted probably... THAT would be the difference though between the Project One as we KNOW the Project One WILL be coming. But...THAT is the thing... Fanboyism goes both ways.... There is more to a Corvette than production stock performance numbers....and BEFORE we just claim victory about a Project One Mercedes automobile and then trying to out-do me and call an OBVIOUS attempt at GM FINALLY getting serious about mid-engined cars (FIERO WAS CHEAPENED)...WE MUST NOT COUNT OUT WHAT THE REAL WORLD DOES WITH CORVETTES... ANY car could be tuned and modified to out run ANY OTHER car... AND I HATE when the argument does end up going there when Mustangs and Camaros and Supra Twin Turbos are being compared to each other...stock versus modified fanboy arguments... In THIS case though... Corvettes racing on race tracks ALL OVER the world is a different animal..and YOU know that Corvettes DO get used and abused...because THAT is what Corvettes are built for! [email protected] million dollars...NOBODY will be racing this "F1 for the street" hypercar...and you know what...I doubt the Project One...all 250 of them... are gonna be built to be used and abused on an almost daily basis... Let us not forget that a Corvette is engineered as a daily driver as well as a race car... Therefore...I get really pissy when fanboys just BLATANTLY dismiss what a Corvette actually does with REAL people actually daily driving them Mon-Fri AND racing them Sat-Sun and back to work on Monday...for the most part... PS: I DID give props to the Project One... Both CCAP and SMK DENIED CORVETTE MERITS... So who are the trolls? Me? Its difficult to talk sanely when people dont want to act sane!

Ive refrained to continue to talk about this as @CCAP and @SMK treat me like IM THE FANBOY.... Ive bit my lip on this yet both CCAP's choice words and SMK' attitude aint nothing but fanboyism... This is what I said... Firstly...the Project One is as nonexistent as the C8... Secondly...the link below will explain what it is what I meant by Which Im glad you said this as the aforementioned link will also address what you said... http://www.autoextremist.com/ But MOSTLY for THIS LINK ABOUT CORVETTE! http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a12024898/this-generation-doesnt-remember-a-bad-corvette/ If we are truly real to ourselves...not fanboys, not trolls trying to outdo another internet persona...BUT TRULY REAL...one will take the time to read that Road And Track opinion piece and truly stop the idiocy of trying to yell louder whose penis is bigger... The Corvette...well....you folk figure it out....if you truly are real car enthusiasts...

I meant to post this in the Random Thoughts Thread. Sometimes Im amazed at my own incompetence. When I think I cant be any more dumb.... Im too lazy to erase and re-do... Rest In Peace

Just a random thought that came to my mind...with all posts that I quoted on... And in true Oldshurst442 fashion..in song with youtube links...

I dont think you understand the meaning of performance car...or maybe you do but is sour that a Chevy defeats AMG... I dont think you understand what Corvette stands for... And we dont have ANY specs of a C8 Vette... Using your OWN proof....Chevys in fact dominate on tracks...so phoque off with your designed for corners nit straight line shyte Chevrolet races in enough leagues...F1 aint neccessary...especially how Bernie and his Jail Bird Nazi lover run things...Chevy with two cars...Corvette and Camaro...tear up on German shyte...all for the fraction of the price...and Chevrolet aftermarket performance support really make a mess with German shyte... Sorry SMK... Chevrolet has just as deep heritage in speed and performance as Benz does...Louis Chevrolet was a Swiss-American race car driver, co-founder of the Chevrolet Motor Car Company in 1911, and a founder in 1916 of the Frontenac Motor Corporation, which made racing parts for Ford's Model T. Anyway you slice it dude... You mess with Chevy...your nose gets bloodied...

You think you helped your argument with that post? That is a 2-3 year old Vette while the 2018 Mercedes-AMG GT R is new....unless of course that is a typo... Anyway...the ZR-1 is about to be released...but it dont matter...the Mercedes-AMG GT R is priced at 157 000 US dollars while the Z06 is HALF that price... Not to mention the Camaro... That would be 2 CHEVROLETS on that list versus 1 AMG... One could buy both Chevys and still have enough money left over to tune the Z06 to BEAT the Mercedes-AMG GT R around that track... 1st point Project One not out yet...not due for another couple of years... 2nd point... This time..the same 2 Chevys but NO AMG 3rd point... The mid-engined C8 will be out the same time the Project One will be out... It will come close to the Project One's time plus the ZR-1 will be there making 4 Chevys on that list to just that 1 AMG... My My...The C63 AMG barely beats an ATS V...no need to mention the Camaro ZL1 And you said there was 2 more C Class AMGs to choose from? I thought the C63 AMG was GOD the way you go about it!!! I like MY point of view better..AMG is diluted....

Nope...not luxury cars...performance cars...JUST LIKE a C Class AMG... Because a C Class is NOT a luxury car either... It pretends to be luxury.... Listen SMK... You hold the entry level shyte to high standards....I dont... I really dont care for this discussion... A C Class is nothing but an econobox for me...nothing YOU will say will change the way I feel... YOU will not change your views either no mattter what I say also... The difference is that Mercedes Benz will NEVER get my money with them peddling econoboxes to me pretending they are luxury cars...entry level bullshyte brainwashing techniques... A Camaro ZL1 1LE has a high price tag because of the performance goodies that are engineered on it...I dont care if aint it luxury...ditto for a 4 door Charger Hellcat or Chevy SS... I dont need a badge to make me feel good. Kudos for all the latte swilling idiots out there that need to be coddled with entry level luxury fakery... When a lowly Chevy...spanks an almighty AMG...then AMG in my eyes aint almighty... It aint a good thing for AMG to lose to a Chevy... THIS is how I sees it... You dont want to see it that way? Good for you...if you happen to own a C Class AMG and is confronted with a Camaro...just make sure the Camaro is of a 4 cylinder variety...because if it has a V8...he dont have to be a good driver to beat you...YOU on the other hand has to be INCREDIBLE... And you know what....HE has NOTHING to lose....he drives a lowly Chevy...'tis you that spent an arm and a leg on a supposed performance machine... Luxury you say? Im sure the dude driving the V8 cares more for the rumble of his V8 rather than leatherette seats... And if YOU havent learned that lesson yet...then you are still a young at mind...

You call it performance models..and hooray for Mercedes Benz. and AMG I call THAT diluting the brand... Because the not ALL AMG C class cars dominate...as soon as you have a Camaro or Mustang dominating a C Class AMG....point is moot that AMG is something special... Talking about AMG being special...and RARE...you cant just slap that badge on anything either... I get that AMG is a hot commodity right now and Mercedes Benz wants to cash in...and good on for Mercedes for that! In the long run...it probably will dilute that RARE and SPECIAL image AMG it once had... Its HOT right now as AMG WAS RARE AND SPECIAL for those folk that are buying AMGs today but the next generation of enthusiasts wont be seeing AMG that way tomorrow when 3 Class cars adorn the AMG badge and 2 of those 3 AMGs gets spanked by Camaros... YOU will deflect and say not competitors... I will say this: As the buyers going forward in 2017 ARE flocking to CUVs and SUVs...I must agree with you here and ask the same questions... Im sure at this point...the way the Escalade and XT5 are selling versus the ATS and CTS...a XT5 V and Escalade V would do wonders for Cadillac's image in the performance world (IF and ONLY IF Cadillac V Series SUVs could dominate the way the ATS and CTS Vs do)...Hell...Cadillac's image over all... The ATS V and CTS V do NOTHING for Cadillac's image as of now! I have down played AMG enough... Its time to praise AMG... I agree with you here 100% The ONLY thing I wish AMG STOP doing is OVERLY doing the lower grade Mercedes cars as THOSE cars are NOT deserving of the AMG badge... Quite honestly...Id rather a WRΧ STi VW Golf R and GTi Chevrolet SS Charger Scatpack and Hellcat 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD than ANY C Class AMG or CLA AMG... Probably costs me less to buy, probably more fun to drive without the fakeness of "performance and luxury" Then there is the 2 door coupes and roadsters Challenger Mustang Fiat 124 Abarth And there are many folk like me as I dont see that many C Class AMGs on the road where I come from... But Mustangs, Challengers VW Golf GTis and Rs, WRXs are EVERYWHERE... And yes....people drive their V8 Mustangs and Challengers in the winter here....so AWD is not THAT big a factor... It is...but that is where the WRΧs come in...and winter beaters... I dont have the garage space for a winter beater and a summer car...hence the Acura TL SH-AWD... An no...the SH-AWD was for the 3.7 liter V6 with 305 naturally aspirated horses and NOT for the winter as the regular TL came with the 3.5 liter and 275-285 horses...

General Motors has 5 models on 4 cars that dominate performance. Cadillac CTS V Cadillac ATS V sedan Cadillac ATS V coupe Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE Both the Corvette and Camaro have other trims that dominate performance Chevrolet is getting ready to launch 2 new Corvettes in the next year and a half... a) and more powerful C7 b) a new platformed mid-engined C8 - and that new C8 will have other better performing trims The Cadillacs all perform quite well...and their replacements are gonna be sold soon...the performance versions will soon be on top of Camaro performance... The Camaro needs to shine NOW more than the others... I dont get why you dont see that....

Ummm....no. 4-5 years later? That becomes old news... The Camaro has a storied past. Legendary past. It has competition that is older than you and I and Im 44 years old.... It has to be better than a Mustang....it has to kick the Mustang's ass...NOW...not 5 years later... It had to be better than the old Challenger and AMC pony car. It had other rival that indirectly competed with it segment and powertrain wise...yet these rivals still competed and STILL compete with the Camaro SALES wise because such is cars sales....segments get indirectly thrown together as each sporty and sports car fight for the same car enthusiast dollar...a sale for a Camaro means one less sale that a Mazda Miata did not get... A sale for a BMW Z4 means that a Dodge Challenger Scat Pack was not sold... The BMW M3, The Supra, The Datsun 240 that became the 300 ZX TT that became the 350 and 370, the Hyundai Genesis Coupe and others...all have competed and still compete for that enthusiast dollar that the Camaro does DIRECT battle with regardless of powertrain or country of origin... Some cars that I mentioned died, some came back from the dead, some might come back, some will never see the light ever again... It actually happened to the Camaro...IT DIED. It MIRACULOUSLY came back...and its CURRENT state is more fragile than ever before as coupes dont sell today...sporty coupes even less and as it happens...cars today are more evenly matched than ever before with different personalities that cater to all kinds of enthusiasts... That is why a Camaro today...has a turbo 4 cylinder version, that is quite capable to do battle with a German BMW 2 and 4 Series base car...or Miata...different personalities...but all 4 (the 2 BMWs, the Miata and the Camaro) still fight for that 1 consumer that will make 1 enthusiast car purchase... It has to do battle on the base side...it has to do battle on the high side... Even a FWD based AWD 4 door coupe turbo 4 cylinder CLA becomes a battle for the Camaro V8... The Camaro has to appeal to all those cars... It cannot lose performance to most of these...shyte it even does battle with the ATS...yeah...like how a Trans Am did battle. About the ATS coupe.... It does not sell well....either in base form or V form. Maybe Cadillac is waiting to attack when the CT3 (ATS replacement) comes along... The CTS V kicks ass...it kicks ass so much that for the last 2 years, the competition has not caught up to the CTS V. There are hardly any buyers...but it aint because the CTS V sucks in performance... Back to the Camaro... The Camaro waits 3-4 years to get the good stuff...GM might as well cancel the Camaro and spend the development money elsewhere...

You only wanna see what you wanna see...dont you? If they had limited the Camaro because of the Vette...then new GM would just be like old 1970s/1980s GM... Lots of great potential sports cars GM laid to waste because of stupid mentality like that. A Pontiac Banshee that never left the ground... A Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am that was forced upon Pontiac that ended up being too much like a Camaro save for engine and suspension set-ups....but in the end just ended up being a badge engineered copy anyway...The Trans Am had potential to kick Corvette ass...but was not allowed too... The 1989 Turbo Trans Am was neutered...the LS1 4rth generation was also neutered. Not to mention the Camaro from years 1970.5-2002. And yes... maybe that is one reason of many why the Camaro died...its still a factor I think why it died. It did come back...but the Trans Am never did... Speaking of the turbo 3.8...a Buick Grand National GNX was FASTER than the Vette...but Buick was NOT allowed to advertise that fact and probably was not allowed to make it handle twisties to really make it a modern muscle car...relegating it to being just a Drag race special... A Pontiac Fiero that Pontiac had great things in mind for but GM corporate cheapened the shyte out of it... The North American Kappa twins aka Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky...the development money was not enough to begin with...but it goes to show you that GM corporate used to love to spend a great deal of money on new exciting products only to half-ass them or not truly commit to them and ultimately let them die off... They brought back the Camaro from the dead... Should they just let the damned thing suffocate and ultimately die AGAIN just because the Corvette or possibly Cadillac should be on top? That makes no sense...and it HAS happened at GM in the past...

Over at Dodge... it will only cost you 1 dollar per seat to re-gain the other 3 passenger seats for a total of 3 dollars 1 dollar for a carpeted trunk 1 dollar for a crate and in that crate you get two narrow front wheels, a performance ECU with high-octane fuel calibration, a replacement instrument panel, a personalized ID badge, a performance air filter, two valve stems, and passenger mirror block off plates and tools...a hydraulic floor jack, cordless impact wrench with charger, a torque wrench, tire pressure gauge and a tool bag. Nothing beats the great American value game! Although a Porsche of the nature you are talking about is a beast and a very compelling car for me to own...a Demon is more my style...(I will just simply ignore the R8...even with the V10) But Ill be honest...a Hellcat will do just fine...no need for the Demon... Ill even settle for the lowly Scat Pack...

Yes it is...the Camaro it is. Its a great feat in engineering in its own right. The Nissan GT-R too. I think the Camaro ZL1 1LE relies less on the electronic aides though. Both have "back seats"...sure... it dont matter...for all intents and purposes...compared to other cars on that list, yeah...both cars carry extra weight in the back... Sure...Ill agree to that. However, I dont think the GT-R is out dated...PERFORMANCE wise. I think its a beast and a testament to how well it was engineered... Its looks are dated. Its looks were dated the very same day it was launched a decade ago or so...but that has nothing to do on its ability to perform around a race track and its pure acceleration for a heavy car... Honestly...I wonder on that too... But lets be honest. It is a Camaro. It HAS to considerably outperform a Mustang. It HAS to out perform by a huuuuge landslide a Bimmer 2-3-4 Series "M" badge on all levels of performance... The ATS V is an outstanding performer too....but when any 1LE trimmed Camaro kicks ass let alone the ZL-1...and the ATS-V shares no similar love, one has to wonder why is that? Maybe its because Cadillac finds it useless as of now to push the performance boundaries of the ATS-V further when it aint selling well and they are waiting for the replacement to come? Like I said in the other post....Chevy has learned many things from Corvette Racing...its applying that to the Vette and the Camaro. Their is NO need to limit the Camaro...its stupid to do so. If they had limited the Camaro because of the Vette...then new GM would just be like old 1970s/1980s GM... Lots of great potential sports cars GM laid to waste because of stupid mentality like that. A Pontiac Banshee that never left the ground... A Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am that was forced upon Pontiac that ended up being too much like a Camaro save for engine and suspension set-ups....but in the end just ended up being a badge engineered copy anyway...The Trans Am had potential to kick Corvette ass...but was not allowed too... The 1989 Turbo Trans Am was neutered...the LS1 4rth generation was also neutered. Not to mention the Camaro from years 1970.5-2002. And yes... maybe that is one reason of many why the Camaro died...its still a factor I think why it died. It did come back...but the Trans Am never did... Speaking of the turbo 3.8...a Buick Grand National GNX was FASTER than the Vette...but Buick was NOT allowed to advertise that fact and probably was not allowed to make it handle twisties to really make it a modern muscle car...relegating it to being just a Drag race special... A Pontiac Fiero that Pontiac had great things in mind for but GM corporate cheapened the shyte out of it... The North American Kappa twins aka Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky...the development money was not enough to begin with...but it goes to show you that GM corporate used to love to spend a great deal of money on new exciting products only to half-ass them or not truly commit to them and ultimately let them die off... They brought back the Camaro from the dead... Should they just let the damned thing suffocate and ultimately die just because the Corvette or possibly Cadillac should be on top? That makes no sense... And here you are...you are trying to fault GM for a phoquing awesome Camaro...yet dont ask the same for a CLA AMG...you are content with a CLA AMG that gets spanked from a Camaro... If you aint gonna improve on your performance trims and cars to truly be the best...why bother? THAT dilutes the trim badge (AMG on the likes of CLA) or it kills off the model outright (Trans Am, Fiero etc...) The Vette...there will be faster, better, more Alpha Dog Corvettes a-coming that will equal the ZL1-1LE Camaro and probably supplant it ...the ZR-1...the C8 mid-engined Zora...the E-Ray...in the months (and years) to come... Yes...it will probably be making MORE than 670 HP sans electrics and probably closer to 1500 when all else is added up... @2.5 million dollars...the Chiron and whatever Ferrari has up its sleeve on their next hypercar...Im sure Mercedes-AMG wants to dominate and spank both asses...and Im sure they can and will... They are probably being coy with the numbers...kinda like the Hellcats...and when it will be time to be shown and sold...BOOM! SURPRISE for everyone! Great engineering at work...this I agree!

Are you that dense? BMW and AUDI race with Porsche in another league... One that Ferrarri and Chevrolet races in... One that EASILY has the best history and the toughest endurance to its legendary name... About the 2018 Camaro ZL-1...not too shabby huh? All with just RWD NO AWD NO Mid engined buffonery and NO F1 engine and NO F1 suspension and NO F1 whatever...NO electric motor boosters NO carbonfibre everything... About the Corvette...specifically a 2021 or 2022 E-Ray... It probably will have 1000 plus horsepower...the next ZR-1 will be in the 750 plus horse range WITHOUT electric motors... Remember....this AMG Mercedes Project One has 650 turbocharged horses without the electrics additions... Remember...the C7R has a 5.5 liter V8 with "only" 500 some odd horses... Remember that a NEW motor is to be introduced for it...probably as high tech than anythong out there and quite beastlier than the legendary Chevrolet Small Block OHV it has now... Remember that the Chevrolet Small Block is quite a performer itself...as good as say...a F1 engine... Remember...that a Corvette know is VERY close related to its race car stablemate... Remember that Corvette Racing is VERY succesfull... Remember that a mid-engined Corvette is racing as of now... NextEV Nio EP9 6:45.90 Watch Onboard ’16 2. Radical SR8LM 6:48.00 Watch Onboard ’09 3. Lamborghini Huracan Performante 6:52.01 Watch Onboard ’18 4. Radical SR8 6:56.08 Watch Onboard ’05 5. Porsche 918 Spyder 6:57.00 Watch Onboard ’13 6. Lamborghini Aventador LP 750-4 Superveloce 6:59.73 Watch Onboard ’15 7. Viper ACR-Extreme 7:03.23 Watch Onboard ’17 8. Nissan GT-R Nismo 7:08.68 Watch Onboard ’15 9. Mercedes-AMG GT-R 7:10.92 Watch Onboard ’17 10. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 Watch Onboard ’09 11. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:12.13 Watch Onboard ’10 12. Porsche 911 GT3 7:12.70 Watch Onboard ’18 13. Lexus LFA Nurburgring Package 7:14.64 Watch Onboard ’12 14. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 Watch Onboard ’05 15. Camaro ZL1 1LE 7:16.00 Watch Onboard ’18