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    William Maley

    New York 2018: 2019 Cadillac CT6 V-Sport Packs 550 Horsepower V8

      Exclusive V8 engine to Cadillac


    Cadillac is updating the CT6 for 2019 with revised styling including a grille inspired by the Escala concept, new headlights, and reshaped trunk lid. The interior boasts an updated infotainment system with a 10-inch 1080P touchscreen and rotary dial controller with physical shortcut buttons to most used functions. But the big news is under the hood.

    Cadillac is introducing an all-new twin-turbo 4.2L V8 engine with double overhead cams. Making its debut in the all new CT6 V-Sport, the V8 produces 550 horsepower and 627 pound-feet of torque. Cadillac says this engine is a clean-sheet design, as evidence by the “hot-V” configuration -  the turbochargers sit in between the cylinder banks to reduce turbo-lag and making the engine more compact. The V8 sends its power through a new 10-speed automatic to all four wheels. The engine will be hand-built at GM's Bowling Green, Kentucky's Performance Build Center.

    In 2019, a lower output version of the twin-turbo V8 will become an option on the CT6, producing 500 horsepower. The only differences between the high and low-output versions are a different ECU tune and more restrictive exhaust.

    Other performance goodies for the CT6 V-Sport include revised settings for the steering and Magnetic Ride Control system; limited slip differential, larger brakes, active exhaust system, summer-only performance tires, and a Track Mode setting. Exterior changes include a blacked-out grille, 20-inch wheels, "high-lumen" headlights, and integrated spoiler.

    The introduction of the CT6 V-Sport also marks a change in how Cadillac organizes their trim lineup. It will become forked with Luxury trim on one side and V-Sport on the other side.

    No word on when the 2019 Cadillac CT6 will arrive at dealers.

    Source: Cadillac
    Press Release is on Page 2


    Cadillac Introduces First-Ever CT6 V-Sport

    • New high-performance V-Performance model
    • V-Sport model boasts all-new Cadillac 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8
    • First in a series of new Cadillac performance vehicles

    Cadillac today unveiled the CT6 V-Sport, the first-ever V-Performance model of its top-of-range sedan. The introduction of the high-performance variant coincides with a makeover of the entire CT6 lineup that incorporates the newest iteration of Cadillac’s design language featured on the Escala Concept. The Cadillac V-Sport portfolio currently includes the CTS V-Sport and the XTS V-Sport.

    “Cadillac V-Sport is the embodiment of our passion to deliver an exhilarating driving experience without compromises,” said Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen. “The all-new CT6 V-Sport provides the perfect balance of performance and luxurious refinement.”

    The CT6 V-Sport boasts an all-new Cadillac 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 Cadillac -estimated at 550 horsepower (410 kW) and stunning 627 lb-ft of torque (850 Nm) that elevates the CT6’s performance to a new plateau and offers drivers an unparalleled experience behind the wheel. The engine is a clean-sheet design and introduces unique design elements developed to balance performance and efficiency with compact, mass-efficient packaging.

    At the center of the Cadillac Twin Turbo V8 is a “hot V” configuration that transposes the conventional layout of the cylinder heads’ intake and exhaust systems to mount the turbochargers at the top of the engine — in the valley between the heads — to virtually eliminate turbo lag and reduce the engine’s overall packaging size.

    “With the introduction of the all-new CT6 V-Sport, Cadillac begins a new chapter in its performance legacy with the introduction of the brand’s first-ever twin-turbo V-8 engine,” added de Nysschen. “It is the centerpiece of the new CT6 V-Sport, an engaging sport sedan infused with DNA of Cadillac’s world-renowned and championship-winning motorsports program.”

    The new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8 is matched with a 10-speed automatic transmission. Its broad, 7.39 overall gear ratio spread enhances off-the-line performance and contributes to reduced engine speed on the highway for refinement and efficiency. Narrow steps between the gear ratios also help the engine maintain the optimal speed for maximum power at almost all vehicle speeds.

    OPTIMIZED FOR PERFORMANCE

    The first-ever Cadillac CT6 V-Sport includes a bold, dark front with a large V-inspired mesh grille and new horizontal LED headlamps with strong vertical signatures, making it distinctly Cadillac. Lower aero components and Gloss Black side window surround trim provide the performance sport sedan’s chiseled exterior with a dark and distinguished look. New, unique 20-inch V-Sport wheels with summer-only tires[1], lower aero components and spoiler further express the sedan’s performance capabilities.

    • New, summer-only performance tires developed exclusively for Cadillac V-Sport are tuned to deliver crisp response and track capable performance while retaining isolation and comfort.
    • Mechanical limited-slip rear differential increases traction at the limit and provides more predictable performance during spirited and track driving.
    • V-Sport specific suspension tuning for improved roll control, cornering capability and steering response.
    • A new 19-inch Brembo brake system developed specifically for the CT6 high-performance application.
      • Brembo monoblock, fixed-opposed, four-piston
      • Equipped with performance linings and air deflectors that direct air to cool the brakes during sporty, aggressive driving
    • Modified steering and Magnetic Ride Control damper calibrations
    • Exhaust system with active valves offering reduced back pressure and more sound character
      • Tuned for V-Sport model, with a performance oriented exhaust note

    TRACK MODE, OPTIMIZED FOR PERFORMANCE

    • Maximized Magnetic Ride Control damper control
    • Re-mapped steering efforts for sportier, dynamic feedback
    • Track-tuned Active Rear Steer
    • Revised AWD torque split
    • Unique, track-focused stability controls
    • Track focused active exhaust valve calibration

     “The CT6 V-Sport was developed for driving enthusiasts who want the best of both worlds: a high-performance sports sedan and a luxury car with all the comforts and technology that come with it,” said Lyndon Lie, CT6 chief engineer. “With its lightweight architecture, an all-new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8 coupled with the tightened suspension and revised AWD torque split, we’ve enhanced the CT6 to be well-balanced and capable of all conditions.”

    REFRESHED CT6 LINEUP

    CT6 retains a dominant vertical light signature and adds horizontal elements to give the front end a more aggressive appearance. That inspiration continues to the back with the new rear lighting graphic, which is most visible at night.

    "The V-Sport gave us the opportunity to accentuate the aggressive dynamics of the architecture," said Andrew Smith, executive director of Cadillac Design. "The CT6 is the first entry that incorporates cues for the new Sport and V-Sport model strategy, which allowed us to make the car look as powerful as it drives."

    In addition to the introduction of the CT6 V-Sport, the 2019 CT6 lineup incorporates Cadillac’s new “Y” trim strategy for its models — each model will have Luxury and Sport trims with distinct personas and features. On non-V-Sport CT6 models, new horizontal high-lumen headlights and a revised taillight design refresh Cadillac’s signature lighting, inspired by the Escala Concept.

    INTUITIVE TECHNOLOGIES 

    Led by the latest Cadillac user experience — the brand’s most advanced infotainment interface — the CT6 offers a connected environment.

    The Cadillac user experience is a dynamic platform that offers a smartphone-like experience with an intuitive interface, faster response and improved voice recognition from previous generations. The system can be updated over time to meet a customer’s evolving connectivity needs. It leverages the cloud and available embedded 4G LTE connection to enable personalization, available connected navigation and news, marketplace and entertainment applications via the app store and a new rotary controller that offers users alternative ways to interact with the system.

    The new controller includes volume and seek forward/back controls for the audio system; shortcut buttons for fast access to the most frequently used apps such as Audio, Phone, Navigation (if available) and Home; and a large center dial to operate primary features of the most frequently used apps, scroll menus and lists and select other apps to be displayed.

    Additional CT6 technologies include:

    • Super Cruise, the first truly hands-free driver assistance feature for the freeway, is available (non- V-Sport only)[ii].
    • The 10-inch diagonal Cadillac user experience interface screen has 1080p HD resolution.
    • Next-generation, 5-watt wireless charging with larger charge area for better phone compatibility[iii].
    • Available Cloud-connected navigation provides real-time traffic and routing.
    • Rear-seat Infotainment has media input through USB, HDMI or Wi-Fi connection to a phone.
    • The second-generation Rear Camera Mirror has a new frameless design and zoom and tilt features.
    • The full suite of available active safety features includes Forward Collision Alert, Lane Change Alert with Side Blind Zone Alert, Lane Keep Assist with Lane Departure Warning, Rear Cross Traffic Alert, Forward/Reverse Automatic Braking, and Safety Alert Seat
    • Available Surround Vision provides a 360-degree camera view around the vehicle, displayed on the Cadillac user experience screen, helping the driver avoid nearby objects during low-speed maneuvering
    • Available industry-first Surround Vision Recorder video recording system can record front and rear views while driving, and 360 degrees of recording if the vehicle’s security system is activated.
    • Night Vision helps identify people and large animals via heat signatures on a display in the driver information center.
    • Available Automatic Parking Assist with Braking steers the vehicle and applies the brakes at idle speed to help park in parallel or perpendicular spaces while the driver follows text commands, selects gear, and overrides braking and acceleration as needed.
    • Available Front Pedestrian Braking provides pedestrian detection indications, alerts and automatic braking to help avoid collisions or reduce the harm caused by one.
    • New available Rear Pedestrian Detection alerts the driver, when in Reverse, of an imminent collision with a pedestrian by providing visual notification on rear view camera display.

    Safety or driver assistance features are no substitute for the driver's responsibility to operate the vehicle in a safe manner.  The driver should remain attentive to traffic, surroundings and road conditions at all times.  Visibility, weather, and road conditions may affect feature performance. Read the vehicle's owner's manual for more important feature limitations and information.

    Cadillac Introduces First-Ever Twin-Turbo V-8 Engine

    • Sophisticated, all-new 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 is at the heart of new CT6 V-Sport’s exemplary performance

    Cadillac begins a new chapter in its high-performance legacy with today’s introduction of the brand’s first-ever twin-turbo V-8 engine. It is the centerpiece of the new CT6 V-Sport, an engaging sports sedan infused with DNA of Cadillac’s world-renowned motorsports program.

    Developed as a small-displacement V-8 in the classic vein and offering exceptional power density of 131 hp (98 kW) per liter, this new Cadillac-exclusive 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 — GM estimated at 550 horsepower (410 kW) and 627 lb-ft of torque (850 Nm) — elevates the CT6’s performance to a new plateau and offers drivers an unparalleled experience behind the wheel.  An optional 500-horsepower version will also be available.

    “Cadillac’s performance technology reaches new heights with the new and exclusive 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8,” said Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen. “The engineering prowess embodies the very spirt of Cadillac performance on and off the racetrack.”

    The new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8 is a clean-sheet design that also introduces unique design elements developed to balance performance and efficiency with compact, mass-efficient packaging.

    “Designing an all-new engine was the best way to achieve the performance goals for the CT6 V-Sport,” said Jordan Lee, 4.2L TT V-8 chief engineer. “It builds on Cadillac’s well-established turbocharging know-how and forges new ground with innovative features that deliver exceptional performance and refinement.”

    At the center of the 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 is a “hot V” configuration that transposes the conventional layout of the cylinder heads’ intake and exhaust systems to mount the turbochargers at the top of the engine — in the valley between the heads — to virtually eliminate turbo lag and reduce the engine’s overall packaging size.

    In a conventional turbocharged engine, the cylinder heads receive the pressurized air charge through ports at the top of the engine and the exhaust exits through ports on the lower outside of the heads into manifolds connected to the turbochargers.

    With Cadillac’s innovative hot V design, the intake-charged air enters through the lower outside of the heads and exits through the top inside — where the turbochargers are integrated with the exhaust manifolds — for quick spool-up that translates into more immediate power delivery. The design also allows closer mounting of the catalytic converters, for efficient packaging.

    Additional engine highlights:

    • Twin-scroll turbochargers
    • Electronic wastegate control
    • Twin water-to-air charge coolers
    • Twin throttle bodies
    • Direct injection
    • Dual-independent camshaft phasing
    • Active Fuel Management (cylinder deactivation)
    • Variable-pressure oiling system
    • Stop/start technology

    Each engine will be hand-built at the Performance Build Center in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

    SMALL DISPLACEMENT, LARGE EFFECT

    The new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8’s foundation is an all-new, durable and lightweight aluminum cylinder block that houses an equally robust, lightweight rotating assembly composed of a forged steel crankshaft, forged steel connecting rods and high-strength aluminum pistons.

    The crankshaft’s 90.2mm (3.55 inch) stroke complements the cylinder bores’ 86mm (3.39 inch) diameter to give the engine its 4.2L (255 cubic-inch) displacement.

    Its comparatively small bore dimension enables the reduction in the size and weight of the pistons, optimizing the engine’s geometry to match the fast-rev capability permitted by the engine’s low-inertia, twin-scroll turbochargers. The result is exceptional responsiveness and immediacy of power across the rpm band.  

    The turbochargers produce up to 20 pounds of boost (1.38 bar) and are matched with electronic wastegate control for more precise boost management and more responsive torque production. In fact, 90 percent of the engine’s peak torque is available at only 2000 rpm, and it is carried through 5200 rpm for a confident, virtually bottomless power reserve.

    TWIN-SCROLL TURBOCHARGERS

    The turbos’ twin-scroll design broadens their performance capability, offering quicker response and greater efficiency. Rather than a single spiral chamber (scroll) feeding exhaust gas from the exhaust manifold to drive the turbine on each turbocharger, the twin-scroll design has a divided housing with two exhaust gas inlets and two nozzles to drive the turbine. Generally, one of the nozzles contributes to quicker response and boost production, while the other contributes to overall peak performance.

    Each of the engine’s integrated exhaust manifolds/turbocharger housings splits the exhaust channels from the cylinder head so the exhaust flows through separate scrolls based on the engine’s exhaust pulses. When matched with precise valve timing, that separation leverages exhaust-scavenging techniques to optimize gas flow, improves turbine efficiency and reduces turbo lag.

    The electronically controlled wastegates — one per turbocharger — are used for more precise management of the engine’s boost pressure and subsequent torque response for smoother, more consistent performance. They are independently controlled on each cylinder bank to balance the turbo compressors’ output, for greater boost pressure response.

    WATER-TO-AIR CHARGE COOLING AND DUAL THROTTLE BODIES

    An efficient water-to-air charge-cooling system contributes to the engine’s performance, enhancing the turbochargers’ effectiveness. Similar in concept to an engine’s radiator, the system’s intercoolers cool the boosted air charge before it enters the cylinders. Cooler air is denser, which means there is more oxygen in a given volume, resulting in optimal combustion and more power.

    The system features a pair of heat exchangers located above the valley-mounted exhaust manifold/turbocharger housings. The turbos pump pressurized air directly through the heat exchangers and into the cylinder heads. The heat exchangers are cooled by their own coolant circuit.

    The intercoolers lower the air charge temperature by more than 130 degrees F (74 C), packing the combustion chambers with cooler, denser air. Also, the system achieves more than 80 percent cooling efficiency with only about 1 psi (7 kPa) flow restriction at peak power, which contributes to fast torque production.

    Before entering the combustion chambers, the cooled air charge flows through a pair of throttle bodies, one for each engine bank. Each electronically controlled throttle body has a 59mm diameter opening.

    NEW 10-SPEED TRANSMISSION

    The new Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8 is matched with a 10-speed automatic transmission. Its wide, 7.39 overall gear ratio spread enhances off-the-line performance and contributes to reduced engine speed on the highway, which enhances refinement and efficiency. Smaller steps between the gears also help the engine maintain the optimal speed for maximum power at almost all vehicle speeds.

    ADDITIONAL TECHNOLOGIES

    Direct fuel injection is used to optimize efficiency and performance. With direct injection, a higher compression ratio — 9.8:1 — is possible because of a cooling effect as the injected fuel vaporizes in the combustion chamber, reducing the charge temperature to lessen the likelihood of spark knock. A pair of engine-mounted, camshaft-driven high-pressure fuel pumps supplies fuel to the specialized injectors at 5,075 psi (350 bar), with each pump supplying fuel to one bank of the engine.

    Active Fuel Management (AFM), also known as cylinder deactivation, imperceptibly shuts down half of the engine’s cylinders in certain light-load driving conditions to enhance fuel economy. Unique deactivating rocker arms are used for each of the four valves of the cylinder being deactivated.

    Dual overhead camshafts and a virtually silent chain-driven valvetrain contribute to the smoothness and the high output of the Cadillac Twin Turbo V-8, while dual independent continuously variable valve timing helps deliver optimal performance and efficiency. The dual independent system, which allows the intake and exhaust valves to be phased at different rates, promotes linear delivery of torque with near-peak levels over a broad rpm range, and high specific output (horsepower per liter of displacement) without sacrificing overall engine response or drivability.

    Oil jets located in the block are employed for performance and temperature control. Four jet assemblies in the engine drench the underside of the pistons and the surrounding cylinder walls with an extra layer of cooling, friction-reducing oil. The jets reduce piston temperature, allowing the engine to produce more power without reducing long-term durability.

    Variable-pressure oiling system. A variable-displacement vane oil pump enhances efficiency by optimizing oil pressure as a function of engine speed. With it, the oil supply is matched to the engine load rather than the linear operation of a conventional, fixed-flow oil pump.  The engine uses 10 quarts of General Motors’ dexos2 0W40 motor oil.

    Stop/start technology shuts down the engine when the vehicle stops momentarily, such as at stoplights. The engine automatically restarts when the driver takes their foot off the brake. An auxiliary battery powers electric accessories such as the climate system, power windows and radio during engine restarts.

    SPECIFICATIONS

    ENGINE

    Type:

    4.2L twin-turbocharged DOHC V-8 with Active Fuel Management, direct injection and stop/start

    Bore and stroke       (in / mm):

    3.39 x 3.55 / 86 x 90.2

    Block configuration:

    90-degree V-8 with five cross-bolted nodular iron main bearing caps; with provisions for jet-spray oil cooling

    Block material:

    A319 sand-cast aluminum with pressed-in iron liners

    Crankshaft:

    Forged steel

    Pistons:

    High-strength hypereutectic aluminum with friction-reducing polymer skirt coating

    Connecting rods:

    Forged steel with floating wrist pins

    Cylinder heads:

    Cast aluminum “hot V”-type with 36mm intake valves and 29mm sodium-filled exhaust valves

    Compression ratio:

    9.8:1

    Valvetrain:

    Dual overhead camshafts; four valves per cylinder with and dual independent valve timing

    Firing order:

    1-5-4-3-6-8-7-2 (1-4-6-7 with Active Fuel Management engaged)

    Ignition system:

    Coil-on-plug

    Fuel delivery:

    Direct injection with dual electronically controlled 59mm throttle bodies

    Turbocharging system:

    Two low-inertia twin-scroll turbochargers with electronically controlled wastegates and water-to-air intercooling

    Max boost:

    20 psi (1.38 bar / 138 kPa)

    Horsepower             (hp / kW @ rpm):

    550 / 410 @ 5700 (CT6 V-Sport) – est.

    500 / 373 @ 5000-5200 (CT6) – est.

    Torque
    (lb.-ft. / Nm):

    627 / 850 @ 3200-4000 (CT6 V-Sport) – est.

    553 / 750 @ 2600-4600 (CT6) – est.

     

    TRANSMISSION

    Type:

    Hydra-Matic 10L90 ten-speed electronically controlled automatic

    Gear ratios (:1)

    4.696 – 1st

    2.985 – 2nd

    2.146 – 3rd

    1.769 – 4th

    1.520 – 5th

    1.275 – 6th

    1.000 – 7th

    0.854 – 8th

    0.689 – 9th

    0.636 – 10th

    4.866 – Reverse

    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    12 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    So Audi has the engine longitudinally mounted ahead of the front axle... odd.    Now that is on the A4 and larger sedan/coupe models, what about the smaller models like the A1 and A3--aren't those transverse FWD/AWD like VWs? 

    The Chrysler LH cars are the same way. The front axle cuts through the front of the transmission and the entirety of the engine sits ahead of the front axle line.  

    2017-Audi-A8-Engine.jpg

    Audi A8 V8 and Transmission

    The GM front wheel drive - longitudinally mounted setup is to my knowledge, unique.  In the Audis and LH cars, the transmission sits directly behind the engine.  In the GM setup, the transmission is mounted alongside the engine and the engine connects to the transmission via a reinforced nylon chain.

    th.jpg

    Toronado transmission

      This allows the GM setup to be significantly more compact, and as such the engine/transmission combination are balanced nearly perfectly over the centerline of the front axle.

    1968-Fouranado-Oldsmobile-442-With-A-Toronado-Drivetrain-02.jpg

    1968 Toronado from below

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    First and foremost.. I told Y'all this was coming. I was told the engine was a 4.5L but this is even better considering the HP/L ratio. This engine is in no way the one that is going in the upcoming Vette from what I also hear. Second.. This car will likely be my trade to the CTS-V I currently know and love. 550HP/627ft-lb of torque.. in AWD and SuperCruise.. in a larger, lighter body is right what I want going forward into my 47th year. Lack of a V8 has been my hold back all along with the CT6.. getting 2 variation sis sweet.. but the top engine will be my choice. Interesting enough.. I am surprised that the 500HP version isn't the VSport and the 550HP version a VSeries. Perhaps there is something else coming.. altho I believe a higher HP version of the engine tech will be in the CT8 (Escala) which was given the green light for 2020-1. 

    To the possibilities of performance.. here we go.. 

    Quote

    from R&T, the new M5 ..  600 hp and 553 lb-ft of torque. That motor combined with the M5's new all-wheel drive system and automatic gearbox results in silly fast acceleration. Sixty mph comes up in 3.2 seconds and 124 mph arrives in 11.1. Top speed, when equipped with the optional M Driver's Package, is 189 mph. Weighs in at 4255lbs 

    A larger CT6 3.0L Platinum comes in at 4,385 lbs

    One has to wonder if they were able to keep weight in check.. and also.. what does this mean.. either way in terms of acceleration considering the CT6 VSport with have 50 less HP (which I bet will change + by 2019) , but 74 more ft-lb in torque. I think the CT6 VSport may just pull similar acceleration numbers depending on mode and the gearing of the new 10 speed.

     

    Also about the FWD vs RWD.. back in 2009 over at GMI I wrote this about the then.. upcoming XTS and revised SRX:
     

    Quote

     

    An issue that I see with people doubting Cadillac's full return is that they seem to rest those laurels on the possibility of them having a front wheel drive based platform for their soon to arrive flagship. 

    Might I remind people within that train of thought that if this flagship is, from what I've read, Awd, larger, wider, more luxurious than the German competitors such as the A8, 750i and S550, with similar sport aspirations, quality and reliability in check, and their current detail in attractive styling, Cadillac will be quite capable of competing with a those aforementioned Germans.

    From sightings of magazine reviews of the new SRX, and my own test drive of the vehicle after comparing it to both the Audi Q5 and BMW X5 I see no viable reason why, in terms of handling and feel, should the AWD inclusion be overlooked if it is used in lieu of the RWD standard. Truth is the only think I noticed different in driving the SRX vs the X5 was the difference in obtainable power in lower bands. Both having almost identical power enabled me to see not much of a determinable difference in overall performance. Could Cadillac be on to something using a similar config. for the XTS, hopefully with more powerful engines of course? 

    Platforms. Trouble with that point of view is that 95% of the car buyers don't know a thing about platforms. I'm a "car guy" and with the exception of GM and some BMWs I have almost no clue what the other makers are using under which vehicle. What matters to me is ultimately performance, prestige, and comfort in a vehicle such as this. 

     

     

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    1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    First and foremost.. I told Y'all this was coming. I was told the engine was a 4.5L but this is even better considering the HP/L ratio. This engine is in no way the one that is going in the upcoming Vette from what I also hear. Second.. This car will likely be my trade to the CTS-V I currently know and love. 550HP/627ft-lb of torque.. in AWD and SuperCruise.. in a larger, lighter body is right what I want going forward into my 47th year. Lack of a V8 has been my hold back all along with the CT6.. getting 2 variation sis sweet.. but the top engine will be my choice. Interesting enough.. I am surprised that the 500HP version isn't the VSport and the 550HP version a VSeries. Perhaps there is something else coming.. altho I believe a higher HP version of the engine tech will be in the CT8 (Escala) which was given the green light for 2020-1. 

    To the possibilities of performance.. here we go.. 

    A larger CT6 3.0L Platinum comes in at 4,385 lbs

    One has to wonder if they were able to keep weight in check.. and also.. what does this mean.. either way in terms of acceleration considering the CT6 VSport with have 50 less HP (which I bet will change + by 2019) , but 74 more ft-lb in torque. I think the CT6 VSport may just pull similar acceleration numbers depending on mode and the gearing of the new 10 speed.

     

    Also about the FWD vs RWD.. back in 2009 over at GMI I wrote this about the then.. upcoming XTS and revised SRX:
     

     

    If you get that, I'll be making a trip up to visit you and take it out for an extended drive and review. Not joking. 

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    4 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    To the possibilities of performance.. here we go.. 

    A larger CT6 3.0L Platinum comes in at 4,385 lbs

    One has to wonder if they were able to keep weight in check.. and also.. what does this mean.. either way in terms of acceleration considering the CT6 VSport with have 50 less HP (which I bet will change + by 2019) , but 74 more ft-lb in torque. I think the CT6 VSport may just pull similar acceleration numbers depending on mode and the gearing of the new 10 speed.


     

     

    Car and Driver clocked the M5 at 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and 10.9 seconds in the quarter mile.  The CTS-V was 0-60 in 3.8 seconds with a 12.0 quarter mile in the same test.  The M5 is 4288 lbs.  I am sure a CT6 V8 will be in the 4500 lb range.  Interestingly enough, I read this new 4.2 liter V8 takes up less space and weighs less than the 6.2L supercharged V8.  So there goes the pushrod fanboy argument of the LT5 takes up less space and weighs less than a DOHC V8.

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    13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

     Interestingly enough, I read this new 4.2 liter V8 takes up less space and weighs less than the 6.2L supercharged V8.  So there goes the pushrod fanboy argument of the LT5 takes up less space and weighs less than a DOHC V8.

    Compared to ALL Traditional TT V8 motors, the PUSHROD is Smaller packaged, weighs less and takes up less Space.

    Cadillac took a totally different approach and put both Turbo's in the Valley of the V so rather than be on the outside of the motor, it is in the center. Electronic Turbo's do not need the pulley to drive them and can be packaged for a tight design something that another member had brought up long ago in the original start of debate about Pushrod versus DOHC motors. Yet NO ONE not even MB has packaged them this way to be tightly integrated.

    This is truly a change in thinking to package and drop the added weight of the plumbing, belts, etc. Truly a more efficient design now that materials and computer programming have dealt with the Thermal issues.

    Will all be nothing once AWD EV with proper battery packs takes over.

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    15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Car and Driver clocked the M5 at 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and 10.9 seconds in the quarter mile.  The CTS-V was 0-60 in 3.8 seconds with a 12.0 quarter mile in the same test.  The M5 is 4288 lbs.  I am sure a CT6 V8 will be in the 4500 lb range.  Interestingly enough, I read this new 4.2 liter V8 takes up less space and weighs less than the 6.2L supercharged V8.  So there goes the pushrod fanboy argument of the LT5 takes up less space and weighs less than a DOHC V8.

    I've seen Vseries numbers lower than that at other publications and so have U.  But cherry picking to fit your hate seems to be your natural trait. Either way.. AWD is the reason for the advantage that the M5 has in out accelerating the V. The CT6 addresses this.. I can attest that launching my 640hp beast on the fly is a chore unless launch control is perfectly engaged. Furthermore I will tell U that U are crazy if U think the CTS-V is gonna hit the market without AWD and a nice Milford beat down of the M5 and E63Amg before hitting the market. I wouldn't be surprised if the CT6 out accelerates both the new M5 and CTS-V with this system coupled with the 10speed

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    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    M5 is AWD, CTS-V is not. It's purely a traction issue.

    Or a bad engineering issue.  Why put power in a car you can’t use, and the E63 and RS6/RS7 were all wheel drive when the current CTS came out.  And Cadillac could add AWD anytime they want, but are too cheap to do so.

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    You're just a troll.  The German brands did a lot of hand wringing over adding AWD and a lot of purists bashed them for it. 

    Where is BMW's or Mercedes' four wheel steering? I guess they're just too cheap to do it.

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    3 hours ago, dfelt said:

     

    Cadillac took a totally different approach and put both Turbo's in the Valley of the V so rather than be on the outside of the motor, it is in the center. Electronic Turbo's do not need the pulley to drive them and can be packaged for a tight design something that another member had brought up long ago in the original start of debate about Pushrod versus DOHC motors. Yet NO ONE not even MB has packaged them this way to be tightly integrated.

    Every Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche V8 has the turbos inside the hot V.  They all do the same thing.  No road car has an E turbo, because no one is running a 48 volt system to power it but they are coming.  Formula 1 uses them, the Mercedes-AMG Project One has it since it is a F1 engine, that will probably be the first road use.

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    36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Or a bad engineering issue.  Why put power in a car you can’t use, and the E63 and RS6/RS7 were all wheel drive when the current CTS came out.  And Cadillac could add AWD anytime they want, but are too cheap to do so.

    Coupla things with that.. the current CTS-V has power that can be used.. it just takes proper launching tactics.. once in flight.. the power remains from the endless torque and hp avail. The Audis U mentioned have always been AWD.. for the sake of VW dwindling platforms. The E63AMG just got AWD a few years ago.. The GM AWD system that came out with the CT6 debuted in 2015 with capabilities of handling up to.. if I remember..  950ft-lbs of torque. 

    10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Every Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche V8 has the turbos inside the hot V.  They all do the same thing.  No road car has an E turbo, because no one is running a 48 volt system to power it but they are coming.  Formula 1 uses them, the Mercedes-AMG Project One has it since it is a F1 engine, that will probably be the first road use.

    answer Drew's fuckin questions!!!

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Where is Mercedes' super cruise? What's the matter? Are they too cheap?

    Where is their plug-in with 40 miles ev range? Still too cheap?

    Why do Mercede's power trains consistently lag Cadillac's in output for a given configuration? Why does it take a V8 from Benz to exceed a Turbo 6 from Cadillac? Why can't Benz build a Turbo 6 to beat Cadillac without throwing electric motors on it to help out? Too cheap?

    Why can't Benz build a suspension that has faster reaction time than Cadillac? I guess they're just too cheap

     

     

     

    Or you're just a troll.

     

    Assuming MB/AMG's engines make what they claim, why do they need to make more when they already leave their Cadillac competition in the dust?? 

    Why can't Cadillac make an interior even half as nice an MB?

    Why are their backseats so small?

    Why do their dealers think it's still the 80's?

     

     

    And to anyone who thinks this is going to outperform the new M5......just lol. That car is a monster. 

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     @smk4565  a troll who can't even get basic facts right even when he has been reminded of them many many many multiple times.

    More than 12 volt power? Welcome to a 2008 Malibu Hybrid. 48 volts is not some magic number... The Prius uses more than 48 volts as does...the Volt.  OMG wHY iS mERcedES so F@r bEhinD gm!!!n??!?

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    4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    You're just a troll.  The German brands did a lot of hand wringing over adding AWD and a lot of purists bashed them for it. 

    Where is BMW's or Mercedes' four wheel steering? I guess they're just too cheap to do it.

    Porsche, BMW, Audi and Mercedes all make a car with 4 wheel steering.   And I don't know how much benefit it really has, because the really fast track cars tend not to use it, although the GT R does.  And Volvo, Tesla, Mercedes, Audi, etc all have a semi-autonomous drive system already.

    I think what Cadillac is doing with the CT6 V-sport is great, it gets them in the game, but they haven't done anything revolutionary here, all the other guys already have a car like this.

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    3 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

     

    Assuming MB/AMG's engines make what they claim, why do they need to make more when they already leave their Cadillac competition in the dust?? 

    Why can't Cadillac make an interior even half as nice an MB?

    Why are their backseats so small?

    Why do their dealers think it's still the 80's?

     

     

    And to anyone who thinks this is going to outperform the new M5......just lol. That car is a monster. 

    Excellent post, 1,000 upvotes!

    The new M5 is a legit monster, to beat the E63 in a straight line is quite the feat, although both cars have the same 0-150 mph time.  Luckily Mercedes has the AMG GT sedan, which should go faster than an E63, especially when the GT 73 comes.

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    Correct. If this was a CT6-

    8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Porsche, BMW, Audi and Mercedes all make a car with 4 wheel steering.   And I don't know how much benefit it really has, because the really fast track cars tend not to use it, although the GT R does.  And Volvo, Tesla, Mercedes, Audi, etc all have a semi-autonomous drive system already.

    I think what Cadillac is doing with the CT6 V-sport is great, it gets them in the game, but they haven't done anything revolutionary here, all the other guys already have a car like this.

    Cadillac super cruise is better than Benz.

    Benz only put 4 wheel steering on the GT AMG, they did it 2 years behind Cadillac, and they didn't put it on the E class because they're cheap. 4 wheel steering is more important on a big sedan than a GT size car.

    Oh sure Benz "is coming out" with a 48 volts Eassist. You can go buy a 48+ volt Cadillac today. 

     

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    2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

     @smk4565  a troll who can't even get basic facts right even when he has been reminded of them many many many multiple times.

    More than 12 volt power? Welcome to a 2008 Malibu Hybrid. 48 volts is not some magic number... The Prius uses more than 48 volts as does...the Volt.  OMG wHY iS mERcedES so F@r bEhinD gm!!!n??!?

    None of those run a turbo off electric, no car on sale right now does.  That is my point with the E-turbo, you need more volts to run it than what current cars have, and you can't buy an E-turbo car today because of that.  Unless you can afford to buy a Formula 1 car.

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    5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Where is Mercedes' super cruise? What's the matter? Are they too cheap?

    Where is their plug-in with 40 miles ev range? Still too cheap?

    The S-class had radar cruise control like 20 years ago, and the current car can do a lot of semi autonomous driving.  And Mercedes isn't cheap, they are building an all new factory for the next S-class which I am sure will continue to be the technological trailblazer it has always been.

    Screw 40 miles, 300 miles is better:

    Mercedes-EQ-C-EV-SUV-Spy.jpg

    And we are getting close, they have 3 battery factories already under construction so they don't have to buy batteries off someone else and face those Tesla-like supply chain problems. 

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    Yeah...well...

    My car company is known for PROSPERITY,  FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY!!!

    Related image

     

    Dont forget Rock-N-Roll!!!

    Image result for buddy holly cadillac

     

    YOUR car company is know for HOMICIDE, GENOCIDE and...and...SUICIDE...

    Image result for hitler mercedes

     

    :P

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    There was a good article on CNBC about Cadillac launching 10 new models in the coming years, and one analyst made a good point in that Cadillac shouldn't be trying to outdo Mercedes, but they need to bet targeting younger buyers and minorities.  And there is something to be said of that, Cadillac needs products that appeal to people under 40, something for "active lifestyle" people, etc.  

    I have thought a lot that Cadillac needs to be going after people currently driving a Chevy, Chrysler, GMC, Buick, Acura, and Infiniti, VW, Mazda, etc.  Trying to conquest the Germans is a tough task, most Lincoln and Lexus sedan buyers or at an age where they are on their last car, so no sense to target them.

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    Cadillac ISN'T trying to outdo MB, and they absolutely HAVE targeted younger buyers (obviously the analyst crossed-up those 2 & how they are accomplished). Also unfortunately glossed over by the anaylist is the fact that MB & Cadillac are within a few years of average buyer age. Sounds like a poorly researched article.

    The other fallacy is that Cadillac (or any other brand) does not have to pull buyers away from other brands, only to capture those moving into the luxury segment from outside it. Since most luxury brands are above the ABA, that's where the younger buyers are coming from- its a lateral move from other luxury brands.

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    9 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

     

    Assuming MB/AMG's engines make what they claim, why do they need to make more when they already leave their Cadillac competition in the dust?? 

    Why can't Cadillac make an interior even half as nice an MB?

    Why are their backseats so small?

    Why do their dealers think it's still the 80's?

     

     

    And to anyone who thinks this is going to outperform the new M5......just lol. That car is a monster. 

     

    Who gives a damn if they lie about their HP rating... I've gone up against last gen E63 and M5/6 with my last gen Vs and WON.. I've gone up against current M5 (not the AWD one) and E63AMG and WON.. Maybe I just learned to launch.. and realized that putting 38lbs of air in my tires was ridiculous.. but I did. 

    Cadillac interiors are on par with Benz, except in the S-Class vs CT6.. which beats it slightly.. by maybe 10%, not 50.. but alas.. one looks at the price difference and see's the reason. OH!!! Cadillac should sell for less.. but spend more on its interior??? Makes sense

    Oh.. and EFF the backseat in any car.. eff I care about people riding in the back.. but in this case.. the CT6 has pretty generous seat space

    And I wasn't comparing the M5 to the CT6 VSport.. my point of bringing it up was the inclusion of AWD and the comparable (probable) similar weights. Not to mention the HP/Torque ratings.

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    8 hours ago, Suaviloquent said:

    I don't think the M5 and CT6 Vsport are really direct competitors. Yeah sure nuff both sedans, both sporty, both V8s... but they share not much else really.

     

    Other than a 9" length advantage of the CT6, they run the same dimensions, 5-series goes from 248-335HP (M5: 600), CT6 goes from 265-404HP (V-Sport: 550), start at same price tier, pushing performance & tech, luxury brands... my God, how could they be any LESS of competitors???

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    1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

     

    Who gives a damn if they lie about their HP rating... I've gone up against last gen E63 and M5/6 with my last gen Vs and WON.. I've gone up against current M5 (not the AWD one) and E63AMG and WON.. Maybe I just learned to launch.. and realized that putting 38lbs of air in my tires was ridiculous.. but I did. 

    Cadillac interiors are on par with Benz, except in the S-Class vs CT6.. which beats it slightly.. by maybe 10%, not 50.. but alas.. one looks at the price difference and see's the reason. OH!!! Cadillac should sell for less.. but spend more on its interior??? Makes sense

    Oh.. and EFF the backseat in any car.. eff I care about people riding in the back.. but in this case.. the CT6 has pretty generous seat space

    And I wasn't comparing the M5 to the CT6 VSport.. my point of bringing it up was the inclusion of AWD and the comparable (probable) similar weights. Not to mention the HP/Torque ratings.

    The last gen E63 switched to AWD with the mid-cycle refresh, it would be a current CTS-V.  2013 and older would spin tire and be slower off the line.

    Car and Driver said the CTS has a "grim interior" and said "Cadillac's interior designers apparently thought they were working on a Chevrolet."  ATS and CTS interiors are no where near Audi or Mercedes.

    AWD and 10 gears should make this CT6 launch quite fast though.  And I don't think Cadillac should sell for less, $130k is about where a CT6 V-sport should be priced.

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    35 minutes ago, balthazar said:

     

    Other than a 9" length advantage of the CT6, they run the same dimensions, 5-series goes from 248-335HP (M5: 600), CT6 goes from 265-404HP (V-Sport: 550), start at same price tier, pushing performance & tech, luxury brands... my God, how could they be any LESS of competitors???

    The 5-series still has the 550i V8, that has 450ish hp.  But if the CT6 competes with a 5-series, why is the CTS here?  Really the CTS should have the CT6 interior and engine trims, and cost $52k for the 4-banger go to $130k for V-series.   Or basically cut 10 inches in length off the CT6 and there is your new 5-series and E-class competitor.  Put the Escala above that.

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    'cut 10 inches off' - nonononoNO!
    Everyone wants Cadillac to 'stop trying to be a BMW'... then here it is: fuck matching exact dimensions. Cadillacs should be larger, this one is larger. Lock-stepping is why the German trio are so interchangeable. Cadillac should stand apart. The size is perfect for the segment.

    And Cadillac here is providing multiple options for someone considering a 5-series; a slightly smaller lighter CTS or a slightly larger CT6 (which is also a viable option to the 7 in many consumer's books).

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    Cadillac needs a good mid-size product though, if they take everything about CT6 and chop down a foot in length and make it CT5, they'd be close.   Using the engines, transmission, interior, super cruise, etc.

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    17 hours ago, balthazar said:

     

    Other than a 9" length advantage of the CT6, they run the same dimensions, 5-series goes from 248-335HP (M5: 600), CT6 goes from 265-404HP (V-Sport: 550), start at same price tier, pushing performance & tech, luxury brands... my God, how could they be any LESS of competitors???

     

    17 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    The CTS is more the 5-series competitor...about the same size. 

    I see both of U as correct.. but I also throw that same logic over at the 5 Series and 7 Series... They are even on the same platform.. as the CT6 and CT5 will most likely be soon. How much U wanna bet that the legroom between the CT5 and CT6 ends up similar as well.. with the exterior dimensions being the true differentiation? I can see the CT6 as a 6 Series type vehicle once 2020 hits.. and the intro of the Escala (CT8) which got the green-light

    CT3, ATS replacement with ATS-L dimensions.. CT5 current exterior dimensions of CTS but interior sized similar in the rear like the , CT6, and then CT8 in 2020

     

     

    17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The last gen E63 switched to AWD with the mid-cycle refresh, it would be a current CTS-V.  2013 and older would spin tire and be slower off the line.

    Car and Driver said the CTS has a "grim interior" and said "Cadillac's interior designers apparently thought they were working on a Chevrolet."  ATS and CTS interiors are no where near Audi or Mercedes.

    AWD and 10 gears should make this CT6 launch quite fast though.  And I don't think Cadillac should sell for less, $130k is about where a CT6 V-sport should be priced.

    ATS no.. CTS U are smokin the same crack they are. The ironic part about the Chevy comment is that in truth.. many of Benz's interiors are pretty much on par with the mainstream brand, I'd say on the same level as the LaX and Enclave if U really want to shore it up. U are truly a fanboi if U can't see that. The new E-Class' interior is nothing great at all.. 

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    63/64 are great track numbers- that's Wide Track Pontiac territory. WOuld like to see the width grow by 2 inches, tho 74 is in no way narrow.
    Escala would sit pretty at 77" wide, 215" long, 128" WB, 65/66 track.

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Cadillac needs a good mid-size product though, if they take everything about CT6 and chop down a foot in length and make it CT5, they'd be close.   Using the engines, transmission, interior, super cruise, etc.

    Who is to say that the CT5 is not being built on the same Platform already as the CT6. 

    Common sense is to use one universal platform for the car line. They do it in China already.

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    So does Cadillac need 3 sedans or 4?  We know they have CT5 in mid-size and something small in the works.   Then we have CT6 and Escala do they need 2 full size sedans when full size sedans are a tough sell?

    We also don't yet know how they will position them, CT5 could be mid-size car for C-class and 3-series money.  Johan said the small car will compete on price with an A3 or 1-series.  Where should they price these possible 4 sedans, also considering the track record of Cadillac sedan sales in price points over $60k.

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    34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    So does Cadillac need 3 sedans or 4?  We know they have CT5 in mid-size and something small in the works.   Then we have CT6 and Escala do they need 2 full size sedans when full size sedans are a tough sell?

    We also don't yet know how they will position them, CT5 could be mid-size car for C-class and 3-series money.  Johan said the small car will compete on price with an A3 or 1-series.  Where should they price these possible 4 sedans, also considering the track record of Cadillac sedan sales in price points over $60k.

    Just as MB depends on Europe eating up all the E-Class as Taxis and America to over pay on so called Luxury auto's, Cadillac has China and as such, China will be a bigger market as we all know than the US now. China is Key and if China can support 4 or 5 cars, then having them here is just a by product and bonus to us.

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    23 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Just as MB depends on Europe eating up all the E-Class as Taxis and America to over pay on so called Luxury auto's, Cadillac has China and as such, China will be a bigger market as we all know than the US now. China is Key and if China can support 4 or 5 cars, then having them here is just a by product and bonus to us.

    China is already a bigger market than the USA.  Audi, BMW and Mercedes all sell over 550,000 cars a year in China, they have a commanding lead over Cadillac who sold 175,000 cars in China in 2017.   Cadillac has about 350,000 global sales, they could support 4 sedans if there is a lot of commonality in them from a production standpoint.  

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    15 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    I always love how he pits Benz /Audi sales numbers in China against Cadillac's with no mention that Mercedes/Audi are also competing with Buick in China

     

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Last year Buick sold 421,000 Excelle's which is a rebadged Opel Astra, Previously the Excell was a rebadged Daewoo Nubira.  The Excelle is 1/3 of Buick's China market sales and starts at $17k.  The Envision ($34,000) is their #2 seller followed by the $23,000 Verano.   Oh yeah, Mercedes is worried about that that price point.

    Keep in mind a Mercedes CLA200 starts at $43,000 in Chinese pricing.   The E-class starts at $70,000 there and is their #2 seller after the C-class.  So I don't think Mercedes cares how many Vauxhall/Opel Astras are sold in Europe or China.

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    8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Last year Buick sold 421,000 Excelle's which is a rebadged Opel Astra, Previously the Excell was a rebadged Daewoo Nubira.  The Excelle is 1/3 of Buick's China market sales and starts at $17k.  The Envision ($34,000) is their #2 seller followed by the $23,000 Verano.   Oh yeah, Mercedes is worried about that that price point.

    Keep in mind a Mercedes CLA200 starts at $43,000 in Chinese pricing.   The E-class starts at $70,000 there and is their #2 seller after the C-class.  So I don't think Mercedes cares how many Vauxhall/Opel Astras are sold in Europe or China.

    No.. I think they care about PROFIT.. and Buick.. even in China, with Chinese rules.. is one of the most profitable makes on the road son son.. U like to go on sales numbers for these cars, but fail to see the big picture.

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    On 3/24/2018 at 9:56 AM, smk4565 said:

    Every Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche V8 has the turbos inside the hot V.  They all do the same thing.  No road car has an E turbo, because no one is running a 48 volt system to power it but they are coming.  Formula 1 uses them, the Mercedes-AMG Project One has it since it is a F1 engine, that will probably be the first road use.

    RAM 1500 has a 48 volt system. 

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    4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    RAM 1500 has a 48 volt system. 

    The 2019 does yes, I forgot about the release from Detroit and the Wrangler will get it too.  No E-turbo though, it is hooked up to the Pentastar V6.  

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    2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The 2019 does yes, I forgot about the release from Detroit and the Wrangler will get it too.  No E-turbo though, it is hooked up to the Pentastar V6.  

    They have it for the 5.7L also. 

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    On 3/26/2018 at 11:40 AM, smk4565 said:

    The 2019 does yes, I forgot about the release from Detroit and the Wrangler will get it too.  No E-turbo though, it is hooked up to the Pentastar V6.  

    So maybe we can get you to adjust your trolling.  Instead of going on and on about voltage, which every manufacturer is capable of, just talk about the turbo.   I'm fine giving MB that win of being first.  Cadillac was the first with night vision, air bags, electric starter, variable displacement, heads up display, engine self-preservation, twin-turbo/variable displacement/start-stop all in the same engine, they'll have a V8 that can run on as few as 2 cylinders before MB will, the list goes on.  Mercedes has plenty of firsts as well, but until you can give credit where it is due and appropriate, you are still simply a troll. 

    Mercedes' radar cruise is not Super Cruise. None of MB's vehicles are handsfree like Cadillac Super Cruise is. 

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    The E-class and S-class can do hands free but it makes you touch the wheel every 30 seconds which I think is more of the lawyers protecting themselves.  But then it isn’t really “hands free” as Cadillac is so that in that respect advantage Cadillac.  But Super Cruise can’t change lanes unassisted and Mercedes can change lanes without touching the wheel.  Both are level 2 systems.

    The Audi A8 is the only production car with a level 3 system, so it actually has the best one on the market but no on buys the A8, so how much do these things move the needle.

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    8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The E-class and S-class can do hands free but it makes you touch the wheel every 30 seconds which I think is more of the lawyers protecting themselves.  But then it isn’t really “hands free” as Cadillac is so that in that respect advantage Cadillac.  But Super Cruise can’t change lanes unassisted and Mercedes can change lanes without touching the wheel.  Both are level 2 systems.

    The Audi A8 is the only production car with a level 3 system, so it actually has the best one on the market but no on buys the A8, so how much do these things move the needle.

    Cars that no one buys don't move the needle?  So much for the AMG GT then. 

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