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    Rumorpile: Peeking Into Cadillac's Product Crystalball


    • More crossovers! Plus some key redesigns and name changes!

    We know Cadillac is planning a major product offensive beginning with the XT3 crossover next year, along with a few other products such as a seven-seat crossover and a competitor to the Audi A3 and Mercedes CLA. Automobile Magazine reports that Cadillac is planning eight all-new or redesigned models by 2022. They include,

    • XT3: (Compact crossover) in 2018
    • CT3: (ATS Replacement) in 2018
    • XT7: (Seven-seat crossover that is reported to be on Omega. Other reports put say it will use the platform underpinning the redesign Buick Enclave/Chevrolet Traverse) in 2019
    • CT5: (Replacement for the CTS) in 2019
    • XT1 or XT2 (Subcompact crossover) in 2020
    • XT5 Redesign (Possibly going on Omega) in 2021
    • CT1 or CT2 (A3 and CLA fighter) in 2021
    • CT8: (Flagship using Omega) in 2021

    All of these models are expected to use an evolutionary design theme from the Escala concept. It is still unknown whether or not the CT1/CT2 will use the Delta front-wheel drive platform or use Alpha.

    The brand is also planning investments totaling $800 million into their retail operations in the U.S.

    Source: Automobile
    Pic Credit: William Maley for Cheers and Gears

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    Could they just get this name changing done and over with PLEASE! I mean we go all the way back to the DeVille changes and what the letters meant then the alpha numeric mishmash get it together will ya Cadillac you guys have no continuity instead of beautiful chiseled Art's and Science auto's we're served up some wonderful auto's with place marker names for almost 20years now. Every 3 years new names that mean nothing, what a shame.

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    HATE the naming scheme.  I'll believe a CT8 when I see it.  I feel we keep getting news of an S-Class fighter and never quite happens.

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    balthazar

    Posted (edited)

    • XT1 or XT2 (Subcompact crossover) in 2020
    • CT1 or CT2 (A3 and CLA fighter) in 2021

    ^ Oh Holy Hell; NO. ATS and CLA at the exact same size. Unless the CT3 is growing in size, and the CT5 is growing in size (it just shrank), WTF is Cadillac messing around like this for?? ATS/CT3 - DONE. NO LOWER. For God's sakes... 

    Edited by balthazar
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    I still hate the naming scheme, too. It doesn't help that they chose not to refresh the ATS or CTS with new names, but the CT/XT naming scheme is so clumsy to say off the tongue.

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    4 hours ago, balthazar said:

    • XT1 or XT2 (Subcompact crossover) in 2020
    • CT1 or CT2 (A3 and CLA fighter) in 2021

    ^ Oh Holy Hell; NO. ATS and CLA at the exact same size. Unless the CT3 is growing in size, and the CT5 is growing in size (it just shrank), WTF is Cadillac messing around like this for?? ATS/CT3 - DONE. NO LOWER. For God's sakes... 

    Because they need volume, and their dealers want product to sell.  And GM sees dollar signs by taking a Chevy Traxx and making it a Cadillac and selling it for $30,900. 

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    5 hours ago, Paolino said:

    HATE the naming scheme.  I'll believe a CT8 when I see it.  I feel we keep getting news of an S-Class fighter and never quite happens.

    I agree, I don't like the names either, never did.  And I will believe a CT8 when I see it in the showroom.  Here is the problem with a S-class fighter, it will cost then $3 billion to do it right, that is probably more than the Silverado and Sierra's development budget and Cadillac will just never get that kind of budget.  It won't happen.

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    I hope they start using Omega in a big way, however what I am seeing here is Front wheel drive XT2, XT4, XT5 and XT7, and a front drive CT2.  It will be interesting to see the course they go.  But Johan has been there a while, Alpha platform is 5 years old, and yet XT5 and XT4 are coming out front drive, I think Cadillac wants front drive so they can just platform share with Chevy and cut cost.  It is "old GM" at it's finest.

     

    What I am not seeing in this list of new products are any coupes, convertibles, sports cars or electric cars.  Shouldn't they have EV's?  Shouldn't they make a sports car if they are a top tier brand?  Shouldn't they make 1 freaking convertible if they are an aspirational brand?

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    5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I agree, I don't like the names either, never did.  And I will believe a CT8 when I see it in the showroom.  Here is the problem with a S-class fighter, it will cost then $3 billion to do it right, that is probably more than the Silverado and Sierra's development budget and Cadillac will just never get that kind of budget.  It won't happen.


    They should have just f@#king built the CT6 to look like the Escala or any of the other gorgeous concepts. The CT6 doesn't look bad per se, but it's not uniquely expressive at all, and that would have generated so much more buzz in the Caddy showrooms.

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    11 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:


    They should have just f@#king built the CT6 to look like the Escala or any of the other gorgeous concepts. The CT6 doesn't look bad per se, but it's not uniquely expressive at all, and that would have generated so much more buzz in the Caddy showrooms.

    And the CT6 range topper engine is 116 lb-ft shy of the S-class's base engine.  They should have developed a CT6 exclusive V8 and made the 3.0TT the base engine for livery and rental spec cars.  They brought a knife to a gun fight.

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    10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Because they need volume, and their dealers want product to sell.  And GM sees dollar signs by taking a Chevy Traxx and making it a Cadillac and selling it for $30,900. 

    No different than MB, yet Cadillac does not need these low bottom feeders that really add nothing except make a name plate no different Than Chevy, Toyota, Ford, etc..

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    I think the CLA/A3 fighter is needed.  tha ATS, CTS, and CT6 are hardling setting the sales charts on fire.  We will certainly see this and the crossovers.  I have my doubts on the CT8 since this thing has been supposed to appear for what, 10 years now?  i also uldn't expect the crossovers ot the CLA fighter to use RWD platforms.  And that naming scheme sucks so bad..  

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    11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Because they need volume, and their dealers want product to sell.  And GM sees dollar signs by taking a Chevy Traxx and making it a Cadillac and selling it for $30,900. 

    They don't need volume though. That's what Chevy, GMC, and Buick are for. The cheaper the car the less the profit margins so they will be the least profitable Cadillacs anyway.

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    11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I hope they start using Omega in a big way, however what I am seeing here is Front wheel drive XT2, XT4, XT5 and XT7, and a front drive CT2.  It will be interesting to see the course they go.  But Johan has been there a while, Alpha platform is 5 years old, and yet XT5 and XT4 are coming out front drive, I think Cadillac wants front drive so they can just platform share with Chevy and cut cost.  It is "old GM" at it's finest.

     

    What I am not seeing in this list of new products are any coupes, convertibles, sports cars or electric cars.  Shouldn't they have EV's?  Shouldn't they make a sports car if they are a top tier brand?  Shouldn't they make 1 freaking convertible if they are an aspirational brand?

    SUVs can be front drivers and nobody will know the difference. To cut costs here, of all places, is the smartest thing to do. Soccer moms don't even know what a canyon carver is, let alone want that.

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    GM is downsizing its model range if I understood correctly with the selling off of Opel and the explanation given that GM might retreat in some world markets and might stop offering some models in certain niches possibly eliminating a couple of those models all together.

    With that being said, Cadillac needs a direction to follow.

    Cadillac needs to sell cars and SUVs regardless what direction GM is heading down and we as of March 31, 2017 should realize that Cadillac needs to do whatever it takes to become relevant to remain in business.

    I was against cars and SUVs smaller than the ATS. Hell, I was against the ATS. But with the news of GM downsizing, my mindset is changing.

    Cadillac needs to break free from several stigmas in my opinion going forward from March 31, 2017 and beyond.

    1. That Cadillac is a one trick pony selling land yachts.  The Eldorado and Fleetwood Series 62 cars  are loooong gone but the Escalade took their place, but Cadillac is much more than that! So Cadillac needs more work in convincing people for that.

    Its clear that the "V" Series cars are not that answer. They  help, but another stigma has arose.

     

    2. That Cadillac is a bargain luxury car maker.

     

    3. Cadillac needs to distance itself to the connection to GM ....CHEVROLET through GM....

    I dont know if selling ATS and sub ATS  cars are that answer because to me, selling small and more or less affordable cars contradict the luxury status Cadillac is pursuing to reclaim its position it held 30-40 years ago, but Cadillac DEFINITELY needs to get butts in the showrooms and into their cars to drive off in them.

    That does mean more models, and it may mean picking up niches where Buick and Chevrolet may be abandoning....it seems contradictory but maybe a higher status vehicle might succeed where a lesser badge has failed...

    It hasnt been all fail for the ATS.

    People have bought/leased it.

    The ATS stumbled because it and the 3rd gen CTS were poorly conceived and to boot, so was the CT6...

    All 3 models step on each others toes somehow or other.

    So...

    Cadillac needs the right vehicle to sell in the HOT niches and if they fail to do that, they will miss yet another boat and train ride to relevancy. And if that means sub-ATS vehicles, so be it!

    They better be built right though befitting a top tier luxury line-up!

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    58 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    They don't need volume though. That's what Chevy, GMC, and Buick are for. The cheaper the car the less the profit margins so they will be the least profitable Cadillacs anyway.

    But if they can make $4000 profit on a Cadillac Traxx vs $700 profit on a Chevy Traxx, what do you think GM will want to do?   Cadillac needs more volume because selling 1 Cadillac can make as much money as selling 5 Chevy and GM wants profit at the bottom line.

    50 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    SUVs can be front drivers and nobody will know the difference. To cut costs here, of all places, is the smartest thing to do. Soccer moms don't even know what a canyon carver is, let alone want that.

    That was said about luxury sedans in the 80s and 90s also.  Front drive was better in snow, etc, and by the time Cadillac switched to a rear drive heavy line up aroun 2004 it was too late.

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    30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    But if they can make $4000 profit on a Cadillac Traxx vs $700 profit on a Chevy Traxx, what do you think GM will want to do?   Cadillac needs more volume because selling 1 Cadillac can make as much money as selling 5 Chevy and GM wants profit at the bottom line.

    But is making a cheap/small vehicle like that hurting their large car's perceived value of luxury? I think they should stay away from anything smaller than an ATS and focus on what old Cadillac would have done w/ massive land barges but I know that won't happen. ATS and up and make like 2 different huge sedans and coupes the size of S Classes AND LARGER. They have the small car and volume thing to worry about at Chevy.. Let Cadillac be BOLD again.

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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Cadillac needs to break free from several stigmas in my opinion going forward from March 31, 2017 and beyond.

    1. That Cadillac is a one trick pony selling land yachts. 
    Cadillac needs more work in convincing people for that.

    Who has this impression, I mean' REALLY?
    The last Cadillac 'land yacht' was the Brougham, which hasn't been built in EIGHTEEN YEARS. You'd have to be some kind of mountaintop cave dweller to think Cadillac still built something befitting that nickname. WE ALL know there's no 'land yachts', but for some reason some of us think there's others of us that do.

    It's not the mindset that has to go away, but the mindset that there's a mindset. It's not legitimate.

    The Escalade is a full-size SUV, that's not remotely the same thing. 

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    6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Cadillac already has one.

    What?  the ATS is too pricey to be a direct competitor. 

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    They're only 3k apart. ATS starts at 34,500 CLA starts at 32,400. The A3 is cheaper at 31,200.

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    12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Who has this impression, I mean' REALLY?
    The last Cadillac 'land yacht' was the Brougham, which hasn't been built in EIGHTEEN YEARS. You'd have to be some kind of mountaintop cave dweller to think Cadillac still built something befitting that nickname. WE ALL know there's no 'land yachts', but for some reason some of us think there's others of us that do.

    It's not the mindset that has to go away, but the mindset that there's a mindset. It's not legitimate.

    The Escalade is a full-size SUV, that's not remotely the same thing. 

    Well Balthy, its there!

    And THAT is the PROBLEM...DENYING that that stigma exists!
    Maybe if the powers that be in charge of Cadillac and some fans of Cadillac took their heads outta the sand, then maybe they would see reality in a much clearer way!

    And then maybe that explains why the Escalade is such a run-a-way success story as compared to say a STS, CTS, CT6...
     

    You think that a BOF SUV is all that different from a BOF fullsized sedan?

    Please refrain from the semantics...

    Cadillac needs to be bold!

    Cadillac also has stigma issues they need to shake off regardless how long they ceased production of Fleetwoods, Broughams and Cimarrons...to deny that is living in a bubble!

    Cadillac needs to be in the niches that people are actually buying their luxury rides, perceived luxury or not!

    Cadillac needs to introduce cars that you and I are not comfortable with...its because those people that will buy their cars in niches we think is not deserving of Cadillac, its these people that will lift these negative stigmas once and for all!!!

    Escalade for all I know, is hurting Cadillac to move forward.

    Big gangsta blinged out mobile versus mafia boss hiding dead bodies in the trunk...

    Yeah...the stigma is there Balthy...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Ive been on both sides of the fence. I really dont know what way Cadillac should go.

    But at least Im aware that Cadillac's image is not healthy. And I listen to many reasons as to why that is...

     

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    1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

    They're only 3k apart. ATS starts at 34,500 CLA starts at 32,400. The A3 is cheaper at 31,200.

    Ah, but people see both the Mercedes and Audi as more prestigious.  What is the difference in price between a CLA and C class, or A3 and A4?

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    I think Cadillac should embrace their position as slightly lower cost domestic luxury, even if that means they don't have Mercedes-level interiors. A $40,000 basic ATS 2.0T remains a self-defeating proposition. A $50,000 low/mid level CTS isn't working. I mean, I'd love to own a Cadillac, but a mid-level ATS 2.0T with an upgraded interior costs $46k! That's $10k short of a Corvette and $10k more than a Camaro SS.

    If I ran Cadillac it would be more like this:

    $35k decently equipped ATS 2.0T w/LED signature lights.
    $40k upper trim ATS V6
    $55k ATS-V

    $40k decently equipped CTS 2.0T
    $47k upper trim CTS V6
    $55k CTS V-Sport
    $75k CTS-V

    $50k base CT6 V6 RWD (no more 2.0T)
    $60k CT6 3.0T AWD
    $70k CT6 Platinum

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      We believe strong car-buying fundamentals are reflected in the retail component of the light vehicle SAAR (seasonally-adjusted annual rate), which was 14 million in March, up 0.3 million versus a year ago. The retail SAAR for the first quarter was 14.3 million, up 0.1 million. Ten all-new or recently redesigned crossovers are expected to drive GM’s sales and share higher in 2017. GM’s deliveries to daily rental companies are expected to decline for the third year in a row. The company expects inventory in the second quarter to be lower than the first quarter, in a range around 90 days’ supply. The decline reflects strong sales, lower car production and strategic, launch-related growth in truck and crossover stocks. The company expects to end 2017 at essentially the same inventory levels as 2016 on a days’ supply basis, but with fewer cars and more trucks and crossovers in stock. As expected, incentives were down sharply from February 2017, according to J.D Power PIN estimates. Spending as a percentage of average transaction price (ATP) declined from approximately 14.9 percent to about 13.5 percent. The launches of new crossovers and adjustments to passenger car inventories will help moderate incentive spending going forward.
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