If not for RAM sales, FCAs losses would be even more devastating that they already look. Just brutal. 

22 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

If not for RAM sales, FCAs losses would be even more devastating that they already look. Just brutal. 

It's interesting that the small Asian brands are doing really well while the big ones are flat or down. 

I take that back as new numbers come in. 

Fiat, Alfa and Chrysler sales are just miserable.  This is why Sergio wanted to merge and dump some brands.

44 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The problem was he wanted to dump the wrong brands.  He wanted to save the Italian brands and kill off the american ones except Jeep.

Ram and Jeep are the only 2 American brands they need.  Alfa Romeo  products should probably be merged into Maserati as their luxury brand.  They really only need one luxury/performance brand, just pick one.  Too many weak brands in FCA, it is like early 2000s GM.

5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Dodge is the everyman brand
Chrysler is the premium brand like a cross between Buick and Lincoln.
Fiat - kill in the US
Alfa - Merge with Maserati
Maserati - Ultra luxury brand
Ram - Trucks
Jeep - just be jeep.

Chrysler is a North America only brand with low volume, they don't need that.  I could see keeping Dodge for North America and Fiat for Europe, but I feel like 2030 onward when ride sharing and autonomy goes up and car sales go down, regional brands won't survive, only global ones will.

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Chrysler is a North America only brand with low volume, they don't need that.  I could see keeping Dodge for North America and Fiat for Europe, but I feel like 2030 onward when ride sharing and autonomy goes up and car sales go down, regional brands won't survive, only global ones will.

Chrysler needs product. Jeep and Ram are thriving because they actually have new product. Chrysler will too if given the chance.

12 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Chrysler needs product. Jeep and Ram are thriving because they actually have new product. Chrysler will too if given the chance.

And what product will sell there?  There is no point in making 3 SUVs for Chrysler as they have Jeep for SUV and Jeep sales are down.  Sedans don't sell, FCA could spend $2 billion on a new mid-size sedan and the Camry will outsell it 5 to 1, so that would be a total waste of money.  The brand is just a dead brand, Pontiac had more mojo in 2007 than Chrysler has in 2019.

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And what product will sell there?  There is no point in making 3 SUVs for Chrysler as they have Jeep for SUV and Jeep sales are down.  Sedans don't sell, FCA could spend $2 billion on a new mid-size sedan and the Camry will outsell it 5 to 1, so that would be a total waste of money.  The brand is just a dead brand, Pontiac had more mojo in 2007 than Chrysler has in 2019.

Jeep sells real honest-to-God SUVs that are supposed to go off-road.  Chrysler does NOT have those.  The Pacifica is a really good if not great minivan.  A very good FWD crossover or two can do Chrysler some good.  Just don't mess it up like they did with the Dodge Journey.

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

Jeep sells real honest-to-God SUVs that are supposed to go off-road.  Chrysler does NOT have those.  The Pacifica is a really good if not great minivan.  A very good FWD crossover or two can do Chrysler some good.  Just don't mess it up like they did with the Dodge Journey.

Renegade, Compass and Cherokee are all front drive crossovers, all of those are down this year.  Wrangler is down, but I think they just overpriced the new one, that is a different issue.

FCA has bad reliability.  They can give Chrysler all the crossovers they want to, but until they fix the reliability and build quality they aren't going to make a dent in Rav4 and CR-V sales, not to mention the 7 SUVs over at Hyundai.  The Pacifica is down 30% this year, the 300 is down 40% for the year, 50% last month, and probably what they did sell is fleet sales.  Chrysler is basically one product and that product is hemoraging 30% losses despite not being that old on the market.  They invented the mini-van and can't even win in that segment, why on earth would the dump money into crossovers to take on the Rav4 and Highlander, they have no shot there.  Likewise with Dodge, their sales are tanking and they have no new product on the horizon.

Nearing 42k miles on my very early build "Jeepiat" with nary an issue.  At what point is "reliability" measured?

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Nearing 42k miles on my very early build "Jeepiat" with nary an issue.  At what point is "reliability" measured?

Funny you say that...

My partner's TESLA Model S is has over 100 000 KM (over 60 000 miles) and other than a couple of recalls (3-5 recalls), nary an issue too...

To keep this in perspective...my own Acura has had 2 or 3 recalls to which one of them was silent...but the TL is very reliable...

My wife's Fusion...I literally cant count them on both of my hands as I think the recalls exceeded 10...but the Fusion, other than front brake rotors being changed prematurely because they warped (prematurely|), very reliable too...

Anecdotes are fun..arent they? 

But you have hidden agendas , and you become hypocritical when discussing things...

Two things: (1) God, I hate Subarus, and (2) I am anxiously waiting to see what the next Charger will look like.

Next ...

6 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Two things: (1) God, I hate Subarus, and (2) I am anxiously waiting to see what the next Charger will look like.

Next ...

I just read Consumer Reports' Auto Issue borrowed from a neighbor.  CR loves Subaru almost as much as Toyota/Lexus this year.

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

Chrysler is in the sale volume tent as Acura & infiniti and it's 25% higher than volvo.
No way that's 'miserable' volume unless those other premium brands are also. Are they?

I agree with DD; we read certain people claim Lincoln was "a dead brand" but all it took was product to revive it. Chrysler has far greater potential than fiat or alfa romeo has, it just needs the right product.
 

Quoted for truth...and even a die hard For Cynic like me cannot help but like the new Lincoln product.

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Nearing 42k miles on my very early build "Jeepiat" with nary an issue.  At what point is "reliability" measured?

You have almost as many miles as I have on my 5 yr old Jeep...42.5k now.  In the 2 years I've had it, it's been very reliable.   Happy w/ my FCA CPO. 

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And what product will sell there?  There is no point in making 3 SUVs for Chrysler as they have Jeep for SUV and Jeep sales are down.  Sedans don't sell, FCA could spend $2 billion on a new mid-size sedan and the Camry will outsell it 5 to 1, so that would be a total waste of money.  The brand is just a dead brand, Pontiac had more mojo in 2007 than Chrysler has in 2019.

Lincoln style crossovers based on Pacifica.  It could be done just fine.   Why does Porsche, Audi, and VW all have SUVs that overlap?

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

Chrysler is in the sale volume tent as Acura & infiniti and it's 25% higher than volvo.
No way that's 'miserable' volume unless those other premium brands are also. Are they?

I agree with DD; we read certain people claim Lincoln was "a dead brand" but all it took was product to revive it. Chrysler has far greater potential than fiat or alfa romeo has, it just needs the right product.
 

Chrysler is not a luxury brand though, it is a Honda Odyssey, Toyota Avalon competitor brand.   Chrysler also doesn’t have European or Chinese market sales like some of those other brands do.  

GM has spent billions upon billions on Cadillac trying to revive them and they are still struggling and they were never a “dead” brand nor did Cadillac have a total product drought like Chrysler has.  FCA will probably go bankrupt trying to revive Chrysler, the reason they have no new product is there is no money.

26 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Lincoln style crossovers based on Pacifica.  It could be done just fine.   Why does Porsche, Audi, and VW all have SUVs that overlap?

Porsche and Audi are pretty different and is the Toureg even still around?  I mean I know it exists but not in USA anymore I don’t think.  That is the only VW suv built on the MLB platform.

FCA can’t get Alfa Romero or Maserati to compete with the German and Japanese luxury brands, yet the Chrysler brand could pull that off?  Zero chance, waste of money if they try it.

18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Chrysler is not a luxury brand though, it is a Honda Odyssey, Toyota Avalon competitor brand.   Chrysler also doesn’t have European or Chinese market sales like some of those other brands do.  

GM has spent billions upon billions on Cadillac trying to revive them and they are still struggling and they were never a “dead” brand nor did Cadillac have a total product drought like Chrysler has.  FCA will probably go bankrupt trying to revive Chrysler, the reason they have no new product is there is no money.

There's plenty of money. They have no debt. They already have the platform. They could build two or three crossovers off the Pacifica. Build a Terrain sized crossover for Chrysler off the Cherokee and give it a Buick Envision type of quiet luxury. 

Jeep is gushing cash and that cash is being spent poorly on trying to give CPR to Alfa Romeo and Fiat instead of Chrysler.  As far as making it global, they could be sold as Chrysler in China and as Lancia in Europe. Just swap the badges. 

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Porsche and Audi are pretty different and is the Toureg even still around?  I mean I know it exists but not in USA anymore I don’t think.  That is the only VW suv built on the MLB platform.

FCA can’t get Alfa Romero or Maserati to compete with the German and Japanese luxury brands, yet the Chrysler brand could pull that off?  Zero chance, waste of money if they try it.

Chrysler isn't meant to compete against the German brands directly. It should be more of a Lincoln brand/Buick brand type of thing. 

Porsche and Audi are no more different than Chrysler and Jeep... if anything they are much closer in mission than Chrysler and Jeep are. 

42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Porsche and Audi are pretty different and is the Toureg even still around?  I mean I know it exists but not in USA anymore I don’t think.  That is the only VW suv built on the MLB platform.

FCA can’t get Alfa Romero or Maserati to compete with the German and Japanese luxury brands, yet the Chrysler brand could pull that off?  Zero chance, waste of money if they try it.

So what you are saying is that FCA is merely continuing the failure that Daimler started almost twenty years ago by just leaving Chrysler and Dodge hanging out to rot on a vine. Good to know.

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

You have almost as many miles as I have on my 5 yr old Jeep...42.5k now.  In the 2 years I've had it, it's been very reliable.   Happy w/ my FCA CPO. 

Considering  a Jeep for my next vehicle.

58 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

So what you are saying is that FCA is merely continuing the failure that Daimler started almost twenty years ago by just leaving Chrysler and Dodge hanging out to rot on a vine. Good to know.

Daimler should have never bought them to begin with, Daimler lost like $20 billion on them.  And the Daimler era got Chrysler the LX platform and the Grand Cheroke platform, which are like the only 2 Chrysler products that have done anything the past 15 years.