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    William Maley

    Tesla Cuts Model 3 Price Again

      Follows a price cut from last month

    Tesla isn't done with price cuts it seems. Bloomberg reports that the automaker has dropped the price of all Model 3 models by $1,100 - bringing the base price to $42,900. The reason cited by Tesla was the end of a customer referral program that ended up costing them more than they realize.

    The program gave new owners six months of free supercharging if they were referred by a friend. Those who referred a number of people got rewarded with various prizes such as getting the next-generation Tesla Roadster.

    This is the second price cut for Model 3 this year. Last month, Tesla instituted a $2,000 price cut on their lineup to soften the blow of the Federal Tax Credit being cut from $7,000 to $3,750.

    Source: Bloomberg



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    15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Great! Now start building the $35k base model you promised.

    Yeah... my friend wasn't thrilled about that, but nonetheless, he shelled out the money, like Tesla banked on.

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    At forty two grand...these will be fantastic used car buys when i replace the Beetle in a year or two. I may have actually purchased my last ICE automobile. Kind of wild.

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    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    At forty two grand...these will be fantastic used car buys when i replace the Beetle in a year or two. I may have actually purchased my last ICE automobile. Kind of wild.

    I've heard the Tesla used car buying experience can be horrific...hopefully that will improve in the future.

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    1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

    I've heard the Tesla used car buying experience can be horrific...hopefully that will improve in the future.

    Interesting...had not heard that.

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    32 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Interesting...had not heard that.

    I am sure there will be other options too as in a few years we will see the iPace and MQC EVs show up on the CPO scene plus there is always the Bolt which is in CPO now.

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    42 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    I've heard the Tesla used car buying experience can be horrific...hopefully that will improve in the future.

    What have you heard?

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    5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    What have you heard?

    This was mostly from the Rich Rebuilds podcast about his experience buying a used Model X, but IIRC things like waiting months for the car to be delivered locally (w/ Tesla providing dates that kept changing), lack of photographs of the car, poor communication over the phone w/ untrained people, cars stored at a 3rd party auction lot, etc.  Seems like core issues are that Tesla doesn't have used car lots or used car sales processes like normal dealers.. from comments it sounds like it's not an isolated event. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    Just now, Robert Hall said:

    This was mostly from the Rich Rebuilds podcast about his experience buying a used Model X, but IIRC things like waiting months for the car to be delivered locally (w/ Tesla providing dates that kept changing), lack of photographs of the car, poor communication over the phone w/ untrained people, cars stored at a 3rd party auction lot, etc.  Seems like core issues are that Tesla doesn't have used car lots or used car sales processes like normal dealers..

    That sounds like it is specific to Tesla sales though.  No reason you couldn't also buy a Tesla from a local Buick-GMC-Cadillac dealer. 

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    4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    That sounds like it is specific to Tesla sales though.  No reason you couldn't also buy a Tesla from a local Buick-GMC-Cadillac dealer. 

    Good question..I wonder if there are used Teslas at non-Tesla dealers...I suppose that could happen. 

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    22 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    I am sure there will be other options too as in a few years we will see the iPace and MQC EVs show up on the CPO scene plus there is always the Bolt which is in CPO now.

    I have seen a bunch of EV vehicles on the road here in Columbus....yesterday i saw an I8, a couple dozen Teslas, several bolts, Several Leafs...

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    1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    I wonder if these are getting traded back in for ICE autos or what....

    Yes, it seems so weird to imagine Teslas on a regular used car lot.    I guess I haven't been to a used car lot in a long time.     I thought with EVs it was 'once you go electric, you never go back' but who knows....

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    20 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    I wonder if these are getting traded back in for ICE autos or what....

    Around here with all the steep hills and mountains and snow, AWD is becoming a standard requirement for many here in the Tech industry. I suspect it was traded in for an AWD or 4x4 ICE auto.

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    1 minute ago, dfelt said:

    Around here with all the steep hills and mountains and snow, AWD is becoming a standard requirement for many here in the Tech industry. I suspect it was traded in for an AWD or 4x4 ICE auto.

    That makes sense. I know if I lived out there I'd be driving my JGC.   

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    2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    That makes sense. I know if I lived out there I'd be driving my JGC.   

    Current storm this week.

     

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    14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Around here with all the steep hills and mountains and snow, AWD is becoming a standard requirement for many here in the Tech industry. I suspect it was traded in for an AWD or 4x4 ICE auto.

    Most Teslas are AWD these days.

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    7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Most Teslas are AWD these days.

    True, but the ones on the dealer lots around here like the two I posted above are RWD only. Very weird.

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    1 minute ago, dfelt said:

    True, but the ones on the dealer lots around here like the two I posted above are RWD only. Very weird.

    Some could be tech industry resource units that relocated from the SF Bay Area or Austin or other non-snowy climate locales..  I used to see that in Denver.  Coworkers that moved from So Cal or Austin that had 2wd SUVs...

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    It is nice that the price has dropped, these were selling like crazy before the price cut, so I expect they will continue to sell fast.  I think this shows too that EV costs will drop over time.

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    There was a HUGE pull-ahead in December Model 3 sales, undoubtedly due to the lowering of the tax credit. Tesla moved 25, 250 model 3s in Dec, but a mere 6500 in January. That's a 75% decline.

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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    There was a HUGE pull-ahead in December Model 3 sales, undoubtedly due to the lowering of the tax credit. Tesla moved 25, 250 model 3s in Dec, but a mere 6500 in January. That's a 75% decline.

    Ouch....

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    1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

    Brings up a yuge question regarding EV lovers' sanity, right?

    310 miles for a Model 3.

    You start your day at 310, because you plugged it in the night before.

    310 miles minus the 40% drop gives you?

    Hell, Ill go with 220 miles starting your day because you left work at 5:00. Called your wife saying that your boss needs you to stay because you need to file files that havent been filed for 5 years. Went to happy hour instead, saw a buxom blonde. You bought her a wine spritzer. From a wine spritzer it became a Long Island Iced Tea. From there it became mutual belly shots and then...well, you went home at 3:00 in the morning and your wife was none the wiser. You plugged it your Model 3,  but 7:00 AM came fast (and so did you coincidentally) and your Model 3 only has got 220 mile range. We will reduce that range by not the 40% they say, but by a whopping 50%. So now you got 110 miles top go to your work that is 40 miles , 50....hell 60 miles away. You go to work every phoquing day 60 miles away from where you live. 60 motherphoquing miles.   SHYTE!  60 goddamned miles.  You got enough to get there, but how do you get back home?

    You could ask that buxom blonde from the night before to pick you up and drive you back home. You could entice her by asking her for a quickie in the backseat of her soccer mom SUV that is gasoline powered...

    Anyway...back to the 60 mile problem...because now you only have a 50 mile range and you got to travel 60 miles...

    1. Maybe your employer has installed charger stations?

    2. What the phoque are you complaining about the 40-50% ?  You are travelling 60 miles to work everyday.

    I think you got a bigger problem than 40% range loss because of cold weather in your EV,  find yourself travelling and losing time doing it every phoquing day...

    If that scenario was real...120 miles to go to work every day will bankrupt you in gasoline if you had a joe schmo job and you drove even a V6 automobile let alone a V8. Also, the wear and tear on that V6.  4 cylinder you say? WEAR AND TEAR I SAY.

    So...as you see, even in extreme scenarios, 40% is a lot of range loss. But man!!!

    YOU ALWAYS START THE PHOQUING DAY WITH A "FULL TANK OF GAS" SINCE YOU COULD AND MOSTLY LIKELY YOU DO PLUG IN YOUR CAR EVERYDAY AFTER COMING HOME...

    ON A 1st GENERATION LEAF THAT HAD 30 MILE RANGE, YOU MAY HAVE A BIIIIIG PROBLEM, YES! 

    BUT ON ANY TESLA, CHEVROLET BOLT, EVEN THIS GENERATION NISSAN LEAF, AN AVERAGE COMMUTE FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN TO GO TO AND FROM WORK IS ABOUT 16 MILES. THERE ARE SOME THAT TRAVEL 50 MILES,YES, BUT A 40% RANGE LOSS IS MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING. EV HATERZ FIND THE JOY, BUT EV OWNERS JUST ADAPT AND THEY MAKE SURE THEY PLUG IN AND IN THE MORNING, A FULL TANK OF GAS AWAITS THEM...

    BATTERIES ARE GETTING BETTER. BETTER INSULATED TOO...SO THIS WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME A MOOT POINT TOO!!!

    https://itstillruns.com/far-americans-drive-work-average-7446397.html

     

     

    Quote

     

    If you drive long distances to your job each day, you are not alone. According to ABC News, the average American drives 16 miles to work each way, with a daily commute totaling nearly an hour round trip.

    Significance

     

    While the average commute involves 30 minutes in the car each way, many people commute less than a mile to work each day. On the other hand, this number is tempered by "extreme commuters" who must drive more than 100 miles each way to work during the week.

     

    Identification

     

    According to ABC News, 220 million Americans average an hour and a half each day in their cars. About 3.3 million people travel at least 50 miles to work one way, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

     

     

     

     

     

    But even with my very extreme examples, those 3.3 million Americans could STILL get home with juice to spare...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    29 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    POINT PROVEN!  :roflmao:

    Point proven on my side.

    Adapting is a very human trait. Humans ALWAYS adapt to their environment.  THAT is why humans have become the apex creature it has become. 

    Hell, humans have this crazy idea of colonizing Mars and beyond. EVs with a 40% range loss because of cold is a mere nuisance in the grand scheme of things.  

    Bratt Pitt said it best. (For 40% range loss at the shortest level and if you like...for the grand scheme of things...Mars colonization, moving from England to the new world, and then leaving the East to go West and getting killed by the savages and tornados we may encounter, changing from ICE to EVs,  going from Coke to diet Coke to Coke Zero back to Coke)

     

    You know, my partner owns a Model S. In the 4 years he has owned it, he NEVER once complained about range loss...he has mentioned it to me, but never complained about it. And, it was NEVER an issue with him either. Keep in mind that I DO live in Montreal and not in warm Los Angeles where this may or may not be a thing...

    This whole thing about cold weather range loss that just popped up everywhere the last month is probably hate propaganda from anybody that has an invested interest in oil and gasoline...

    Image result for much ado about nothing shakespeare

     

    I repeat. The low end Model 3 has a range of 220 miles.  The story was just entertainment value.  50% of 220 is 110. Same as my story line. Yes it had a purpose. Yes I did the 220 thing on purpose to prove a point. 

    110 mile range. Each and every day when someone starts their day. In the morning. At an extreme level of trying to prove a point. 

    If your employer has a charge system set-up for their employees to charge up...moot point. that would be another 110 mile range. One could stop and shop and joy ride. Even if the commute to work IS 60 miles. Like 3.3 million Americans do everyday. 

    The average commute is 16 miles.   Common man!   Theoretically, one could charge his 220 mile range, after losses 110 mile range EV after the 2nd day with out any panic... Even if the battery loss is compounded... 110 becomes 60, which becomes 30.  

    This is getting a little tiring, talking about non-existent range anxiety. This is not an issue anymore. 

    Move on from it! 

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    mYnx19QN_400x400.jpg

    Whoa whoa WHOA there, skeeterbite!  Settle down a bit!  Nobody wants an uncertain future.  Stick with ICE and you'll be juuuuuust fine.

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    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    mYnx19QN_400x400.jpg

    Whoa whoa WHOA there, skeeterbite!  Settle down a bit!  Nobody wants an uncertain future.  Stick with ICE and you'll be juuuuuust fine.

    Ill take this far.

    Uncertain future?

    Its safe to say that you are not a Native American. Even if you were, your ancestors did have to travel to get to North America anyway. 

    But, I think that your ancestors came from Merry Ole England.  They had to travel the Atlantic Ocean back when they thought the world was flat. It was proven otherwise by some chap named Christopher Columbo. 

    Be as it may, there must have been some folk that doubted that and disputed that fact vehemently.  Yet, for whatever reason, your ancestors decided to leave Merry Ole England, Or Ireland, or Scotland, because their future on that God forsaken island was...uncertain...to come to a new place to start fresh and take a chance on a perhaps better uncertain future. 

    In America, like I said, their future was also uncertain. If I know my American History (which New France history coincides with American History...and I do live in Quebec and we actually do learn about American History do to the fact that the French fought Les Anglais...) and between the French and their Native American Indigenous peoples alliance versus YOUR British roots and their Native American Indigenous peoples alliances...well, all of our futures were uncertain.  

    Famine, wars, cold winters...

    And if all that is still not enough, when the 13 colonies were established and New France was kept at bay, at the Natives tamed, that STILL was not enough, your ancestors decided to complicate their future slightly more and create more uncertainty by deciding to declare independence from Merry Ole England.

    And STILL that wasnt enough as some of your countrymen decided to trot further west into the wild where the Natives seemed to be more savage and the weather even more savage-ier.  Uncertain future you say?  To put it mildly...YES!!!

    And then as a young nation, you went all out on a new technology called the railway train...

    You know Blu, its fun talking to you...but if you havent noticed...if YOUR ancestors were truly afraid of an uncertain future, like you seem to be, then your ancestors would have never left that rainy, foggy island. 

    If your ancestors were truly afraid to embrace new technologies, they would have never learned about what MY ancestors brought to the table...

    Related image

     

    and perfect it and utilize it to colonize half the planet with it and rule the world with it later on, and then start a new nation with it and then police the whole world with it...

    Image result for American aircraft carrier

    all with uncertain futures attached  it...to the history of...well human kind really... 

    Here is another angle...

    Related image

    Man always dreamed about flying...and ALWAYS failed trying.

    A couple of thousand of years later after this story was told...

    Image result for wright brothers first flight

    And the flight of that bird...well, it was shorter than the length of a Boeing 747.

    Even though flight failed a million times before 1903 and thousands of times after 1903...

    Related image

    Because after that disaster, the future of flight was...uncertain...

    We still kept at it...and if we stopped and just held unto the same ole same ole safety zones...well...

    Image result for Luna landing

    That would have never have happened...

    Phoque man...let it go, bro!!!

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Took my Family out for lunch and our daughters best friend and her husband who is a police officer and drives a 4x4 F350 Dually came to lunch. He is a hard core Diesel driver, but has had the options of being able to drive their single Tesla X police CUV around the rich city he works for and has come to the decision that for most people EVs make sense especially with a full tank every day at the start and so little maintenance compared to ICE auto's.

    He then said for himself, until they have a decent 4x4 as he lives out in the woods and drives 50 miles every day, 100 round trip he would not give up his truck.

    I then showed him the Atlis Pickup with 5.5, 6.5 or 8 foot bed option.

    See the source image

    He read the web page from the company and said when it gets into production, he would consider it as the 400 mile battery pack even with reduced range in the cold would work for him.

    This was a die hard Diesel fan who would be willing to consider it. He has to drive 18 miles to get to the closest gas station, so being able to plug in at his house every night would be no big deal to have a full tank of go juice in the morning.

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    4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Took my Family out for lunch and our daughters best friend and her husband who is a police officer and drives a 4x4 F350 Dually came to lunch. He is a hard core Diesel driver, but has had the options of being able to drive their single Tesla X police CUV around the rich city he works for and has come to the decision that for most people EVs make sense especially with a full tank every day at the start and so little maintenance compared to ICE auto's.

    He then said for himself, until they have a decent 4x4 as he lives out in the woods and drives 50 miles every day, 100 round trip he would not give up his truck.

    I then showed him the Atlis Pickup with 5.5, 6.5 or 8 foot bed option.

    See the source image

    He read the web page from the company and said when it gets into production, he would consider it as the 400 mile battery pack even with reduced range in the cold would work for him.

    This was a die hard Diesel fan who would be willing to consider it. He has to drive 18 miles to get to the closest gas station, so being able to plug in at his house every night would be no big deal to have a full tank of go juice in the morning.

    Every day when I walk between buildings and cross streets at the university I work at I see eV's passing me on the road.  I do not consider either you or your debate  opponent, the esteem-able Mr "Blu reliable witnesses on electric cars. You say everything electric very short term, he says never...I see it as a long term thing.

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    It's absolutely a very long term thing. Rivian starts at $70K (website says "$61,500 after federal tax credit" but that's highly disingenuous)- that's a huge pill to swallow. Everybody can consider everything, but guess what one of the 3 legs of the Consideration Stool is? Cost.
    A Lambo Hurricane would work for me as a local errand / estimate vehicle, but guess what.

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    37 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    It's absolutely a very long term thing. Rivian starts at $70K (website says "$61,500 after federal tax credit" but that's highly disingenuous)- that's a huge pill to swallow. Everybody can consider everything, but guess what one of the 3 legs of the Consideration Stool is? Cost.
    A Lambo Hurricane would work for me as a local errand / estimate vehicle, but guess what.

    Personally I see you as more of a 50's rust and patina kind of a guy but you could rock the Lambo look....

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    It's absolutely a very long term thing. Rivian starts at $70K (website says "$61,500 after federal tax credit" but that's highly disingenuous)- that's a huge pill to swallow. Everybody can consider everything, but guess what one of the 3 legs of the Consideration Stool is? Cost.
    A Lambo Hurricane would work for me as a local errand / estimate vehicle, but guess what.

    I agree with you, yet the point I am making is a die hard diesel fan can see the value of of a truck that meets his needs in switching to an EV. Considering he just replaced his 10yr old 1ton Ram pickup with the CPO Ford F350. I do not expect him to change until 10 years from now and who knows where we will be now that Ford and GM have committed to having a 1/2 ton EV pickup. In 10 years we could also have 3/4 and 1 ton EV pickups.

    The thing is that the future has allot of exciting change so as we all enjoy our ICE auto's now, there will be alternative considerations down the road that just might entice you to change power train types.

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    5 hours ago, dfelt said:

    GM have committed to having a 1/2 ton EV pickup. In 10 years we could also have 3/4 and 1 ton EV pickups.

    Link please, on GM being "committed" to having a 1/2 ton EV pickup.

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    33 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    Link please, on GM being "committed" to having a 1/2 ton EV pickup.

    This article from last November says no plans..

    https://electrek.co/2018/11/12/electric-pickup-truck-gm/

    But this one implies they may build something to compete w/ the Tesla pickup

    https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/gm-electric-tesla-pickup-truck/

    Lead, follow, or get out of the way, right? 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    26 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Lead, follow, or get out of the way, right?

    They lead.  They make the best trucks.  Why waste money on a money-losing proposition?  Don't make no sense.

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    The Tesla haters that can only crap on them for range are just afraid or jealous that Tesla makes a better car than many of the gas options.  Every car has some sort of compromise, I don't hear people saying the Corvette or 911 sucks due to not enough trunk space or back seat room.  Or F150 owners complaining that it gets 17 mpg, or people bashing the Prius because it is slow.  All these vehicles have a flaw.

    The Model 3 has range limitation yes, it has a plain interior, but it also has positive attributes too, like technology and performance.  You have to compare what you get in a Model 3 vs an ATS, Q60, C-class or other similar priced car.

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    13 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

    *yawn*

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    4 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

    If Poor Quality was the only reason, then why are the Germans having to change their plans for their EVs after reverse engineering the Tesla 3.

    https://insideevs.com/porsche-audi-tesla-model-3-teardown/

    The story above is only one of a couple where all the German brands have bought a Tesla 3 and while the interiors and fit n finish leave something to be desired, their power train and tech surpasses what the Germans can do or have planned to do.

    More Great Reading as to why the Germans are scared.

    https://www.wiwo.de/technologie/mobilitaet/elektroauto-zerlegt-tesla-model-3-kann-gewinn-abwerfen/22625806.html

    https://www.quattrodaily.com/audi-and-porsche-worried-for-ppe-platform-after-tear-down-of-tesla-model-3/

    https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/25/tesla-an-uncomfortable-wake-up-call-for-germany-all-hands-on-deck/

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    Tesla has an ecosystem approach. That’s something all the others lagged behind.

    Honestly, if Tesla can just get to their damn $40,000 car...not even $35,000 they’ll have made it.

     

    I think they can reasonably get to 500k cars by 2021. Holy smokes.... were I to say this, maybe 2 years ago....pls I would have loved to be lynched by a mob, even I would have believed I deserved it by saying that!

     

     

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    I watched the Autoline After Hours when Sandy Munro was a guest and he went over the tear down of the Model 3.  Yes the build quality as far as panel gaps and things is not up to par for what it should be, but he said the electronics in the Tesla are light years ahead of what any other car has.  He said how no other automaker is even close on the electronics/software/hardware/batteries, so that has to count for something.

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    Just now, smk4565 said:

    I watched the Autoline After Hours when Sandy Munro was a guest and he went over the tear down of the Model 3.  Yes the build quality as far as panel gaps and things is not up to par for what it should be, but he said the electronics in the Tesla are light years ahead of what any other car has.  He said how no other automaker is even close on the electronics/software/hardware/batteries, so that has to count for something.

    I saw that episode too.

    That is why I downvoted Blu...

    When folk have predisposed ideas in their heads and spew #fakenews...

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    42 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

    So I guess your not a fan of modern AC/DC technology! :P :roflmao:

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    1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

    There are myriad reasons to "crap" on Tesla.  Poor quality is a real good one, for example.

    Throwing stones from your glass Fiat, I see...

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    7 hours ago, Blake Noble said:

    Throwing stones from your glass Fiat, I see...

    You mean like the rough-cut glass roof on a Model 3?  Well I haven't had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.  My panel gaps are fine.  The doors open (and close) every time I try.  All the trim is on tight.  My touch screen works.  Etc. etc., and all of this for only $26k.

    8 hours ago, dfelt said:

    your not a fan

    *you're  and nope

    Edited by ocnblu
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    26 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    You mean like the rough-cut glass roof on a Model 3?  Well I haven't had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.  My panel gaps are fine.  The doors open (and close) every time I try.  All the trim is on tight.  My touch screen works.  Etc. etc., and all of this for only $26k.

    *you're  and nope

    One reason I wouldn't mind owning a Jeep.

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    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    You mean like the rough-cut glass roof on a Model 3?  Well I haven't had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.  My panel gaps are fine.  The doors open (and close) every time I try.  All the trim is on tight.  My touch screen works.  Etc. etc., and all of this for only $26k.

    *you're  and nope

     

    Me:

    Related image

     

    BLU:

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    DFELT: 

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    President Trump:

    Image result for THATS A FACT GIF

     

    A Horse With No Name:

    Image result for THATS A FACT GIF

     

    Me:

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    Me again:

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    Related image

     

    Related image

     

     

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    Getting back on track, the Model 3 is an interesting novelty car, but for the price, there are so many far more appealing cars, IMO.   It would not be on my radar. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    5 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    *you're  and nope

    Spelling Nazi! :P 

    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    Getting back on track, the Model 3 is an interesting novelty car, but for the price, there are so many far more appealing cars, IMO.   It would not be on my radar. 

    I can respect that. If I was a car fan and could fit in it, which I cannot, it would be on my list of cars.

    I am far more excited to see the Model Y CUV which I admit, I will probably not fit in but should also sell Gang Busta for Tesla.

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    3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    Getting back on track, the Model 3 is an interesting novelty car, but for the price, there are so many far more appealing cars, IMO.   It would not be on my radar. 

    I too could respect that.

    And I could see why some people in some areas of the world could see it as a novelty car, but seeing as my next door neighbor having one and he being one of those folk that daily drives it for about 40 miles (about 60-65 kilometers)to get to work and he enjoys it, lives with it, does not have ANY issues with it, despite "cold weather" range loss and yuuuuge body gaps and #facts of faulty electronics despite real industry insiders saying that Tesla electronics are the best there is NOW on the market, despite driving a 1st generation Chevrolet Volt and NEVER having the engine turn on to power up the battery despite that 40 mile drive, and having his employer use the company's charging stations, (then was free, now maybe he has to pay a fee, but now he has a 310 mile range Model 3...) there are some in this world that do not see the Model 3 as a novelty car, but as a honest to goodness alternative to Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc and are quite happy and ecstatic  to own it and daily drive it. 

    And despite this "new found scandal" and problem of range loss, when 1st generation Priuses and Volts and Nissan Leafs were roaming around with ONLY with a handful of range, somehow this range loss due to cold weather was NOT a factor but now that Bolts and Model Ss, and Model Ys  and Model 3s all have 200-400 mile ranges, NOW it has become a problem.

    I guess, because having only a handful of electric miles was not a threat to ICE vehicles...for real.

    But NOW that EVs have REAL mileage, REAL THREATENING mileage, I guess NOW is the time to try to get a scare campaign out to try to limit the popularity of them...

    Novelty to some. Yes. I agree 100%

    But to others, like people in Montreal, the Model 3, as a PERSONAL vehicle, not as an UBER taxi service vehicle, but as a personal transportation pod, it aint a novelty. Its THE real deal.

    And, as enthusiasts on this board, the ONLY thing it lacks, is maybe a muscle car V8 or Ferrari V12 sound? 

    (yet some of us who complain about the sound and lack of sound fury, drive pathetic 4cylinder CUVs? Or like me, pathetic muffled 300 horse V6s...when the Model 3 not only out accelerates me with ease, but also dances around a rink faster than I could ever do with the TL...because the Model 3 is THAT good in handling on rails track performance)

    We could invent other things about it to dislike, but that wouldnt be genuine now, is it? 

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    2 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Spelling Nazi! :P 

    I can respect that. If I was a car fan and could fit in it, which I cannot, it would be on my list of cars.

    I am far more excited to see the Model Y CUV which I admit, I will probably not fit in but should also sell Gang Busta for Tesla.

    Short of an F450 not sure you fit in anything, actually.

    3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

     

    Me:

    Related image

     

    BLU:

    Related image

     

    DFELT: 

    Related image

     

    President Trump:

    Image result for THATS A FACT GIF

     

    A Horse With No Name:

    Image result for THATS A FACT GIF

     

    Me:

    Related image

     

    Me again:

    Related image

     

    Related image

     

    Related image

     

     

    Funniest thing I have seen in a long time.

    3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    Getting back on track, the Model 3 is an interesting novelty car, but for the price, there are so many far more appealing cars, IMO.   It would not be on my radar. 

    The point is that it is selling...in ten years there may be an electric you like.

    For me 25K and a CPO well optioned GTI is the bomb for the next car.

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    25 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    I too could respect that.

    And I could see why some people in some areas of the world could see it as a novelty car, but seeing as my next door neighbor having one and he being one of those folk that daily drives it for about 40 miles (about 60-65 kilometers)to get to work and he enjoys it, lives with it, does not have ANY issues with it, despite "cold weather" range loss and yuuuuge body gaps and #facts of faulty electronics despite real industry insiders saying that Tesla electronics are the best there is NOW on the market, despite driving a 1st generation Chevrolet Volt and NEVER having the engine turn on to power up the battery despite that 40 mile drive, and having his employer use the company's charging stations, (then was free, now maybe he has to pay a fee, but now he has a 310 mile range Model 3...) there are some in this world that do not see the Model 3 as a novelty car, but as a honest to goodness alternative to Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc and are quite happy and ecstatic  to own it and daily drive it. 

    I guess, because having only a handful of electric miles was not a threat to ICE vehicles...for real.

    But NOW that EVs have REAL mileage, REAL THREATENING mileage, I guess NOW is the time to try to get a scare campaign out to try to limit the popularity of them...

    Novelty to some. Yes. I agree 100%

     

    For the price, I just don't find it impressive..the interior is dull, the fit and finish subpar, etc.    And the EV aspect is interesting, but I don't really need one...for a compact luxury daily driver, I think I'd be happier with an A4, ATS, C-class, G70, 3-series, etc...though even better would be a higher-level luxury car CPO.

    Edited by Robert Hall

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    14 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    For the price, I just don't find it impressive..the interior is dull, the fit and finish subpar, etc.    And the EV aspect is interesting, but I don't really need one...for a compact luxury daily driver, I think I'd be happier with an A4, ATS, C-class, G70, 3-series, etc...

    I aint throwing rocks your way. I respect you and understand your wants and needs out of a vehicle. 

    And yes!  All Tesla interiors, for their price, have sub par interior quality. Hell, A Ford Fusion, a car about the same size as the Model 3, has a better quality interior at a much much much cheaper price for that matter!

    But in this case, in any Tesla vehicle case, the money is not on the quality of the interior, but on the technology that the Model 3 utilizes. Either in the battery tech and power train or the electronics.  Those electronics are superbly assembled, excellently and tightly packaged at placed perfectly in the right areas of the vehicle and manufactured with less defects than any other OEM as of now.  

    For a compact sport sedan, it even manages to be, at  worst an equal sport sedan driver to an  E30 BMW and at best, it betters it...

    Meaning, the Model 3 out-BMWs the current crop of BMW sport sedans...

    But like I said,  I aint throwing rocks your way. I understand you.  Im just defending the Model 3 against another certain individual that may or may not discuss the real honest to goodness truth about the Model 3. 

     

    PS: On the interiors of Tesla vehicles.

    This reminds me of a Corvette discussion when people hatin' on Vettes ALWAYS go to the default, go to, flaw for the Vette. The interior.

    As with the Vette and with Tesla cars, one does not buy for the Italian leather. One buys the Vette and Tesla for the technology and the powertrain they get with either purchase. 

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    imageproxy.php?img=&key=3441757d8839e6182woe1c4vcq021.jpg

    So you are saying low build quality can be  a feature not a fault...

     

    But that is the thing. The Model 3  aint "low" build quality.

    We manage to over exaggerate that a little, non? 

    All 3 Tesla vehicles get very very high crash ratings...

    I dont really care for the nuances of the Model S being downgraded by Consumers Reports because of...

    Despite all the political clout (not governmental but corporate politics surrounding Big Oil and GM and Ford and EV manufactures and batteries and the like) and all the monetary reasons behind all that clout regardless on what fence you are on, the REAL, TRUE facts is that Tesla cars are built to WORLD standards. And Tesla cars seem to be better than satisfactory in build quality in ANY WORLD standard...

    And Tesla cars seem to have high crash ratings in ANY world wide crash tests...

    So...

    No...I will NOT accept opinions that counter to what I just said...

    What I just said is not only my opinion, but its closer to reality of what is what. 

     

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    I've read plenty of good things about Teslas, and want to see them succeed as an American independent tech company.  They just don't appeal to me.  But a straight 6 BMW w/ a manual or a Gulia or G70 w/ a manual...those would be a way more engaging, interesting drive to me.    As would most any current Cadillac sedan.   (not that I'm getting out an SUV anytime soon, but a luxury sedan or sport sedan of some sort could be interesting down the road...)

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    Here's the allegedly troublesome 'stripes' that 'confused' the Tesla.
    This area is too busy, with too many lights/side streets- I'm surprised autopilot would even activate here, I'm sure that can be checked thru Tesla... maybe driver was blaming autopilot to cover his own poor driving.

    Screen Shot 2019-02-12 at 2.19.52 PM.png

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    Is there any ice or snow on the ground? Because that too will "confuse" any autopilot system.  (Not just Tesla's system)

    The NTSB should rethink on how it views autonomous driving technology as a whole going forward. Tesla or otherwise. 

    And Tesla, with yet another accident, even if driver error, should rethink its policies and strategies (for human life) concerning this shyte!   

    It does not matter if the consumer does not understand the tech, or even if we humans abuse the tech, or because the tech is still at its infancy.

    Its clear that the tech is flawed. The way we use it, the way it is to be used and consumed, the way its currently set-up...it aint working...

    Its up to the corporate world to make a moral decision on it NOT based on money and how to entice people to buy their vehicles and its up to the NTSB, as a government agency, to protect the citizens that they are supposed to protect as a good and honest government agency should do...

     

     

     

     

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    41 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Is there any ice or snow on the ground? Because that too will "confuse" any autopilot system.  (Not just Tesla's system)

    There is today, but it was clear/dry yesterday/day before when this accident happened.

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    42 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    l use cruise control like it's my job. 

    Wow! You get paid to use cruise control.  This is awesome. Your salary is calculated  by the mile traveled with cruise control or by the minute that it is used? 

    I wish I had extra income to come in as easy as that.

     

     

    14 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    There is today, but it was clear/dry yesterday/day before when this accident happened.

    Thanx!   But still...no reason for this accident to happen regardless if the driver is an idiot or auto-pilot faltered. 

    Edited by oldshurst442

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    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    Since I don't use cruise control, I couldn't imagine using the autopilot feature...seems like asking for trouble. 

    I rarely use it.

    Self driving is different tech from electric cars.

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    6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    I rarely use it.

    Self driving is different tech from electric cars.

    Yes, I know. Different can of worms.   Being a software guy, I know how complex and unreliable software systems can be, have no interest in the self driving stuff anytime soon...

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    5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Yes, I know. Different can of worms.   Being a software guy, I know how complex and unreliable software systems can be, have no interest in the self driving stuff anytime soon...

    You are talking to a guy who often prefers 18th century style hand tools to the electrically powered stuff for Woodworking.  I feel your pain...

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    3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    You are talking to a guy who often prefers 18th century style hand tools to the electrically powered stuff for Woodworking.  I feel your pain...

    It's funny...I like having the latest tech on some things--I geek out over software and electronics in general..but with some things I prefer proven, reliable technologies..don't want to be bleeding edge on everything.  Don't want to be the one bleeding..;)

    Edited by Robert Hall

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    3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    For the price, I just don't find it impressive..the interior is dull, the fit and finish subpar, etc.    And the EV aspect is interesting, but I don't really need one...for a compact luxury daily driver, I think I'd be happier with an A4, ATS, C-class, G70, 3-series, etc...though even better would be a higher-level luxury car CPO.

    Robert by the time your ready for your next CPO Jeep, It just might be GC EV! :P 

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    10 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    You mean like the rough-cut glass roof on a Model 3?  Well I haven't had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.  My panel gaps are fine.  The doors open (and close) every time I try.  All the trim is on tight.  My touch screen works.  Etc. etc., and all of this for only $26k.

    Wait, wait, wait. “I haven’t had to plug it in yet at 37k miles.” What?

    So energy and resource usage is an indicator of “poor quality” now?

    Welllll then...

    In 37,000 miles, you have had at least 7 oil changes and used 38.5 quarts of oil (provided 5,000 mile intervals and the capacity of the engine’s lubrication system, which is 5.5 quarts). You’ve also burned through roughly 99 full tanks of gas (provided an average mpg of 27.5 and the size of the tank, which holds 13.5 gallons). So much petroleum use! Not to mention you’ve spent roughly $3,000 on fuel costs (at a cost of about $30 per fill-up, taking into consideration the size of the tank and the national average cost of fuel, which is $2.28 a gallon right now) and about $350 on oil changes alone (provided a cost of $49.95 per change, which is what Mopar service departments have charged me personally in the past).

    A Tesla costs a little over $10 to charge up completely, if you were wondering. The extended range models have a range of 310 miles. I’ll be fair and say that is a short distance less than your little four-wheel drive Fiat. But, even if the Tesla owner has to charge up about 119 times to your 99 fill-ups in a 37,000 mile period, he’s still spending less than half on electricity than the $3,000 you spend on fuel. Oh, and he’s never spent one red cent on oil because Teslas lack that need.

    NOW, with that all said, many a Tesla buyer/owner has spent upwards of $100,000 and never encountered a single issue you’ve mentioned. Nice to hear you’re working with your limited budget, though! That’s a good thing, really, considering how much money you’re spending on petroleum and petroleum-based products. :)

    Edited by Blake Noble
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    20 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    🤔 Did you finally move out too Blu? Last I thought you still lived with your mom.

    Not that you should have a clue about my living arrangements, but I have not lived with her since I was 14.

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    1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

    Not that you should have a clue about my living arrangements, but I have not lived with her since I was 14.

    I was 30. 

    I never once washed my own clothes...well, I went to Greece for vacation couple of times for a couple of months or so without my parents, so there is that.  But on a whole, from mommy to straight to wife, I have never washed my own clothes!!!

    Damn proud of that!  

    Related image

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    JACKET, LISTEN UP!  My Fiat takes synthetic oil.  I have never paid that much for an oil change.  Maybe your Mopar dealer saw a sucker coming?  Also your other approximations, or ASSumptions, are wrong-o.  "Many" a Tesla owner could  = 3, depending on which anecdotal formula you are adhering to at this juncture.  And if you count the cost of time, how much time does it take to recharge a Tesla 119 times?  A LOT.  How much time does it take to pump about 12 gallons of gas 99 times (IF your ASSumption were correct)?  A LOT LESS.  BTW, what are you driving these days?  Last I knew, you were driving a V6 Challenger or something, and before that, a broke-ass old basket case Cherokee.  You were a young dreamer.  Still living at home?

    Wait... hold up. Hold up a moment there. Your Jeepiat uses a synthetic motor oil, OK sure. But do you think that synthetic motor oils are somehow totally completely free of petroleum and fossil fuels?

    Because, if so, have I got some news for you!

    Most synthetic motor oils, like conventional oils, are still derived from crude oil. And that's no assumption, either. Per Mobil Oil's own website:

    Quote

    Conventional and synthetic oils begin in the ground.

    Conventional and synthetic oils both "begin in the ground," in other words, as crude petroleum. The known exception to the rule would be Pennzoil's synthetic oils (branded as Pennzoil Platinum), which instead begin in the ground as natural gas. But you don't have to take my word on that. I'll let the folks who run NAPA Auto Parts's website lay some of their good-old know-how on ya:

    Quote

    Full synthetic, or 100 percent synthetic oils, are usually extracted from crude oil or a byproduct of the same. In the case of Pennzoil, they have figured out how extract synthetic oil from natural gas.

    Like petroleum, natural gas, as I'm sure you already knew, is a fossil fuel. The U.S. Energy Information Administration's own website states:

    Quote

    Natural gas is a fossil energy source that formed deep beneath the earth's surface.

    Of course, once again, a Tesla does not use or require fossil fuels — petroleum, natural gas, etc. — to operate. So, before you go switching your motor oil to Pennzoil Platinum in a valiant effort to prove me wrong, the point still stands that you're still spending more on gas and oil changes than the Tesla driver is spending using the grid to recharge his car. He's coming out ahead there and you aren't. Simple fact.

    Moving on, depending on the model, it takes 60 to 75 minutes — or one hour to one hour and fifteen minutes — to recharge a Tesla to 100 percent at a Tesla charging station. I would think the charging station is somewhat analogous to a gasoline-powered car stopping at a filling station. (From here on out, feel free to Google this post to death fact checking it because I'm only going to spoon-feed quotes and links sparingly.) And, sure, OK, it takes about 5 minutes or so, max, to completely refuel an average gasoline-powered car from empty. But that's just the time it takes to refuel, i.e. getting the gas out of the pump and into your tank.

    If, to pay for the fuel, you have to stand in line for 5 to 10 minutes behind someone who's also standing behind some moron trying to use SNAP benefits to buy a carton of cigarettes, that time suddenly grows from 5 to about 10. If you spend any modicum of time in the bathroom, add on another 5 to 10 minutes. If you stop to browse the soda pop coolers and potato chip racks, there's another 5 to 10 minutes tacked on. If you forgo the snacks and instead wander into the Wendy's next door, that wait goes up a little more. Get the point? You're choosing to conveniently ignore the convenience store part of the equation when it comes to stopping at a gas station.

    And those convenience stores, like all retail chains, are constantly figuring out ways to get you to come inside and buy something. I mean you don't think they're actually making substantial money on that gas, do you? And, if their own studies are to be believed, foot traffic is all the time increasing.

    And sure, you can pay at the pump and avoid going inside. But that isn't always the case 100 percent of the time. And, personally, I always choose to go inside or to the cashier to avoid any potential holds or fees on my card, and to decrease the chance of someone stealing my card information by manipulating the card reader on the pump. 

    Also, I should mention the obvious that you can choose to recharge a Tesla while you're doing jack-all sleeping in bed at night. See, what a smart Tesla owner might choose to do is recharge the car to 100 percent or "full" as they sleep and then choose to "top" the battery off at at charging station or point once they reach a certain percentage. This is like leaving home with a full tank and choosing to add some gas once you reach a quarter tank or a half a tank. I mean, you don't refuel when you get totally bone-dry on gas, do you? Why should an electric car be any different in this regard? Answer: It isn't. So that hour wait time from earlier? That decreases substantially.

    Also, I could choose to stretch the post out even more and start doing some math on the time it takes to earn one gallon of gas, which would average you 27.5 miles of range in your Fiat, versus the time it takes the Tesla driver to earn the amount of charge needed to drive the same distance. I have a hunch you'd loose there, too. But, at this point, this post is far too long, too factual and too controlled to be a rebuttal to a post where someone responded to maths and facts by basically resorting to calling the poster a $h!ty millennial.

    Edited by Blake Noble
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    Jeepiat? What is that? Sounds tasty. Something exotic. On second thoughts exotics are never reliable...

     

    Is that what those bozo teens called the Tide Pods that they ate like fruit?

     

    Anyways dammit @oldshurst442.

    why. Why do I hate even the idea of my parents helping me with anything....yet you calmly let your mom do your laundry like it’s no issue. I can't bring myself to have my mom cook for me even... And I'm not even 25 yet...btw I also live on my own.

    However I am a basement dweller basket of deplorables, my name is Suaviloquent and I approve this message.

    Paid for by OmniOrbus SuperModPac. 

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    26 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

    Jeepiat? What is that? Sounds tasty. Something exotic. On second thoughts exotics are never reliable...

     

    Is that what those bozo teens called the Tide Pods that they ate like fruit?

     

    Anyways dammit @oldshurst442.

    why. Why do I hate even the idea of my parents helping me with anything....yet you calmly let your mom do your laundry like it’s no issue. I can't bring myself to have my mom cook for me even... And I'm not even 25 yet...

     

    Why?

    Call it laziness. Call it my right as an only child.  Im am (was) her apple of her eye after all.

    Call it whatever you want, its my privilege as a Greek boy, an only child Greek boy, to be spoiled like that by his mom. 

    *SHRUGS*   C'est la vie my good friend.  

     

    With my wife? She simply does NOT trust me with anything that has to do with HER house. Notice I said HER house?  That is because its HER house and she does with it as she pleases. And she does not trust me to do anything around the house in fear that I will just screw things up. 

    I do fix things around the house, but I am scrutinized and inspected closely by her. I have to pass her standards or I have to redo it or pay a professional to do the repair job properly. 

    Most of time I do good.   

    And if, knock on wood, our marriage goes south, well, its HER house if you catch my drift....

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Well I defended myself.  Yes, I drive an Italian-American vehicle, partly engineered by a company that's been building vehicles since the 19th century.  Why should I have to stay quiet when somebody swoops in and disparages it?  The opponent in this case doesn't even own a Tesla, so it is not like I made it personal in the first place.  I simply responded, with cap guns blazing, when it was turned personally toward me.  I think Booyah is the only poster here that actually has a Tesla in the family, and this time, he only sat back and subtly cheered Jacket on, he didn't join the fray.  So far.

    Anyway I'm not easily distracted by Mike & Ike (the candy) or the soda fountain.  I pay at the pump and I'm on my way down the road, with no special planning on my part if I am away from home.  I can stop and spend five minutes on any street corner in America and replenish my Jeepiat.  Not a care in the world.

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    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    Why should I have to stay quiet when somebody swoops in and disparages it?

    1. Chryco. Nearly went bankrupt (for whatever reason in the late 70s to early 80s. I was too young to know anything about that and now,  dont really care about the reasons why)  and got a government loan and they did the best of what they could with it and built crappy K-Cars and minivans to survive and pay back their loans...

    a) Telsa had nothing to do with disparaging Chryco with that K-car and minivan thing nor with the near bankruptcy...

    b) Chryco, to survive, invented a niche that is still doing good for them, but exciting for car enthusiasts it is not.  OK, they merged with Mitsubishi at about that same same time and bought Lamborghini too and created some of the planet's most coolest and exciting cars. Ill give them that. But something happened and then they merged with another company and got their soul sucked right out. 

    Tesla had no part in disparaging Chryco. with that either...

     

    2. Chryco. DID go bankrupt in the mid 2000s.

    Tesla did no disparaging thing to Chryco.  THAT would be Mercedes Benz. 

     

    3. Fiat bought the company as a result. And while Auburn engineers have done wonders with pick-up trucks and muscle cars, Fiat is another that COULD be blamed for disparaging Chryco.  NOT Tesla.

     

    4. Tesla...is an AMERICAN (call it car company, call it a tech company, call it crap if you wanna) company that has created a specific want and need for something that is quite different than what we are use to. 

    THAT is not disparaging Chryco. That is just great business savvy.  Tesla does what it does, nearly as well as Chryco who has been engineering and manufacturing and producing cars since, like YOU put it, since the 19th century.

    Not too bad for a company that has been doing that since, the 21st century. 

    THAT is not disparaging Chryco. 

    If people, want to buy Tesla vehicles then who are YOU to want to deny Tesla? 

    a) You COULD still buy Chryco. vehicles if you want to.  Barring they dont go bankrupt for a 3rd time. 

    Again, nothing to do with Tesla my good friend....Plymouth  got canned and Paypal barely existed, let alone Tesla...

    b) 

     

     

    Nothing to do with Tesla either.

     

    YOU may not think that there is a market for EVs. But Tesla has sold at least 600 000 EVs so far in their existence.  And a smaller, less expensive CUV based on the Model 3 is just about to be revealed. You could chalk up another at least 300 000-400 000 pre-orders for that one as well...

    THAT is not disparaging Chryco...that is just business. 

    And YOU as freedom fighting, open market, free market loving,  buy the hell what you want,  American...well...you gots to LOVE that entrepreneurial spirit that Tesla has! 

    THAT is not disparaging Chryco...that is just good business!!! 

     

    PS: And ummmmm....NOTHING QUIET ABOUT WHAT TESLA DOES!!!  ITS LOUD AND PROUD AND TAKING ALL THE OLD GUARD BY STORM!!!  And the BEST thing about that?  Is that the WHOLE world LOVES Tesla! 

    There are some places on the planet that STILL do NOT know 19th century American car brands...but they do know about Telsa! 

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Chrysler never 'merged with Mitsubishi', but they had an engineering partnership for engines and platforms over several decades.    But agreed about Tesla--they are an independent American tech company/auto maker and I hope they remain independent.   Merging/being acquired by another automaker would kill what is unique about them, I think (though I could see them subcontracting the manufacturing to outside vendors for scale). 

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    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I can stop and spend five minutes on any street corner in America and replenish my Jeepiat.  Not a care in the world.

    But a Tesla owner, does not stop at all...as he charges at HOME!!! For the most part!!! 

    But YOU can NEVER do that. Fill up at home! 

    My partner, daily drives his Model S. There is NO charging station on the route he takes from his house to our restaurant. There is NO charging station at our restaurant either.  He just uses his supercharger that he has installed at home... 

    And he has done that for the last 4 years...

    Oh...he has taken it for trips. Family trips to wherever he has gone with his Model S. OK...he had to stop and take time to recharge his EV...

    But as far as daily driving it back and from home to work...NEVER! 

    He beats you and I in THAT department.  (As he does NOT detour away from his regular route to gas up) That part of his life (to visit a gasoline station every other day) is gone forever...

     

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    6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    The charge at home can work for some, but for people without their own garage that would be a problem.

    Fair enough.  Maybe a Model 3 owner (and a Chevroler Bolt, Nissan Leaf owner etc.) rents an apartment in the city somewhere and they park on the streets. 

    But a Model S and Model X owner that are 100 000 dollar cars,  the chances are they own (or rent) property that would probably have a garage where a charge station could be installed for use.   If no garage, at least on the premises there is a parking lot and there would be a place for charge stations for the people to charge their EVs.  

    Bottom line.

    Everybody's situation is different.

    We cant discuss and argue all the negatives just to cherry pick to prove a point. 

    The thing is, an EV owner, if he is blessed with a living quarters that could house a charging station for his own personal use and has access to it 100% at all times whenever he wants it, then moot point to what Blu is trying to suggest.

    And Blu, he is an owner of a house, n'est-ce pas?   

    He shouldnt even be using that as a negative that he uses the gas station every other day for 5 minutes and does not wait in line to charge a Tesla for hours JUST because he hates EVs...

    Because for him, if he chose to buy a cute little Chevy Bolt or a very enthusiast Tesla Model S or 3, he wouldnt have to "gas up" at a charge station for daily driving duties...

    Excuses are just that. Excuses. One could camouflage the hatred excuses and call it "their opinion", but its false to do so that way. 

    Ill accept him just sticking to I HATE EVs than him trying to mask his hatred for EVs with falsehoods!!!

    That there is the difference why he continues to get flak for his nonacceptance for EVs. His skewing of the facts and the spread of falsehoods...

     

     

     

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    Out of curiosity, I checked the website of the apartment complex I lived in in Colorado Springs in the late 90s where I lived after grad school when at my first corporate job...they now have EV charging stations on site.   That was a neat place, I had a heated garage w/ my apartment....  (random trivia--I managed to damage the garage door twice while living there--backed through the closed garage door w/ my Bronco, and caught it on the ski racks on my first JGC while it was going up..)

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Or homes with no driveways. Or apartment dwellers.

    That is still cherry picking a very non-existent  problem for SOME EV buyers/owners.

    While that dilemma DOES exist, it aint THE problem for EV ownership. 

    Because there ARE solutions out there for THAT kind of problem

    https://www.fastcompany.com/3064354/this-startup-makes-it-easier-to-charge-electric-cars-in-apartment-buildings

    https://www.chargepoint.com/en-ca/businesses/apartments-and-condos/

    https://flo.ca/business/multi-unit-residential-buildings

     

    resistance to change...

    because even with THAT in mind: "Or homes with no driveways. Or apartment dwellers."

    There are no problems, just solutions...

    Granted, in some cases the solutions may be harder to get, or even impossible, but still...cherry picking...

     

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    There are solutions if owners are willing to pay for them. Not every apartment building owner will do this, and the majority have not as yet. There are still numerous urban neighborhoods where not having a driveway is commonplace- I'll be working on one such home later today. In fact, it's a series of 6 connected units- none of which have a driveway; all on-street parking.
    While I live in a private home, the nearest non-Tesla charger to my house is 30 mins away. Less than a mile away is a large condo village: 83 buildings, The one I worked in last Dec was 12 units. That's about 1000 condos with no driveways & no garages. Believe me; knowing that condo village, the Association is not going to be installing EV chargers anytime in the near future.

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