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    William Maley

    2020 Toyota Supra Finally is Revealed Sans Camo

      Finally, we get to see the actual car!

    It has been a long time coming, but finally, we have gotten our first look at the upcoming 2020 Toyota Supra. The SupraMKV forums obtained a photo of the upcoming sports car in a transporter with most of the car cover removed from it.

    Comparing this photo with the FT-1 concept from a few years back, Toyota's designers toned down the front end. The nose isn't as pointy and the bumper has three large intakes - not two like the concept. It also appears the bubble roof has carried over onto the production model. 

    As we reported back in June, the Supra will come with two engines from BMW; the 2.0L turbo-four (265 horsepower) and 3.0L twin-turbo inline-six (335 horsepower). This will be paired with an eight-speed automatic.

    Toyota will be revealing the Supra next month at the Detroit Auto Show. In the meantime, we have pictures of the FT-1 Concept, a camouflaged Supra prototype, and the production model for your perusal.

    Source: SupraMKV.com
    Pic Credit: SupraMKV.com

    New-2020-Toyota-Supra-Leak.jpg

    TOYOTA_FT1_Exterior_010.jpg

    Supra-A90-8hr.jpg

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    It has a bit of a Mazda RX-8 look to it.  I am not impressed by this car because I know it will be over priced.  You can get a 3-series with these engines for $40k on the 4 cylinder and $50k on the six cylinder and the 3-Series is a much more luxurious car.  They’ll probably price the Supra in the same territory when it should be priced like a Mustang.

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    4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    But you LOVE overpriced cars.

    If the market will bear it it isn't over priced. That two million dollar Hemi Cuda convertible at Barrett Jackson has reached the same market equilibrium pricing.

    6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    But you LOVE overpriced cars.

    I love pre war Bentlys and ratty RX 7s.  One is worth a Kings ransom and one is worth a Burger King meal combo. Both have merit.

    3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    It has a bit of a Mazda RX-8 look to it.  I am not impressed by this car because I know it will be over priced.  You can get a 3-series with these engines for $40k on the 4 cylinder and $50k on the six cylinder and the 3-Series is a much more luxurious car.  They’ll probably price the Supra in the same territory when it should be priced like a Mustang.

    So what...it is a cool car.

    • Haha 1
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    42 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    But you LOVE overpriced cars.

    No I don't, I like good cars.  I doubt the Supra is all that fast compared to what they will charge for it.  Maybe I am wrong but I feel like they will over price it.  The Z4 has 255 hp for $50k, so that is the base Supra engine, they'll probably want $40k for that.  The I-6 makes 382 hp in the BMW Z4 for $65k, I wouldn't be surprised if that is detuned in the Supra, even if the same, they'll want $55k for that car. 

    We'll see when the final car comes out and they price it, but I feel like Toyota will want Lexus money for this thing.  And those few hard core fans will buy it, and in 4 years they'll kill it due to poor sales.

    46 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

     

    So what...it is a cool car.

    It won't be cool when a 255 hp Supra costs the same as a 420 hp V8 Mustang.  Nor will it be cool when an inline 6 Supra costs as much as a C43 AMG coupe.  

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    3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    No I don't, I like good cars.  I doubt the Supra is all that fast compared to what they will charge for it.  Maybe I am wrong but I feel like they will over price it.  The Z4 has 255 hp for $50k, so that is the base Supra engine, they'll probably want $40k for that.  The I-6 makes 382 hp in the BMW Z4 for $65k, I wouldn't be surprised if that is detuned in the Supra, even if the same, they'll want $55k for that car. 

    We'll see when the final car comes out and they price it, but I feel like Toyota will want Lexus money for this thing.  And those few hard core fans will buy it, and in 4 years they'll kill it due to poor sales.

    Nothing saying that Toyota does not have a superior Tuned performance motor that gives more than what BMW is offering due to the nature of this performance car.

    It could be a $65K sports car with 450 or 500 HP in that I6. Remember very easy to take the base motor and change out the Turbo's as you know.

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    Just now, dfelt said:

    Nothing saying that Toyota does not have a superior Tuned performance motor that gives more than what BMW is offering due to the nature of this performance car.

    It could be a $65K sports car with 450 or 500 HP in that I6. Remember very easy to take the base motor and change out the Turbo's as you know.

    No way will BMW let them offer more horsepower than they do.  That engine will most likely be a direct rip from the M340i and Z4 40i.  The 0-60 estimate for the Supra is 4.5 seconds with the 6 cylinder.

    And it won't have 400 or 500 hp because Toyota/Lexus don't do horsepower and torque.  Their most powerful sports car the LC500 has 471 hp and 398 lb-ft of torque. These guys are not capable of doing a performance car, that is why BMW made it for them, and BMW is going to give them exactly what is under the Z4's sheetmetal with a cheaper interior.  And BMW can't beat Porsche or AMG at anything, so how will this Supra beat a Corvette, because it going to cost base Corvette or Camaro ZL1 money.  

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    d59f0264-mercedes-amg-glc-63-s-4matic-nu

    ☝️ This SUV gets round the Nurburgring faster than this 👇:

    2018-BMW-M2-Competition-front.jpg

    And that is the M2 Competition which is sooped up above what the Z4/Supra have.  If the Supra loses to an SUV on the Nurburgring, I have a hard time getting excited about it as an awesome sports car.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    No way will BMW let them offer more horsepower than they do.  That engine will most likely be a direct rip from the M340i and Z4 40i.  The 0-60 estimate for the Supra is 4.5 seconds with the 6 cylinder.

    And it won't have 400 or 500 hp because Toyota/Lexus don't do horsepower and torque.  Their most powerful sports car the LC500 has 471 hp and 398 lb-ft of torque. These guys are not capable of doing a performance car, that is why BMW made it for them, and BMW is going to give them exactly what is under the Z4's sheetmetal with a cheaper interior.  And BMW can't beat Porsche or AMG at anything, so how will this Supra beat a Corvette, because it going to cost base Corvette or Camaro ZL1 money.  

    Yet Toyota has come out saying they need to take more risk and get more aggresive as we have seen in their newer body style's and offering TRD on car lines they never did before. So who says that after making an agreement with BMW for the bones to build the Super that they cannot go with bigger turbo's, etc. to dial it in. 

    Ya never know, till they release detailed info, it is all speculation. 

    There is always a bigger bat, bigger man, etc. that does knock the king of his thrown. Ya just never know when it will show up.

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    2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Wonder how a stock B59 would do on the ring?

    Horrible, of course. Built to float.

    marshmellow.png

    Watching the 'NASCAR car on Nurburgring' linked elsewhere and it's interesting- my B-59 (decidedly not stock) shares similar specs, it'll be heavier by a lot/will have more HP/TRQ, but the ladder bars/Panhard bar, posi, adjustable coil overs and 315/60-15 drag radials should keep it planted pretty well. Has lowered HD coils up front (don't have the front shocks yet), quicker steering, plus the body shell was reinforced. It would be interesting to take it on a track, I'd do that.

    Edited by balthazar
    • Haha 2
    • Upvote 1
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    15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Horrible, of course. Built to float.

    marshmellow.png

    Cornering at 25 mph?  Passengers would be screaming in terror sliding across the bench seats...I would guess the one you are building will corner much better..

     

    Back on topic---

    The nose of the new Supra seems inspired by F1 car nose cones and air dams from a few years ago, seems dated now considering Toyota is no longer in F1.

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Horrible, of course. Built to float.

    marshmellow.png

    Watching the 'NASCAR car on Nurburgring' linked elsewhere and it's interesting- my B-59 (decidedly not stock) shares similar specs, it'll be heavier by a lot/will have more HP/TRQ, but the ladder bars/Panhard bar, posi, adjustable coil overs and 315/60-15 drag radials should keep it planted pretty well. Has lowered HD coils up front (don't have the front shocks yet), quicker steering, plus the body shell was reinforced. It would be interesting to take it on a track, I'd do that.

    I would hate to see you stuff it into a wall on track, bad things happen to race cars on track.

    One of the most painful moments from my days as a flagger at Mid Ohio, which I discussed here several years ago...was watching a vintage Shelby Mustang and one of the Monte Carlo SS's that Dale Earnhardt drove to his championship come together hard and go into a retaining wall.  Both cars were rebuilt....but that was painful to watch.

    Not that you lack chops as a driver per se.

    On the other hand, tired of performance cars that only get driven to car shows.

    11 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Cornering at 25 mph?  Passengers would be screaming in terror sliding across the bench seats...I would guess the one you are building will corner much better..

     

    Back on topic---

    The nose of the new Supra seems inspired by F1 car nose cones and air dams from a few years ago, seems dated now considering Toyota is no longer in F1.

    It still looks better than most (if not all) modern cars though.

    Back to the Supra, I like it. Maybe not absolute love or lust, but like.

    Giving myself the freedom to like what I like is making me feel better as an enthusiast.  I am a small sporty car kind of a guy, even though I like vintage and vintage Muscle. Civic Si/R/GTI/WRX/BRZ/Cooper S/ST/RS kind of a guy when it comes to new cars.

    Cars like the 370Z and the Supra have enough of that DNA to make me happy.

     

    Edited to add...both Civic Type R and Golf R under the R label, please.

    9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    d59f0264-mercedes-amg-glc-63-s-4matic-nu

    ☝️ This SUV gets round the Nurburgring faster than this 👇:

    2018-BMW-M2-Competition-front.jpg

    And that is the M2 Competition which is sooped up above what the Z4/Supra have.  If the Supra loses to an SUV on the Nurburgring, I have a hard time getting excited about it as an awesome sports car.

    See...for me here the real win is styling. And I actually find myself liking the Benz more than the BMW. Plus I trust Benz engineering more than I do BMW.  So I would upvote the Benz of the two, but not strictly on performance.

    Edited by A Horse With No Name
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    33 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Back on topic---

    The nose of the new Supra seems inspired by F1 car nose cones and air dams from a few years ago, seems dated now considering Toyota is no longer in F1.

    I wish Toyota was in Formula 1 so Mercedes could beat them.  😃  And it would be nice to have another team with big money funding in there.

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    8 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Yet Toyota has come out saying they need to take more risk and get more aggresive as we have seen in their newer body style's and offering TRD on car lines they never did before. So who says that after making an agreement with BMW for the bones to build the Super that they cannot go with bigger turbo's, etc. to dial it in. 

    Ya never know, till they release detailed info, it is all speculation. 

    There is always a bigger bat, bigger man, etc. that does knock the king of his thrown. Ya just never know when it will show up.

    But the TRD cars have no power upgrade, and BMW is not going to let Toyota modify their engine.  Toyota would have to use their own engine, and the LS500's turbo V6 is the only thing they could use and who knows if it even fits.  Plus that would add even more manufacturing cost, because I'd assume those Lexus engines are made in Japan, and it would have to be shipped to Germany or wherever the Supra and Z4 are built.

    I agree that it is all speculation.  But my prediction is a 382 hp car for $65,000.  Which is Corvette, Camaro ZL1 or Shelby GT350 type money.  And will the Supra be better than those cars?   Or better than a BMW 4-series or C43 AMG coupe?

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    • By William Maley
      Considering the number of Lexus RC coupes I have driven over the years, there has been a significant hole - the V8 RC F. Whenever I have asked for one, the vehicle either wasn't in the press fleet or someone else was driving it during the dates I had available. But I was able to finally get my hands on one for a week in early fall. It was good timing as I was feeling the effects of being home for the past six months due to COVID-19. Maybe this coupe could give me a bit of joy.
      The RC F is not a shrinking violet. From its bright yellow paint, blacked-out 20-inch wheels, and optional carbon fiber package that includes a retractable rear spoiler, this coupe is very brash and proud of it. I'll admit that I was worried about scraping or cracking the carbon fiber front splitter if I took a steep entrance ramp or bump a bit too aggressively. It looks cool on the car, but the existential dread of an expensive repair bill does sour the appeal.  Not much changes on the inside for the RC F except for carbon fiber trim and a set of racing-style seats. Usually, I have a lot of trepidation on this type of seat because I don't fully fit in due to my slightly wide shoulders. But the seats conformed to my body within a day or so and I found them to offer the balance of support during hard-driving, and comfort for day-to-day - something I find to be hit and miss on seats from other automakers. Lexus Enform is still a frustrating infotainment system to use on daily basis. With a touchy control pad, it is easy to find yourself changing the song or end up in a different section of the system. This means you need to pay close attention to any change being made, which becomes a distraction hazard. Apple CarPlay is standard and does make using the system a bit more bearable. But I do wish Lexus would roll out their touchscreen system which makes it much more intuitive. Though, that likely will not come until a redesign, possibly in the next year or two. The main event for the RC F is under the hood. A 5.0L V8 engine with 467 horsepower and 389 pound-feet of torque - figures that slightly pale when compared to the BMW M4 or Mercedes-AMG C63. This is paired with an eight-speed automatic which routes the power to the rear wheels. The initial acceleration is a slight disappointment as the throttle response feels a bit sleepy. I'm not sure if this was due to improve fuel economy or throttle feel higher in the rev band. Thankfully, this sleepiness goes away as the car climbs up in speed and the V8 reveals its party trick. The noise that comes out of this engine sounds like a muscle car and you find yourself stepping the accelerator to enjoy it. Not much to say about the eight-speed automatic. It goes about its business smoothly and quickly. Fuel economy was surprising in the least, as I got an average of 18 mpg in mostly city and suburb driving. A set of adaptive dampers comes standard for the RC-F and gives it a split personality. Turn the drive mode knob to Sport+ and the dampers tighten up to make the coupe feel more agile than its weight of 4,017 pounds would suggest. Also helping in the handling are a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S summer tires, providing tenacious grip. But switch the drive mode into normal and RC F becomes a very comfortable and refined grand tourer. Ride quality is very good with only a few bumps making their way inside. A minimal amount of road and wind noise is present. One area where the RC F holds a distinct advantage over the completion is the base price of $65,925 - undercutting most by a few grand. The danger is going through the option list and deciding to go crazy, which explains the as-tested price of $89,654. You can chop off over $11,000 by skipping the Performance package which brings all of the carbon fiber bits. The RC F lacks the outright performance as those from Germany. But I'm willing to overlook it because sometimes you want a car that just shouts to the world and the RC F does that very well. During my week, I found myself reveling in the engine and the grand touring characteristics of the suspension. It brought me the joy which sometimes is all you need a car to do. Disclaimer: Lexus Provided the RC F, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Lexus
      Model: RC F
      Trim: -
      Engine: 5.0L DOHC 32-Valve V8
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Rear-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 467 @ 7,100
      Torque @ RPM: 389 @ 4,800 - 5,600
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 16/24/19
      Curb Weight: 3,958 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Tahara, Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $64,900
      As Tested Price: $89,654 (Includes $1,025.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Performance Package - $11,400.00
      Premium Package - $5,350.00
      Navigation System w/Mark Levinson Audio - $2,725.00
      Torque Vectoring Differential - $1,250.00
      Premium Triple Beam LED Headlamps - $1,160.00
      Flare Yellow Premium Paint - $595.00
      Intuitive Parking Assist - $500.00
      Illuminated Door Sills - $449.00
      Orange Metallic Brembo Brake Calipers - $300.00
    • By William Maley
      The 86's exterior has undergone some significant changes. The most apparent is the front where the front bumper has been swapped to give the coupe a slightly more aggressive look. There are also new headlights with the "86" logo seen on the outside edge. These changes, along with a rear wing really help the 86 still look quite fresh. A feat when you take into consideration that this car, along with its sister, the Subaru BRZ has been around for eight years. The interior boasts a new steering wheel, updated instrument cluster with a color trip computer; and a seven-inch touchscreen radio featuring Apple CarPlay and Android Auto compatibility.  Trying to find a comfortable position the 86 took longer than I expected due to the limited amount of adjustments on offer. The sport seats provide excellent bolstering to hold you in during enthusiastic driving but falter in terms of comfort when it comes to long drives. As for the back seat, I would only recommend it for either very small kids or extra storage space. We come to the key weak point of the 86, the engine. It is the 2.0L Flat-Four from Subaru which produces 205 horsepower and 156 pound-feet of torque when equipped with the six-speed manual - figures drop by five when equipped with the automatic. Not much has changed in the performance department. At low speeds, the 86 goes along merrily. But then the power band falls off a cliff and you're left wondering when it will come back.  It doesn't help that the engine note of the 2.0L sounds like a bucket of bolts dumped into a dryer. This doesn't encourage wanting to climb higher in the rev band and giving the illusion of going faster - something Mazda does quite well with the MX-5 Miata. On my test car, an optional TRD exhaust was fitted and it somehow makes the noise worse. It sounded like a group of cats fighting one another to get that prime spot in the box from an Amazon delivery. The manual transmission does not like being shifted quickly as it becomes slightly stiff and bulky. Go slowly and the gear lever responds with a smooth and positive feel. An option that was ticked on this vehicle was the TRD handling package which adds a set of SACHS dampers. The SACHS do make an improvement in terms of body control as the 86 doesn't really exhibit any sort of roll. What you get a vehicle that is fun to toss in the corners. Helping out is the steering that responds quickly and provides a decent feel. But there is a downside to the TRD Handling package and that is the ride quality. I found the FR-S to be quite stiff and transmit most bumps and road imperfections. This package only increases the frequency and impact them. I would highly recommend driving a standard 86 against one with the Handling Pack to see which one you would prefer. The 86 GT starts at $30,115 and my tester with the two TRD options and some other items stickers at $34,783. If you drop the TRD options, then it becomes slightly better at just under $32,000.  Who is the 86 for? The obvious answer to this is someone who wants something fun to drive but doesn't have that much to spend. Of course, there are other options that offer more performance, the 86 shines on a winding road. But as someone pointed out in our interactive review, the 86 is a good option for someone who wants a blank canvas. This and the BRZ have a large aftermarket which means an owner can build their coupe to their desires. Want to upgrade the suspension and brakes? There are parts available. Feel like dropping in a larger engine? That is possible. It's a blank canvas ready for someone to make it their own. Disclaimer: Toyota Provided the 86, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: 86
      Trim: GT
      Engine: 2.0L DOHC D-4S 16-Valve Flat-Four
      Driveline: Six-Speed Manual, Rear-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 205 @ 7,000
      Torque @ RPM: 156 @ 6,400
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 21/28/24
      Curb Weight: 2,817 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Ota, Gumma, Japan
      Base Price: $30,115
      As Tested Price: $34,783 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      TRD Handling Package - $1,270.00
      TRD Exhaust System - $1,100.00
      TRD Sway Bar - $550.00
      Special Color - $425.00
      Center Armrest - $199.00
      All-Weather Floor Mats - $169.00

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