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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Ask Me Anything: 2020 Lexus UX 200 F-Sport

      ..Lexus' smallest crossover comes in for a review and awaits your questions..

    This week marks my first review vehicle for 2020 - the Lexus UX 200 F-Sport. This one comes equipped with such items as F-Sport exterior package, 18-inch wheels, Lexus Enform with Apple CarPlay  compatibility;  Wi-Fi connectivity, and a 10-way power driver's seat. Options on this vehicle include blind spot monitoring, heated front seats, heated steering wheel, heads-up display, navigation, and a windhield de-icer - the last one being quite important as we had an ice storm roll through last night.

    Power comes from a 2.0L DOHC four-cylinder with 169 horsepower. This is likely the same engine I had in my 2019 Toyota Corolla SE hatchback I reviewed last month. This is paired with a CVT and front-wheel drive. Disappointingly, Lexus isn't offering all-wheel drive on the UX 200. To get that, you need to climb up the UX 250h. 

    For the day and a half I had the UX, I found to be quite nippy around town. Though on the freeway, the engine becomes quite buzzy and you do need to step on it to get some forward momentum. It is also surprising how maneuverable the vehicle is. I was able to snatch a narrow parking space at a popular restaurant with no issue.

    The price-tag on this tester is $42,285 with destination. This surprised me considering how much stuff this vehicle is equipped with.

    So while I put some more miles on and grab some photos, drop off any questions you have for Lexus' smallest crossover.

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    WOW, Such an ugly ass.

    I would love to know how you feel it compares to other luxury especially the XT4.

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    $42k for a 2.0 4cyl, FWD and CVT....beyond mediocre..that's the kind of hardware I'd expect in a $20k econobox....

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    Amazing how GM gets kicked in the head for alleged rebadge jobs by some folks yet this re-skinned RAV4 doesn't even register a blip by those same folks. I'm with ccap on this one and will that 169HP on ANY luxury brand is downright criminal. 

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    7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Amazing how GM gets kicked in the head for alleged rebadge jobs by some folks yet this re-skinned RAV4 doesn't even register a blip by those same folks. I'm with ccap on this one and will that 169HP on ANY luxury brand is downright criminal. 

    As far as domestic competition, the Cadillac XT4 has a 2.0 4 with 237hp, and a 9-spd auto, and the Lincoln Corsair 2.0 is 250hp w/ an 8-spd auto.   Lexus definitely comes up short. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    19 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    As far as domestic competition, the Cadillac XT4 has a 2.0 4 with 237hp, and a 9-spd auto, and the Lincoln Corsair 2.0 is 250hp w/ an 8-spd auto.   Lexus definitely comes up short. 

    You can also get a 2.3T with 295hp and a plug-in hybrid with 25 miles of EV range and 266hp in the Corsair.

     

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    12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    You can also get a 2.3T with 295hp and a plug-in hybrid with 25 miles of EV range and 266hp in the Corsair.

     

    Saw that..was just comparing the 2.0 versions.

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    20 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    How does it compare to the Cadillac XT4?

     

    15 hours ago, dfelt said:

    WOW, Such an ugly ass.

    I would love to know how you feel it compares to other luxury especially the XT4.

    I haven't spent any time behind the wheel of the XT4, so I can only express what it is like to sit in it. The XT4 has a slightly larger back seat than the UX, especially in legroom. I was getting photos of the interior yesterday and my knees were in the back of the front passenger seat. I also would say the infotainment system is better because you don't have to use that stupid touchpad controller.

    But I think the UX has a nicer interior both in terms of design and material quality. I also like the looks the UX better.

    For what I have been reading, the XT4 does have a slightly more uncomfortable ride, along with a fair amount of road noise. Also a number of features such as adaptive cruise control are optional on the XT4.

    The closest vehicle I have driven to the UX is the XC40 I drove last year. I think the Volvo is more luxurious, slightly better looking, and offers better performance. But the UX feels more lively in terms of handling and is more maneuverable in tight spaces.

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    8 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    Good lord... Nothing with a luxury brand should have ANYTHING with 169hp. 

    Man you should avoid going to Europe then where there a number of luxury vehicles with similar outputs to this.

     

    1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

    Amazing how GM gets kicked in the head for alleged rebadge jobs by some folks yet this re-skinned RAV4 doesn't even register a blip by those same folks. I'm with ccap on this one and will that 169HP on ANY luxury brand is downright criminal. 

    I mean we could say the same thing with BMW and the X1 - shared architecture with the MINI or the Cadillac XT4 which shares the same E2XX as the outgoing Buick Regal and Chevrolet Malibu. Just because it shares a platform with the RAV4 and the CH-R, doesn't mean it feels or drives cheap. That platform happens to be one my favorites as it how blends comfort and sport.

    4 hours ago, USA-1 said:

    Is it kick start? :D

    Possibly in other markets 😛

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    14 minutes ago, William Maley said:

    Man you should avoid going to Europe then where there a number of luxury vehicles with similar outputs to this.

    In all fairness, that would be a different market and the rules been played with are waaaaay different than what rules we play with. 

    And  moreso to it than that our luxury rules are pretty much bigger is better, which not only lends itself to mean bigger engines and more power, but it also means huge, large, heavy vehicles to go with those bigger engines, and those huge vehicles actually do require bigger engines and bigger outputs BECAUSE they got bigger. And we still play by those rules somewhat today.

    In Europe though, old cities exist, and when I mean old cities, I really do mean old. Quebec City is as old as it gets in North America, but by European standards, Quebec City is STILL in its infancy...

    With that being said,  there arent many wide and open spaces in Europe to accomodate EVERYONE to own our kind of luxury for cars.  And after 2 devastating wars on that continent, petrol rations and taxes on said petrol to rebuild have made their mark as to why in Europe, small cars and small engines continue to be.

    So...

    Yeah...I also agree with CCAP's statement.  In OUR market for OUR market.  Thankfully, I dont live in Europe, nor do I ever plan to live in Europe.  Europe, could kiss my Greek ass...   (great history Europe has, but the political hypocrisy is so much more unbearable there than here.  California and Hollyweird times a thousand to give you a clue)

    I do see myself visiting Greece often though... its not so bad there.  Really.  Plus Im...Greek.

     

     

     

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    Took a 6-hour round trip in the Kia Forte over the weekend.  Coming out of my truck and into the Kia, I was annoyed with the amount of road noise.  I am wondering if the UX suffers from road noise... which should be banished in all luxe makes.

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    169 hp in a Lexus, much less a car that is $41k.  They must be outside their minds!  
    This car should have a turbo 4 standard at that price, CVT’s are awful, it is awful in a Corolla’s segment, it is more awful here.  I think FWD only isn’t terrible for the segment because no one is going off road and in light snow, FWD is plenty fine.

     

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    I believe mercedes is selling a vehicle with only 188HP- that's the same level as lexus here. Sad.

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    4 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    As far as domestic competition, the Cadillac XT4 has a 2.0 4 with 237hp, and a 9-spd auto, and the Lincoln Corsair 2.0 is 250hp w/ an 8-spd auto.   Lexus definitely comes up short. 

    Parents recently bought an XT4 AWD for one of their rides (hers) and love it. It's super quiet and smooth with plenty of power from the 2.0T and the 9 speed is super smooth as well. They looked at the XT5 as well and being on the C1XX platform they said it was louder on road and the ride wasn't as smooth.

    Edited by USA-1

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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    In all fairness, that would be a different market and the rules been played with are waaaaay different than what rules we play with. 

    And  moreso to it than that our luxury rules are pretty much bigger is better, which not only lends itself to mean bigger engines and more power, but it also means huge, large, heavy vehicles to go with those bigger engines, and those huge vehicles actually do require bigger engines and bigger outputs BECAUSE they got bigger. And we still play by those rules somewhat today.

    In Europe though, old cities exist, and when I mean old cities, I really do mean old. Quebec City is as old as it gets in North America, but by European standards, Quebec City is STILL in its infancy...

    With that being said,  there arent many wide and open spaces in Europe to accomodate EVERYONE to own our kind of luxury for cars.  And after 2 devastating wars on that continent, petrol rations and taxes on said petrol to rebuild have made their mark as to why in Europe, small cars and small engines continue to be.

    So...

    Yeah...I also agree with CCAP's statement.  In OUR market for OUR market.  Thankfully, I dont live in Europe, nor do I ever plan to live in Europe.  Europe, could kiss my Greek ass...   (great history Europe has, but the political hypocrisy is so much more unbearable there than here.  California and Hollyweird times a thousand to give you a clue)

    I do see myself visiting Greece often though... its not so bad there.  Really.  Plus Im...Greek.

    Point taken, but many people that are buying this type of vehicle in the U.S. don't really care about performance. Its about the badge. See the number of GLAs and X1s that are sold to see that.

    Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing this downsizing trend happen in the U.S. more and more. I mean who would have through we would be seeing a turbo 2.0L four-cylinder sold in a truck. For this type of vehicle, 169 horsepower is plenty.

    Also on the bigger and better: I argue that its our regulations on safety and other items that are causing vehicles to get heavier, hence requiring more power.  Yes we want more features and technology, but I think all of the safety and advanced active safety stuff is adding more weight overall.

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    169hp and a CVT is ridiculous for the lux CUV segment. Toyota/Lexus, who are still resting on their laurels from the 90's and 00's must think their new car buyers are clueless and in some ways they're right, especially if they buy one of these $41K RAV4/UX "F Sport" crossovers. Same with MB in many ways. If the L or 3 pointed star badge is all they want for $40K+ then let them suffer. :D

    Edited by USA-1
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    15 minutes ago, William Maley said:

    Point taken, but many people that are buying this type of vehicle in the U.S. don't really care about performance. Its about the badge. See the number of GLAs and X1s that are sold to see that.

    Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing this downsizing trend happen in the U.S. more and more. I mean who would have through we would be seeing a turbo 2.0L four-cylinder sold in a truck. For this type of vehicle, 169 horsepower is plenty.

    Point(s) also taken on my part on your rebuttal. 

     

    15 minutes ago, William Maley said:

    Also on the bigger and better: I argue that its our regulations on safety and other items that are causing vehicles to get heavier, hence requiring more power.  Yes we want more features and technology, but I think all of the safety and advanced active safety stuff is adding more weight overall.

    True, but I was more talking about how we went from normal sized cars from the end of WW2 to the excess craze that happened from the mid-1950s that lasted all the way to the mid-1970s and each year in that time period, chrome got more utilized, wheelbases increased, cars got longer and wider, etc.  

    Granted, 1920s and 1930s luxury cars were huge too, but that is for another discussion another day. 

    Yes, todays cars are heavier, but they arent bigger or wider.  

    Ill secede some of my rant, its true that us too, in North America, we are heading to a more European and Asian trend of going smaller. Some reasoning is that of what I said about Europe.   But more of the polluting side of petrol cars rather than rationing it.  But...its the governmental push worldwide that is forcing us North Americans to go that route.  

    At least we still have our wide open spaces though...  :)     And our 2500 and 3500 heavy duty pick-up trucks as a last middle finger salute to all opposed of our excessive way of life!!!  :D

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    20 minutes ago, William Maley said:

    I mean who would have through we would be seeing a turbo 2.0L four-cylinder sold in a truck. For this type of vehicle, 169 horsepower is plenty.

    2.7T I4 in the Silverado? Yeah, that's ridiculous as well...CAFE regulations be damned. 

    Edited by USA-1
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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    I believe mercedes is selling a vehicle with only 188HP- that's the same level as lexus here. Sad.

    That Mercedes has over 200 lb-ft of torque and weighs less.  Although I think that A220 is sad, they should make the 221 hp turbo 4 in the CLA 250 standard.  Mercedes also makes a vehicle the size of the UX with 400 hp.

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    36 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

    2.7T I4 in the Silverado? Yeah, that's ridiculous as well...CAFE regulations be damned. 

    I would not be surprised if post 2025 the Silverado HD and Ford Super Duty have base engines that are 4-cylinder engines.  

    Back to the Lexus 33 mpg combined is nice, but 169 hp is not how to "Experience Amazing"

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    1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

    I would not be surprised if post 2025 the Silverado HD and Ford Super Duty have base engines that are 4-cylinder engines.  

    Back to the Lexus 33 mpg combined is nice, but 169 hp is not how to "Experience Amazing"

    Maybe if they have the bed full of battery packs as an EREV truck with the I4 as a backup generator on the Voltec next gen. setup or a full BEV like the 1500's on the way. V8 gas and diesel engines will be in the HD's for many years to come. 

    VIA Motors uses a Voltec setup in Silverado 1500 trucks and Express vans. I'd take the 800hp VIA XTRUX Silverado if it's still around. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1081727_via-motors-xtrux-electric-truck-2013-detroit-auto-show-live-photos

     

    33 mpg isn't all that good for that small of an engine with that low of output, shows that it has to work pretty hard much like the 2.7T in the Silverado 1500.

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    3 hours ago, William Maley said:

    ..I think all of the safety and advanced active safety stuff is adding more weight overall.

    Yeah; probably.
    A BMW 1-series has an overall length of 172" and a base curb weight of 3252.
    A Chevy Vega has an overall length of 170", and a base curb weight of 2190.

    Imagine what the BMW would weigh if it had as thick of sheet metal and as little of plastics & aluminum as the Vega did. It'd be 4000 lbs.

    Edited by balthazar

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    3 hours ago, USA-1 said:

    2.7T I4 in the Silverado? Yeah, that's ridiculous as well...CAFE regulations be damned. 

    I hate CAFE too, but Europe and China are leading the charge in raising fuel economy standards now.  The entire industry is forced to comply with foreign regs and higher fuel taxes, hence the likes of the UX200 and the X1 and the GLA and the XT4 etc.  SAD.

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      2.5L I4 GDI
      2.0L I4 GDI
      HP/Torque (lb.-ft.)
      150 / 139
      176 / 163
      143 / 129
      Electric
      Motor
      kW (HP)
      39 kW
      (51 HP)
      88 kW
      (118 HP)
      135 kW
      (181 HP)
      Voltage
      270V
      259V
      N/A
      Net Horsepower
      192 HP
      208 HP
      212 HP
      Fuel Economy
      (city/hwy./comb.)
      EPA estimates
      50/54/52 – Blue       
      45/51/47 – SEL, Limited
      51/53/52 – LE        
      44/47/46 – SE, XLE
      48/47/48 – Hybrid

       
      Solar Roof System
      Hyundai Sonata Hybrid’s solar-panel roof directly charges the 12-volt and hybrid batteries and outputs 205 watts of electricity. This system has several benefits:
      Mileage increases by about 2 miles per day Helps prevent battery discharge from infotainment or HVAC systems when the car is off Unique design cue Active Shift Control Technology
      ASC technology optimizes transmission efficiency by monitoring gear shifts 500 times per second and precisely adjusting the transmission rotation speed for faster shift times. ASC applies new control logic software to the Hybrid Control Unit (HCU), which aligns the electric motor with the rotational speeds of the engine and transmission to reduce gear shifts by 30%. The technology also delivers smoother gear changes and quicker shift times.
      “The development of the world’s first ASC technology is a remarkable innovation that incorporates precise motor control to an automatic transmission,” said KyoungJoon Chang, Vice President and Head of Powertrain Control System Group of Hyundai Motor Group. “It will not only save fuel but also provide a more fun driving experience for our customers.”
      Independently Developed Control Logic Software Applied to the Electric Motor
      Conventional hybrid vehicles do not have torque converters to improve fuel economy because torque converters lose energy while transferring power to the drive wheels. Although fuel efficient, such a system also requires longer shift times to ensure smoother gear changes.
      ASC technology allows the hybrid’s electric motor to also take control of gear shifts by applying new software logic to the Hybrid Control Unit (HCU) to mitigate issues with slower shift time. The HCU monitors the rotational speed of transmission with a sensor installed inside the electric motor at 500 times per second to synchronize the rotational speed with that of the gasoline engine.
      The synchronization reduces shift time by 30% from 500 ms to 350 ms. This improves not only the hybrid vehicles’ acceleration performance and fuel economy but also the durability of the transmission, by minimizing friction during gear shifts.
      Aerodynamics
      The Sonata Hybrid slips through air with 0.24 drag coefficient. The low drag coefficient is accomplished by managing airflow over and under the body. Up front, the Sonata Hybrid has active air flaps behind the grille, which close when less engine cooling is needed. A redesigned rear spoiler further improves airflow. To reduce drag under the body Hyundai engineers added several elements:
      Bumper lip Front- and rear-wheel deflectors Undercovers in the front and back of the engine bay Center floor undercover Rear undercover Digital Key
      Continuing to promote the latest advances in technology, the new Sonata Hybrid offers an optional smartphone-based Hyundai Digital Key. Digital Key uses a dedicated mobile app, Near Field Communication (NFC), and Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) technology to allow a new Sonata to be unlocked, started and driven without a physical key, via a smartphone. Sonata’s Digital Key also allows secure sharing of virtual keys with family and friends.  
      Sonata owners can tailor the different vehicle functions available to each shared virtual key, and can make the key available for only a defined amount of time. The vehicle owner can preset the duration of vehicle use or limit the use to only certain features when loaning the vehicle, and can also revoke keys remotely. For additional convenience, such as using a valet service or visiting a Hyundai dealer, Hyundai Digital Key also works with an NFC card, which will be provided with each vehicle. Each Sonata still comes with traditional keys. Hyundai Digital Key is compatible only with phones using the Android operating system. 
      Hyundai Digital Key utilizes NFC technology, which exhibits a high level of security. The NFC wireless data communication takes place only when the device and the reader are placed several centimeters apart.
      Optimized Hybrid Battery Placement
      By optimizing the placement of the high-voltage hybrid battery, Hyundai engineers were able to increase trunk capacity by 2.5 cubic feet, compared with the 2019 Sonata Hybrid. This placement also helps create best-in-class front headroom and legroom.
      Convenience Technology
      The 2020 Sonata Hybrid features a number of advanced comfort and convenience features including an electric parking brake, Hands-free Smart Trunk, Qi high-speed wireless smartphone charging pad with cooling fan, standard Apple CarPlay® and Android Auto®, Text-to-Speech via Bluetooth®, heated and ventilated front seats and split-folding rear seats.   
      The top-of-the-line audio and navigation display is a wide, high-definition, customizable, 10.25-inch touchscreen monitor with split screens and natural language, and cloud-based speech recognition powered by Blue Link, while the cluster supervision display is a full 12.3 inches. The navigation system includes a bird’s-eye view in navigation maps, and drivers get HD Radio traffic flow and incident data without ever paying for a subscription. Dual Bluetooth support is also available, so two devices can be paired at the same time—one for phone calls and one for streaming audio. The navigation system also comes with three years of Blue Link Multimedia/Map updates. Hyundai’s eight-inch display audio user interface, equipped with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, is standard on the 2020 Sonata Hybrid. An optional Bose® audio system also delivers an exceptional experience to customers.
      SmartSense Safety Technologies
      Sonata features Hyundai’s latest SmartSense advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS). A series of sensors and systems, often restricted to luxury cars, combine to potentially warn the driver and may take action in the event of a safety incident. Meanwhile, other ADAS systems can help the driver perform certain tasks using the car’s 3 radar sensors, 12 ultrasonic sensors and 5 cameras. These features include:
      Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist (standard) Blind Spot Collision-Avoidance Assist (standard) Rear Cross-Traffic Collision-Avoidance Assist (standard) Lane Keeping Assist (standard) Advanced Smart Cruise Control with Stop and Go (standard) Highway Driving Assist (optional)
    • By William Maley
      Today saw the Lexus UX 200 F-Sport being swapped for this 2020 Volvo S60 T5 Momentum. This base model comes very well equipped with a LED headlights, panoramic sunroof, 10-way power seats12.3-inch display for the instrument cluster, and a 9-inch infotainment system. But this particular vehicle is loaded with over $9,000 in options including metallic paint, 19-inch wheels, adaptive cruise control, Harman/Kardon audio system, and power trunk lid. This brings the price to $46,240 with destination - base being $36,050.
      Power comes from a turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder with 250 horsepower, paired with an eight-speed automatic transmission.
      I'll be updating this piece later in the day with some first drive impressions and I only briefly drove it around my work's parking lot to grab some pictures. In the meantime, start dropping off your questions.
      UPDATE: As promised (albeit slightly late), some more first impressions of the S60.
      The T5 engine is a surprisingly punchy engine, providing rapid power when driving on the freeway or exiting a turn. But the downside is noticeable turbo lag when leaving a stop - something I noted in my XC40 review. Volvo Sensus and my iPhone 7 Plus aren't seeming getting along at the moment. When I first plugged my phone in, the system recognized it and brought up the button to launch Apple CarPlay. But I couldn't bring up the CarPlay interface as the button did nothing. I had to unplug and plug the phone back in before it worked. One more issue concerning CarPlay. Some apps only bring up a blank screen when first opened. I would close them and relaunch to bring them to back to regular status. I can't explain whether this is due to me still running an older version of the OS or something with the car. To answer @regfootball comment on the space, this feels slightly larger than the outgoing S60. In the back, I have slightly more legroom than the previous models I have driven. Headroom is still tight, partly due to the optional panoramic sunroof. Volvo still hasn't solved getting in and out of the back as it still feels like a tight squeeze, even though the rear doors do have a wider opening.

    • By William Maley
      Today saw the Lexus UX 200 F-Sport being swapped for this 2020 Volvo S60 T5 Momentum. This base model comes very well equipped with a LED headlights, panoramic sunroof, 10-way power seats12.3-inch display for the instrument cluster, and a 9-inch infotainment system. But this particular vehicle is loaded with over $9,000 in options including metallic paint, 19-inch wheels, adaptive cruise control, Harman/Kardon audio system, and power trunk lid. This brings the price to $46,240 with destination - base being $36,050.
      Power comes from a turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder with 250 horsepower, paired with an eight-speed automatic transmission.
      I'll be updating this piece later in the day with some first drive impressions and I only briefly drove it around my work's parking lot to grab some pictures. In the meantime, start dropping off your questions.
      UPDATE: As promised (albeit slightly late), some more first impressions of the S60.
      The T5 engine is a surprisingly punchy engine, providing rapid power when driving on the freeway or exiting a turn. But the downside is noticeable turbo lag when leaving a stop - something I noted in my XC40 review. Volvo Sensus and my iPhone 7 Plus aren't seeming getting along at the moment. When I first plugged my phone in, the system recognized it and brought up the button to launch Apple CarPlay. But I couldn't bring up the CarPlay interface as the button did nothing. I had to unplug and plug the phone back in before it worked. One more issue concerning CarPlay. Some apps only bring up a blank screen when first opened. I would close them and relaunch to bring them to back to regular status. I can't explain whether this is due to me still running an older version of the OS or something with the car. To answer @regfootball comment on the space, this feels slightly larger than the outgoing S60. In the back, I have slightly more legroom than the previous models I have driven. Headroom is still tight, partly due to the optional panoramic sunroof. Volvo still hasn't solved getting in and out of the back as it still feels like a tight squeeze, even though the rear doors do have a wider opening.


      View full article
  • Posts

    • Same with me, the startups and small companies we all just pitched in to help move, but here at my current Dell Job, they reorganized the whole building to get teams back together and we were told we could not move any of our stuff once packed up as that was the outside movers job and had to wait for them to come in and move the whole building over the weekend which included a Friday. I am thinking in this regards it was Dell wanting to minimize potential injury on those not in shape to life. At Brocade, I was visiting the San Jose HQ and was doing work in the datacenter and we needed to get stuff re-racked, I did it all and then realized we had no power above us in the Star Line system where we were moved too. I grabbed a wrench and moved the star line box's and then got written up by the local facilities folks as in California you have to use a unionized certified electrician to move these 90 degree twist boxes and plug in the power cords from the rack. Lucky for me, I got the write up removed as the did not know I was from Washington State and did not know about the california requirements since in the data center here we just do all the work ourselves and no requirement to have over paid electricians plug in a server. That is the stupidity that Unions have brought in this modern 21st century day to slowing down productivity.
    • Yes, Yes they are, just look at how well the NON-Union Auto plants are doing in this country. Yes companies have learned, does not mean we take our eye off of them, but we do not have kids working, no benefits and all the other crap that happened. Unions had their place but in a higher educated society, unions are not needed and that in itself proves why industries like the High Tech industry has not been unionized. Many others do not need it either. Unions feed off the lesser educated work force taking their hard earned money. We are already protected and covered by modern laws that give us the same rights the Unions want to take your money for saying they will secure.
    • Where I was was at a Big Fortune 500 corporation that probably had their facilities maintenance and moving outsourced to a unionized shop.  Odd because it was in Colorado which never struck me as a particular union-ey place.  The next two places I worked after that were tiny---one a startup company and one a consulting firm, under 10 people each, and we moved offices a couple of times at each place and I helped w/ the moves, once hauled a load of servers, computers and monitors in my Jeep a couple miles between offices.. 
    • That's just annoying.  We've moved a handful of times at my current job and we have a moving team(the building is slowly being remodeled floor by floor) but I've never been told not to take things myself.  I haven't heard of Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, or BMW plants having issues. OHSA is still a thing.
    • If modern unions are so bad, are the alternatives a lot better?  Especially in certain industries (steel, automotive). . . . . Now, public sector unions I would argue have serious issues that need to be addressed.  Now why do we have public sector unions again?
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