RJB

How to buy American

62 posts in this topic

regfootball    234

yeah, but its a cultural thing. those who work the least but make the most have a very self defeatist attitude about US stuff. Some of it is warranted, a lot not. Most of that sentiment is based on the past and the grass is grenner mentality. A product of our own people is not good enough. I am a better person than all you rednecks, so i need to show it by buying things imported.

legitimately though, a big problem is simply that domestics haven't filled as many product niches or built as mnay desirable products. and GM and Ford always seem to lag in features and technology. Although, GM is starting to snap out of this.

Your wife is loyal, pretty, fun to be around, cooks a mean dinner, etc.....but that sexy redhead neighbor chick is so much sexier.

our US and business culture today is one of personal reward first. not much about growing communities, or building families, or strengthening our country. 'i work hard, so i will get what i deserve at everyone else's expense'. 'they screw me, so i will screw them'. No one wants to contribute to the success of others in this country; we are so competitive and so needing to come out on top ourselves, that part of that recipe has to include tearing everyone else down who is a threat. "in order for me to be successful and keep my bitchen job, i have to make sure that those people below me lose their jobs or never ascend to a good position, this is how I stay on top so i can buy nice sh1t for myself. nice imported sh1t." subsequently its ok to fuel foreign economies because 'they are so third world, let them do the cheap manual labor for me, as long as they never threaten my position and they keep those high paid union jerks here from ascending to any sort of position better than me". Many folks would rather see jobs go overseas because they do not see it as a threat to their own personal standing. they still think of people in china and india and stuff is inferior so its ok to USE them to make their sh1t, and keep our own citizens down here, so they can be better than them.

Edited by regfootball

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FAPTurbo    1,078

Your wife is loyal, pretty, fun to be around, cooks a mean dinner, etc.....but that sexy redhead neighbor chick is so much sexier.

228031[/snapback]

:lol:

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JT64    0

Your wife is loyal, pretty, fun to be around, cooks a mean dinner, etc.....but that sexy redhead neighbor chick is so much sexier.

:cheering::ohyeah::cheering:

I'll take both. mmmmmm.... it's so good in the middle.

My brothers, everyone take two. We can all have a good life.

Edited by JT64

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DBeaSSt    0

Well said regfootball.

I keep that site bookmarked and do try to use it first when shopping for things.

It's a nice feeling to know your purchases are supporting more than just the retailer where it was purchased.

I also have one of these in the back window of my car. :)

Posted Image

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regfootball    234

i don't necessarily believe we all have to buy American at all costs....what i do think is people need to evaluate each purchase a little more completely and at least consider the American makes. test drive everything and weigh all the pros and cons of each model and try to give some weight to the notion of supporting your country more. Not everyone can or should buy a domestic car, but in stead of going to the toyota dealer with consumer reports in hand and not testing anything else, i think there needs to be a much better balance there. And the other part to this is GM and Ford etc need to continuously get more competitive and make fewer excuses for some of their crap products.

Edited by regfootball

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LTB51    0

That article reminds me of that misleading type of advertisement where the manufacturer takes their vehicle and compares it so a series of others. "Better fuel economy than x", "More leg room than y", "More HP than z", etc. Most of the points are probably true, but how hard is it to pick out the weak points of your competitors and show that you are better than that? If you really think about it, the claim being made is often nothing more than the manufacturer's vehicle is slightly better in one area than the competitor who is the worst in that area.

This article took it a step further by being able to pick out the strengths of several companies to compare. Plus he is so obviously misleading on the points that I can verify that I have to doubt everything else he writes that I cannot verify.

Writing things like:

"General Motors also reported a 3.9% rise in August vehicle sales despite high gas prices and a supposedly slowing economy. And even though Toyota reported record sales that month, they couldn’t match the non-record setting sales volume of Ford. GM’s sales rose 17% in October from the same month in 2005 and Ford sales rose 8% in the same period."

…is completely disingenuous. Firstly, he is comparing total numbers and not the daily selling rate. There was one extra day of sales in Aug 2006. Using the DSR GM was unchanged. Further, he is comparing GM's Aug 2006 sales to GM's disastrous Aug 2005 sales after the employee pricing for everyone sales ended. Compared to GM's Aug 2004 sales, Aug 2006 was down 16% based on the DSR. October 2006 was off 6% from 2004 based on the DSR.

Aug 2004:

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet...n=6&docid=17843

Aug 2005:

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet...n=2&docid=28297

Plus I'm a little annoyed that people are still quoting JD Powers results. The recent changes to their survey results show that it was radically inaccurate. And it still can't be trusted because they didn't really resolve the issues that caused it to be inaccurate prior to the changes. If anything they added more. Any person or article that uses JD Powers numbers should be considered poorly researched or dishonest.

Really, if we want GM to have any credibility we have stop clowns like this. He does GM/Ford/etc. no favors by writing misleading garbage like this. And we have to stop being fooled by this crap.

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Satty    338

My "American" car is based on a Japanese platform and was built in Mexico. The people who designed it were American, but they've since been laid off.

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Dsuupr    12

That article reminds me of that misleading type of advertisement where the manufacturer takes their vehicle and compares it so a series of others. "Better fuel economy than x", "More leg room than y", "More HP than z", etc.  Most of the points are probably true, but how hard is it to pick out the weak points of your competitors and show that you are better than that?  If you really think about it, the claim being made is often nothing more than the manufacturer's vehicle is slightly better in one area than the competitor who is the worst in that area.

You mean, like the media like to do to GM & Ford.

I understand the point their making, even if they have to use specific items to make their point. GM & Ford do make some of the best quality, best gas mileage vehicles in this country. And like he is trying to point out, it's time we recognize that.

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thegriffon    5

:cheering::ohyeah:  :cheering:

I'll take both.  mmmmmm....  it's so good in the middle.

My brothers, everyone take two.  We can all have a good life.

228062[/snapback]

Unless you like sharing there aren't enough to go around.

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FAPTurbo    1,078

Unless you like sharing there aren't enough to go around.

228555[/snapback]

I guess if reg moved to Utah...

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AxelTheRed    0

I think that every American should consider buying domestics, but I don't necessarily belive that every car in America should be domestic. Not just because its of the global economy we've got now, but also because, think about it, the roads would be pretty boring if we only saw American cars driving on them.

And even as much as I'm an avid supporter of buying American cars, if I had a Rolls-Royce or an old Volkswagon minibus, they'd definitely be in my rotation, and I'm sure I'm not the only person on this website who loves American cars above all, but still drools over a few imports.

Edited by AxelTheRed

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The O.C.    2

A very good read about how Americans are still hesitant to buy American cars. Comments are appreciated!

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/bamw/bamw-061129-auto.shtml

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It's an interesting read.....but basically the author points to the quality and fuel economy topics and avoids one of the main reasons (perhaps THE main reason) that Americans are not buying as many domestic automobiles as in the past.....

High quality or good fuel economy aside....with a few exceptions, the domestic auto manufacturers are simply not building cars that consumers over here WANT to buy.....be it from a design/style standpoint, features standpoint (pushrod V6s, GM?), or desirability standpoint (ever compare the ride, handling, driving, and interior quality of an Accord versus a Malibu?)

People out here don't buy a domestic car because they don't feel it won't last, or guzzles gas.....the bigger problem is that they don't buy a domestic car because they simply wouldn't be SEEN in one....or simply do not find them as well engineered, designed, or styled.

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The O.C.    2

You mean, like the media like to do to GM & Ford. 

GM & Ford do make some of the best quality, best gas mileage vehicles in this country.  And like he is trying to point out, it's time we recognize that.

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......but if no one WANTS to buy them.....?

Guys the issue CONTINUES to be ignored by GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Wagoner and his counterparts need to stop making excuses and whining that they "don't get fair treatment in the media about their accomplishments..." and they need to focus on the REAL problem...

WHY do many consumers simply not DESIRE a domestic automobile?

It's a complex question with no easy answer......but until the Big 3 tackle the REAL problem, no amount of whining over the media will do them ANY good.

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Flybrian    0

Ever compare the ride, handling, power, quality, or price of the last generation of Camry and current Corolla to - well - anything else in its class?

Explain then why they remain perennial top-sellers despite the existance of newer and better models from the competition.

My point is, there's no one answer.

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The O.C.    2

Ever compare the ride, handling, power, quality, or price of the last generation of Camry and current Corolla to - well - anything else in its class?

Explain then why they remain perennial top-sellers despite the existance of newer and better models from the competition.

My point is, there's no one answer.

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You are just trying to find an excuse to Toyota-bash......

They may not be the most exciting vehicles, but the old Camry was still more competent than a comparable Malibu or the old Impala and the current Corolla still has a much-higher level of interior fit-and-finish and material quality than a Cobalt-owner could ever dream of.

Sure Fly....it's poplular to try to bash the Camry and Corolla.....but they are WAY-competent cars....and that's why people keep buying them. (re...I said "competent" not exciting.)

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Flybrian    0

and the current Corolla still has a much-higher level of interior fit-and-finish and material quality than a Cobalt-owner could ever dream of.

230885[/snapback]

I will never see eye-to-eye on this based on three different Corollas I've driven.

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Mr.Krinkle    0

It's an interesting read.....but basically the author points to the quality and fuel economy topics and avoids one of the main reasons (perhaps THE main reason) that Americans are not buying as many domestic automobiles as in the past.....

High quality or good fuel economy aside....with a few exceptions, the domestic auto manufacturers are simply not building cars that consumers over here WANT to buy.....be it from a design/style standpoint, features standpoint (pushrod V6s, GM?), or desirability standpoint (ever compare the ride, handling, driving, and interior quality of an Accord versus a Malibu?)

People out here don't buy a domestic car because they don't feel it won't last, or guzzles gas.....the bigger problem is that they don't buy a domestic car because they simply wouldn't be SEEN in one....or simply do not find them as well engineered, designed, or styled.

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oc, I recommend a higher spf for you.

The differences are not any where near as dramatic as you suggest. In fact, most people acknowledge the discrepancies...but they are plenty capable.

The way you go on I would think the cobalt came with a crank or standard with a horse pulling it. Im just so glad you crossed PUSHRODS off YOUR $h! list.

The focus of this article is about perception. HINT HINT...and so basically it wont matter what is done because like you say, people (in Cali, at least) dont want to be seen in one. and that means no matter what.

Toyotas have their own stereotypes, at least around here--and they aint all rosy. And lately...whewww. talk about problems.

Edited by Mr.Krinkle

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RJB    0

oc, I recommend a higher spf for you.

  The differences are not any where near as dramatic as you suggest.  In fact, most people acknowledge the discrepancies...but they are plenty capable. 

The way you go on I would think the cobalt came with a crank or standard with a horse pulling it.  Im just so glad you crossed PUSHRODS off YOUR $h! list.

The focus of this  article is about  perception.  HINT HINT...and so basically it wont matter what is done because like you say, people (in Cali, at least) dont want to be seen in one.  and that means no matter what.

Toyotas have their own stereotypes, at least around here--and they aint all rosy.  And lately...whewww.  talk about problems.

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I am sad to O.C. has a point ot an extent(just an extent). I emailed this to some people I know out west and they openly do not like American vehicles. It all comes down to the current styles the domestics are coming out with. The Impala for instance which was a highlight of the article still has a blue collar nascar stigma attached to it which makes alot of people (the ones I talked to) run away as well as the Monte Carlo. The current vehicles coming out from GM and Ford they do not like, were as they are a little more in favor of Chryslers designs. I think that trend will change for the better in favor of GM and Ford in the near future.

But alot of it comes from this point, the people I talked to love the more expensive cars from GM, out of their price range, but they said GM or Ford for that matter do not have anything at all that is attractive to them in their price range. Aveos and Cobalts don't cut it and neither does the Impala or the current Malibu(which will change for the better) the G6 is mediocre. Hmmm...oh well.

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The O.C.    2

oc, I recommend a higher spf for you.

The way you go on I would think the cobalt came with a crank or standard with a horse pulling it. 

230916[/snapback]

OK....here's all my Cobalt bitches.......since you brought it up......

The good? An attractive exterior design.......a great engine.......

That's about it.

Seriously sub-standard interior fit-and-finish and materials, cheap feeling switchgear....specifically HVAC controls (they thankfully integrated the GM-corporate radio.) Average seats. Dull driving dynamics (except SS and SS supercharged.) Basically the base car feels rental-grade.

For example, a base Focus still feels like a driver's car. It's rental-grade also, but doesn't feel like it.

I guess it all boils down to the cheap feel that the car imparts to me.....much of it coming from the interior.

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The O.C.    2

I am sad to O.C. has a point ot an extent(just an extent). I emailed this to some people I know out west and they openly do not like American vehicles. It all comes down to the current styles the domestics are coming out with. The Impala for instance which was a highlight of the article still has a blue collar nascar stigma attached to it which makes alot of people (the ones I talked to) run away as well as the Monte Carlo. The current vehicles coming out from GM and Ford they do not like, were as they are a little more in favor of Chryslers designs. I think that trend will change for the better in favor of GM and Ford in the near future.

But alot of it comes from this point, the people I talked to love the more expensive cars from GM, out of their price range, but they said GM or Ford for that matter do not have anything at all that is attractive to them in their price range. Aveos and Cobalts don't cut it and neither does the Impala or the current Malibu(which will change for the better) the G6 is mediocre. Hmmm...oh well.

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"SAD to say?" Eff YOU...! (J/K)

Seriously though.....your post hit the nail on the head.

My whole mantra with GM has been......when they can execute an Aveo, Cobalt, Malibu, and Impala with the same high level of competence that they have the Corvette, CTS, or even the GMT-900s (even considering their third-row discrepancies, etc.) then they will have turned the corner.

Cobalt is close......IF it only had the Astra/Vectra level of interior quality......that would be a MAJOR step. Impala will never get there as long as it's still derived from a decade's-old architecture. New Malibu? I have REALLY high hopes....and like what i see so far. Just ditch the pushrod V6s and the 4-speeds.

Look at the new Lambas....! WONDERFUL.......and they'll show the competition some major aches and pains.....

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CARBIZ    1

But I guess it is what is important to YOU, isn't it? The Cobalt (base) will outhandle the Corolla, has a lot more standard features (automatic headlights, power trunk release, split rear seat, hydraulic trunk lifts for more available trunks space, etc.), but most of the pundits whine and complain about switch gear and hard plastics.

News flash: those customers who ignore the whining at CR and MT don't give a flying F%$k about plastics. In the presence of a decent test drive and a knowledgeable salesperson, they appreciate the things that matter. I can understand the bitching and whining about the Cavalier, which did have atrocious plastics and fit, but other than the cheaper fabrics (which stain easily, I might add) on the Cobalts, there is nothing wrong with the interior. The LTs and higher even have a nice interior.

The real problem here is that since the Cavalier's welcome was way-overstayed, the import humpers won't give GM a break now. GM was drunk on the truck bubble of the late '90s, okay? That we all agree on. They didn't give a $h! about the car market, period. NOw they have seen the light and are building quite decent, even great cars, but everyone remembers the Cavalier.

Sigh. I've had customers driving 8 year old Cavaliers, who readily admit is has been problem free, but are now looking at the Civic/Corolla because they are "better." I wonder where they could have learned that from?

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ellives    0

But I guess it is what is important to YOU, isn't it? The Cobalt (base) will outhandle the Corolla, has a lot more standard features (automatic headlights, power trunk release, split rear seat, hydraulic trunk lifts for more available trunks space, etc.), but most of the pundits whine and complain about switch gear and hard plastics.

News flash: those customers who ignore the whining at CR and MT don't give a flying F%$k about plastics. In the presence of a decent test drive and a knowledgeable salesperson, they appreciate the things that matter. I can understand the bitching and whining about the Cavalier, which did have atrocious plastics and fit, but other than the cheaper fabrics (which stain easily, I might add) on the Cobalts, there is nothing wrong with the interior. The LTs and higher even have a nice interior.

The real problem here is that since the Cavalier's welcome was way-overstayed, the import humpers won't give GM a break now. GM was drunk on the truck bubble of the late '90s, okay? That we all agree on. They didn't give a $h! about the car market, period. NOw they have seen the light and are building quite decent, even great cars, but everyone remembers the Cavalier.

Sigh. I've had customers driving 8 year old Cavaliers, who readily admit is has been problem free, but are now looking at the Civic/Corolla because they are "better." I wonder where they could have learned that from?

It's all just herd mentality. My son and I were just talking about this perception problem today. He was commenting that one of his friends doesn't know WHAT brands are GM brands and didn't know Lexus is part of Toyota. This is the same friend that told him how great Toyotas are. Why would he say this? Ignorance is bliss I guess. (He's also the same friend that bitches about his parents Honda with a failed transmission.)

I REALLY have an urge to print a banner for the back of my car that says something like " Nah - GM can't build quality cars... This 1997 Cadillac you're following has 130,000 miles on it. Wanna race?"

Anybody have any other good ideas for a trunk banner I can use?

Edited by ellives

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